Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. We'll talk to Brooklyn Congressman and House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries in just a minute. I wonder if we might even call him the leader of the Democratic Party right now with Biden and Harris on their way out of power, Chuck Schumer having lost his position as Senate majority leader in this election and no other clear Democratic Party leader like the Republicans obviously have Trump. We'll get Leader Jeffrey's take on why the election came out the way it did, what new role he sees for the House Democratic minority now in the coming era of Republican control of all three branches of government, and even implications for his Brooklyn district and New York City generally, with Mayor Adams playing very nice with Trump right now on the prospect of mass deportation and other issues.

Hakeem Jeffries also has a new book out. It's an illustrated book for children and adults called The ABCs of Democracy. It's based on part of the speech that Jeffries gave last year when he first became minority leader. Before we have Leader Jeffries on live, here is that speech excerpt. This is only a minute and 15 seconds, but follow along here. Here's how you listen to this.

He'll be going through the Alphabet from A to Z, contrasting what he thinks his party is for and against.

Hakeem Jeffries: House Democrats will always put American values over autocracy, benevolence over bigotry, the Constitution over the cult, democracy over demagogues, economic opportunity over extremism, freedom over fascism, governing over gaslighting, hopefulness over hatred, inclusion over isolation, justice over judicial overreach, knowledge over kangaroo courts, liberty over limitation, maturity over Mar-a-Lago.

Normalcy over negativity, opportunity over obstruction, people over politics, quality of life issues over QAnon, reason over racism, substance over slander, triumph over tyranny, understanding over ugliness, voting rights over voter suppression, working families over the well connected xenial over xenophobia, yes we can over you can't do it and zealous representation over zero-sum confrontation.

Brian Lehrer: Brooklyn Congressman and House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries reciting his ABCs of democracy on the House floor last year. The text of that stretch now out as a book by that title, an illustrated book for children and the adults they take care of. Leader Jeffries, obviously a lot of news and issues to get to in very challenging times for your party and many of your constituents, but also congratulations on the book. Did you have a book in mind when you delivered those ABCs last year?

Hakeem Jeffries: I did not. Brian, good morning. It's great to be with you. It was something that I decided to do in the months thereafter just to lay out where we were as a country, our journey over our 248-year period and the values that have sustained us and will need to continue to sustain us as we move forward, certainly through turbulent and trying times.

Brian Lehrer: Let me use a few of those alphabetical comparisons to open the door to talking about the current situation. I'll replay now what you wrote for the letter W.

Hakeem Jeffries: Working families over the well connected.

Brian Lehrer: Working families over the well connected but the election results seem to show that so much of the working class in this country increasingly sees the Republicans as for them and the Democrats as the party of the elite or the well-connected, at least in ways that motivated their votes. Is there a lesson to be learned for the party as it relates to that letter W comparison?

Hakeem Jeffries: I think one of the clear lessons is that all of us in the Congress have to work incredibly hard to solve the challenges that working families and middle-class folks and those who aspire to be part of the middle class in New York and across the country have been dealing with not just for years, but for decades.

The deck has been stacked against working-class Americans for a variety of reasons, including poorly negotiated trade deals, the outsourcing of good paying American jobs, the significant decline in unionization, and of course the rise in automation. Those are forces that have made it more difficult for everyday Americans to achieve the American dream, which is why you have so many people who are struggling to live paycheck to paycheck.

Clearly, we have to do a better job, not simply of talking about those issues, but resolving them building upon some really good work that has been done by President Biden and Kamala Harris to bring domestic manufacturing jobs back home and to lower costs but it is clear that there's much more work that needs to be done.

Brian Lehrer: Does it suggest policy changes you would advocate or just messaging changes, especially with respect at the policy level to the cost of living or other economic issues which came out so dominant in the exit polls as the reason that a lot of swing voters who voted for Trump did, a lot of working-class people who voted for Trump did, or maybe even cultural ones that run somewhat along class or college, non-college lines? Policy changes or messaging changes, language changes from the Democrats?

