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Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning again, everyone. Coming up later this hour, because we all deserve it at the end of a week like this, "Weird Al" Yankovic on the occasion of the release of a new song and video. With us now, Brooklyn Congressman and House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries. Congressman, we always appreciate when you come on with us to address your local constituents and also our listeners around the country. Welcome back to WNYC.

Congressman Hakeem Jeffries: Good morning, Brian. Great to be with you.

Brian Lehrer: Let me start by just asking you directly, do you think your best shot at defeating Donald Trump is with or without Joe Biden?

Congressman Hakeem Jeffries: I've made clear that President Joe Biden, Vice President Harris, the Biden-Harris ticket, along with Democrats in the House and the Senate have an incredible track record of support throughout the country based on what we've been able to accomplish to date. We, of course, have to continue to articulate a compelling vision for the future designed to make life better for everyday Americans. We need to articulate that in the boldest manner possible. If we're successful in doing so, led by President Biden and, of course, the Democratic effort in the House and the Senate, then I believe things will certainly work out for us in November.

Brian Lehrer: Is that a Yes? You're best off with Biden as compared to him dropping out?

Congressman Hakeem Jeffries: The ticket that exists right now is a ticket that we can win on. There, of course, is work to be done. That, in fact, is the case because we are an evenly divided country. That has been the reality of the political environment that we have confronted in cycle after cycle after cycle. That said, we were able to win the House back in 2018.

President Biden won the presidency and defeated Trump in 2020. At the same time, we were able to regain control of the United States Senate in 2020. We overperformed expectations dramatically in 2022 and held the governorships in places like Michigan and Pennsylvania and Wisconsin and Kansas and flipped the governorship in Arizona. Then we came back in 2023.

We're able to successfully hold the governorship in Kentucky. We were able to win the Reproductive Freedom Amendment to the Constitution in Ohio. We won decisively in the purple state of Virginia and then, in 2024, had a special election where Tom Suozzi was able to flip a seat and dramatically change the dynamics on the ground here in New York State, so that is a winning track record of success for us to build upon.

Brian Lehrer: Does that mean you don't believe the polls that are coming out and being much discussed that show with Biden at the top of the ticket, the House and Senate are at risk for Democrats, and also that Biden himself might lose even in some traditionally blue states or at least recently blue states. Virginia is named, Colorado is named, New Hampshire is named, Minnesota is named. Do you discount those polls?

Congressman Hakeem Jeffries: No, it means we have a fight on our hands. I think what is important, however, to understand is that we are operating in an electoral environment, of course, where this is a closely-divided electorate throughout the country. However, we've had tremendous success cycle after cycle after cycle over the last several years to build upon. There's a reason for that. Part of the reason is the fall of Roe v. Wade.

Clearly, Democrats believe in a woman's freedom to make her own reproductive healthcare decisions. The extreme MAGA Republicans want to criminalize abortion care and impose a nationwide ban. That has made a difference, their extremism as it relates to issues like Social Security and Medicare, which they want to end as we know it, whereas Democrats want to strengthen and protect Social Security has made a difference.

Our track record of accomplishments in delivering real results for the American people, whether that's around infrastructure or bringing domestic manufacturing jobs back home to the United States of America, dropping the price of insulin to $35 a month for millions of Americans, passing gun safety legislation for the first time in 30 years, that will save lives. Of course, the largest investment in combating the climate crisis in the history of the world will make a difference. That said, this is a tough electoral environment.

We've got to take the concerns that have been raised by the American people, by members of Congress and others seriously across the board. I do believe that we can win. The reckless and reprehensible and rambling Republican National Convention over the last few days, thank goodness, that long national nightmare that was occurring in Milwaukee is over, also is going to provide a foundation for us to compare and contrast the Democratic vision for making a difference in the lives of everyday Americans and what the Republicans want to do, which is to turn back the clock

Brian Lehrer: On some of what you just raised about the Republicans, Trump is running explicitly on no federal ban on abortion. He and the Republican platform say specifically no cuts to Medicare and Social Security. Does that neutralize some of that criticism for the 2024 election cycle?

