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Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning, everyone. Brooklyn Congressman and House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries will be with us in just a minute. Yesterday, he released a 10-point plan to counter what he called the far-right extremism that's being unleashed on the American people by the Trump administration and the Republican Congress, including what he calls "a scheme to cut taxes for their billionaire donors and wealthy corporations while sticking working-class Americans with the bill."

What's making the most news from his plan so far is his point number one, which says, "Any effort to steal taxpayer money from the American people and Medicaid as we know it or defund programs important to everyday Americans as contemplated by the illegal White House Office of Management and Budget order must be choked off in the upcoming government funding bill, if not sooner."

Now, some news analyses are taking that to mean it might be the Democrats this time who use their votes in Congress to threaten a government shutdown, it's usually the Republicans who do that, when the current budget bill expires on March 14th. We'll ask Leader Jeffries about that, but I also want to just let you know a few other things that you might be interested in from this plan that we'll ask him about time-permitting.

Jeffrey singled out a few of the things that Elon Musk has been doing in conjunction with Trump. Without mentioning Musk by name, Jefferies accused the administration of "unlawful access to the payment system that contains highly confidential and personal information related to Social Security and Medicare recipients, taxpayers, households, nonprofits, businesses, and federal contractors," that apparently refers to Musk, and the report in WIRED that he and a group of 19 to 24-year-old techies working for Musk have taken control of the payment system.

Finally, in an indication of just how many fronts he feels they need to fight on at the same time, Jeffries also wrote about fighting what he called "unlawful executive actions," including but not limited to ending birthright citizenship, the firing of inspectors general, terminations of federal civil service employees, the purge of the FBI, and the suspension of funds appropriated by Congress. Jeffries wrote there are currently more than 20 different lawsuits challenging at least 11 executive orders. With that as background, Brooklyn Congressman and House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries joins us now. Leader Jeffries, we always appreciate when you come on with us. Welcome back to WNYC.

Hakeem Jeffries: Good morning, Brian. Great to be with you.

Brian Lehrer: Let's start on that point number one from your 10-point plan. Are you, in fact, threatening a kind of Democrat-led government shutdown next month to stop the Republicans from trying to shut down the government in specific ways of their own?

Hakeem Jeffries: No, we continue to try to find bipartisan common ground as it relates to funding the government. We are the party of making sure that government and its needs from a spending perspective are met so we can meet the needs of the American people in terms of their health, their safety, our national security, and the economic well-being of everyday Americans, but we must also understand that Republicans have the House, the Senate, and the presidency.

They claim to have a big historic mandate. It is their responsibility to make sure that government continues to function. Democrats are willing to find the bipartisan common ground necessary to keep the government open, but the constitutional power of the purse of the United States Congress must be respected. We can reach a funding agreement. That funding agreement could be signed into law by the President.

Then they turn around and ignore it the very next day because that is what is happening right now. Lawfully appropriated funds authorized by Congress, which should be spent on behalf of the American people, have been frozen. I communicated to House Republican leaders that as we discuss the upcoming funding agreement, we have to make sure that Congress's power of the purse is respected and the law is complied with by this administration.

Brian Lehrer: Since you don't have the majority in the House, would you contemplate a kind of strange bedfellows' alliance with the very conservative Freedom Caucus members in the GOP who generally vote no on spending measures?

Hakeem Jeffries: Well, with respect to the parade of horribles that's being unleashed on the American people, all it takes is three Republicans in the House of Representatives to partner with Democrats to stop these bad things from happening legislatively. Only three, Brian, because right now, this narrow Republican majority is the smallest that any party has had since the Great Depression.

There are currently 218 Republicans in the House and 215 Democrats. That means that three enlightened Republicans can partner with us on any issue in order to get the best thing possible done for the American people. That can come from any part of the House Republican Conference. We just need people to step up to do the right thing for the American people.

Brian Lehrer: I see you had a telephone town hall for people in your Brooklyn district last night. What did you hear from your constituents?

Hakeem Jeffries: Well, people were very concerned about the assault on Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, the freezing of federal funds, and alarmed about the implications for themselves, their families, their friends, their neighbors, and their community. People were very pleased with the fact that at least temporarily, it's been frozen, but they understand that there's a continuing threat that is posed by the extreme MAGA Republicans to break the law notwithstanding funds that have already been allocated.

