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Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning, everyone. Today we're interviewing the Democratic and Republican candidates in an important swing congressional district, New York's 17th. The incumbent is Republican Mike Lawler, who we'll talk to now, the Democrat is former congressman Mondaire Jones who will be on later this hour, as they compete in the district that geographically is on either side of the Tappan Zee, Mario Cuomo Bridge, Rockland county on one side, Tarrytown and points north to Putnam and part of Dutchess County on the other.

Mike Lawler is a freshman elected in 2022 over Democrat Sean Patrick Maloney. When Republicans flipped a handful of districts in the New York City suburbs, a friendly court ordered redistricting helped, but issues mattered too just like all over Long Island and the Hudson Valley. The New York suburbs were one of the only areas, remember of the country to experience a meaningful Republican wave that had been predicted to be much more widespread in Joe Biden's midterm congressional election. Now the district has been redrawn again, which might help the Democrat Jones this time, but it's still expected to be a very close race and it might be crucial to decide in control of Congress.

There's also a weird third-party factor in this race if you haven't heard about this yet. The Working Families Party has fielded its own candidate who beat Mondaire Jones in that party's primary. This is not the third-party challenge from the left that you would normally think of when the Working Party's Family goes out on its own. The candidate is widely believed to be a Republican plant just trying to take votes away from Mondaire Jones.

In fact, the Working Families Party itself officially believes that and is urging voters not to vote for their candidate. How weird is that? With that as some political and historical context, Congressman Mike Lawler joins us first. Congressman, thanks for doing this. Welcome back to WNYC.

Congressman Mike Lawler: Thanks for having me, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: Why do you think you won in 2022? Why in general do you think the New York City suburbs and exurbs have a lot of competitive congressional districts this year?

Congressman Mike Lawler: I think I won two years ago for a few major reasons. Number one, I showed up everywhere. I was doing six, seven, eight events a day and I outworked my opponent. Number two, the issues, the affordability crisis, public safety. Democrats control everything in New York and at the time, they controlled everything in Washington. Voters want balance, and I think I certainly have presented that in this Congress. I've been rated the fourth most bipartisan member of Congress. I've passed roughly a dozen bills, five of which have been signed into law.

I've done over 50 town halls and mobile office hours throughout the district, visiting every single community multiple times. You juxtapose that to my opponent who shut down his office two months before his term expired, ran away to New York City. He said he never felt more at home than he did when he lived in Brooklyn and left people in the lurch here. I feel very good with three weeks to go where we stand in this race and I think people recognize the work that we've put in over the last 21 months.

Brian Lehrer: You tout your own bipartisanship and you were ranked the fourth most bipartisan House member by an annual Georgetown University tracker, which counts the number of bills, member or sponsor, or co-sponsor with members from the other party. In this polarized era, is there one that you would like to single out as actually bridging a political divide, not just voting for uncontroversial bipartisan things like funding for your districts?

Congressman Mike Lawler: Of course. Look, I've led the effort to pass the Undetectable Firearms Act, a bill that was signed into law by President Reagan 35 years ago and one that we were able to extend by seven years because I led the effort working with Madeleine Dean, a Democrat from Pennsylvania. Obviously, getting bipartisan support and consensus on common sense gun safety measures isn't always so easy. I'm proud of the work that I've done. I've worked with a progressive Democrat, Ritchie Torres, to pass the special envoy for the Abraham Accords.

I've worked with Congressman Josh Gottheimer to pass the Antisemitism Awareness act, which passed 320 to 91 through the House. That was not an easy lift, especially when you have people saying that it's banning the Bible and you have others engaged in ranked antisemitism against Jews here in America. I'm proud of the work that I've been able to do forging a bipartisan path. I am a member of the Problem Solvers Caucus.

My opponent was a member of the Progressive Caucus and was rated the third most progressive member of Congress. He rated 381st in terms of bipartisanship. I think there's a very stark difference between how I approached my time in Congress over the last 21 months and how he approached his brief two-year step.