Congressman Hakeem Jeffries: Let me be as clear as I can on this issue. Republicans are lying to the American people. It is in the DNA of the Republican Party, led by the former president, to strip away reproductive freedom from the women of America. That's not hypothetical. They've done it. You had Republican justices who sat before the United States Senate and told the country that they believed that Roe v. Wade was settled law, and then turned around the first opportunity they got to end Roe v. Wade and strip away a woman's freedom to make her own reproductive healthcare decisions for millions of Americans.

Now, they want to finish the job. For decades, it's been part of the Republican plan to end Social Security and Medicare as we know it in exchange for doing things like big tax cuts for the wealthy, the well-off, and the well-connected. Are we to believe that overnight, they have changed their perspective? Of course, they have not. They are lying because they know that these are issues that have hurt them electorally over the last several years, and so they're trying to run away from their position. They can run, Brian, but we are not going to let them hide.

Brian Lehrer: My guest is Brooklyn Congressman and House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries. The Washington Post reported yesterday that you and Senator Schumer, in separate private meetings with President Biden last week, told him that his continued candidacy imperils the Democratic Party's ability to control either Chamber of Congress next year. It's different than what you've been saying in this conversation so far. Will you confirm that report or do you have that concern?

Congressman Hakeem Jeffries: It was a private conversation that I had with the President of the United States of America and it will remain private. As I indicated in my letter to my House Democratic colleagues, we had an extensive period over a few days to discuss the heartfelt concerns and perspectives and conclusions about the path forward. I communicated the full breadth of what we discussed amongst ourselves as a House Democratic Caucus family. I did it in a private meeting with the President of the United States of America. The contents of that meeting will remain private. That is the right thing to do with anyone, certainly with the President of the United States of America, who I tremendously respect and who has done a great job on behalf of the American people.

Brian Lehrer: Then here we are with all this indirect language going around like some of what you've been saying or at least inconclusive about expressing concerns and leaving at that and keeping private conversations with the President private, which I understand, but no conclusion from you. At what point do you owe your Brooklyn constituents and as leader of the country, a position like some other elected Democrats have taken one way or another?

Congressman Hakeem Jeffries: Well, I think as has been repeatedly said, including by former President Barack Obama, the decision is one that can be made by only a single individual, the President of the United States of America, who had an incredible 50-plus year career in public service that includes the last three years in terms of legislative accomplishments, which are transformational, and incredible leadership on the global stage.

That's the reality of the situation that we are in. President Biden is correct when he says that he went through a primary process and 14 million or so voters gave him the Democratic nomination. It's his decision to make. I think as members of Congress, in both the House and the Senate, of course, we represent our individual, our constituents throughout the communities that we are privileged to serve.

In that regard, and I'm back home and Brooklyn was in Brownsville earlier today, of course, I'll continue to have conversations with my constituents to get their perspectives about the challenges that we face in the community, in the city of New York, in the country, and will do my best to represent their hopes, their dreams, their aspirations, their fears, their concerns, their anxieties, and the passions of the people that I serve.

Brian Lehrer: Is there a deadline by which with the Democratic convention scheduled to start on August 19th that you think President Biden has to make a decision one way or another?

Congressman Hakeem Jeffries: Here's what I think. It's important for us, particularly in the immediate aftermath of the Republican National Convention, to drive home a message that what the former president and the current Republican nominee would like to do is turn back the clock on the progress that we as Democrats have been able to make on behalf of the American people.

Project 2025 will essentially end America in many ways as we know it, including by doing things like detonating Social Security and Medicare, trying to drive a nationwide abortion ban into law, and ending the Department of Education, which is an explicit part of Project 2025. We also know that Project 2025 would try to roll back many of the civil rights gains that have been made over the last several decades because they simply are not interested in diversity and equity and an inclusive American society, which I believe are American values that they want to undermine. I do think at this moment, Brian, we've got to drive home that message.

