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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Now, we turn again to the hotly contested Democratic congressional primary in parts of the northern Bronx, including Wakefield and Co-op City, and much of southern Westchester. Last week, we had the challenger, the Westchester County Executive George Latimer, and now the incumbent, two-term Congressman Jamaal Bowman. As we mentioned last week, the Israel-Hamas war has been a central issue in the race, so we will talk about Congressman Bowman's views on that in some detail, as we did with Executive Latimer. We will also get to domestic issues like housing, other inequality, inflation and other things to compare their views on.

Congressman, thanks so much for doing this. Welcome back to WNYC.

Congressman Jamaal Bowman: Of course, Brian. Thank you for having me. Good to be with you.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, as we did with the Latimer segment last week, we'll take a few phone calls or texts for the candidate. We took some very critical ones for Latimer, and like last week, don't make them only on the Middle East, okay? 212-433-WNYC. 212-433-9692. Call or text.

Congressman, I'll follow the same format we had for your opponent. The first stretch will be Middle East related, then we'll turn to domestic issues.

With Executive Latimer, we established that he declines to support President Biden in asking Israel to take a step back in the war; as Biden put it, step back. He declined to urge Israel to publicly accept the Biden ceasefire plan, declined to support Senator Schumer in calling for new elections there, and declined to criticize Prime Minister Netanyahu in any way by name. When I asked him if there was any reason to for him, he said he won't criticize any individual in Israeli politics by name. He is different from President Biden and Senator Schumer in those ways, and the voters will make their judgments about those positions with respect to him.

For you, I have a different set of questions, and I'll start here. My first Mideast question is this. You said in the News 12 debate that Hamas has to go. I think you said it in those words, Hamas has to go, but you're calling for a permanent ceasefire, not a temporary one. Permanent ceasefire is a Hamas condition for a ceasefire, precisely so they can continue as a military fighting Israel. How do you explain what could be seen as a contradiction, saying Hamas has to go, but you're for a permanent ceasefire, which would guarantee that they stay and have continued power?

Congressman Jamaal Bowman: When we call for a permanent ceasefire, that includes a release of the hostages, that includes humanitarian aid getting into Gaza as quickly as possible, and that includes all parties coming to the table to build and create a pathway to peace which hopefully, finally gets us to a two-state solution, where Palestinians can have freedom and self-determination, and where Israelis can have freedom and self-determination. Hamas, as currently constructed as a terrorist organization, cannot be a part of that conversation politically, and in terms of strategically and surgically militarily, that has worked better in our Middle East conflicts than the collective punishment we are seeing right now.

A pathway to peace has to be diplomatic, has to be political, has to include the Palestinian Authority, the PLO, and other Arab nations who want to be a part of the solution, as well as the US, as well as the UK and obviously, as well as Israel. As we know, this issue is incredibly layered and complex, but the powers that be who are involved, like the US, Israel and informally, a power that be, the Palestinian Authority, need to be at the table toward a real pathway to peace.

Brian Lehrer: Right. That's a big-picture answer, but you're out there calling for ceasefire now, permanent ceasefire, so I'm going to ask my question again. Doesn't a permanent ceasefire ensure that Hamas remains in power?

Congressman Jamaal Bowman: No, I don't think so because I don't think there is a military solution to Hamas, especially the military solution and pathway that we are currently on. I think what we're doing at best is getting rid of everyone in Hamas now, which is not happening, but at worst with every new child or baby or innocent civilian killed, we have given birth to the next iteration of Hamas or extremism in the region. No, I do not think a permanent ceasefire keeps Hamas in power. I think a permanent ceasefire, combined with the other things I mentioned towards a pathway to peace, is the best way to deal with the issue of extremism that continues to rear its ugly head based on our violent responses.

Brian Lehrer: Is the permanent ceasefire you support conditional on release of all the hostages?