Hakeem Jeffries: The high cost of living is clearly an issue that we need to spend a significant amount of time resolving while talking about it so that everyday Americans are clear that we do care about perhaps the most significant challenge that many working families throughout the United States confront.

Gas prices being too high over the last several years, food prices being too high, and of course, housing prices being way out of control and that's no longer a coastal issue that simply impacts people in New York and Boston or Los Angeles and San Francisco and we have to solve the challenges for working-class people who live in those cities.

As I traveled to more than 30 states over the last year or so, it's clear that the housing crisis is something that hits Americans all across the land. And so I think from a policy standpoint, we have to decisively act to lower costs. We're willing to partner with our Republican colleagues on the other side of the aisle if they are truly committed to addressing this challenge.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, your questions and comments welcome for House Minority Leader, Brooklyn Congressman, and author of the new book The ABCs of Democracy, Hakeem Jeffries, 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. You can call or text with a question for Leader Jeffries. Here's here's one more from The ABCs of Democracy that will replay the letter X now from your speech and from your book.

Hakeem Jeffries: Xenial over Xenophobia.

Brian Lehrer: So Xenial over xenophobia and I'll admit this one sent me to the dictionary, Congressman because I didn't know the word xenial X-E-N-I-A-L. But I see it means welcoming or, Merriam Webster says disposed to treat strangers and guests with generosity and cordiality. Is that how you would reset the terms of what Trump and others call the migrant crisis?

Hakeem Jeffries: Well, from the standpoint of what we need to do relative to the southern border, clearly, we have a border security issue that needs to be addressed. We need a strong border, a secure border, a safe border, and also a humane border at the same time. And the American people have spoken loudly and clearly in that regard.

We have a broken immigration system, we've got to fix it and we have to fix it in a comprehensive and strongly bipartisan fashion. What's interesting is that I think the way I would suggest we approach this challenge generally in the context of immigration, is that we should anchor our response in two principles that have been incredibly important to the American journey.

The first is the preeminence of the rule of law. And clearly there are concerns given the challenges that have existed at the southern border with respect to the rule of law and that dynamic with so many people entering the country illegally, though that number has declined significantly over the last six months it is a clear challenge that the American people want us to confront.

At the same period of time, we are, in fact, a nation of immigrants and we have to figure out how we can fix that broken immigration system and allow for lawful immigration to take place so we can continue to be a dynamic economy into the future.

Brian Lehrer: That issue also, though, seemed to contribute to the election loss. Yes, Biden cracked down eventually, and yes, Trump told Republicans in Congress to kill the bipartisan border bill but much of the voting public blames the Democrats for getting it to that point or letting it get to that point in the first place and they want to really seal the border and then the US can have a meaningful debate straight up about how much legal immigration there should be.

Should your party feel like it failed in this respect and changed course in any way?

Hakeem Jeffries: I think it will be important for us moving forward to make it clear that we want to secure the border and we want a border that is strong, that is safe, and that is also humane at the same period of time consistent with traditional American values but it should not go without observing that in New York, which I think arguably because of the situation that New York City has had to confront over the last few years, could be viewed as ground zero for the migrant crisis.

In New York State, we have flipped four Republican-held seats that were represented by Republicans and now will be represented in the new Congress by Democrats this year, with Republicans doing everything they can to weaponize the migrant crisis and the border security issue and it failed in a place where you might think it would be most resonant.

Clearly, as House Democrats, we have an ability to speak forcefully to the issue in a way that explains our position and allows voters to come down on our side. At the end of the day, that's not a hypothetical. It's not speculation. It happened in New York State.

Brian Lehrer: Let's take a related phone call. John in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. Hi, John. You're on with Hakeem Jeffries, House Minority Leader.

John: Good morning. Hello, Speaker Jeffries. I want to say two things.

Hakeem Jeffries: Morning, John.

Brian Lehrer: Maybe in two years Speaker but for the moment, Minority Leader. But go ahead.

