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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Yes, it happened, Mayor Eric Adams yesterday officially dropped his third party bid for reelection, setting up a three way race between Democratic nominees Zohran Mamdani, Republican nominee Curtis Sliwa and Andrew Cuomo running on another third party line. In a minute we'll break down the political implications and talk a little bit about Adams legacy as mayor.

Also, what happens to some remaining important policy items that hang in the balance for the rest of this year with Adams now a lame duck. He released a nine-minute dropping out video yesterday. He touted his own legacy like this.

Mayor Eric Adams: Despite all we've achieved, I cannot continue my reelection campaign.

Brian Lehrer: He didn't endorse anybody, but it seemed like he was dissing Mamdani when he said this.

Mayor Eric Adams: Too often, insidious forces use local government to advance divisive agendas with little regard for how it hurts everyday New Yorkers. Major change is welcome and necessary, but beware of those who claim the answer to destroy the very system we built together over generations. That is not change. That is chaos.

Brian Lehrer: Mamdani responded after viewing the video like this.

Zohran Mamdani: What I actually think of more in Eric Adams parting words are the ones that he gave us a few weeks ago, where he assembled a number of cameras and spoke to them directly, that Andrew Cuomo is a liar and and a snake. I think that New Yorkers are tired of that kind of politics. They're tired of considering the architect of this affordability crisis and Andrew Cuomo as being the next mayor of the city. They want a new direction.

Brian Lehrer: Mamdani yesterday. I haven't seen a Cuomo audio or video clip, but he released a statement that says, "The choice Eric Adams made today was not an easy one, but I believe he is sincere in putting the well being of New York City ahead of personal ambition. We face destructive extremist forces that would devastate our city through incompetence or ignorance."

He went on from there a little bit. We heard Adams, we heard Mamdani, quoted there from Cuomo. Joining us now, Katie Honan, reporter for the nonprofit news organization THE CITY and co-host of the New York Politics podcast FAQ NYC. Hey Katie, welcome back to WNYC.

Katie Honan: Thanks so much for having me, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: Why now?

Katie Honan: That's a good question. I don't know why. I think it's too late to get off the ballot. The weeks of reporting that he was going to the Trump administration in some form, the mayor always denied it, but I trust the reporting and the people who reported it whether or not the mayor was fully in the know about it. It seemed like people in his orbit were at least working towards that. Nothing's really come out of that.

The mayor has frequently complained about what he says is lack of money, how difficult it's been to raise money. The Campaign Finance Board repeatedly denying him what would amount to $4 million in taxpayer funding through matching funds, but he did have some money. I know campaigns are expensive, but he had a few million dollars. I don't know if that was necessarily the case.

I don't know why yesterday. I will say for reporters, we've been hearing he's going to drop out almost every day for the past couple weeks, so at least it put an end to that speculation for us so we could finally publish our pre written stories and then kind of move on to see what, what happens next.

Brian Lehrer: Oh, so you didn't have to work on Sunday afternoon, you had this story already written.

Katie Honan: I still had to listen to that nine-minute video.

Brian Lehrer: Seriously, after all the rumors that he would exit with a job in the Trump administration, or maybe the private sector, there was no reference to anything like that. Do you know the status of that possibility?

Katie Honan: The last I've heard, and I've seen reporting that there's nothing guaranteed at this point, and he could still take a job in January. Obviously he has his job as mayor for the next more than three months to get through. I'm sure for the people who work for him here at City hall, there's still stuff that they're working on.

I know journalism has its own uncertainties, but we don't have so much of a deadline of like, "December 31st, this project you're working on, it might not finish because we have a whole new term, we have a whole new sweep of people coming through." There will be some turnover and churn obviously with whoever the next mayor is, but we don't know who that might be yet.

I feel for the staffers here. Obviously when you're the mayor of New York City, and especially someone as dynamic as Mayor Adams was as mayor and continues to be, but there's plenty of staff who work for him, whether they came in when he became mayor or they've been here for previous mayors, they're also doing the work every single day, in spite of the noise, as the mayor would say.