Congressman Jamaal Bowman: It's all part of it. Permanent ceasefire includes release of all the hostages, humanitarian aid into Gaza, and coming to the table to really honestly have a discussion and then move policy and resources toward a two-state solution. When I went to Israel with J Street a couple of years ago, I had a chance to go into Israel, Tel Aviv and many areas, but I also had a chance to go into the West Bank. I went to Ramallah, met with Palestinian leaders there; went to Hebron, had a chance to meet with the organization Breaking the Silence and both Israeli and Palestinian scholars on this issue.

We talked about the challenges as it relates to a two-state solution because of settlement expansion into the West Bank. I believe the number is now 700,000 over the last several years, and as we know, J Street is really pushing for a two-state solution and to do something about the settler violence there. When I talk about a pathway to peace, it has to include a Palestinian state. I think politically and diplomatically, that's how we end the extremism that's in the region.

Brian Lehrer: When you mentioned J Street, and for people who don't know, J Street is a- I don't want to mischaracterize it, a progressive pro-Israel lobby. They very much contrast themselves with AIPAC, the more right-wing pro-Israel lobby that's supporting your opponent with a lot of money, but I read the other day that even J Street has withdrawn its support of you because they see you as too anti-Israel. Respond to J Street, assuming I saw that correctly.

Congressman Jamaal Bowman: I don't know if their reason for doing that was because I was anti-Israel, because I am not anti-Israel. I support Israel's right to exist as long as it is following international law. It's been a difficult time since October 7th for everyone, but particularly for the people in the Jewish community, within the Jewish community, within the diversity of the Jewish community. J Street, unfortunately, was under a lot of pressure post-October 7th to make their decision to unendorse me. It's unfortunate that they did that, but thank God, I still have a lot of support within the Jewish community and with Jewish organizations like Bend the Arc, Americans for Peace Now, Jewish Voices for Peace, IfNotNow, Jews for Racial and Economic Justice and others. The support is still there. Unfortunately, J Street made the decision that they made.

Brian Lehrer: You use the word genocide. That's a polarizing word in this context, as you know, because supporters of Israel say it's rhetoric being used where it doesn't apply to try to make Israel look as evil as possible. Many people would say, yes, by all means criticize Israel for being willing to kill so many civilians and cause famine conditions in pursuit of destroying Hamas after October 7th. Genocide means trying to wipe out the existence of a people, which is not what the goal is, and exactly what the Nazis tried to do to the Jews, making use of the word even more inappropriate. For people who feel alienated by your use of the word genocide while trying to represent them in Congress, how would you respond to that?

Congressman Jamaal Bowman: On the one hand, I understand and accept that. On the other hand, the International Court of Justice, through its investigation, called what was happening in Gaza a plausible genocide, and I believe that was a couple of months ago. I will let the legal system going forward continue to legislate what's happening there and what's a genocide or not in terms of the legal definition of the term, but I know what myself and many people are watching on a daily basis. I think we're up to 37,000 dead, mostly women and children, another maybe 70-something thousand injured, many children amputees, et cetera, et cetera.

It's not just the violence. It was the rhetoric that was coming from Benjamin Netanyahu at the very beginning when he evoked, "Remember what Amalek did to you," at the very beginning. Also, President Herzog, when he makes a comment like, "There are no innocent civilians in Gaza." Or when one of my Republican colleagues in Congress stood on the House floor and said, and I'm going to paraphrase here, to call civilians innocent in Gaza is like calling Nazis innocent. When you combine the rhetoric both here and in Israel with the actions, I believe that's why the ICJ made that particular ruling.

Brian Lehrer: You don't have to follow an ICJ ruling. You are an independent politician in America who can use that word, which is perceived as a slur and a vilification, or not. They did not rule that Israel is culpable of genocide, just that there are plausible reasons for them to investigate.

Congressman Jamaal Bowman: Correct, and the investigation has been ongoing and has continued, and I'm thankful for that. As I mentioned, we're watching what's happening every day. I also think it's important to make a distinction here. Israel is a state. Like other states, like the US, like Saudi Arabia, like China, criticism of Israel is criticism of a state. It is not criticism of a people. It's important to make that distinction. When I or others criticize the state of Israel, we are not criticizing the Jewish people. We are not saying and I'm definitely not saying Jewish people are committing a genocide. It's the state of Israel, but more specifically, it's Benjamin Netanyahu.

