Title: Mayor-Elect Mamdani's Meeting With President Trump

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Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Happy Thanksgiving week, everybody. If you stop following the news for the weekend after Friday's show, you may feel like today you're waking up on a different planet, a planet where Marjorie Taylor Greene announced she is leaving Congress and compared President Trump to an abusive husband.

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Marjorie Taylor Greene: I refuse to be a 'battered wife' hoping it all goes away and gets better.

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Brian Lehrer: It's a planet where the president, who used to call Zohran Mamdani a communist lunatic, said things like this in a joint news conference with him.

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President Trump: I think you're going to have, hopefully, a really great mayor. The better he does, the happier I am.

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Brian Lehrer: And it's a planet where Mamdani refused to endorse a fellow Democratic socialist who wanted to primary, Hakeem Jeffries.

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Kristen Welker: If Democrats win the midterms, do you want to see Leader Jeffries become the Speaker of the House?

Mayor-Elect Zohran Mamdani: Yes.

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Brian Lehrer: Mayor-elect Mamdani with Kristen Welker on Meet the Press. Hakeem Jeffries, the Brooklyn congressman, and of course, House Minority Leader, will join us live at 10:30 to talk about that and more. Let's start with New York Times metro politics reporter Jeff Mays, who covers New York City politics, obviously, and followed the trajectory of Mamdani calling Trump a despot and a fascist and a threat to democracy in the campaign, then asking Trump for a meeting after the election and winding up with what commentators are calling a bromance or a buddy movie at that joint Friday news conference. Hi, Jeff. Always good of you to come on. Welcome back to WNYC.

Jeffery Mays: Good morning, Brian. Thanks for having me.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, we'll open up the phones right from the start. Who wants to comment on the Trump-Mamdani meeting and its results from the Mamdani side of the equation? 212-433-WNYC. We'll do this in two parts on the show today, the Trump part later. For now, with New York Times metro political reporter Jeff Mays. We're inviting your calls on the Mamdani side of things.

If you're a DSA member or you are a Mamdani volunteer or otherwise voted for him and feel like part of his base, how are you feeling about him toning it down with President Trump, appointing Jessica Tisch as police commissioner and calling off the DSA from endorsing Chi Ossé, who would have been a progressive primary challenger against Hakeem Jeffries? 212-433-WNYC, call or text, 212-433-9692, on how you're feeling about Mamdani making any of these kinds of moves after the election that might be considered more conciliatory rather than staunchly trying to depart from business as usual.

More than that, DSA members, Mamdani volunteers, anyone who considers yourself part of his base, your reactions to the mayor-elect's outreach since the election and anything else he has done since the election. 212-433-WNYC, call or text, 212-433-9692. Again, later, after Hakeem Jeffries is on at 10:30, we'll invite your theories about why Trump played so nice with Mamdani in their news conference on Friday. I think even much of the professional political commentariat is a little bit stumped by that. We'll invite your theories about Trump and Mamdani later in the hour after Hakeem Jeffries.

For now, again, if you voted for Mamdani because he would be tougher on Trump than Andrew Cuomo perhaps, or anything else related, DSA members, Mamdani volunteers, anyone who wanted to see Hakeem Jeffries primaried from the left, anybody else who considers yourself part of Mamdani's base, your reactions to the mayor-elect's outreach since the election and anything else related. 212-433-9692, your calls, your texts with Jeff Mays, New York Times metro political reporter.

Jeff, everyone seems surprised by the friendly vibe at the Trump-Mamdani appearance on Friday, but you reported last Monday that Trump had mentioned the possibility of a meeting, and then Mamdani reached out, representing a change in tone for both of them, you wrote. What was the origin of how this came about and both of their change of tone, as you called it?

Jeffery Mays: Well, I think President Trump has been talking about New York City, which is where he was born and where he has real estate projects for a while. He tried to influence the outcome of the mayoral race by practically endorsing Mamdani's opponent, former Governor Andrew Cuomo. One of the questions facing Mamdani during the election was how would he deal with a president who wanted to be deeply involved in the city's affairs by doing things like sending the National Guard and threatening, as the president has, to cancel federal aid to the city. These were huge questions sort of hanging over Mamdani's head after the election.

They reached out to the president to set up a meeting. One of his advisors, Patrick Gaspard, who was a former aide to President Obama and who has been an advisor, helped broker that meeting. The president accepted that meeting, and they went in. I think the shock has been that the way that they were talking about each other is strikingly different from what we saw on Friday in that meeting.

