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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Now we'll discuss the Mamdani interview we just did and the state of the race generally with our political reporter, Elizabeth Kim, who hasn't been on the show since yesterday. We invite your questions or reactions. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692, call or text. Liz, did Mamdani make any news there to your ear?

Elizabeth Kim: Well, three things come to mind. First, the issue of public safety. I like the way you phrased the question, Brian, because you asked him directly, "Do you still feel that the NYPD is a racist and anti-queer department?" He answered it declaratively. To my ear, that was the first time that I had at least heard him answer it that way, in which he said, "I do not."

In previous occasions, he tried very much to put those remarks in the context of the time in which he said it, which was during the height of the George Floyd protest, which is fair. I think you also gave him the acknowledgment that it's okay to evolve your positions as an elected official. I think we also need to recognize that at the time, and he still is, he's an assembly member, and perhaps he was playing a different role with his critique of the police department with an eye toward reform. Now he is running to be mayor. He is running to be a mayor who would eventually lead that department.

Another point, I think, that is really interesting, and I think this applies to all the candidates: the relationship with the rank and file. The police union, the PBA, which is the largest, the Police Benevolent Association, which is the largest uniformed police union of the police unions, is now led by Patrick Hendry. He's a very different personality from Pat Lynch. Historically, the police union has had outsized power in shaping the political narrative in this city around crime. I think you could see in certain ways how prior mayors have been cowed by that power.

I believe there is an opportunity for these candidates and for the next mayor to maybe seize some of that power back. That's not to say that Patrick Hendry is not going to be a staunch defender of uniformed police officers, but he's not the same kind of figure that Pat Lynch was, which was very provocative and controversial. I don't know if you or your listeners remember, after the killings of the police officers Liu and Ramos that happened in de Blasio's first year as mayor, he told the mayor, "You have blood on your hands."

Patrick Hendry is not that kind of figure. I do wonder when I hear Mamdani talk about, "I'm having conversations with the rank and file." I do wonder if he could somehow is able to-- with a different kind of union leader, whether he can bridge a different kind of relationship. I do wonder, especially in light of the slain officer Didarul Islam being a South Asian Muslim. I wonder what that looks like, what that relationship looks like.

The second issue I would say is, I think he sidestepped your question on what kind of policies would he implement with respect to the relationship of nonprofits or corporations and Israel. I don't think he answered that. He has this kind of blanket response that he wants to recognize the humanity of every New Yorker. He attacked Andrew Cuomo. He attacked Mayor Adams. He doesn't specifically say, and I think that has been a fair question that has been brought up is would you have the city not do business with certain kinds of companies that perhaps you find objectionable because of their involvement with the Israeli government? I think that's a fair question, and he didn't answer it.

On specialized high school, it is absolutely fair to say that he has backed away from his prior position, which was he wanted to abolish the test. Now, the fact remains that this issue of education, of segregation, it just didn't pick up during the mayoral primary. That doesn't mean that it's not a pressing issue and not an issue worth examining and looking at. You brought it up yourself, this issue of there being only eight Black students that were admitted to Stuyvesant this year. That's a problem. Those numbers perennially look bad.

Why is that a problem? Because it doesn't reflect the broader demographics of the public school system. There are 42% Hispanic students, 20% Black, 19% Asian, 16% white. When you look at the specialized high school system, that's not what it looks like. I think the question for the future mayor is, why does that happen, and how can I move and reshape those numbers?

He did talk about implementing some recommendations started by de Blasio at the middle school and elementary level. I think that this is still very much an issue worth pushing the candidates on. It's not enough to say that to let them not talk about it, because especially if we're going to have a candidate who has positioned himself as who has staked his candidacy on things around equity. This is very, very important for him to address.

Brian Lehrer: To my ear, what he emphasized in that answer was that he's going to very much try to address poverty in New York City. It's poverty that's the main driver of unequal educational outcomes. That's going to be priority one, if I understood him correctly, in addition to going to the desegregation recommendations.

Elizabeth Kim: Which is very similar to what Adams said. Adams was asked a lot about this because Adams also staked-- back in 2021, he also staked part of his candidacy on equity as well. That was his response. The response of his chancellor, too, was like, "Why are we only focused on a certain set of schools?" Like, how many specialized schools? We need to look at the bigger picture. We need to build more specialized schools. Which, I think, is a fair answer, too. I think the candidates have to start talking and looking at this.