In particular, I think there was sharp concern around efforts to try to end Social Security or Medicare or Medicaid as we know it. I made clear, as I've constantly said, that House Democrats will defend Social Security, defend Medicare, defend Medicaid. All of these programs are important to people all across the land, in inner-city America, rural America, suburban America, exurban America, small-town America, and Appalachia.

Brian Lehrer: You said on Friday that one of the reasons that Aaron Judge is a great hitter is that he does not swing at every pitch. He waits for the right one and then he swings, so you said, "We're not going to swing at every pitch. We're going to swing at the ones that matter for the American people." This 10-point plan, and I only read a few of the items in the intro, makes it seem like you now feel like you do have to swing at more pitches with Trump doing so many things at once that you find so objectionable and more every day, or correct me if that's wrong, but have you broadened out from that Aaron Judge analogy since Friday?

Hakeem Jeffries: No, the letter doesn't mention Greenland. The letter doesn't mention Panama. The letter certainly doesn't mention the Gulf of Mexico and some of these items that have captured the attention of some in the media across the country, where reaction is consistently asked for here in the Capitol. We're going to keep our focus on the types of issues that will actually impact the immediate quality of life of the American people and present the danger of harm being inflicted upon the American people.

That's one of the reasons why we were so aggressive in confronting the illegal Office of Management and Budget federal funding freeze, which would have thrown children out of Head Start, stopped seniors from being able to receive life-sustaining meals connected to the Meals on Wheels program. Certainly, the freezing of Medicaid would have been devastating for people in nursing homes, for older Americans, for people who are disabled all across the country.

I think my point is that what we have to be prepared to do is to aggressively push back on the areas where the damage is being done in an immediate way to the American people as opposed to the symbolic outrages that take place that are thrown out there in an attempt to get Democrats and the American people to chase issues such as the renaming of the Gulf of Mexico.

Brian Lehrer: Let me ask you about one funding threat that's drawing new reactions in response in the last day. I don't even know if you've seen these yet, so tell me if you don't know anything about this yet. An example of a Trump funding threat that is apparently causing a legal confrontation between the Trump administration and the state attorney general in New York involves gender-affirming care for minors at the top private hospitals in New York City.

Quoting from the news organization, The City, "New York's largest hospital, NewYork-Presbyterian, has removed references to gender-affirming care for young people from its website and won't address questions about those services." This comes after NYU Langone and Mount Sinai apparently did similar things in the last few days. "Attorney General Letitia James warned health providers on Monday," The City reports, "that they're required by the state's non-discrimination laws to provide gender-affirming care." I'm curious if you have an opinion about what they call the standoff between the federal and New York State governments.

Hakeem Jeffries: I've not been briefed on that standoff as of yet. I do look forward to having a conversation with the Attorney General at the appropriate time. She is the top law enforcement officer in the state of New York. I assume that she is making clear that New York law needs to be complied with as it relates to any particular aspect of a protected class of citizens. Given my unfamiliarity with the conflict, at least as of this moment, I'll reserve any further comment.

Brian Lehrer: We'll come back to that another day. One of the other items on your 10-point plan that I mentioned in the intro is to fight what you called "unlawful access to the payment system that contains highly confidential and personal information related to Social Security and Medicare recipients, taxpayers, households, nonprofits, businesses, and federal contractors." When you say "unlawful access," is that a reference to Elon Musk and his group of 19 to 24-year-old aides as reported by WIRED, not having the official positions that would make it lawful?

Hakeem Jeffries: Yes, it's a reference to any effort, including the effort by Elon Musk and his cronies that have apparently been unleashed on the Department of Treasury, Bureau of the Fiscal Service Payment System that clearly violates the law. Lawsuits have already been filed and additional ones are being contemplated in that regard.

We will also introduce legislation to make it clear that this is an unlawful act and it must be stopped. When that legislation is introduced, we're going to challenge three of our Republican colleagues. All it takes is three to join with us in the House and in the Senate. All it takes is three to join with us, stop some of these bad things from happening, and we're going to make sure that all of these issues are fully and publicly aired and discussed in the halls of Congress.

Brian Lehrer: Well, the White House yesterday said Musk is serving as what they call a special government employee and that Musk was authorized by the new Treasury secretary to take control of the payment system. Now, NBC News says special government employees are asked to abide by conflict-of-interest requirements and ethics policies that are typically less onerous than they are for federal employees. As temporary positions, they bypass some of the disclosure obligations required of full-time roles. Apparently, this special government employee is a real designation. Does that make more of what he's doing with the payment system or anything else legal now in your opinion?