President Trump has called Mamdani a communist lunatic, for example. Mamdani has been clear. Even after the interview, he said he still thinks President Trump is a bit of a despot. The fact that they came out of that meeting smiling, shaking hands, President Trump even defended Mamdani from some critical questions from members of the conservative news media. It was a pretty remarkable achievement.

Brian Lehrer: Do you think you were maybe less surprised than a lot of other people about how this turned out? Did your reporting indicate that this wasn't really ever going to be like the Trump versus Zelenskyy smackdown at their infamous joint news conference or something like that, which much of the media seemed to anticipate?

Jeffery Mays: Yes, I think there's a couple of things. One, I think what happened demonstrates, what I've seen in covering Mamdani, is a real pragmatism and a sort of laser focus on the goals that he has laid out. For over a year now, he has been talking about three main goals, which is to provide universal childcare, to freeze the rent, to make buses fast and free, and the fourth one of opening some sort of city-owned grocery stores, which all come together under this rubric of improving affordability, making it easier for working-class, middle-class people to afford New York City.

He has been laser focused on that for over a year during his campaign. When I spoke to him last week, that was his message going into this meeting with President Trump. "We want to find a common ground," he said, "between myself and the President on this issue of affordability." President Trump did run on the affordability issue. He did win more votes in New York City than he had during his previous run, and so Mamdani saw a chance for alliance there. That was really his focus going into the meeting, trying to just align themselves on that one issue. It did go better than, I think, a lot of people expected.

I thought there was a potential for some hostility, but if you think about it, I think they, both men, needed this. Trump needed a win, right? Republican-controlled Washington has not necessarily delivered on any of those promises of affordability that the president made in his campaign. Mamdani, I think, has a lot to lose if it looked like he could not handle President Trump, if he could not maintain some sort of relationship with President Trump. In my conversations with his campaign, one of their goals, they said was to sort of just ease New Yorkers' minds that he would be able to handle someone who is a very unpredictable, mercurial politician.

Brian Lehrer: Some texts coming in. Listener writes, "Mamdani gave nothing away. He let Trump fawn over him. He clearly charmed and impressed him." Somebody else, "I'm a Mamdani supporter and voted Bernie every chance I got. I too am surprised by the meeting, but delighted. Mamdani is playing a good chess game." Somebody else, "Mamdani is literally walking emotional intelligence. What happened at the White House is what soft power looked like." There are a few of the texts that have come in. Others are coming. We'll take some phone calls too. On the Mamdani side of this, whether you're happy with what the mayor-elect did or how you analyze it later on the Trump side.

Everyone's heard the main sound bites from Friday by now, I think, Jeff, and we all know it may or may not last. We'll talk about what might happen with Trump and Mamdani next, but I want to go back to maybe an even earlier prehistory of how they might have wound up coming together as much as they did on Friday. This is a clip of Mamdani here on this show back on June 25th, the day after he won the Democratic primary. This clip begins with my question.

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Brian Lehrer: Do you think there were Donald Trump, Zohran Mamdani voters in your victory last night?

Mayor-Elect Zohran Mamdani: [chuckles] I think there were many. I met some of them myself, and I think ultimately it comes back to listening to New Yorkers more than lecturing them, because when I had those conversations, just a few days after the presidential election, what I heard time and again was, a motivating factor being the inability to afford life in this city. I actually asked those same New Yorkers, the vast majority of whom were Democrats, "What it would take to bring them back to the party?" They said, "A relentless focus on cost of living."

I asked, "What would you say to a candidate running to freeze the rent, running to make buses fast and free, running to deliver universal childcare?" They said they'd vote for that candidate. Then I introduced myself as that very candidate.

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Brian Lehrer: Mamdani here in June. Jeff, he had Trump voters in mind as part of his coalition from the start. Do you think Mamdani was always looking at a sort of coalition of people on the left, focused on Trump as a threat to democracy as well as affordability, and swing voters concerned primarily about affordability and maybe even had some kind of unified front on the cost of living in mind from the start?

Jeffery Mays: Yes, I think so. I mean, early in his campaign, he was out on Fordham Road in the Bronx, which is one of the districts in the city that saw the sort of greatest increase in Trump voters. He was talking about this very issue, affordability, quality of life, can you afford groceries, can you afford childcare, how difficult is the city's transportation system, the state of the city's transportation system making your life? Early on, he was very clear that "I want to address those issues."

Talking to Mamdani, he says, out talking to voters, that is the issue that came up again and again. People he met that voted for Trump said they voted for him because they thought he would be able to address some of these very basic issues that were affecting their lives. Again, he has been laser focused on this for over a year now and has made a very strong point. Just before the general election, he went back to Fordham Road and spoke to people. Whereas a year ago, he had trouble talking to people or getting people to stop.