Brian Lehrer: We'll come back in a few Minutes to some of the policy items that may be left hanging in the balance with the mayor now a lame duck. To stay on the dropout politics to, do you see any Trump fingerprints on this? Because one theory for why there aren't explicitly could be that if there is a job coming for Adams, it'll come after the election, because hiring him before that would hurt Cuomo by making it look to voters like Cuomo and Trump are in cahoots, and that Cuomo would owe Trump one, and that wouldn't be good for Cuomo.

Katie Honan: I don't see too much involvement right now. I know the president posted on Truth Social saying that a Mum Donnie victory would be good for the Republican Party. It did seem at a certain point that the president maybe lost interest to some degree with Mayor Adams. He never really explicitly endorsed him. Again, a lot of the backroom wheeling and dealing that from the reporting of other people and some on my own did involve people affiliated in some degree with Eric Adams.

It's not that he was down there meeting, but there were a lot of people trying to pull some strings because, again, when you're the mayor of New York City, you have a lot of people who are relying on you to stay mayor, or to have some sort of influence, because whether you work in government or just outside of government, a lot of times your connections are what matters. I think you have a lot of people who were reliant on Eric Adams being in some position of power because it personally benefited them.

Brian Lehrer: The other way to look at the interest of President Trump is that he might actually rather have Mamdani be the mayor next year so that he could rail against Mamdani, maybe send national guard troops to New York or whatever, but use Mamdani as the face of the Democratic Party, as he would allege politically, to try to help win the midterm elections for the congressional majority in all kinds of swing districts. I don't know if you, as a city reporter have reported on that, but one can make a good case that Trump would rather have that than defeat Mamdani in his race for mayor.

Katie Honan: That's come into play throughout the campaign. We heard it during the debate, this concern over who could respond best to President Trump and the former Governor Andrew Cuomo. I think his phrase was Trump would go through Mamdani like a hot knife through butter, implying that he would be weak towards the president. Then I think the other way to look at it is if there's a Mayor Cuomo, would he work well with the attorney general and the governor to perhaps create some unified front against Trump?

It would be interesting to see if that is what happens. That's another way to look at it as well. What we see President Trump doing most recently, like with Portland, I haven't visited Portland recently, so I can't speak to it, but based on the reporting from people there, it seems to be very different than what the president says is happening in Portland.

I think he seems to do this to a lot of Democratically led cities. Whether it's just to show power, I think his claim to bring safety to the cities, I don't know how true it is, especially because of the show of force he's trying to use, it seems a little outsized to what helps cities may need actually from the federal government.

Brian Lehrer: For people who hadn't heard it, that was the latest over the weekend. Trump now saying Portland is where he will send federal troops. We'll see if he actually does it. For Eric Adams supporters listening right now, if you were planning to vote for Adams for reelection, who do you think you'll vote for now? That's an essential political question.

212-433-9692, for anyone, how good or bad a mayor do you think Eric Adams has been? If you remove the corruption charges around him and his aides, how good or bad do you think he was on policy? Also, how does anyone feel upon hearing this news? Happy to see him go? Angry at him for putting himself in the city in this position? Concerned that this has happened to the city second Black mayor.

Adams always has said race has had something to do with with why people judge him harshly, why the press asks him tough questions, things like that that he has said, or any other comments or questions at this latest turning point in the race? 212-433-WNYC for Katie Honan, political reporter at the nonprofit news organization THE CITY. 212-433-9692 call or text.

We emphasize issues on this show as in our 30 issues in 30 days election series, but there are moments to look at the polls and this is one of them. As accurately as you can say with multiple polls out there, Katie, that are not all the same, what percentage of the vote did Mayor Adams have roughly, and demographically who are those people?

Katie Honan: Most of the most recent polls he was in the single digits below Curtis Sliwa with a Republican candidate. I think what was maybe most troubling to was he was losing support in areas of the city that he did really well in in 2021, parts of Central Brooklyn, even parts of southeast Queens, which maybe would have gone more for Cuomo or predominantly Black neighbors, predominantly where the voters are older in particular.