John: I want to say two things. I completely agree with what was said about sealing the border but it's not sealing the border alone. It's also the asylum system, TPS, that whole thing. I should've started by saying I'm a registered Democrat, I'm a white male, and I voted for Kamala but it's also the asylum system is broken. The temporary protective status there's no the T in TPS stands for temporary, there's people that are here 15 years.

I hate to say it. I really agree, agree with Trump on a lot of the things that he says on immigration, but I can't stomach to vote for him so I didn't. The second thing is that you didn't address is cultural and I'm sorry if this is not PC, but we have to be straight. Democrats are losing white people, particularly men. I voted for Kamala, I'm a white male because I feel she was sane, stable and we would have civility but a lot of the people in my circle that voted for Obama, they all went for Trump.

The Democrats don't know how to talk to men, not just white men, but men in general.

Brian Lehrer: John, let me leave it there for time, but you hear what he's saying, Congressman?

Hakeem Jeffries: Yes. John, thank you for both of those observations. I think in the context of the asylum system, it is broken and anyone looking at the situation in a clear-eyed fashion will acknowledge that and we've got to fix it. There was legislation that was on the table that Democrats were prepared to support in the Senate and many of us in the House that was supported by President Biden and Vice President Harris that would've addressed some of the concerns that you've raised relative to the asylum system.

We still want to be a place that can be a refuge for people who are fleeing persecution but you have a situation in America where people can come into the country, claim asylum, and effectively be without a hearing for years, in some instances, five, six, seven, eight years. That is not how the system was originally designed.

Some of the most thoughtful and enlightened immigration reform advocates have clearly indicated that there's something that needs to be done to address it so that we can right-size the asylum system for the moment that we are in. In terms of the second question that you've raised, clearly part of the Republican strategy, as I think Charlie Kirk and others have now indicated post-election, is that they were going to emphasize masculinity and try to drive up the male vote.

White males, Latino males, and African American men. And they had some success clearly in doing that. I think our focus on fixing the broken American dream and making sure that it's clear that in America when you work hard and play by the rules, you should be able to provide a comfortable living for yourself, for your family, purchase a home, educate your children, have access to healthcare, go on vacation with your family every now and then, and of course, one day retire with grace and dignity.

That's the American dream that we're fighting for. That should benefit people of every race, certainly working-class Americans of every race and men who are working as hard as they can to try to get their family ahead, but because they are struggling to live paycheck to paycheck, can't even get buy on a monthly basis. That has to change.

Democrats, we believe we have the answers to try to address that and we want to do it decisively but clearly, there's been a disconnect in our ability to persuade a number of people throughout the country that we actually have the answers and are concerned about them. That's got to change.

Brian Lehrer: What do you expect to make it really concrete and local for undocumented immigrants in your district or in New York City overall with the coming mass deportation effort? And do you think it might have an impact on how this goes, that Mayor Adams is cozying up to President-Elect Trump in the various ways that he has?

I gather he went to hang out a little bit with Trump at the Ultimate Fighting event at Madison Square Garden this weekend. We played the clip last week of the mayor from his Tuesday news conference refusing to denounce mass deportation, saying some New Yorkers are against it, but some New Yorkers are for it.

Obviously, the President-Elect could affect the indictment against Mayor Adams once Trump gets into office, raising the potential conflict of interest question with respect to how much the mayor is going to do what some other mayors may do to protect people in the city from mass deportation. How concerned are you about that with respect to Adams and anything else you might actually come to New York in your district?

Hakeem Jeffries: I think in terms of the context of the immigration discussion, there are really three things that we need to tackle. Secure the border, fix our broken immigration system in a comprehensive fashion, and make sure there are legal pathways towards citizenship and when it comes to the deportation question, we have to make sure that we are prioritizing the deportation of felons, criminals and those individuals who present a risk to community safety.