Brian Lehrer: We also talk about his tax hike proposal for funding universal childcare for kids as young as six weeks old, and Cuomo's critique about why it would be difficult to get that through Albany. We have a call coming in about the childcare topic. Juliana in Forest Hills, you're on WNYC. Hi, Juliana.

Juliana: Hi. Thanks so much for taking the time to have me on. I have two kids. For my two-year-old, we just finished paying over $2,000 a month for 2-Care, and I'm relieved he's going into the Universal 3 program. I have a six-year-old. We're paying over $600 a month for him for after-school care. We're getting towards middle age. We're not saving for retirement. We're barely saving for college. We barely have an emergency fund. We definitely don't have a down payment. For us, the universal child care for younger age kids, even if my family doesn't benefit from it, I just know how transformational it will be for other parents.

I've actually gotten so radicalized by this issue that I've become a parent leader in a group called New Yorkers United for Childcare. We're really pushing for whoever becomes the mayor to pass universal 2-Care in the city as part of their agenda. I know just through my work with that group that there are so many parents that are struggling with this. It's parents of all income levels. Every neighborhood, it's just hard for everyone. We love living here. We love raising our kids here. We have such a strong community here. This is a huge challenge for us.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you for weighing in.

Juilana: I'd love to put that out there.

Brian Lehrer: You're glad he's going to try to do that, even if you don't need it for your family. I hear you. Liz, in that stretch of the interview, he didn't deny the substance of Cuomo's critique. He just thought he could get beyond it. When Cuomo said leveling the New York State corporate tax rate with New Jersey's would actually make it higher here because the city imposes another layer of tax, that's a city tax, that New Jersey cities don't match. He didn't deny that it would, in effect, be higher.

Cuomo asked, why would lawmakers from around the state approve a tax hike on their districts, companies that would only be used for the benefit of New York City? Again, he didn't really deny it, except that he said some of it would be used for the MTA, which benefits the whole region. Is it clear to you after the segment whether that's what Mamdani is actually proposing, those things to be used in that way?

Elizabeth Kim: Well, I will say that after Cuomo gave those remarks, when he was on with you, I did fact-check that, the part about New York City corporations already pay more than New Jersey. I reached out to a former city economist, and he said, "Yes, that is true," although he pointed out that there are certain types of breaks and subsidies that those city corporations can apply for.

The point that I thought that Mamdani might make, which I had thought about when Cuomo was making that point, the argument that, well, legislators from outside of New York City would have no incentive to approve a tax hike. Well, for one thing, if we're talking about tax hikes on individuals and the top 1%, I think that it's fair to say that those people are concentrated in New York City. Perhaps, of course, Long Island, but they're concentrated, I would think, downstate.

The same with he's talking about taxing a slave group of corporations that make a lot of money. I don't know how many of those corporations-- Of course, they're probably scattered all over the state. If we're just looking at the sheer numbers, I think it's fair to say that there is a larger proportion of those corporations downstate. I also think the other thing which he hinted at when he said, "I would be a part of those negotiations," and I think the key word to underscore there is, it's a negotiation.

When you're asking legislators from other parts of the country to agree to do something that would help New York City, often they're going to say, "Well, what's in it for me?" I think that we have to look at that in terms of the whole budget, what are the other things that are on the line here? I was kind of surprised he didn't make that point. That was my reaction when Cuomo made that point point, was I thought it was a little bit disingenuous. I think the governor knows better, too.

Brian Lehrer: Obviously, in-

Elizabeth Kim: Former governor.

Brian Lehrer: -a short interview, we couldn't get to every single issue on the table. I know that there's one, or I see that there's one bubbling up from a number of callers and people writing text messages that we didn't get to. Apparently, this is something that's becoming more urgent or more top of mind for some people. Let me take a call on this, even though we didn't get to it. Alexis in Jackson Heights, you're on WNYC. Hi, Alexis.

Alexis: Hi, Brian. Can you hear me?

Brian Lehrer: Yes.