I think to hear that my opponent would not condemn him, to hear that my opponent does not support new elections like Senator Schumer, even like Joe Biden, it shows that he's not in alignment with the Democratic Party or the majority of the people in the district, which condemn Netanyahu and do not support Benjamin Netanyahu.

Brian Lehrer: Right. Well, the dilemma for people in the district; some people in the district might be that they see him as too far to the right of Biden, and they see you as too far to the left. You've criticized Executive Latimer for taking so much monetary support from AIPAC. Listener writes this text message that came in a few minutes ago, from a Congressional 16 voter, they say, "Please ask Bowman to explain his funding sources. Is it true that the majority of his donations come from outside the district?"

Congressman Jamaal Bowman: I have to take a second look at that. Yes, that's true, I believe, but that's a different conversation, right? A large percentage of my opponent's money comes from outside the district as well, and the money that comes from inside the district are mostly from a certain demographic of people; the people who's funding his campaign, and the people who he has governed for over his seven years as county executive, which are the wealthiest people. I govern for everyone, but I make sure to pay special attention to those who have been most marginalized and left behind; people who aren't accustomed to or do not have the resources to donate to political campaigns. That's a major difference.

My opponent is a recipient of and supporter of big money in politics and governs for big money. I govern for everyone with a special attention to the working class and marginalized because we will not have a healthy democracy if we continue to leave people behind. That's why we put forward certain pieces of legislation, whether it's the Ending Corporate Greed Act, or the Babies Over Billionaires Act, or co-sponsoring a reparations resolution for $14 trillion, or universal healthcare, which my opponent does not support. My opponent doesn't even have an answer when asked about Medicaid and preserving that.

Those are some major contrasts-- that is, excuse me, the major contrast between the two of us. One of us, myself, has dedicated his life, my life to children, families, working-class people, education; while my opponent, his governance has been for the people of Rye and the people of Scarsdale and other wealthy areas, unfortunately.

Brian Lehrer: One more on the Middle East, then we're going to take a break and turn to domestic issues. On the AIPAC question, you've criticized Executive Latimer for taking so much money from AIPAC, which again is the pro-Israel lobby group spending a lot to support his campaign and specifically to defeat you, and who you say targets disproportionately candidates of color. Part of Latimer's defense in taking AIPAC money and not to be tagged as a racist for doing so is to say he is hardly alone in the New York House delegation, leader Hakeem Jeffries, Greg Meeks, Ritchie Torres, Adriano Espaillat, Grace Meng, all receiving AIPAC support. Does the criticisms of Latimer, or of AIPAC in this context that I've heard you make, stick?

Congressman Jamaal Bowman: Oh, absolutely. I think AIPAC and special interests are too influential in Congress and too influential within our political system. These special interests who have a lot of resources, and let me add fossil fuel to that conversation, let me add big tech to that conversation, we can add pharmaceutical companies, the military-industrial complex, because of Citizens United and this idea that corporations are people and money is free speech, we have now begun to transition from a democracy to an oligarchy. That's why we have a lunatic, convicted, multiple times indicted person like Donald Trump in line to possibly get to White House again because of big money in politics. This is not just about AIPAC. It's about big money in politics. We got to get big money the heck out of politics. [crosstalk] It's destroying our democracy.

Brian Lehrer: That's a broad critique on the particular of AIPAC going against people of color when they support all those other people of color in the New York delegation or [crosstalk]--

Congressman Jamaal Bowman: Well, Brian, just because you have a few Black friends doesn't mean you are an anti-racist organization. 86% of their money targets candidates of color. That's a fact. Their support of Benjamin Netanyahu in this war against Gaza, I think illustrates that as well. Not only that. When you look at many of the PACs that they are working with in this race, and the way in which they run the race in terms of darkening my skin color on mailers to people in my district in terms of writing articles or planting articles about me that has led to death threats, which people are saying they hope I be lynched as part of those death threats, to people on my opponent's page calling me a thug and my opponent not saying anything about it or condemning it, it's all part of an ecosystem that at best is incredibly biased, at worst is outright racist.

