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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Now another guest appearance by another New York City mayoral hopeful. We're inviting all the major candidates running in the primaries for mayor of New York and governor of New Jersey. Today it's New York City Comptroller Brad Lander hoping to move up that one last peg since comptroller is already a citywide elected office. Up one more peg and become mayor of the city after overseeing the city's finances as the comptroller does and being a leader of the City Council's progressive caucus as a council member from Brooklyn before that. Comptroller Lander, thanks for coming on again. Welcome back to WNYC.

Brad Lander: Good morning, Brian. Thank you.

Brian Lehrer: Let's start with some Brad Lander campaign news. I see your campaign is releasing today what you call a public integrity plan. What's new here?

Brad Lander: Thank you. Yes, obviously what's new here is we need public integrity back at City Hall. Mayor Adams has abandoned it in so many ways. Obviously, some of them he's under indictment for, but some of them are as simple as not coming and talking to reporters. Prior mayors came on, regularly, the Brian Lehrer show to talk to you. I'm going to have a more transparent administration. Look forward to being back here.

One of the big structural ideas is to make the Conflicts of Interest Board genuinely independent. I don't think most New Yorkers know this, but a majority of the Conflicts of Interest Board are appointed by the mayor and that means they can't do as good an independent job. I'm proposing to change that. It's a detailed plan to make sure we've got integrity, the best people in office. We get rid of these no-bid contracts to cronies, transparency and real accountability in city government.

Brian Lehrer: I see on Gothamist that you would also require top administration officials to disclose meetings with lobbyists, a practice that Adams stopped early in his first year of office. What changed under Mayor Adams?

Brad Lander: Prior mayors did this. They disclosed meeting with lobbyists by the mayor and by deputy mayors and made their schedules public. I've been doing that in the comptroller's office. I'm actually the first comptroller to step up and do it, and I'll restore it. New Yorkers have a right to know who their mayor and deputy mayors are meeting with, whether they're lobbyists, and that they're focused on the problems New Yorkers have, confronting the housing crisis, making our streets and subways safer, not taking meetings with lobbyists to give no-bid contracts to cronies.

Brian Lehrer: It's not even no meetings with lobbyists. People have a right to lobby the government. It's disclose those meetings. Disclose those meetings publicly.

Brad Lander: 100%.

Brian Lehrer: Do you have a theory as to why or an accusation as to why Adam suspended those disclosures?

Brad Lander: You can see it in where the contracts have gone. When you have a police commissioner who's running a protection racket with his twin brother, when your Department of Citywide Administrative Services is looking at city leasing as an opportunity to help a friend make money, you might want to not disclose your meetings because people could see what's going on. People have the right to see what's going on. Of course, it just helps everyone actually make sure they're acting with integrity when they know they're going to have to disclose those meetings. Again, we've been doing this in the comptroller's office. It's not hard, and it's a fundamental bedrock of good government.

Brian Lehrer: As Gothamist describes it, you are also proposing to direct the emboldened. I guess you would embolden the Conflicts of Interest Board to rule on claims of sexual harassment, a plan that Gothamist says takes aim at both the mayor, who is facing a civil sexual assault lawsuit, and former Governor Andrew Cuomo, who resigned amid sexual misconduct allegations. Both Adams and Cuomo have denied any wrongdoing. That part as summarized on Gothamist. We know Cuomo might throw his hat into the ring for mayor, too. What would be new there?

Brad Lander: First, the Conflicts of Interest Board is who would look at it, not the City Hall or executive itself. Then there's a second proposal to focus on whether taxpayer money should be used to defend accused officials. New York City taxpayers are paying to defend Tim Pearson in his sexual assault accusations. New York State taxpayers have coughed up $28 million for Andrew Cuomo's defense. Even aside from whether you think it should or shouldn't be defended with taxpayer dollars, everyone I've talked to has said $28 million is outrageous.