Alexis: Great. Longtime listener, first-time caller. I'm very glad to be on the show to ask this question. I'm calling from Jackson Heights, Queens. I'm a supporter of Zohran Mamdani. I ranked him number one. I've canvassed for him. I am, however, concerned, given all the talk about poverty and all kinds of economic inequality issues facing our city, that I haven't heard him or really any other candidates talk about these billionaire oligarchs who are taking over our land, public land in the case of Flushing Meadows Corona Park to build casinos, which as we know, casinos prey on the most vulnerable among us.

This is a working-class community here. Jackson Heights, Corona, East Elmhurst. The promise of jobs is certainly flashy and something that people definitely can put their faith in. There's a really dark underbelly to this, and the fact that this is public land that a billionaire claims to want to invest his own $8 billion worth of money when we don't have subways that function properly, we don't have schools that are fully funded. I'm a public school parent. This is a really, really top-of-mind issue for me and many of my neighbors. I'm just curious what candidate Mamdani thinks about this, and hoping, with his messaging about fighting the oligarchs, that we get this focused on. Thank you so much.

Brian Lehrer: Alexis, thank you for your call. Liz, do you know? It's not something that I prepped for, so I don't know if you've covered it. Is this breaking out, the casinos as an issue in the mayoral race generally? Do you know if Mamdani took a particular position on the one for there around his district?

Elizabeth Kim: It has not broken out as an issue, not during the primary. I haven't heard it come up a lot now on the campaign trail. Mamdani has been asked about it. He has expressed his opposition to casino development in New York City in general. I think the problem for these candidates, or maybe it's a way for them to punt it, to be honest, is that it's already in motion and it's not up to them. You could argue that if a candidate were to become outspoken about it and to make this an issue, perhaps that's a way they could gain more support.

Brian Lehrer: All right. Before you go, on the Trump story, which we know that both the Cuomo and Mamdani camps were listening very closely to how our exchange on that would go, is this politically important now, or potentially, as far as you could tell? For listeners who haven't seen this story yet, it broke yesterday in the New York Times. They say Trump is considering intervening in the campaign in some way to prevent Mamdani from getting elected, or try to help prevent that, and possibly by somehow intervening on behalf of Andrew Cuomo as an alternative.

The story says that Trump and Cuomo spoke recently, and they are both either denying that or saying they haven't spoken in some time, which isn't quite a denial. Could this be good, Liz, for either candidate, Cuomo or Mamdani, or is it all palace intrigue, as the Cuomo camp called it in a statement?

Elizabeth Kim: I think it could be beneficial to Mamdani. You already see him. He immediately seized on it as soon as that story was published, and he issued both a statement and talked about it with reporters. The reason is because Trump is not popular in New York City. He's not popular with voters. For Mamdani, this is an opportunity. For Mamdani and his supporters, this is an opportunity to try to push other Democrats toward consolidation and towards endorsing him.

We were talking about this yesterday, Brian, about whether or not, does it really matter if a Senator Chuck Schumer endorses Mamdani. This idea that does it move someone in the race to think, "Oh, Senator Chuck Schumer, he's endorsing this candidate, so maybe I should." I was thinking about it a little bit, and I think what it does do, though, is if someone of the stature of a Senator Schumer comes out and stands with Mamdani, I think it amounts to further repudiation of Andrew Cuomo, and it really blunts his path. That's why I think the consolidation is important for Mamdani.

For other Democrats, like an AOC, like an Elizabeth Warren, they argue that consolidation around Mamdani is important for the future of the party, that this is a path forward, and we have to look at this race as a model for Democrats.

Brian Lehrer: WNYC's Liz Kim. Read her stuff on Gothamist or hear it on the radio. Listeners, thanks for your input. I'll throw one more in here. It's really a thread of texts, Liz, from several people who are asking for a show covering the casino proposals explicitly. One listener writes, "Especially the Coney Island one that no one wants." Obviously, this is an issue in various places in the city. Did Mayor Adams just--

Elizabeth Kim: We should mention that Jessica Ramos made that a big issue. I mean, she came out really hard against the fight to get a casino in her district, which would be in that city field area.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, we promise a segment explicitly on the casinos. Liz, thanks a lot.

Elizabeth Kim: Thanks, Brian.

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