That's the approach that I think would be embraced by the American people. If there is dramatic overreach in the context of this so-called effort at mass deportation, I think it will be rejected by the American people and will cause problems out of the gate, not just amongst New York City residents or those that I represent in Brooklyn, but Americans across the country.

Brian Lehrer: And on the mayor.

Hakeem Jeffries: Well, with respect to the mayor, I haven't had a conversation with him over the last few weeks, certainly subsequent to the election. As I've said about the mayor, he's entitled to the presumption of innocence, as is the case for any American in the context of the situation that he's facing coming out of the Southern District of New York related to the prosecution that will unfold over the next few months.

At the same period of time, I think it's incumbent upon the mayor to clearly demonstrate to the people of New York City that he can manage the matters that are important to the quality of life of New York City residents moving forward. That's a clear perspective that has been articulated by many of us in the congressional delegation, by the governor, and others and that burden will continue to be on the mayor moving forward.

Brian Lehrer: Should he maybe resign because the appearance of conflict of interest on such a central issue was such implications for so many New Yorkers that appearance of conflict of interest is just too strong?

Hakeem Jeffries: No, I don't think that resignation is appropriate at this point because of the presumption of innocence. At the end of the day, if any elected official can be charged by a prosecutor from any administration, whether that's a Democratic administration or Republican administration, and simply because an indictment is brought, a resignation is triggered, then effectively the presumption of innocence will be inapplicable to public servants.

At the same period of time, all of us who are in public office should be held to the highest possible standard and our focus should always be on doing the right thing for the American people that we're privileged to represent.

Brian Lehrer: One more thing on this. Do you support the Sanctuary City law the way it is? You said the priority if Trump wants the support of the American people should be on deporting convicted felons who would present an ongoing danger. The mayor says in the de Blasio years they made sanctuary city too broad, protecting too many people here illegally from immigration proceedings after they commit a longer list of crimes than were exempted before.

I guess there are stats that show the number of so-called detainer requests, meaning for people who've been convicted of crimes in New York City for immigration purposes, plummeted after that. Do you support the sanctuary city law the way it is, or is it too restrictive now?

Hakeem Jeffries: As I understand it, the Sanctuary City law both has local components as well as state components. I think it's a matter of state and city law and I leave it to both the mayor, but also the city council, the governor, and the state legislature to evaluate whether it needs to be right-sized at this moment in time, given what New York City has confronted over the last several years in terms of the volume of migrants who have been here in New York City. Now, New York City is a city that understands the importance of immigrants.

But again, I think this all goes back to the principle of how do we promote lawful immigration, attract the good people who want to be here and contribute to society, and get the bad people out who have been able to come into the country unlawfully and present a risk to New Yorkers and to people across the country.

Brian Lehrer: Jose in Woodside, you're on WNYC with Brooklyn Congressman and House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries. Hello, Jose. Jose, are you there? Do we have Jose in Woodside? We'll try to get back to Jose. Let me go on to this then on what you expect to have to fend off now as Minority Leader. I want to play you a clip of the speaker, Republican Mike Johnson, of course, saying what he had in mind, I think this was before the election, for if the Republicans took the House, the Senate, and the Presidency, which they now have.

Mike Johnson: We're going to have the most aggressive first 100 days agenda that anybody's seen in a modern era.

Brian Lehrer: Other than mass deportation, what are you expecting that you think you'll have to either work with him on or do your best to oppose?

Hakeem Jeffries: House Democrats are prepared to work with the incoming administration whenever and wherever possible in order to find the common ground necessary to solve problems for the American people, particularly as it relates to lowering costs and keeping us safe. At the same period of time, we will push back against far-right extremism whenever necessary.

House Democrats will protect Social Security, protect Medicare, protect the Affordable Care Act, protect the progress that we have made in terms of combating the climate crisis, and protect reproductive freedom and a woman's freedom to make her own reproductive healthcare decisions. Those aren't values that we will ever compromise on, but we do and are prepared to do what is necessary to find common ground to solve problems. One issue I think that--

Brian Lehrer: Do you think anything's coming on-- Trump, various members, certainly from the New York area, some of the Republicans and others say no, there will not be a national abortion ban that will get through Congress. Do you expect legislation along those lines or any new restrictions?