Now everybody knew who he was. They were aware of his agenda. They could sort of recite his campaign pledges, so yes, I think this is a very purposeful effort on behalf of Mamdani to stay focused on these issues to try to build a new coalition. He was successful in that. During the election, he really expanded the electorate based on the idea of New York being an unaffordable place to live and that the mayor needs to be the person to change that.

Brian Lehrer: Yes. He had cited, even during the primary campaign, the Fordham Road corridor in the Bronx, the Hillside Avenue corridor in Queens, and yet he ran with Trump as a threat to the city as the number two issue for him, only behind affordability. Yesterday, Mamdani held a follow-up news conference here in the city, and he also did go on Meet the Press on NBC. Here is one exchange where the host, Kristen Welker, asked if Mamdani thinks his base is okay with him playing this nicely with this president.

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Kristen Welker: I think that some of your supporters would be curious to know, you say you stand by your past statements that, yes, he's a threat to the democracy. How do you square working with someone who you still think is a threat to the democracy?

Mayor-Elect Zohran Mamdani: I think working for the people of New York City demands that you work with everyone and anyone, and that you always look to find those areas of agreement while not overlooking the places of disagreement, and I think this was something that came up in our meeting. We spoke about immigration. We spoke about the fact that in New York City we have sanctuary city policies that allow for the city to work with the federal government on around 170 serious crimes. The concern for so many New Yorkers comes about anything beyond that. I spoke about the importance of us being able to protect New Yorkers. Some of the incidents that we see, they do not do that.

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Brian Lehrer: Does your reporting indicate-- So far, we're not really getting any of this on the phones, just a teeny bit in text messages from a couple of people who don't like the Jessica Tisch police commissioner appointment, but does your reporting indicate any backlash to Mamdani toning it down about democracy as much as he has the last few days, at least in the president's presence? Again, on Meet the Press, when they see Trump as a despot and a fascist and on a mission to turn the US into a strongman, authoritarian state.

Jeffery Mays: Well, obviously he doesn't take office until January 1st, but I think among Mamdani's supporters and followers, there has been a willingness to allow him to moderate on some of these issues. He has done so since he won the election. Immediately after, he began meeting with business leaders in the city, some of whom had pumped millions of dollars into super PACs to stop his election. He moderated slightly on his position on Israel on this phrase, "Globalize the intifada."

At first, he refused to comment on it, and then he later said he would discourage people from using that phrase, so what we see is a willingness for him to sort of moderate on these issues in an effort, he says, to focus on what is his main goal, which is affordability, but at the same time, from a lot of his supporters, we see a willingness to allow him to do this for the moment.

Now, this could be part of honeymoon phase, and eventually, people will be upset and they will want him to take stronger positions on certain issues, but for the moment, there is a great willingness from people I've spoke to who are his supporters, even people whose top issue is Palestine and Israel relationship, they are saying that we need to give him a chance to get in, get to work before we begin just tearing him down.

Brian Lehrer: Well, you mentioned Palestine, Israel, and globalize the intifada. I mean, one constituency Mamdani has a complicated relationship with thus far is Jewish New Yorkers. Jewish New Yorkers are, of course, politically and culturally diverse. Many voted for Mamdani, but most did not, from the reporting I've seen about the election results. Last week, he made remarks after an ugly protest outside the Park East Synagogue in Manhattan, where there was an event by a group that helps recruit American Jews to move to Israel.

As the Times of Israel reported on the protest, protesters shouted, "Death to the IDF," "We don't want no Zionists here," "Resistance you make us proud, take another settler out," and "From New York to Gaza, globalize the intifada." There's that phrase again that Mamdani doesn't want to unequivocally denounce. He won't use the word denounce because he says intifada doesn't necessarily mean violence, even though many Jews hear it as a call for that, hear it as a reference to what's known as the Second Intifada in Israel. Mamdani, as you say, issued a statement that used the word discouraged, as he has in the past.

The statement after the Park East Synagogue incident said, "The mayor-elect has discouraged the language used at last night's protest and will continue to do so. He believes every New Yorker should be free to enter a house of worship without intimidation, and that these sacred spaces should not be used to promote activities in violation of international law," from Mamdani's statement. Jeff, he's getting some criticism in some pro-Israel and Jewish circles for speaking both against the protesters' language and the event itself. It wasn't just globalize the intifada.

If the Times of Israel had it right, it was also "Take another settler out," which sounds like a call to violence. I read that Mamdani later had to clarify his statement, specifically that by violations of international law, he meant specifically expanding Jewish settlements in the West Bank, not moving to Israel proper, but with concerns about how Mamdani would protect Jews from violent antisemitism in the city. Though there was no physical violence by the protesters from anything I saw reported, I think critics want to hear a stronger response, so that will be even less likely to happen, according to them. Are you seeing anything about further developments on that?