His lawyers have subpoenaed the gynecological records and the therapy records of his accusers. Taxpayers don't want to be on the hook for that. I would make it an independent call whether administration officials should have taxpayer dollars to defend them. Of course, if they were acting in good faith and doing their jobs, that's one thing. For sexual harassment assaults, to be able to use them to weaponize against your accusers to the tune of $28 million, that is not good use of taxpayer money. It's not accountability either.

Brian Lehrer: Do you have a position on this ethics bill that City Council is apparently considering now? I think Councilmember Lincoln Restler is the sponsor that would prevent top mayoral aides from lobbying the government for two years after leaving office. It doesn't say anything about top members of council. Are you on board with that bill?

Brad Lander: It passed the council yesterday. Yes, I do support it. It was in part targeted at Frank Carone, who I noticed was with the mayor when he went to Mar-a-Lago to kowtow to Donald Trump. I support that legislation.

Brian Lehrer: Should it apply to, let's say the speaker of the City Council or the finance chair of the council or somebody else in those top positions, those kinds of positions after their term limited out?

Brad Lander: At a minimum, it should apply to whether they can lobby the City Council where they've got then an existing set of relationships that they built. That's the goal here. The reason it should apply broadly for mayoral appointees is if you were at City Hall, you're still going to have connections at the Department of Transportation or the Police Department. I think within the council it should at least apply to not lobbying the council for two years after you've served there.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, anybody have a candidate question for Comptroller Brad Lander as he runs in the Democratic primary for mayor of New York City? 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692, call or text. Not, of course, only on his public integrity plan, but all the other big issues of the city also in play. We're going to get to public safety. We're going to get to housing. Bring up whatever you want. 212-433-9692. Let's talk, Comptroller Lander, about Mayor Adams number one issue, public safety. I think I have a clip lined up ready to go. Here he is on one piece of that at his latest news conference on Tuesday.

Mayor Eric Adams: Last night was the first night of our new surge of NYPD personnel throughout the subway system, with a six-month effort that will ensure approximately 300 uniformed officers are deployed on nearly 150 overnight trains. You often have heard me talk about it, as a transit police officer, a different system. Go look at those pictures back there and what the system looked like. I rode the trains from 8 at night to 6 in the morning, mandatory overtime every night. But we knew we had to get the system under control.

Brian Lehrer: Do you support the new deployment of police officers on every subway train overnight?

Brad Lander: Mayor Adams has talked a lot about making the subway safer, but here we are, four years into his administration, and they're not safer. We're seeing all these incidents. New Yorkers want to see NYPD officers in the subway, but I think they also know that under the Adams administration, folks with mental illness are falling through the cracks over and over again. They might move from subway to street to hospital to jail, but then they're right back again because there's no management from City Hall, because Department of Correction doesn't even tell the Department of Mental Health's care teams when someone is coming out.

There's really what I think of as a housing last approach. We might keep sweeping people around, but we never connect them. The Adams administration fails to connect them to supportive housing with services. We audited their homeless sweeps program, and they swept 2,308 people. Only three got connected to stable housing. All the rest are still out there. I've put forward a plan to end street homelessness for people with serious mental illness who are cycling through our subway, streets, hospitals, and jails. It's about 2,000 people.

We've laid out a clear, ready-on-day-one plan that involves better City Hall management, a housing-first approach that connects people to stable housing with services, and that includes secure detention when it's necessary. I'm good with more officers in the subways overnight. I think New Yorkers want to see them. I think New Yorkers also know we won't solve this problem unless we actually connect people to housing with the services that they need. We're not doing it now.

Brian Lehrer: You actually support that deployment. You're just saying do that and these other things you just mentioned to serve street homeless people. When you say end street homelessness, and you did mention involuntary hospitalization when necessary, that's another part of the mayor and the governor's plan. Do you also support that in the way that they're proposing it?

Brad Lander: We do need some additional flexibility for involuntary hospitalization when people are a danger to themselves or others. I support legislation in Albany by Assemblymember Micah Lasher and State Senator Hoylman-Sigal to provide additional flexibility. Again, if you don't connect people to housing with services, they'll stay in the hospital for a few weeks or a month, then when they come out, if they go right back to the street, right back to the subway, they're not going to be able to stay on their medication or their care plan.