Brian Lehrer: We're doing plenty of coverage on this show of Project 2025 and its various chapters, but the state of play on the Democratic side is still that you have people like Senator Tester coming out publicly yesterday and saying, "The President should drop his bid." You have people like Senator Bernie Sanders coming out with his New York Times op-ed this week saying, "Enough. Everybody should just stop this conversation and get on with it because it's hurting the party." Unless everybody gets on the same page, meaning the weight of the pressure to drop out gets to the President or everybody else stops talking about it, presumably it's going to hurt the party.

Congressman Hakeem Jeffries: Well, here's--

Brian Lehrer: Go ahead.

Congressman Hakeem Jeffries: Yes, it's a great question, Brian, but here's the good news. We are all on the same page in terms of moving forward in a way that lowers housing costs for the American people in the price gouging that everyday Americans have been subjected to, grows the middle class, defends democracy, and fights for things like a woman's freedom to make her own reproductive healthcare decision. We are on the same page in terms of the agenda moving forward.

We are also all on the same page as it relates to pushing back against the extreme MAGA Republican efforts to turn back the clock on America to hurt working families, hurt children, hurt veterans, hurt the middle class, and, of course, hurt older Americans. We are unified in that regard. That is what will continue to drive our ability forward in terms of taking back the House, holding the Senate, and making sure that we win the presidency on November 5th.

Brian Lehrer: What do you think about the idea that's in play of taking a remote roll-call vote of the delegates weeks before the convention to confirm the President's nomination? Some people are objecting to that as highly undemocratic and it also has a bad look if you don't do it in person at the convention.

Congressman Hakeem Jeffries: Well, the DNC has the ability to determine its own rules moving forward. What I'm most concerned about in that regard is getting a full understanding of how do we ensure that the Democratic nominee is on the ballot in all 50 states. There is a concern, particularly as it relates to Ohio as I understand it, that Republican gamesmanship may try to prevent our nominee from being on the ballot in November, which will hurt us electorally and which some of the extreme MAGA Republicans will do everything possible to bring about. In that regard--

Brian Lehrer: I thought the Ohio issue was resolved and you don't need to take an early remote vote to deal with that, is that wrong?

Congressman Hakeem Jeffries: Well, here's my understanding that there's some ambiguity in that regard as to whether this has to be done by August 7th or by the end of the month. Because though Ohio changed the law and pushed it back to September 1st to guarantee ballot placement, the law doesn't take effect until September 1st. I think the lawyers are looking into this to make sure that we have all the available information that is in front of the DNC, so it can make the best possible decision.

Because I think regardless of what one thinks about, the best way to move forward in terms of the top of the ticket, the House, the Senate, what we all, I think, can agree upon is that we need to make sure we're on the ballot in every single state, including Ohio where we've got three congressional districts that are in play and an all-important Senate seat that's in play as well.

Brian Lehrer: Last question. After the assassination attempt last week, President Biden and House Speaker Mike Johnson called on both parties to turn down the temperature in American politics. I had a Republican congressman from Long Island, D'Esposito, on this week and asked him what he would say to his own party in that respect. He wouldn't say anything. He would only tell the Democrats what he thought they should do. Do you have any specific ways that you think your party needs to do that?

Congressman Hakeem Jeffries: Well, I think that I agree with President Biden who gave a unifying address from 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue as opposed to the divisive address that was given by the former president at the Republican National Convention yesterday that this is a democracy. We can agree to disagree, but we should agree to disagree without being disagreeable with each other. That's something that we've tried to do as House Democrats from the very beginning of this Congress.

We have repeatedly found bipartisan common ground with our Republican colleagues in order to make life better for the American people and to solve their problems, to avoid a catastrophic default on our debt, to keep the government open, to fund Ukraine, and to make sure that we were taking care of our national security interests. Our promise to the American people is that we will continue to put people over politics, find that bipartisan common ground whenever possible but, at the same time, push back against Republican extremism whenever necessary.

Brian Lehrer: Congressman Jeffries, we always appreciate when you come on with us and thanks at this fraught moment for giving us some time.