I'll say this part as well. Because as a nation, we haven't done the work of really dealing with racism in a real way, something, by the way, I've spent my entire adult life fighting against in education; because we haven't done the work, we continue to nurture a racial and economic caste system that is harmful to the American people, harmful to our democracy. AIPACs, how they fund their campaigns-- excuse me, not how they fund. Who they spend their money on targeting, and how they have run this particular campaign with mailers and other things goes under the umbrella of racism.

Brian Lehrer: Last listener question on this, then we'll turn the page and do domestic issues for the rest of the segment. Listener writes, "I have heard Representative Bowman deny the October 7th sexual violence in speeches. Why?" Asks the listener.

Congressman Jamaal Bowman: Immediately when the UN provided additional evidence, I voted to condemn the sexual violence. I apologize for my comments. Now, we are continuing to do the work to fight sexual violence and domestic violence in all its forms. We've been doing that since we've gotten into Congress with local organizations here in the district. As soon as I got the additional information from the UN, we condemned the sexual violence, we voted to condemn it, and we're continuing to do the work.

I think that's representative of the kind of person I am and the kind of representative I have tried to be. I am not going to be perfect. I'm going to make mistakes. I'm going to say things that harm people even though I don't mean to. When I do, I'm going to take accountability for it. I'm going to own it. I'm going to take accountability for it because I want to learn and grow and be the best representative I can be. That's who my mother raised me to be, that's who I was as an educator, and that's who I am now.

Brian Lehrer: After the break, as we did with Mr. Latimer, we will turn the page and compare the two of you on domestic issues. Listeners, if you're just joining us, my guest is Congressman Jamaal Bowman, running to keep his seat in the northern Bronx and southern Westchester district in which he's being challenged by Westchester County Executive George Latimer. Early voting is underway. Don't forget you can vote now in that or any other primary taking place in New York. Primary day itself is next Tuesday. We continue after this.

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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Now, we continue with Congressman Jamaal Bowman, running to keep a seat in the northern Bronx and southern Westchester district in which he is being challenged in a Democratic primary by Westchester County Executive George Latimer.

You are a member of the DSA. I'm not going to ask you, unless you want to talk about it, about the complexity with your relationship with them around the Israel question. In any case, they're back in your good graces. You're back in their good graces. They've endorsed you in this race. Would you explain to the voters what DSA membership means to you domestically? You've called yourself a socialist. Different voters in the district may feel differently about that word. What is a socialist for you, and why should voters want to be represented by someone who so identifies?

Congressman Jamaal Bowman: Have I called myself a socialist? I don't remember actually doing that [crosstalk]--

Brian Lehrer: Well, I read in an article that in 2020, you were asked-- I could look up the reference, if you say you haven't, but I read it in an article that you said your views seem to line up that way, but you're a DSA member.

Congressman Jamaal Bowman: My views definitely line up there. No, usually when I'm asked a question like, "How do you refer to yourself?" My answer is always, "I'm a Black man in America." That's how I refer to myself. Black man in America, husband, father of three, living in Yonkers, born and raised in New York City, lifelong educator. That's first and foremost how I refer to myself.

The DSA, first of all, they're a decentralized organization, and it's important to use that word, which means it's incredibly democratic, and everyone has a voice that can be elevated and it's important in the work that they do. Like all democracies, there are some voices in there that I strongly disagree with on certain issues, and then there are others that I strongly agree with. Overall, in terms of what we're fighting for, there's complete alignment.