Hakeem Jeffries: It may be the case that Congress has to clarify that a special government employee does not qualify as an individual having access to highly confidential and personal information related to Social Security and Medicare recipients, taxpayers, households, nonprofits, businesses, federal contractors. This is information that is highly sensitive and should not be available to anyone other than a small number of career civil servants who are committed to upholding the law.

Brian Lehrer: What's your take on Musk's role here overall? Some people are focusing. We have some texts coming in right now asking various versions of the question, is Musk a threat to democracy as an oligarch with massive state power?

Hakeem Jeffries: I think that the question has to be asked, particularly in the Congress, who are House Republicans working for? Because they don't appear to be working for everyday Americans and for the American people. They certainly are not serving the best interests of their constituents either by supporting the parade of horribles that are being unleashed on the American people or remaining silent.

They don't even work for Donald Trump in that we are a separate and co-equal branch of government that should serve as a check and balance on any executive whether the President is in your party or not in your party. When you ask that question, "Who are you actually working for?" many of them appear to be working for Elon Musk. More importantly, what is clear to me is that they're working for their billionaire donors and wealthy corporations because, at the end of the day, all roads lead to the GOP tax scam.

What the Republicans want to do is enact massive tax cuts for the wealthy, the well-off, and the well-connected, for their billionaire donors and for wealthy corporations, and then stick working-class Americans with the bill. The way they want to do it is to end Medicaid as we know it, slash and burn nutritional assistance for children or for families or for seniors. They want to dramatically cut veterans' benefits and they want to take away economic opportunity from working-class people. They claim to want to work to make life better for working-class people, but they're doing the bidding of their billionaire donors.

Brian Lehrer: Let me ask you two more things before you go. Conservatives in politics and the media are criticizing you for something you said last week about how you plan to fight the Trump agenda. When you said we're going to fight it legislatively, fight it in the courts, and fight it in the streets, they seized on fight it in the streets as encouraging violence in the streets. This is the biggest story about you on conservative media the last week as I'm sure you know. What did you mean by fight in the streets?

Hakeem Jeffries: First of all, the notion that this group of extremists is going to lecture anyone in America about language when this is a group of people that supported the January 6th violent attack on the Capitol, which resulted in 140 police officers being seriously injured, and then supported the pardoning of hundreds of violent felons who brutally beat police officers and then were released back into communities all across America.

These are individuals with records of things like domestic violence, rape, and serious weapons offenses. They threaten the safety and the well-being of the American people. This group wants to lecture anyone in America about anything? Give me a break seriously in terms of anything that they have to say. They have zero credibility, Brian. Zero on any issue, particularly on this one. Now, the point that I will continue to make is this is an all-hands-on-deck moment.

We have to make sure that we are pushing back against far-right extremism in the Congress. We are, that we are pushing back against far-right extremism in the courts. We are. More than 20 different lawsuits have been brought related to more than 11 different unlawful executive orders and counting. They have unleashed an avalanche of righteous litigation. That will continue to be a part of our strategy. Of course, we have to push back in the community, at home, in our everyday interactions with the people that we are privileged to represent.

Brian Lehrer: I know you got to go. In just 30 seconds, a follow-up. People in your party are wondering, why aren't more folks out in the streets nonviolently protesting like they were so much at the beginning of Trump 1?

Hakeem Jeffries: Well, I think what has happened over the last few days, the last two weeks is that we have seen many corners of America rise up to push back against the overreach that has taken place and the silence of House Republicans. The silence of House Republicans. The nerve of these people who spent last year talking about driving down the high cost of living and have done nothing to do it. They could care less about the fact that America is too expensive.

We're going to continue to focus on how do we lower housing costs, how do we lower the cost of groceries, how do we lower childcare costs, how do we bring the American dream to everyone? This group talked about lowering the high cost of living, House Republicans, last year. Now, they're doing nothing about it. They ran away from Project 2025 last year. Now, all they are doing is implementing the far-right extreme Project 2025 agenda. I don't think the American people are going to stand for it. Certainly, House Democrats will not stand for it.

Brian Lehrer: Brooklyn Congressman and minority leader in the House, Hakeem Jeffries, thank you so much. We always appreciate when you come on.

Hakeem Jeffries: Thanks so much, Brian.

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