Jeffery Mays: Well, I think as a sign of his willingness to moderate on certain issues, after that first statement that you read, I believe they issued another statement where they talked about protecting Jewish New Yorkers being one of his priorities. This has been an issue throughout the campaign. Former Governor Cuomo made an issue of some of Mamdani's positions on Israel and Palestine throughout the campaign. There were a lot of Jewish New Yorkers, as you mentioned, who were concerned about his positions, but at the same time, there were a lot of Jewish New Yorkers who do support him.

The public's opinion on the war in Gaza really shifted more towards where Mamdani was by the time this election was over. You saw a lot of people sort of coming to his side in terms of the points he was making about Palestine, about humanitarian rights, and treating people safely. At the same time, he has been in New York, making it clear that he will protect Jewish New Yorkers. Again, I think that is a sign of his pragmatism. He knows that that's what Jewish New Yorkers want to hear, that he does care about their safety as well. He has not been afraid to say that.

Brian Lehrer: Right, and we'll see over time if Jewish New Yorkers feel that he has said and ultimately done, once he becomes mayor, enough. The texts keep rolling in. One says, "DSA member and Zohran volunteer. I'm fine with Zohran meeting with Trump. One of Cuomo's main attacks was that Trump would roll over Zohran. That was proven not to be the case." Another one who doesn't like the Tisch appointment criticizes it in one text, then sends another that says, "Tisch is also one of the architects of the expansion of NYPD surveillance state, including the so-called gang database of mostly Black and brown New Yorkers."

Another listener writes, "My name is Sasha, I'm a lifelong New Yorker, and I voted for Zohran. Either Trump went into the meeting already decided that he was going to be cordial and praise Mamdani to win political goodwill, or Zohran is the most convincing orator of all time. If the latter is true, I would love to know what Zohran could possibly have said to Trump in that meeting." Jeff, what did Mamdani say to Trump in that meeting from your reporter covering the mayor-elect as far as you know?

Jeffery Mays: Well, my understanding was that the meeting was also very friendly, the private meeting was also very friendly. Didn't get exact word-for-word conversations, but my understanding is that he made clear how he felt about the National Guard being deployed to the city, that that wasn't something that was necessary, for example, and just sort of stuck to his positions, but my understanding is that it was also a very friendly private meeting, and that was reflected in the news conference afterwards as well.

Brian Lehrer: Cole in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. Hi, Cole.

Cole: Hi. Yes, I'm a Mamdani supporter. I'm actually a Working Families Party's registered voter, born in New York. I think Mamdani did make, if I was in his shoes, what I would consider the right choices. It's obvious that, as mayor, he has to work with the federal government. He has to work with Donald Trump. I think it was a smart play to stay focused on his goal, as you all have been saying, and not get distracted with the politics and to just go in heads down, staying focused, and effectively almost kiss the ring a little bit.

My understanding is Trump has such an ego that it's just important for him to walk in and follow that process. If Mamdani says, "Here's the issues that are in front of New Yorkers, and I want to help fix it" and doesn't talk about anything else, then that's probably a smart move, in my opinion. Yes.

Brian Lehrer: Cole, thank you very much. Ricardo in Queens, you're on WNYC. Hi, Ricardo. [silence] Ricardo in Queens, do we have you? Ricardo?

Ricardo: Am I on?

Brian Lehrer: Ah, there you are. Yes, you're on.

Ricardo: Oh, I thought she was going to say-- All right, okay. I am a longtime Democrat who recently got so fed up. I am now a registered Republican, and I did not vote for Mamdani to be his drinking buddy, like I voted for a very smart young man who is a promise of a great politician to represent our interests. I think he's on the way to becoming an Elizabeth Warren, a Bernie Sanders. I applauded him. I think he was, yes, whatever he is from the left. He's a smart, good politician, and he's going to represent our old-time New York interests.

Brian Lehrer: Ricardo, I'm curious, you said you are now a registered Republican.

Ricardo: Yes.

Brian Lehrer: Did you vote for Trump for president last year?

Ricardo: I did not vote for Trump, but I am a Republican because, in a way, I think, like, everybody keeps looking at the head of the ticket as if nothing else matters. We really need people who stand by their overall ticket. That's what I thought was good about Mamdani. Yes, he has his pie in the sky, like promises and things, but it's the next day. We need to be realistic. We need to be good workers. I think that's what he just did.