We're fighting for universal healthcare. We're fighting for fully funding our public schools. We're fighting for housing as a human right. We're fighting for free access to public transportation. We're fighting to take care of our seniors. Universal childcare, universal pre-K, and paid leave. The bottom line is we're fighting to make sure we have a healthy, equitable democracy that works for everyone. Right now, we do not have that. We have seniors struggling to pay their rent and healthcare and transportation in Co-op City and Mount Vernon and other areas because of underemployment, because of a broken retirement system, and because the cost of housing is too darn high.

We're just saying, listen, we are the-- we pound our chest with great pride, we are the wealthiest nation in the history of the world, but that wealth is concentrated in the hands of the 0.001% of our nation. We need for the wealthy and large corporations to contribute their fair share so that we can provide the basic needs to the people of our country and our district so that we can have a healthier society and democracy that works for everyone.

That is all. That is what we're fighting for. That is what most Americans are fighting for. That is why my opponent's alignment with the wealthy elite, my opponent's being against President Biden on raising taxes for the wealthy, and my opponent not supporting universal healthcare and not even having thought about it, while putting out tens of millions of dollars in lies about my record, is actually deplorable and completely disgusting.

Brian Lehrer: A little more to go with our candidate interview with Congressman Jamaal Bowman, defending his seat in a Democratic primary against Westchester County Executive George Latimer in New York Congressional District 16 in the northern Bronx and southern Westchester. We're going to take a Westchester call in a second on one of your votes, but just to follow up on what you were saying.

Your website identifies specific positions, such as you were mentioning just now, like Medicare for all, national rent control is another one, universal childcare. When I mentioned those to Mr. Latimer, he called them aspirational and said, "I think sometimes we wind up with simplistic solutions. It sounds good, it gets you votes, but there's no way to implement it and there's no way to know what the cost of implementation is." You obviously find that amusing. Why is that?

Congressman Jamaal Bowman: [chuckles] Because it shows how he's completely out of touch with the district and how he's completely unfit for the job. When we saw Sputnik flying around the globe, did we say it was unrealistic to put a man on the moon? When we created the semiconductor and the microchip, did we say it was unrealistic to start the internet and the technological revolution? When there was enslaved Africans in this country and morally, people began to realize, what the hell are we doing? This is morally reprehensible and inhumane. We need an abolitionist movement. Did they say that was unrealistic?

The fact that he is saying these particular initiatives are unrealistic shows that he's unfit to serve this district, he's unfit to be in Congress, and he is completely aligned with the powerful elite special interests like AIPAC and others who want to keep this caste system just as it is; wealthy, mostly white men at the top, everybody else beneath them, scratching and clawing and killing themselves just to survive.

One last thing. It's really important. AIPAC is on pace to spend more in this primary race than anyone, any PAC has ever spent in any primary race in history. They're spending almost five times more money against me, or five times more money is coming in this race as pro-Latimer versus the money that's coming in as pro-Bowman. This is wealthy special interests and mostly right-wing Republicans meddling in a Democratic primary to get an outspoken Black man who was simply fighting for justice out of office.

Brian Lehrer: One specific follow-up, though, on Latimer's reaction to a national rent control proposal, which you support. He says, "While it sounds very good," and again, I'm quoting him from the show, "it would involve having to know just how much money is going to be involved to be able to execute that because you're going to have any number of other people that are going to say, while you're keeping rents down, how are you going to make the capital improvements in the buildings that need to be improved?" Can you answer those practical concerns to argue something like national rent control isn't just a slogan that has no path to actually creating affordable housing or maintaining affordable housing in reality?

Congressman Jamaal Bowman: The majority of the American people support a national rent control piece of legislation. The majority of the American people. The majority of the people in this district are rent-burdened or severely rent-burdened. Again, this goes in alignment to his policies that have been historically oppressive and even racist. He was against what was happening with desegregation in Yonkers, going way back to the '90s. Even as county executive, he has not done enough to respond to the housing crisis, desegregation, affordable housing crisis here in our district, as per the group that filed the federal lawsuit against Westchester County and won.