Brian Lehrer: He's getting flak from the left for moving toward the center. We'll talk to him about that later in the show, but are you voting for Donald Trump?

Congressman Mike Lawler: I am.

Brian Lehrer: If you're the moderate that you say you are in a way that actually matters to the future of the country, why not be a Liz Cheney Republican, some people would ask and say that you may disagree with Kamala Harris on many issues, but Donald Trump is a unique threat to democracy, a wannabe autocrat and you just can't support him.

Congressman Mike Lawler: Look, this is a choice between two candidates. Elections are binary choices. Kamala Harris supports defunding the police, she supports cashless bail, she supports Medicare for all, she supports the Green New Deal. She supported open borders, she wanted to decriminalize border crossings, she wants to expand the Supreme Court, and she wants to end the filibuster. You know who else agrees with all those positions? Mondaire Jones. I'm running against him because he is a radical extremist. For the very reason of policy, that is my choice.

At the end of the day, this is a choice for the American people to make. I will respect the outcome of the election results and certify the election results regardless of who wins. As I said many times, when I disagree with Donald Trump, I will say it. I disagreed strongly about the 2020 elections. Joe Biden won and what happened on January 6th was wrong. That's why I signed a bipartisan letter with 31 members, stating very clearly that we will certify the election results regardless of who wins in November.

Brian Lehrer: For the record, Harris and Jones would say they don't hold some of those positions that you just said they hold, some of them they used to hold, we'll deal with that with Mondaire Jones. On your support for Donald Trump and it just being about those issues that you just cited, an article in The Atlantic today is headlined, "Donald Trump is on a Fascist Romp." It says many Republicans are enabling it.

The article says on Sunday morning, Trump outdid himself in an interview on Fox News by saying that "the enemy within," Americans he described as radical left lunatics, including California representative Adam Schiff, who he mentioned by name, are more dangerous than Russia or China and could be "very easily handled" by the National Guard or the US military." Do you think Adam Schiff is more dangerous than Russia and China? Are you comfortable with your party's nominee campaigning that way? It sounds fascist to that Atlantic writer.

Congressman Mike Lawler: Respectfully, what we've heard over the last few years is that Republicans are fascists, that Donald Trump is a threat to democracy. We've heard that over and over and over from members of the press and from leading Democrats. We've heard from Democrats saying that [inaudible 00:08:49]

Brian Lehrer: Whoops, did we lose Congressman Lawler's line? Congressman, you're there? Did you go on mute or something? Congressman Lawler? All right. I think our engineer is talking to him off the air. Sorry about this, folks. Coming up later in the show, these interviews are going to be separated by a half hour because we couldn't connect their schedules back to back. Mondaire Jones is going to be on later in the hour, but we're going to do a segment in between them, our Climate Story of the Week as we connect back to Congressman Lawler.

Our climate story this week is going to be about the politics of hurricanes, so get ready to talk about that. Then later in the show, we're going to talk to the creators of a new podcast series about ADHD, which is being increasingly diagnosed among adults in this country. We, of course, will take your calls and your stories of dealing with ADHD yourself. We'll talk about some of the medical remedies and controversies, and the fact that it's such a more common diagnosis than it used to be. I think we have Congressman Lawler back now. Congressman, you're there?

Congressman Mike Lawler: I'm here. Sorry about that. I don't know what happened there, but what I was saying was ultimately the threats facing the country are from our adversaries, Russia, China, Iran. They are not our allies they are our enemies. What they are doing around the globe working in a coordinated fashion, is seeking to undermine and destabilize the United States, Israel, Europe, and the free world. What we are seeing, obviously right now, the world is a tinderbox. Frankly, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris have failed in the responsibilities to keep the world safe. We are seeing one flare up after the next.