This is what's missing from the mayor's plan. Instead of that housing last approach, he's been taking-- they're using this housing first model in Salt Lake City, in Denver and Houston 70 to 90% of the time. People who are homeless, people with mental illness, are able to stay stably housed and they're not on the subway or on the street. That's both a safer city, and of course, a much more humane one as well.

Brian Lehrer: You said at the beginning of your answer, the first answer on this, that Adams keeps talking about public safety on the subways, but the subways are not safer. I thought the "progressive" position on this is frequently that, yes, the subways are actually very safe. There have been a few horrible high profile incidents, especially the random kind that really frighten everybody. That to throw police at a problem that's largely a perception problem, because these incidents are so extremely rare, is just propping up the law enforcement establishment and exaggerating the problem and reinforcing the exaggerated perception that people have of unsafe subways. You seem to depart from that.

Brad Lander: A couple of things here. Crime across the board, violent crime, in particular, is up about 30% still from pre pandemic levels. It has come down from the peaks it hit in 2021, and that's a good thing, but it is still above pre pandemic levels, and people want it back down. You're right that on this issue with people who are homeless with mental illness, you see one of those horrible incidents, and then you're a little more nervous the next time you get on the subway and see somebody who's not well. You're not sure whether that person might be a danger to you or to themselves.

Where you're right, though, and where I am a strong supporter of this model that says let's get those people housing so they're not on the subways as a danger to themselves or others. That's the approach that Eric Adams has failed to take and will not be solved just by putting more police officers on the train. You might push people to go to a hospital, but if they come right back out-- We just looked at this in this report called Safer For All, which I hope people will look at. It's on the comptroller's website.

When people are coming out of H and H hospitals, when they're coming out of Rikers, even if they're eligible for supportive housing, so often they're just right back to the street. The solution for a safer city, and that's why we call the plan Safer For All is to connect people to housing. That's just a practical approach. It's one that will work best both for those individuals to stay on their care plan and for the subways, both to be and to feel safer.

Brian Lehrer: Let's take a few phone calls. Listeners, if you're just joining us, it's New York City Comptroller Brad Lander here as a candidate in the Democratic primary for mayor. Dana in Long Island City, you're on WNYC. Hi, Dana.

Dana: Hello, Mr. Lander. I'm very, very curious about your attitude toward the unions in the city. I'm a delegate to the UFT retirees and we won a victory, a low level victory because they're still in court against Michael Mulgrew and the City of New York trying to put us into a Medicare Advantage plan, which is very much a disadvantage for retirees who have health problems. Could you give me your attitude about the Medicare Advantage plan and if you will help the people who are retired, D.C. 37 citywide retirees with this problem?

Brad Lander: Thank you, Dana. I strongly support you. I can tell you more than my attitude. I can tell you the action I took because when Eric Adams sent that contract to me, the Medicare Advantage contract with Aetna, I rejected it. The comptroller has to sign off on contracts, and generally we review them and they're appropriate, although there have been some real corrupt ones that we have rejected.

I rejected the Medicare Advantage contract because the city did not have the authority to enter into it as the judge recently found, as you just noted. I stand with you and other retirees who educated our kids, kept our streets safe, and we need to provide the health care that we have committed to you. When I am mayor, I will not push you or other retirees on Medicare Advantage. I'll make sure you have the health care that you need and deserve.

Brian Lehrer: We have a few people calling in to criticize you on a position you have on-- I believe it's a housing bill before the City Council. I'm going to let Eli in Brooklyn be the spokesperson for those several callers. Eli, you're on WNYC. Hello.

Eli: Yes, sir. Thank you for taking my call. The problem I have with Mr. Lander's policy on 1107, be it willfully or inadvertently, his NC article 1107 will only benefit the hotel industry that's seeking to monopolize the tourism industry with zero competition.