I think even what we saw even before doing campaign polling was his favorability numbers were really low as well. That's where you saw the real racial and age breakdown of how people were viewing him when he was elected and even now, when he speaks of this grand conspiracy against him, sometimes it's the press. He doesn't often speak specifically about who he thinks is out to get him, but he speaks to this belt of, I guess in 2021, it really went to Catherine Garcia, but a more wider Upper West Side Park Slope electorate, and that he thinks all the reporters live there, which I don't know.

I think he thinks we all the reporters live in some brownstone on the Upper west side, which is very, very untrue. That's in his head, who I think he thinks was out to get him. Then, of course, you saw his attacks on parts of the city which maybe over the last 20 years, through any number of, whether it's rezonings or other changes, have become younger and whiter in central Brooklyn in particular, or other parts of Brooklyn and Queens where you have a more to the left leaning electorate, younger voters, whiter voters, and what he saw as just people out to get him.

I think maybe where he felt he had some support there. I've spoken to voters who voted for him in 2021, and they felt disappointed by him over the last four years, and they wouldn't vote for him again, people of all different races and ages. I think people view his record not as favorably. That was going to be a deciding factor in the general election.

Brian Lehrer: Trey in Queens, you're on WNYC. Hi, Trey.

Trey: Hey, Brian. I would say that I voted for Adams the last election, but I would say that the guy has become a police ball, and whoever pays his legal fees, that's the person that bought him out. If I could say one more thing, the debate that you had with the last people, the one guy that was talking about socialism is bad, Adams and Cuomo is the reason why we're here. I did my budget last night, I make $80,000. I could barely afford anything. I'm left with $500 at the end of the month. I can't afford anything.

Brian Lehrer: That leads you to support Mamdani?

Trey: That's where I'm going to be heading.

Brian Lehrer: What do you think about Cuomo? There's question that Adam's previous base might go largely to Cuomo. There is some polling to that effect, and it's not that many people at this point. As Kenny was just saying, he's polling under 10%. What was your own process to come to Mamdani over Cuomo if that's your choice?

Trey: I have had people in my life that was sexually harassed and assaulted, and I cannot go for-- I do not trust my own family member around Cuomo, to say the least. That is number one reason why I cannot go for him. He's pretty much Eric Adams, but a much more sleazier version of him.

Brian Lehrer: Trey, thank you for your call in the lane of seeing sleaze among some of the candidates. Katie, are you hearing any reactions from Black leaders or regular Black New Yorkers about this defeat or embarrassment befalling the city's second Black mayor? Or that, as you were referencing Adams on before, if everything else was the same but Eric Adams was white, things might have turned out differently.

Katie Honan: It could be. I think as a white New Yorker, I don't want to speak on behalf of on what a Black New Yorker or any other New Yorker of color could be feeling. I think when I've spoken to voters, there's even maybe a little bit more disappointment. Someone saying they were excited to vote for a black candidate and they really liked--

He's a New Yorker in the terms of born in Brooklyn, raised in Queens, was a police officer. His story matches that of a lot of New Yorkers. It's a very relatable, not like running for office, but I think going to CUNY, getting a civil service job, that kind of thing. A lot of New Yorkers, as he often says, they saw themselves in him to some degree.

A lot of voters, and it's really been over the last six months in particular, they feel a deep disappointment, disappointment in his legacy, I guess. It's a hard thing to think about, and I think with more distance and years of distance, we'll look at his accomplishments on rezoning City of Yes, the containerization of garbage, and that kind of thing. I think a lot of it is he's scandal scarred and his Persona, I think, at a certain point--

Again, these are social media comments, so I don't take too much stock in it. When I'm on Instagram reels before bed, unfortunately, instead of reading or something, I see a lot of comments and on the Adams videos, it's, he's everywhere but his job. I think that's been this message from people where they see him out at night, and they don't find it to be as charming as he maybe wants them to.