Frankly, their approach to Iran has been a major cause of concern. When you lift sanctions, when you try to renegotiate the Iran nuclear deal as they did and you allow for the illicit oil trade between China and Iran, which has resulted in $100 billion increase in the sale of Iranian petroleum, 90% of which is purchased by China, this is what is funding Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthis and other terror networks in the region and funding the terrorist attacks against Israel. We need to have strong American leadership on the global stage. We need to take on the unholy alliance that has formed between Russia, China, and Iran.

Europe needs to stop purchasing Russian gas. We need to block the sale of Iranian petroleum and we need to get India, for instance, to stop purchasing military equipment from Russia. There's a lot going on on the global stage that has occurred frankly, under the last three and a half years of Joe Biden and Kamala Harris, that is a far greater threat than anything else we are facing domestically.

Brian Lehrer: The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee released a statement critical of you that said at a recent fundraiser for Donald Trump where he stood behind a Trump Vance podium where you did, Lawler called democratic voters part of a "party that hates this country." They linked to an article on Lohud, the Journal News website about a speech you gave at a Trump rally this summer at which you said, "This election is a choice, a choice between a candidate for president who loves this country, who cares about this country, who believes in this country versus a party that hates this country." That sounds very enemies less Trumpy. Is that the real Mike Lawler?

Congressman Mike Lawler: No, Brian. Once again taking things out of context, what I was talking about specifically was that week, the week prior, we had the pro-Hamas agitators outside the capital during the Prime Minister Netanyahu's joint session of Congress address, tearing down the US flag and burning it and raising a pro-Palestinian flag and raising Hamas flag in Washington, DC. Specifically in the speech, that was the context in which I was talking about. Obviously, Democrats and Republicans do not hate this country, but there is a choice here.

The choice is what we have seen in these college campuses protest, what we've seen within elements of the Democratic Party this year is a growing anti-Israel bigotry. That is unfortunate. Even my Democratic colleagues in Washington acknowledge this, that this has been a major challenge for them throughout the course of this election season. My opponent, by the way, basically coming out and endorsing George Latimer against his friend and former squad affiliate, Jamaal Bowman, because of the anti-Israel and anti-Jewish bigotry that we were seeing.

Brian Lehrer: You represent Rockland County talk about bigotry, which among other things has a meaningful Haitian American population. Have you embraced former President Trump's campaign strategy of claiming Haitians are eating people's pets or embraced the Republican state and local officials who say that's a lie? Governor Mike DeWine, as you know, called it a piece of garbage that was simply not true.

Congressman Mike Lawler: I was the first Republican in Congress to speak out against it because I represent one of the largest Haitian diaspora per capita in the entire United States. I've had a very strong relationship with our Haitian community here. They're wonderful people, who about 40% of the Haitian population is in the United States. They have been here for a very long time, they've contributed greatly to our communities. As I said at the time, no one should be engaging in that type of attacks against individual people who were peddling in rumor because somebody posted something on Facebook-- [crosstalk]

Brian Lehrer: My question is-- Go ahead, I'm sorry. Go ahead and finish.

Congressman Mike Lawler: The Haitian community here in the United States has been a wonderful addition to the American population and really work tirelessly to contribute to our country, our communities, our economy. I have been proud to stand with them.

Brian Lehrer: The follow-up question is that kind of promoting racist lies plus the stolen election lies and inaction, at very least inaction on January 6 during the riots, aren't uniquely disqualifying to you.

Congressman Mike Lawler: Look, at the end of the day, Brian, this is a choice for the American people. The American people have chosen these two nominees, although I would say that Kamala Harris was not actually chosen by the American people. For the whole point about protecting and preserving democracy, it's fascinating that 14.6 million voters were discarded and their votes discounted and Joe Biden was pushed out. That being said, this is the choice we have. This is the choice in this election and the American people will make that choice. Whether you like it, or I like it, or someone else likes it, this is the choice that we have. Ultimately, I will respect the decision that the American people make.

Brian Lehrer: On abortion rights, Democrats are saying your position is very restrictive. I've seen quotes where your website says you would oppose a national abortion ban, but you said in an interview with Lohud, "I think most people reasonably believe that an elective abortion should occur in the first trimester." I think when you talk to rational and have a rational discussion about this, that's where most people fall. The sad part about this debate is that the extremes are what drives the conversation "of view" in Lohud. American women don't seem to want a first trimester ban.

