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Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning, everyone. And good morning again, everyone, for those of you who've been listening to our special coverage of the indictment of Mayor Eric Adams on corruption charges in the last hour. And we'll keep talking about that to start the regular Brian Lehrer Show now. We'll come back to it as well in the eleven o'clock hour. And whenever the Southern District of New York district-- not district attorney, US Attorney Damian Williams holds his news conference, we will bring that to you live. We're expecting that around 11:30 now, but we do also have some other guests who for now, are planning to keep.

We have the head of the MTA, Janno Lieber, to answer my questions and yours with so much mass transit news and the centrality of that to our New York region lives. We'll try to keep that appointment with Janno Lieber. We may get a take on the UN General Assembly session in there somewhere. And we have-- forgive me as I choke on my water. And we have Sarah Smarsh, author now of Bone of the Bone: Essays on America by a Daughter of the Working Class. And besides talking about her book, we'll play a clip or two and get her reaction to some of the working class oriented economic proposals from Vice President Harris's economic policy speech yesterday.

So we'll do as much of all that as we can while still staying on top of the momentous news of the first ever criminal indictment of a sitting New York City mayor. Joining us now to talk more about that is our lead Eric Adams reporter, as we call her, City Hall reporter Elizabeth Kim. Hi, Liz.

Elizabeth Kim: Hi, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: So you were just here yesterday, as you usually are on Wednesdays after the mayor's Tuesday news conference. Did you have any idea that this was coming down the pike barely 12 hours later?

Elizabeth Kim: Well, there have been rumors that have been intensifying. And actually, at the mayor's weekly press conference on Tuesday, Melissa Russo of NBC 4, in her question to the mayor, basically said that she had been receiving tips that there could be a criminal indictment as early as this week on the fundraising. Immediately after the press conference, I went to her and I asked her about it, and she said, "Yes, that's what we're hearing," and that wasn't just from her. That was from a lot of people.

Then throughout the day, there were intensifying, I don't know what you call it, tips or speculation about that. My phone was lighting up, different people sending me different kinds of texts. Then I think as we were reaching the evening, it was becoming texts from perhaps more credible sources I would say, people who don't normally reach out to me, but telling me that this was something that they were hearing from inside the mayor's office that something was about to happen. Then me and my colleagues got on a phone and my colleagues started making calls. And yes, and then, lo and behold, we did see it coming, but The Times had the story.

Brian Lehrer: In a minute, I want to play for our ten o'clock listeners as we played in our 9:00 AM special coverage hour the two and a half-minute video that Mayor Adams released last night as kind of a preemptive defense, if not a legal defense, at least a defense for public consumption and in the context of politics and his interest in remaining in the job of mayor. So those of you who've been with us since nine o'clock listening to special coverage and have heard this already, I apologize. But I think many, many, many of our listeners right now were not with us an hour ago. And I think this is important to help set the scene.

Mayor Adams, after all, even when he's officially indicted or when that indictment is announced later this morning. And again, we're expecting 11:30 to be the time when us attorney Damian Williams makes an announcement and takes questions from reporters as well. Even in advance of that, the mayor released this video for the people of New York to hear laying out a little bit of his defense and saying he has no intention to resign.

So we're going to play that right now and continue to talk to our reporter Liz Kim. And we can take some of your phone calls as well. Listeners who were listening in the nine o'clock special coverage hour or just joining us, anything you want to say or ask about the criminal indictment apparently on some kind of corruption charges of Mayor Eric Adams, 212-433-WNYC. Call or text 212-433-9692. Now here's the two and a half-minute video of the mayor that he released last night.

Mayor Eric Adams: My fellow New Yorkers, it is now my belief that the federal government intends to charge me with crimes. If so, these charges would be entirely false, based on lies, but they would not be surprising. I always knew that if I stood my ground for all of you, that I would be a target, and a target I became. For months, leaks and rumors have been aimed at me in an attempt to undermine my credibility and paint me as guilty.

Just this past week, they searched the home of our new police commissioner, looking for documents from 20 years ago, just one week after he joined my administration. Enough. I will fight these injustices with every ounce of my strength and my spirit. If I'm charged, I know I am innocent. I will request an immediate trial so that New Yorkers can hear the truth. New Yorkers know my story. They know where I come from. I have been fighting injustice my entire life. That fight has continued as your mayor. Despite our pleas, when the federal government did nothing as its broken immigration policies overloaded our shelter system with no relief, I put the people of New York before party and politics.