Brian Lehrer: Is this a bill, because I'm unfamiliar with it, to be more relaxed on regulating Airbnbs in New York City. Is that that, Eli?

Brad Lander: Yes.

Eli: Yes, sir. After one year of Local Law 18, there's zero conclusive evidence that Airbnb and short term rental, especially as it relates to one, two family homes with living homeowners, were responsible for New York City's housing tenancy woes.

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Brian Lehrer: Comptroller Lander.

Brad Lander: Thanks for your call, Eli. I have an idea that I hope you'll like. I don't want to see more homes turned into Airbnbs, and that's what Intro 1107 would do. I don't believe it's a good idea, given the housing crisis we have to take more space in homes and apartments and turn them into hotels. I do oppose Intro 1107, but I have proposed an idea that I hope will help Eli and others like him, homeowners who may have an extra room or some space in their home and would like to be able to make some money on it. Maybe they're empty nesters or seniors. I announced it yesterday. It's called Home Share NYC, and it's a little like Airbnb in that it's a matching app service, but it matches you to people who need housing.

Think about a CUNY student. 55% of our CUNY students are housing insecure. They might really benefit from that room and would, of course, pay for it on a monthly basis. There are home-sharing services around the country. One I love is called Nesterly that people could take a look at. As mayor, I would partner with one or more apps along with organizations that provide services to homeowners and seniors and tenants to make thousands of those matches. We estimate there are 10,000 rooms in the city that could be rented like this. Many of them may have been Airbnbs before that law was passed a year ago, and we could get them back on the market as housing.

Brian Lehrer: To be clear, you'd have to be living in your home with an extra room and the people would come and live with you?

Brad Lander: That's right, and for at least a month. That's what the law changed in 2022. You can't do a short term rental of less than a month, but this would help you find tenants who want more than a month, again, like that CUNY student. You'd still get income in your home, but you'd be helping meet the housing needs of New Yorkers rather than turning homes into hotels. I think of it as Airbnb for tenants, not tourists.

Brian Lehrer: Eli, you want to react to that? Eli, you like it? He said maybe you'd like this?

Eli: No, not really. Because basically what it does is that it puts a gun to our head by not giving us the option of to actually have short term rental in our homes. A lot of people actually have short term rentals in their homes, or people have family members visiting. It basically chop their opportunity and options. In a democracy-- [crosstalk].

Brad Lander: You're allowed to have family members visit, Eli. The law definitely doesn't prevent that.

Eli: No, but it actually takes away the option of having short term rentals because the persons that it really benefits the most is the hotel industry because they're seeking to monopolize the tourism industry. Once you do that, you're putting that burden on us. I'm an artist, and in 2018, I had a woman living in my home. I was struggling financially and it took five and a half months to get rid of her. The city's housing laws don't support us.

Brian Lehrer: Eli, I'm going to leave it there. Thank you very much. Of course, a lot of people might like to charge their relatives for coming and staying too long. I think that's another show. To wrap it up for today-- I'll say that we've touched on a number of major issues. Obviously, there are many more, and we think we're going to have the time between now and the primary in late June to have each of the hopefuls on a number of times.

Just tell us this on the way out the door. There are a number of candidates in the primary running on a progressive track to, let's say, the left of Mayor Adams, Zohran Mamdani, Zellnor Myrie, Jessica Ramos. Maybe I'm leaving people out. Why are you the best of that group to run the city for the next 4 years, in 30 seconds?

Brad Lander: I've got a proven track record of experienced leadership that delivers real results. I did it in the City Council, I've done it in the comptroller's office where we manage $285 billion. We've had great results with the pension fund, saved New Yorkers hundreds of millions of dollars through our audits, provided unprecedented transparency. If people want someone that'll make sure we stand up to Donald Trump and fight for the values of this city, but also live up to our values by ending street homelessness, getting more affordable housing, making our city safer and more livable, I've got the track record to do it at City Hall.

Brian Lehrer: Comptroller Lander, thank you for joining us today.

Brad Lander: Thank you.

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