Brian Lehrer: As you indicate, maybe history will view his mayoralty differently. He was certainly trying to make the case for reelection, that when you look at what was going on when he came into office, it was still very much pandemic time, New Year's Day, 2022, and with the asylum seeking immigration surge taking place, and there was inflation and unemployment and crime rates that were largely pandemic related, some people say other causes as well. He argues he's been very successful at leading the city through what were some monumental challenges. Many of those things are better now, but somehow that didn't seem salient in the race based on the polls.

Katie Honan: I think for some voters, they saw his indictment was one thing, the five count federal indictment, but then it being tossed out by the Trump administration. I hear from a lot of people who say he sold us out, the city collectively, for Trump. The mayor would remind us, Trump's the president, deal with it, but the majority of New Yorkers do not support the president.

That's a factual thing. Obviously we had more people in New York City vote for Trump in 2024 than previously. That's the facts of the majority of New Yorkers do not support President Trump. I think they saw the president's alliance, or what appeared to be an alliance with him, to be an act of betrayal.

I think even over the last two weeks, the mayor suddenly and almost overnight lying about this idea that elementary school students are showering together, his attack on trans students and gender inclusive bathrooms, the fact that it aligned so closely to when President Trump sent a letter to New York City and other cities criticizing this policy.

I think some people were like, "Why is he talking about this right now? Why is this an issue right now? Oh, it's because the president made it an issue." One voter told me it just felt like mayor was a marionette and Trump was pulling the strings on everything he did, which I don't think is completely true, but that's the perception people had, which the mayor will blame on the press.

Brian Lehrer: How do you think Mamdani or Cuomo or Sliwa might do anything new or different to try to woo those voters who were supporting Adams?

Katie Honan: I think, especially for the front runner with Mamdani, he'll continue doing what he has been doing, has a robust canvassing operation, and is trying to get out more voters who maybe hadn't even voted in the primary who might want to vote for him. I think for Curtis Sliwa, who also has a very large canvassing operation. I do wonder if he'll actually benefit more from these votes than--

What we just heard with the caller right now, there's a lot of people who have-- There's high unfavorability numbers for the former Governor Andrew Cuomo for any number of reasons. I think if you are maybe a more moderate Democrat, you supported Adams for some of his more moderate policies, but you don't want to support Cuomo and therefore you might jump to Curtis Sliwa.

I think when it comes to a general election, I think some obviously some voters do vote Democrat no matter who, but I think for some, they see a candidate like Curtis Sliwa, who's a known entity, he's not as closely aligned-- It was ironic that in New York City the Republican candidate seemed less aligned with President Trump, the Republican, than Adams, who is the former Democrat running as an independent.

Brian Lehrer: In what ways are Sliwa not aligned with Donald Trump?

Katie Honan: I think there's been reporting that they've had a decades long beef. He was quoted in the New York Times as saying he doesn't really support all of the MAGA policies. The January 6th insurrection was a main one for him. You've heard President Trump criticizing him. I think it was on Fox and Friends two weeks ago, again, the same criticism of which you heard Adams repeat, "Oh, this guy's got so many cats, how can he be mayor?" I will point out he has fewer cats than in 2021. Those are fosters.

It's a very similar criticism of Curtis Sliwa that here is someone who he is a Republican candidate, but to them they don't think he's viable or legitimate. Because he hasn't gone his words full MAGA on some of these policies, especially when it comes to LGBTQ issues. He said he's not aligned with some of the more extreme MAGA voters as well.

Brian Lehrer: Here's the kind of voter who Andrew Cuomo would need to and would hope to attract, listener texts. "I would have voted for Adams. Now I have to vote for Cuomo. I liken having to vote this way like I held my nose and voted for Hillary Clinton rather than vote for the unqualified Trump in 2016. Mamdani is not qualified to run New York City, and his base is too radical," writes one listener. We heard the caller before who voted for Adams in '21 but is now for Mamdani. People are distributing. How does Cuomo try to capitalize on that?