Now, if I am charged, many may say I should resign because I cannot manage the city while fighting the case. I can also understand how everyday New Yorkers will be concerned that I cannot do my job while I face accusation. But I have been facing these lies for months, since I began to speak out for all of you, and their investigation started, yet the city has continued to improve. Make no mistake, you elected me to lead this city, and lead it I will. I humbly ask for your prayers and your patience as we see this through. God bless you, and God bless the city of New York. Thank you.

Brian Lehrer: Mayor Eric Adams in a video he released last night in advance of the indictment expected this morning on some kind of corruption charges. Our lead, Eric Adams reporter Elizabeth Kim is with us from City Hall. Liz, he called them lies.

Elizabeth Kim: He did, Brian. And you really got the feeling that he has been holding this in for a very long time, because while the investigation was ongoing, it was not in his interest to make any comments and he really has tried not to say anything. Although he has allowed his allies to suggest that this was some kind of political witch hunt because the mayor was very critical of the Biden administration's handling of the migrant crisis.

But now that he believes that the charges are going to be unveiled, and that's what we're hearing today, the gloves are off. He's free to go ahead and say this and make this accusation, and allow it to sink in in the public's mind.

Brian Lehrer: We're getting a call from one of the members of City Council, Shekar Krishnan from Jackson Heights, and I'm going to take that call. Councilmember, you're on WNYC. Thank you for calling today.

Shekar Krishnan: Good morning, Brian. Thanks so much for having me on.

Brian Lehrer: What did you call to say?

Shekar Krishnan: Well, first, I wanted to say it is a very sad day for New York City, and I'm profoundly disappointed. And I'm disappointed because all of us as New Yorkers, no matter how you voted, how you feel about the mayor, we need our mayor to succeed. We needed Mayor Adams to succeed because the future of our city depends on it. But as a parent walking my children to school this morning and this week, I'm hearing from fellow parents who are worried about their after-school programs with all the changing leadership at the Department of Education. I know there are seniors worried about access to healthcare and paying their rent, and every New Yorker wants to feel safe walking down our streets and on the subway.

So I think the real question-- and taking a step back, I want to be very clear. Mayor Adams is innocent of all charges until proven guilty. And he has every right, and I believe this strongly as a lawyer, every right to mount a vigorous legal defense. And I will defend his right to the end to do so. But the real question that he has to look in the mirror and ask himself as mayor, that every New Yorker has to ask themselves is in this moment, is he the best leader for our city with all the needs that we have and all the services that we depend on, with not only the cloud of investigations, but the fog of federal indictment, investigations around him and his leaders around him too? Is he the best leader to lead us without distraction going forward, given that he will also need to be laser focused on mounting his legal defense? I believe, as I said last night when the indictment broke, that I do not believe that he is the leader anymore for this moment, and he must resign.

Brian Lehrer: I have to ask you the same question that I asked Councilmember Tiffany Cabán when she was a guest on the show this week before the indictment became clear, and she was already calling on the mayor to resign just because of the investigations and the increasing number of resignations or retirements that were suddenly being announced that seemed motivated by the investigations. Again, that was even before an indictment. But we know that Councilmember Cabán has been one of the most outspoken critics of the mayor at the policy level. Same thing with Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez from a similar political place, who became the first member of Congress yesterday to call for Adams to resign. And that too, was before the indictment was announced.

For people, and we've had callers already this morning since our special coverage began at nine o'clock on both sides of this, saying, "Yeah, he really can't run the city effectively while he's fighting these charges," and, "Hey, give the guy a chance. He's been a pretty good mayor," in some of the callers' estimation, and, "He's innocent until proven guilty." So is any of this political for you, as candidly as you're willing to say that you didn't like him as mayor anyway, so you're taking this opportunity to increase the pressure on him to quit?

Shekar Krishnan: No, absolutely not. I think that's why I said very clearly, no matter how you feel, how you voted, we need our mayor to succeed. We needed Mayor Adams to succeed. And sure, I've had my differences over time with the mayor too. He came in, we have an administration that cut from our libraries, cut from early childhood education, from our parks, and we and the City Council had had to battle over and over again on these issues. He did not want to partner with the state and federal government on the issue of asylum seekers, and we've had strong policy differences.