Brian Lehrer: Ricardo, thank you very much. Yet another text in support of Mamdani going to the White House and speaking the way that he did. Listener writes, "Mamdani supporter here. Purity tests will destroy us. We have to stop this." I assume that's in support. Jeff in Astoria, Mamdani's assembly district. You're on WNYC. Hi, Jeff.

Jeff: Hi. Good morning, Brian. Hello. Good morning, Jeff. A couple of quick points. Want to echo, I think, what the previous caller said regarding Trump. I think we don't need to overthink this. I think Mamdani is obviously a bright, intelligent, savvy person, so he just went in and kissed the ring and flattered Trump. I think that's well documented. That's just the way to success with Trump. There's just nothing more to it. What I'd really like to dedicate a little time to is the whole issue of Hakeem Jeffries.

I don't think you've yet mentioned, Brian, that Mr. Jeffries and roughly 80 other Democrats signed or voted in support of some ridiculous GOP resolution or statement last week in the House saying that they denounce socialism in all shapes, forms, and fashions. That really begs the question, does that mean Hakeem Jeffries no longer supports Social Security in other what you would call socialistic or government programs that have that bent or have that leaning? If so, then maybe it is time to primary Mr. Jeffries. Even if he does support them, what is he doing voting for a resolution like that?

Brian Lehrer: Yes.

Jeff: That really shows, again, a lack of leadership and that maybe he's not up to the task of being a leader and potential speaker of the House, much like many people also think Chuck Schumer is not up to the task of being a leader on the Senate side.

Brian Lehrer: Well, let me jump in because we have limited time left because Congressman Jeffries, Minority Leader Jeffries, is going to be our next guest in just a few minutes. Jeff, given what you just said, are you disappointed that Mamdani called off the DSA from endorsing a progressive primary challenger to Jeffries?

Jeffery Mays: I'm going to say-- [crosstalk] Oh.

Jeff: I'm not [crosstalk]--

Brian Lehrer: I know you're both named Jeff. [laughs] I'm asking the caller Jeff. Jeff, go ahead.

Jeff: Sure. I'm not as informed of what a potential challenger would have been, so I don't want to speak uneducated on the issue beyond just that if that's someone that would have not voted for that resolution and would provide a certain level of leadership, then I would be very interested in someone challenging Representative Jeffries from that perspective, in that I think we need that type of leadership. We need that type of strong leadership, someone that isn't going to fall for GOP gamesmanship, and frankly, just look weak, which is what he did in doing that.

Brian Lehrer: Jeff, thank you very much. Jeff Mays from the Times, before you go and we bring on Representative, Minority Leader Jeffries, I see you also contributed to the Times story on Mamdani urging the DSA not to endorse Chi Ossé, a City Council member from Brooklyn, as a primary challenger to Hakeem Jeffries. We played the clip of Mamdani on Meet the Press yesterday saying he's for Jeffries not just being re-elected but being the Democrats' choice for speaker if they do take the House majority next year.

We have news on this front from over the weekend, for people who haven't heard it yet, I see the DSA members in fact voted on Saturday not to endorse Ossé. Why do you think Mamdani allied himself with Jeffries who barely endorsed Mamdani for mayor right near the end of the campaign?

Jeffery Mays: Again, I think this is a great example of his pragmatism and practicality. I think coming in as the mayor of New York City, fighting with someone who could potentially be the next speaker of the House is not necessarily a fight he would want to have. He's going to need help from Washington and other places, Mamdani is, if he's going to accomplish his agenda as well.

In addition, a lot of people thought Ossé would have an uphill battle challenging Speaker Jeffries. Along those lines, the DSA said they didn't necessarily think this was a battle they could win that would potentially do more harm than good to their overall policies and agenda in New York City, and so they did not endorse him. It does not look like Ossé is going to run. He said he wanted the endorsement of the DSA in order to move on Jeffries. He cited a lot of the issues that Jeff from Astoria just cited in saying that he felt that Jeffries needed to be challenged.

I think what's happening is a lot of people are seeing what Mamdani did in this election, how he challenged the status quo in a way, ran when a lot of people thought "he wouldn't win, he didn't have a shot," was pretty much unknown, started out at 1%, and sort of through the strength of his message, was able to win the election. I think people think that is a plan that could work elsewhere. Mamdani went to the DSA meeting and told them that he didn't think this was something that should be happening now. I think it speaks to his pragmatism, practicality, and even his political smarts.

Brian Lehrer: Jeffery Mays, New York Times metro political reporter, thanks for joining us today.

Jeffery Mays: Thank you, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: We'll talk to Leader Jeffries live right after this.

 

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