This is not just his ideology. This is policies that go way back to the '90s. This aligns, again, directly to the people he's serving. The question is not only-- especially at the federal level, it's not only about money. It's about, do we have the resources? If we have the resources, then we should invest those resources. Because research shows when we invest in housing, it improves healthcare outcomes, it improves economic outcomes and it improves education outcomes, and it actually makes our democracy and economy stronger. I wish my opponent knew that research, but again, he is completely out of touch and unfit for this job as a tool who's in the pocket of special interests.

Brian Lehrer: He would say he's got other ways to build and maintain affordable homes, but listeners will have to get that part from Latimer or go back to our previous interview with Executive Latimer last week. Jenny in Westchester, you're on WNYC with Congressman Bowman. Hello, Jenny.

Jenny: Hi, Brian. Hi, Congressman. Thanks so much for taking my call. I am a resident and a voter in District 16. During this crazy campaign, every day my mailbox has been filled with flyers, most of them against Congressman Bowman, and there are several themes to these flyers. One of the main themes that gets repeated over and over again is that the Congressman voted against the infrastructure bill and is against President Biden. I think I understand the infrastructure bill, but I would love to hear the Congressman explain why did you vote the way you voted on the infrastructure bill, and where do you stand vis-a-vis your support or not of President Biden.

Congressman Jamaal Bowman: This is an excellent question. Thank you so much for the question. The infrastructure bill was only a part of President Biden's full agenda. It wasn't his entire agenda. His entire agenda included Build Back Better, which made historic investments in affordable housing, historic investments in our seniors, in climate, historic investments in childcare, pre-K, and paid leave, many of which would've been the first time in history. The infrastructure bill passed, and we support the infrastructure bill. We did not kill the bill. That's very important. It did not hurt New Yorkers as the ads are telling you.

The vote was to hold the line and hold the Senate accountable as we continue to negotiate Build Back Better. Now, Senator Manchin, as we know, killed Build Back Better. Unfortunately, my opponent seems more aligned to Senator Manchin than he is to President Biden. We used the vote to negotiate and hold the Senate accountable. We didn't get Build Back Better, but we did get the Inflation Reduction Act, which now caps insulin costs at $35 a month, senior drug costs at $2,000 a year, and begins to make the historic investments in climate that we need. That vote held the line and held accountable the Senate to make sure we continue to move forward with President Biden's agenda.

The second part of your question, and thank you so much for asking it. We have been working with President Biden since we've gotten into office. We've worked with him to ban ghost guns. We've worked with him to create the Renters Bill of Rights. We've worked with him, and I'm actually a co-author of the CHIPS and Science Act. We wrote multiple amendments to that bill to make sure that bill passed and had worker cooperatives and community wealth building as part of that bill.

Even better examples. Not only did Governor Hochul reach out to us to help us get President Biden to the district to help her campaign during the final week of her election, which we dare did, and I shared the stage with President Biden here in Yonkers, but we rode Air Force One and Marine One together from JFK Airport-- we rode Marine One from JFK airport to Westchester Community College, where he shared parts of his speech with me to give him feedback on.

We have directly worked with President Biden, but unfortunately, silly season in campaigns, you got the most money spent historically in this race, people are going to bombard you and try to brainwash you into believing something that is absolutely not true. Everything I just said in my answer, it's out there on record. You could find it.

Brian Lehrer: On the infrastructure bill, another listener texts this question, I'm going to paraphrase it, that you tout projects in the district that get funding from the infrastructure bill that you voted against [crosstalk]--

Congressman Jamaal Bowman: Not true, Brian. No, it's not true. That's another misconception. Members of Congress have annual opportunities to bring in community project funding, and so every year we ask the community to submit grant proposals to us, and then we're allowed to pick the top 15 that are ultimately funded in the district. We've done that every year since we've gotten in. The infrastructure projects that we are supporting, like one in Tuckahoe with Mayor Andino, one in Ardsley with Mayor Kaboolian, one in Larchmont-Mamaroneck with Mayor Jane, one in Rye Brook for sewage infrastructure, that money comes from community project funding, and that's a part of appropriations. It's different, it's outside of the Bipartisan Infrastructure bill. I'm not taking credit-- [crosstalk] Yes?