But I specifically withheld any judgment to allow the federal investigation to come to its conclusion. And now, when I saw the indictment yesterday, that again raised for me a question that we all need to be asking, and most especially Mayor Adams. If he is going to be defending against a federal indictment, and with other senior leaders and in City Hall facing-

Brian Lehrer: All right.

Shekar Krishnan: -federal investigations, having their phone seized, will he be able to do this job effectively of leading this city as mayor of New York City? That is the real question now, given the court proceedings he'll face.

Brian Lehrer: Got it. Councilmember Krishnan from Jackson Heights. Thank you very much. Our reporter Liz Kim, still with us. Liz, I believe you're at City Hall. How many are there now? A day ago, we only had Tiffany Cabán. Now we have at least two after that phone call. Are there many others already calling for the mayor to step down?

Elizabeth Kim: I think for sure, definitely more than a handful. I haven't counted the exact number, but we're seeing people who are what might normally be considered politically aligned with the mayor, like a moderate Democrat, like Bob Holden, calling for the mayor to resign. So I think it's those types of people that it will be very telling if they start making the same call for the mayor to step down.

Brian Lehrer: And what do you think would change after the indictment is announced this morning in terms of the mayor's response? Maybe nothing.

Elizabeth Kim: Well, the charges. A lot of it is going to be in the charges and what is delivered today through the unsealing of the indictment and also at the press conference. How is this story being told to the public? A lot will depend on how that lands with the public. And a lot of that will also-- not just the public but elected officials, key stakeholders like the business community. So a lot's going to happen and ride on this 11:30 press conference.

Brian Lehrer: Right.

Elizabeth Kim: What I'm also really interested in seeing is how the mayor responds, because given the statement, the video statement that he gave yesterday, he is insisting that he can continue to serve. That means that he really needs to show up at City Hall. He really needs to show up and speak before reporters. Because to do the job of mayor means that he has to continue on with the type of schedule that he maintained prior to the indictment. And that is one way in which he does try to show the public that, "I am still in charge and this is not going to be a distraction."

Brian Lehrer: We have to take a break. When we continue in a minute, we'll take more phone calls with Elizabeth Kim. We do have Janno Lieber, the head of the MTA coming up, who was already scheduled this morning. So we're not just going to talk about the indictment of the mayor today. Janno Lieber in just a few minutes, really to take your questions and mine about a lot of MTA news. Also happening right now, mass transit news in and around New York City.

When we continue with Liz Kim, in addition to taking more of your calls and texts, I'm going to ask her about the role of Governor Hochul in all this. If Mayor Adams refuses to resign, the governor actually has the power to remove him. So we'll talk about what would go into that decision. Stay with us.

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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC as we're talking about the indictment of Mayor Eric Adams with our lead, Eric Adams reporter, Elizabeth Kim. The details are not yet known as the indictment has not yet been unsealed. We are expecting that in just about an hour from now. Liz, what we do know is that as we heard from the City Council member who called in, a growing number of New York elected officials are calling on the mayor to resign, and so far the mayor is saying, "No way." Governor Hochul has the authority to remove him is my understanding. Is that your understanding of the law?

Elizabeth Kim: That's correct, Brian. She does.

Brian Lehrer: And has she given any indication yet of what circumstances would lead her to actually do that?

Elizabeth Kim: She has not. Yesterday night, she put out a statement expressing her concern over the indictment, but she's going to wait until she hears the details that come out in about an hour like you said.

Brian Lehrer: Thomas in Brooklyn-- Oh, go ahead. Did you want to finish an answer, Liz? I'm sorry.

Elizabeth Kim: Well, I was just going to make the point that she and the mayor have sort of been politically wedded since they both came into office. They are both moderate Democrats who have prioritized public safety, but I think a lot of her calculus going forward is one, how damaging are these charges? And she has to look at her own approval rating. Like Adams, she does not have-- she's facing low approval ratings, and does she elect to tie himself to another, albeit an ally, but someone who is under indictment? We don't know what the charges are yet but that has to be a political choice for her, so she's going to need to think about what she does.

Brian Lehrer: Thomas in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. Hi, Thomas.

Thomas: Hi Brian, thanks for taking my call. I have a question for Liz, but I wrote a quick joke for you, if you wouldn't mind.