Congressman Hakeem Jeffries: Thanks so much, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, we'll open up the phones for a few minutes now following Congressman Jeffries' appearance for your reactions, 212-433-WNYC. Call or text. The basic question is still in play. Should Biden stay or should he go and has anything affected your opinion about that since the debate? His various media and campaign appearances, his having COVID now, anything at all that has affected your opinion in the three weeks since the debate? 212-433-WNYC.

Beyond that, how do you think the party is handling it? Is Jeffries, who's got a big job leading 200-plus House Democrats, doing the right thing by being as non-committal in public as he was here just now? Is the idea of a remote roll-call vote to confirm Biden as the nominee weeks before the August 19th convention start appealing to you, offensive to you? Anything else or anything else you want to say now as this process drags on? You just heard what Congressman Jeffries has to say, House Minority Leader Jeffries has to say as of this moment. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. Jasmine in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. Hello, Jasmine.

Jasmine: Hi there, Brian. How are you?

Brian Lehrer: Okay, what you got?

Jasmine: Well, I don't believe Mr. Jeffries really gave a compelling or direct answer to should Joe Biden stay in the race. I am a registered Democrat. It seems to me that since the debate, Joe Biden and the Democrats have been in retreat and hiding. You don't hear anything but the NATO message while Trump is screaming on a megaphone with divisive rhetoric. Still, after even the assassination attempt, I didn't see a change in his behavior or his rhetoric whatsoever. Joe Biden is not the person who can deliver the Democrats message effectively. We all knew Joe's age two years ago. Why didn't the Democrats have a strategy in place or an alternate plan? Now, they're scrambling last minute. It's infuriating. Thank you.

Brian Lehrer: Jasmine, thank you very much. Liz in Inwood, you're on WNYC. Hello, Liz.

Liz: Hi. Thanks for taking my call. I am with Joe Biden 100%. As the previous caller said, we all knew how old he was. We've always known how old he is. I think he's doing a great job as president. I agree with Bernie. We all need to shut up and move on. Joe Biden is the candidate. I am 100% behind him. We have to stop talking about this. The one thing that we saw last night is a very united party in the Republicans. I think we should take a page from them and be in agreement with each other as a party that this is our candidate and move on. I'm going to Pennsylvania next month to knock doors if anybody wants to join me.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you. Thank you very much. Geo in Queens, you're on WNYC. Hello, Geo.

Geo: Hi, good morning. I just want to say, as clear as the congressman is, Biden will be unclear. He just cannot deliver that message. What people will see is a very old man who stutters and can't get his words out. Even though I think his mind is clear and sharp, he can't get it out. Since we're a country that's in love with youth, an old man up there who can't deliver this message and doesn't have the teeth, the way Donald Trump has the teeth to make the points, it's going to make us lose the election. That's my fear. He just can't do it physically. That's what people see and that's what people are going to react to.

That's the bottom line really. People just see an old, doddering, stuttering man who cannot deliver the messages in his head. He has a lot of good things in his head. He just can't get them out. Why isn't someone like the congressman running? Why isn't someone that has teeth and has, should we say, the gumption to say all the things that Trump says in a way that makes sense to the American people? Democrats always shoot themselves in the foot, always. They always talk in abstract terms. They don't talk in concrete, clear terms that people can understand. That's part of the problem as well. Thank you.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you, Geo. Robert in Manhattan, you're on WNYC. Hi, Robert.

Robert: Yes, hi. I thought you had an excellent back-and-forth and your questions were on target, but then as soon as congressman left, you characterized the conversation in a different way. You characterized it as, "He didn't give me an answer," that he's still not answering the questions. It's the same thing when I was watching the George Stephanopoulos interview, but he gave you an answer.

His answer was, "It's up to Joe Biden." His answer was, "Why don't we stop talking about whether he should leave or not and start focusing on his record?" His record is very clear. The media, not you necessarily, but the media in general just focuses on Trump and focuses on whether he should leave or he should stay. No one seems to be addressing the record that the man has and the answer that it's up to him. Just leave it there and move on to the record. That's my point.

Brian Lehrer: What do you say to the previous caller who was concerned that Biden has the record, Biden has the mental capacity to lead and do the job, but he doesn't have the capacity to get the words out of his mouth effectively, and that's going to lead to losing to Trump?