Hakeem Jeffries: Well, there's legislation that has been contemplated by many of the extreme MAGA Republicans for years in this regard, including in this very Congress and we will do everything necessary to stop a nationwide abortion ban from being enacted into law and it's something that we clearly have to monitor.

At the same period of time, we also are hopeful that what the incoming president said around restoring the state and local tax deduction, which the Republicans detonated and hurt middle-class New Yorkers in 2017 and that has continued to cost people hundreds if not thousands of dollars a year over the last several years, that we can work together to restore the state and local tax deduction fully for working-class people and for middle-class folks here in New York and across the country.

At the same period of time, the notion that sweeping change has been given as a mandate to House Republicans is belied by the facts. House Democrats are going to return 27 or 28 out of the 31 most vulnerable incumbents who are on the front line. 90% of our battleground, frontline incumbent members won re-election, notwithstanding the fact that the national tide turned against us.

We had five highly competitive open seats that we had to defend. Democrats won four out of those five and we've already flipped this year, eight Republican-held seats. In fact, we have defeated more House Republicans than House Republicans have defeated incumbent Democrats and so what the American people have said, at least in the context of the House, yes, we fell a few seats short and perhaps we can thank gerrymandering that was mid-decade and aggressive in North Carolina for costing us three seats.

That may ultimately be the difference between being in the minority and being in the majority but whatever one draws from the outcome in terms of an opinion, what is clear is that the American people have sent us an evenly divided House with a narrow Republican majority and they want us to work together to solve problems for hardworking American taxpayers and they don't want to see aggressive far-right extremism and overreach.

Brian Lehrer: Listener texts this question how can you protect all those things you say you will Mr. Jeffries? You're in the minority. What would you say to those listeners and others concerned with that?

Hakeem Jeffries: Well, throughout this current Congress, House Democrats have effectively been able to govern from the minority as if we were in the majority, in part because of the Republican chaos and dysfunction and extremism and civil war that is ongoing in the House Republican Conference.

As long as Democrats remain unified and as long as we are taking positions consistent with where the American people are at. The American people don't want to see a nationwide abortion ban. The American people don't want to see Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid detonated. The American people want to see the Affordable Care Act continue to thrive.

It's important to note that when Donald Trump first took office In January of 2017, there were 241 House Republicans at the time and only 194 Democrats and yet, working with our colleagues in the Senate, we were successful in stopping the repeal of the Affordable Care Act. If we stick together, we can deliver for the American people in a House that is far more evenly divided than during the first Trump administration.

Brian Lehrer: In our last minute, and I know you got to go. I'll let you say one more thing about your book and Leader Jeffries also has a new book called The ABCs of Democracy, which is based on part of a speech that he gave on the House floor last year. This is an illustrated book for children and adults. I'm going to replay one more from the speech that gave rise to the book, the letter K.

Hakeem Jeffries: Knowledge over kangaroo courts.

Brian Lehrer: Are you really allowed to do that? Pair knowledge with kangaroo court, a pronounced K, and a silent K. Is that really a.

Hakeem Jeffries: Well, on the House floor, you can take some liberties and I certainly endeavor to do just that. This is an illustrated book for people of all ages that hopefully captures the American values that have been important to the journey that we've been on as a great country and the greatest democracy in the history of the world for 248 years.

As we approach our 250th birthday on July 4th of 2026, in these challenging and trying times, facing a lot of turbulence at the moment, I think it's important to reflect upon what has gotten us to this point and the values that will continue to sustain us moving forward as a country. We can get through this moment. We will get through this moment and America will continue our march toward a more perfect union.

Brian Lehrer: Congressman, Leader Jeffries, we always appreciate that you come on with us and talk to your constituents in our core audience and our listeners around the country. Thank you very much.

Hakeem Jeffries: Thank you, Brian.

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