Brian Lehrer: The implication is if all the Democrats had taken the pure position that you did, we wouldn't have the infrastructure bill or the projects that flow from that. Does that reflect well on you?

Congressman Jamaal Bowman: Well, I don't want to say we wouldn't have the projects that flow from that. Not the ones that I just mentioned, though. Those were community project funding bills. What I would say to that, what you just said, is the Democratic Party is a big tent, Brian. We have different people, different opinions. It's not about everybody doing the same thing all the time, especially as we consider the issue of equity and as we consider the issue of certain communities continuing to be left behind.

Another thing about the Bipartisan Infrastructure bill, 91% of the economic and financial benefits and jobs of that bill go to white men. 91%. There's no equity in the bill. What about people of color? What about women? We need equity in our policies. The equity part of the President's full agenda was in Build Back Better, and it came through in parts of the Inflation Reduction Act.

Brian Lehrer: Last question. Similar to my last question to Mr. Latimer. It's about temperament. The knock on him that I brought up with him is that he's not passionate about anything. He doesn't really believe in much of anything strongly. All his answers are about working in a pragmatic way with other members of Congress. The opposite knock on you would be that you're too ideological and not practical enough to get things done as exemplified for some by the infrastructure bill. With respect, we just got a text a few minutes ago from a listener hearing you saying, "A hothead who thinks apologies fix his immediate overreaction."

Congressman Jamaal Bowman: I'm sorry, can you repeat that, please? A hothead who, what?

Brian Lehrer: Yes. I think this writer is referring to you saying the thing about doubting sex [crosstalk]--

Congressman Jamaal Bowman: No, but what did he say exactly? Can you read what he [crosstalk]--

Brian Lehrer: He said, "A hothead who thinks apologies fix his immediate overreaction." I think he was talking about October 7th and-

Congressman Jamaal Bowman: Oh, okay. Okay, yes.

Brian Lehrer: -sexual violence, but people will bring up other things with you in that respect too. [crosstalk] Respond and then say anything you want in closing.

Congressman Jamaal Bowman: Yes. Thank you for having me, first of all. Thank you for that question from that person. It's really interesting. I am a passionate person. I want everyone in the world to be passionate about something, especially when it's rooted in justice. I'm passionate about making sure every child on our planet has access to clean water and healthy foods and healthcare and a safe place to live. I'm passionate about making sure we end the scourge of gun violence in our country. I'm passionate to make sure our seniors have dental and optical and hearing as part of a healthcare package. I'm passionate about that.

All of this unrealistic stuff; why whenever we're talking about working-class people, poor people, and Black and brown people, the policies are so unrealistic, but when we're talking about $600 billion in tax cuts for corporations, it's not unrealistic. When we're talking about the trillions in Trump tax cuts that my opponent supports, it's not unrealistic.

Look at the history of America. It's a horrible history in some ways when you look at- in many ways, when you look at what happened to the Indigenous, and what happened to Africans who were enslaved. We have grown leaps and bounds across time, ending slavery, ending Jim Crow, ending discrimination against women, even though we still have to fight more because the far-right Supreme Court took away Roe v. Wade; ending LGBTQ discrimination; me being the first Black man in history to hold this congressional seat, coming up during the crack cocaine era, first of my family to go to college, open a school, earn a doctorate.

If we don't have vision and aspiration, we don't have a country. We want America to be the best version of itself. In order to do that, we need everyone, all Americans at the table to be a part of the conversation, and we need to be aspirational for them. The working class, the poor, people of color and those who feel powerless within our system, let's be aspirational for them. Let's have a vision for them, Brian, and then we can become the country we are capable of being.

Brian Lehrer: Congressman Jamaal Bowman, thank you for sitting for this segment. Thank you very much.

Congressman Jamaal Bowman: Thank you.

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