Robert: Well, number one, there are plenty of prominent Democrats just like you just had on the radio just now that can express those ideas very clearly. If people don't want to listen to them, they don't want to listen to them whether it was President Biden expressing them or not. Yes, it's difficult, but the record is there. Just focus on the record and the media most importantly to start focusing on the record because they obviously are not.

When you have this Republican convention where they say, "Oh, we're going to bring wages up and bring inflation down," well, Joe Biden has already done that. No one seems to point that out. The figures are all there. Inflation went up 21%. Wages went up 24%. What is the point here? Can he express his words that are in his head? He's already expressed them by implementing policy. Policy is there. The media should start focusing on the accomplishments and not just dwelling on whether or not he should stay or go. That's my point.

Brian Lehrer: Robert, thank you very much. Peter in Centerport, you're on WNYC. Hi, Peter.

Peter: Hi, Brian. Thanks for taking the call. I guess I have a larger question, which really is, I guess, for three years, maybe close to four years, there have been concerns about his health, his ability, his mobility, all these things wrapped together. The public was told, "Don't worry about it. He's fine." Now, if at this moment, the decision is made to remove him from running, how does that reflect back on the party after saying this for three, four years that, "Everything is fine, nothing to see here"? Now, all of a sudden, you're pulling the top of the party out. Was this all a lie? Were we not told the truth? I would like to hear a response to that.

Brian Lehrer: This is why it's a story whether people like the last caller wanted to be or not. Certainly, for our part, we spend more time on policy. By far, we were talking about Republican lack of inflation policy with Charlie Sykes in the previous hour. We can't look away from the fact completely that the Democratic Party is in crisis right now.

There are people apparently reportedly, including Jeffries himself, who are going to the President and saying to him that his continued presence on the ticket imperils not just the presidential election but congressional control of the House and Senate. You have people every day, Adam Schiff one day. Yesterday, Senator Jon Tester. Yesterday, it got revealed that Jamie Raskin wrote a letter to the President, saying that he should drop out or they're going to lose. This is actually happening. It's actually happening behind the scenes. They have to resolve it. We'd be irresponsible if we didn't cover that as well, I think.

Peter: Agreed.

Brian Lehrer: Peter, thank you very much. Renee in the Bronx, you're on WNYC. Hi, Renee.

Renee: Oh, can you hear me?

Brian Lehrer: I can hear you.

Renee: Oh, thank you. It's so nice to be on and I appreciate all the efforts that you're putting on behalf of the election. I just wanted to say that I'm 85 years old. My brain works beautifully. Senior people are considered wise people. I consider myself wiser, better than I've ever been before, even though my body is not quite 100% up to it. If people hear President Biden talk and hear him talk about all of the issues and what he's accomplished as opposed to absolute nothing coming from the Republican, I think that people should concern themselves with not voting for Donald Trump no matter who the person is. Now, I have to say that I was a school teacher. There was a time when I looked at my students and said, "I don't belong here anymore. I have to leave it up to the younger ones." I remember Ruth Bader Ginsburg, she chose to stay on as a member of the-

Brian Lehrer: Supreme Court justice.

Renee: -judiciary as opposed to leaving for the good of her party. Republicans elected to the judiciary instead. I think that Joe Biden has to look into what is the good for the party and it's very, very difficult. The fact that he made that mistake in the debate had to do with the fact that-- What is his name? Donald Trump, excuse me, is a big bully and he bullied him.

I was watching and CNN did a very poor job of monitoring that debate because they allowed Donald Trump to keep referring back to his opponent as opposed to answering any questions. They never interrupted him. They never said, "You're off topic." At the very end, they actually said, "Your time is up," to Joe Biden. I didn't hear them say that to Donald Trump. We have to get Donald Trump out of office. That's it.

Brian Lehrer: Renee, thank you very much. Renee in the Bronx is going to get the last word on this today. Brian Lehrer on WNYC. "Weird Al" Yankovic, we all deserve a visit by "Weird Al" Yankovic at the end of a week like this, right after this.

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