They think by and large that that's extreme. That would be earlier than some of the fetal abnormality tests. In real life, later term abortions are rare and women only get them under extreme circumstances in their lives not because, "Oh, I changed my mind." The idea of discussing a first trimester limit and calling something more than that extreme, do you understand why many women might not trust you on this issue?

Congressman Mike Lawler: Again, misstating my position Brian, but--

Brian Lehrer: I was quoting you.

Congressman Mike Lawler: -thanks for doing so.

Brian Lehrer: I was quoting you.

Congressman Mike Lawler: No, you're not, actually, but here's part of the problem. Again, the conversation is driven by the extremes. My wife and I had a miscarriage back in 2020. That is something that certainly helped shape my view. You don't forget that loss, anyone who has had a miscarriage or lost a child understands that. As I've said many times, I don't think anyone cavalierly has an abortion. I think this is a deeply difficult and personal decision that people make. As I have said repeatedly, I will not and have not supported any effort to ban abortion nationwide. I have always believed in exceptions for rape, incest, the life and health of the mother.

Despite the false advertisements that have continually been put out by my opponent and the Democrats, I fought back against the effort in my own party to ban mifepristone. We were able to block that from passing through the House. I also have introduced legislation and supported other legislation to codify access to IVF as well as contraception. I've been very clear where I stand on this, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: When you say oppose a national ban, does that include a national ban bill for after 15 weeks or any kind of national restrictions?

Congressman Mike Lawler: This is the decision based on the Dobbs decision. The decision resides in the states. I will not be supporting any effort at a federal level to restrict it. The decision resides in the states, in the state of New York. The state of New York has been clear about this and the law is settled. It is not changing, and I am not seeking to change it. The issue before the people of New York is one where the law on abortion is settled at 24 weeks.

Brian Lehrer: I know you got to go. One more issue before you go. The cost of living is a central issue to many last minute deciders and swing districts nationally. We're doing shows coming up on housing inflation and cost of child and elder care inflation. Would you argue that you or your party support better policies on those things than your opponents?

Congressman Mike Lawler: 1000%. My opponent was part of the effort to increase spending by $5 trillion in two years, which is what gave us the record inflation, the reason people are dealing with high grocery costs, high energy costs, high housing costs. The average mortgage cost in my district has gone up $1,000 a month, that's over $12,000 a year as a result of the reckless spending that we saw at the federal level. They talk about wanting to cap prescription drugs, for instance, and they talk about wanting to preserve Medicare and yet recent reports came out showing that Medicare costs are going to skyrocket because of the programs they've put in place.

My opponent, for instance, accuses me of wanting to cut Social Security, it's a lie. Even the Wall Street Journal has come out and said that's a lie, the New York Times last year saying no such cuts have occurred. The reality here is that the cost of living is astronomically higher because of Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, and Mondaire Jones reckless spending policies. We have to rein in spending.

We have to increase domestic production of energy, which will help reduce cost of manufacturing, will help reduce cost of shipping and transporting, and it'll help reduce the cost of goods. At the end of the day, there's a lot that has to be done in this next Congress. I'm looking forward to it. I'm proud of the work we did in this Congress to rein in spending, save $2.1 trillion over the next 10 years in deficit reduction, cap federal spending at 1% as part of the Fiscal Responsibility Act, but there's more work to be done.

Brian Lehrer: Congressman Mike Lawler, freshman Republican incumbent running for reelection in the newly redrawn 17th congressional district covering Rockland and Putnam Counties and parts of Westchester and Dutchess. Thank you very, very much.

Congressman Mike Lawler: Thank you.

Brian Lehrer: Later in the program, we'll have Lawler's Democratic opponent, former Congressman Mondaire Jones. That'll be in about a half hour. Brian Lehrer on WNYC, more to come now.

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