Brian Lehrer: A joke? You're calling with a joke? Do you think we can engage in levity on the--? Go ahead.

Thomas: Why does Eric Adams never call in to ask the mayor?

Brian Lehrer: Uh-oh. Go ahead.

Thomas: Because the FBI sees his phone.

Brian Lehrer: Well, that was almost funny. What's your question for Liz?

Thomas: Okay, so everyone and their mother's been subpoenaed in this administration. Are we expecting any other indictments today?

Brian Lehrer: Good factual question, Liz.

Elizabeth Kim: Yes, it is. And The Post has reported that at least two other aides are going to be indicted. These were people who were involved in the campaign. One of them is Winnie Greco. She was a fundraiser that did a lot of work in the Asian community. And the other person that The Post named was Brianna Suggs. That you might remember was his top fundraiser for his campaign whose home was raided by the FBI 10 months ago.

Brian Lehrer: Let's take another call. Here's Trey in Rockland County, but a Bronx resident he says. Hi, Trey, you're on WNYC.

Trey: Good morning, everybody. You're talking to a fourth generation New Yorker. And with these below rating politicians going on out here, it's disgusting to me. Okay, so we got Kathy Hochul who nobody voted in versus Eric Adams who eight people voted. [crosstalk]

Brian Lehrer: Oh, wait, people did vote in. I know Cuomo resigned and then she took over at that time, but then she won election to a full term. So go ahead.

Trey: But what I mean is the numbers. See, I go by the numbers. Like with Eric Adams, the same 18 people went and pulled the lever for him. When you look at the number of people that live in the city of New York, the number of people who are elected voters, who are to vote, when you do, the percentages of how many people that are able to vote actually got up and went to vote, there's a reason for that. [unintelligible 00:20:57].

Brian Lehrer: Yes turnout is low in New York. Yep.

Trey: Yeah, and why is that? Because you touched on it this morning with the with the Quinn and the other lady that does the schools. You know, New York is very savvy, and we see that. We see the foolery going on, the shenanigans. And whether the Supreme Court allows these shenanigans or not, we see it as shenanigans. This is the home of the mob, or used to be, and so we know shenanigans. And that's what we're seeing from people that are "politicians", "elected officials", "here for the betterment of the public", and we're sick of it. So why get up and vote between one little lion thief and another? Because that's what it feels like.

So I move right along. I'm going to move right along. This Eric Adams guy, this Eric Adams guy, because now you're going to mayor, okay, he's horrid. And the reason he's horrid is because everybody around you gets indicted, but you know nothing and you did nothing. Well, either you're incompetent or you're a liar. And either way, you do not deserve to be the mayor in the greatest city in the freaking world.

Brian Lehrer: Trey, I'm going to leave it there. Thank you very much. I think he stayed just on this side of an FCC violation, but I think the way he put it was technically okay. Well, Liz, there's a point of view out there. And I think trade does speak for a lot of people when they see a lot of smoke around the mayor and so many people being investigated, even though very few have been indicted so far, and think, "Well, what is the story with this guy? Why does somebody who ran as a former police captain after all and talks about abiding by the law is the most important thing that he's running on, right, safety is the prerequisite for prosperity, he keeps saying, and yet here he is being indicted?" And even before that, which the caller, Trey, was getting to there, he surrounds himself with all these people with past investigations.

Elizabeth Kim: That's right, Brian. And when I was out in Harlem a week ago, talking to voters, there was that sense there, but it was divided because, yes, there have been searches, there have been subpoenas, but tying all of this together, that has not been done yet. I think that is what we're expecting to change today once the indictment becomes unsealed, because, yes, there has been a lot of speculation around what are they after? And there has been a lot of reporting based on either leaks or unnamed sources. But I think tying everything together and knowing exactly what it is that the mayor is being charged with, I think that that will be really pivotal in shaping public opinion.

Brian Lehrer: We're going to leave it there for now. We're going to come back to our coverage of the indictment of Mayor Adams next hour. We are expecting an 11:30 news conference as of now by US Attorney Damian Williams. So we'll know a lot more, of course, when he lays out the details of the indictment. For now, we thank our lead Eric Adams reporter, our City Hall reporter, joining us live from City Hall today, Elizabeth Kim. Liz, thanks a lot.

Elizabeth Kim: Thanks, Brian.

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