Katie Honan: I was thinking of what he could do to try to pick up those voters, but Adams hasn't-- I saw the New York Post reported that in the original cut he criticized Cuomo, but it was edited out. I don't know whose decision that was. Ultimately, he's previously called Cuomo a liar and a snake. I don't know what Cuomo would do differently, or if he even would do anything differently to suddenly try to speak to the base of Adams voters. I think the reality is he didn't really have a large base at this point. It's not like there's a huge number of Adams supporters who are now looking for a home. I think there just wasn't that many of them.

Brian Lehrer: From the reporting, I've seen the rough numbers. Again it's still relatively early because we see what happened in the primary when Cuomo was leading, leading, leading until he wasn't. The polls did reflect that in those last days or a couple of weeks before the primary election, that Mamdani was catching up and then Mamdani won.

There's still weeks to go and things could change, but the math that I'm seeing now and the reporting about Adams dropping out is that even if most Adams voters go to Cuomo, as the polls indicate that they probably would, it's still not enough to catch Mamdani if Sliwa support stays consistent.

Katie Honan: Right. I think actually Sliwa's numbers could go up post dropout from Adams. I just don't see it moving the needle that much for Cuomo or Sliwa.

Brian Lehrer: Before we run out of time, what about Sliwa? The People who are most opposed to Mamdani want Sliwa to drop out too, to consolidate anti Mamdani voters behind just one candidate. He insists he won't do that, but Adams also insisted he wouldn't until he did.

Katie Honan: I will believe Curtis Sliwa on this more than I had believed Eric Adams, only because Adams had a lot more to gain by perhaps dropping out and getting support in some ways from some wealthy back or whoever, because he has significant legal bills. I've never seen this before. It's almost like fan fiction of mayoral elections. Like, "If this person drops out and this person gets a job," I think no one's looking at the facts of the current slate. I don't see a world where Curtis Leeward drops out.

He's going to be in the race. All of these, "If it's just Cuomo and Mamdani, then it's different," and what would happen if this person dropped out. We saw it with Adams, which I'll say, Adams, when he would be asked directly if he's going to drop out, he would give a wishy washy answer, which is why we kept asking. Curtis Sliwa has said things like, "The only way I'm dropping out is if a Mack truck hits me." Or, "The only way I'm dropping out is if I'm in a pine box and I'm dead."

Which I guess is implied by saying, you're in a pine box. I don't see him dropping out. In some ways it's like, why should he? He got the nomination. It's just proving the point that Mamdani and Sliwa are making, that wealthy New Yorkers are trying to pull the strings on an election that should come down to the New York City voters.

Brian Lehrer: Just real quick, I said I would come back to this, and we're over time, but are there any New York City policy issues that would affect people in the city that hang in the balance now in a different way over these last remaining couple of months, now that Adams is officially a lame duck?

Katie Honan: I think the major things I think people are looking at like the zoning proposals and the construction of new housing and affordable housing, which over the last few months in particular, Adams has highlighted. Those are the ones that are sticking out to me. A lot of the other things, we have some smaller things coming up and reports that are due and that thing.

I'm curious to see what happens with some of those, and also some of the proposals that-- Like I think of McGinnis Boulevard, which was cited in the indictment against Ingrid Lewis Martin and others, what's going to happen with that project and other maybe safety projects.

Brian Lehrer: Katie Honan, reporter at the nonprofit news organization THE CITY. By the way, listeners, Katie and I and Errol Louis from New York 1 will be the three moderators in the second upcoming official campaign finance board mayoral debate that'll be on Wednesday night, October 22nd.

The first debate will be October 16th on Channel 4 with other moderators. Katie, I'll see you at this week's prep meeting where we'll have to throw out the old script and start crafting a three way debate instead of a four way one. See you there.

Katie Honan: All our Adam's questions, we're going to just throw them in the trash. Thanks so much.

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