Title: How Veterans Feel About Pete Hegseth

Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning, everyone. Coming up this hour, we'll have a call in for Democrats on the way. The party is allowing the government shutdown to end. Do you think it's smart, or do you think it's weak? We'll play some clips. We'll take your calls. Also this morning we go live to the COP30 climate conference in Brazil, where the US is not participating. Some say better no Trump representative than a destructive one, but what can the conference achieve without the second biggest climate polluter?

First, today is Veterans Day. Thank you for your service, any vets or active duty military personnel listening right now. We want to invite any veterans listening right now to say what you think of the changes that President Trump and Secretary Pete Hegseth are bringing to the United States Military. 212-433-WNYC, 433-9692. Again, we want to invite any veterans listening right now to say what you think of the changes that President Trump and Secretary Pete Hegseth are bringing to the United States Military. 212-433-9692.

We'll have a guest on this in a second. Do you like renaming the Defense Department the Department of War? 212-433-WNYC. Also, in your experience in combat, if you are enjoying the Iraq or Afghanistan wars or even more recently, do you think the military was becoming too weak because it was becoming too woke? That's Hegseth's central argument; too weak because it became too woke. Was that your experience if you served in the last few decades or if you are currently serving today?

You don't even have to be a veteran. You can be active duty for this Veterans Day. Call in because we know you'll be a veteran someday. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. You can call or you can text. Do you like purging the department, purging it of any celebration of diversity? By the way, what do you think of the state of Veterans affairs per se in the United States? 212-433-9692. We'll talk to Paul Rieckhoff, head of the Independent Veterans of America and previously founder of the Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America. Paul Rieckhoff, in just a minute.

Here's a clip of Hegseth first for you veterans or active duty service members to react to, if you would like. One of his changes, as you know, is simply changing the name of the department from the Defense Department to the Department of War. Here is Hegseth, now called the Secretary of War, on that name change, speaking to military leaders at Quantico, Virginia in September.

Pete Hegseth: We have to be prepared for war, not for defense. We're training warriors, not defenders. We fight wars to win, not to defend. Defense is something you do all the time. It's inherently reactionary and can lead to overuse, overreach, and mission creep. War is something you do sparingly, on our own terms and with clear aims. We fight to win. We unleash overwhelming and punishing violence on the enemy.

Brian Lehrer: It's the Department of War. Veterans, do you like this better than the Department of Defense? How much do you accept or reject Hegseth's rationale there? 212-433-WNYC, 433-9692. As Hegseth made the contrast, he sees it as the Department of War, no longer the Department of Woke.

Pete Hegseth: This administration has done a great deal from day one to remove the social justice, politically correct, and toxic ideological garbage that had infected our department to rip out the politics. No more identity months, DEI offices, dudes in dresses. No more climate change worship. No more division, distraction, or gender delusions. No more debris. As I've said before, and will say again, we are done with that [bleep].

Brian Lehrer: Yes, we had to bleep that last word. You can figure out what it was. Maybe using that word as part of establishing tough guy cred. Do you pump your fist along with that as someone who served, or do you roll your eyes at what you might feel is obnoxious and performative macho? 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. You can call or text. Veterans, what do you make of all that based on your experience, and if you're active duty, a future veteran, what do you think of the changes the administration is bringing? 212-433-9692.

With us now on this is Paul Rieckhoff, a 911 first responder and Iraq War veteran who founded the group Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America. More recently he is founder and CEO of the group Independent Veterans of America, and because that's not enough, he is co-founder of American Veterans for Ukraine, and he hosts a podcast called Independent Americans. Paul Rieckhoff, we always appreciate when you come on with us, but after reading all your credits, I'm sorry we're out of time. This has been great.

Paul Rieckhoff: Good morning, Brian. Always great to be back with you. Happy Veterans Day to you and especially to veterans all across the city. I think today, maybe as a starting point, can be a contrast, I hope, to a lot of the toxicity and negativity and division that we've been hearing and in our politics and in this city. Veterans Day is an awesome time to be in New York City. We have the largest Veterans Day parade in the country. There are a lot of activities happening all across this city. I hope we can at least change the tone for one day and try to bring folks all across this city together.

Brian Lehrer: I hear you going to the parade. What do you expect, and how will you be participating?

Paul Rieckhoff: Cold. It's cold today, but as I say, it's always warmer than being overseas in a Humvee. That's the perspective we have. Having served, we try not to complain about the discomfort in the weather because we've seen a lot worse. I mean, the best part about the parade, Brian, every year is that it's like a combination of a birthday party, July 4th, and homecoming. Veterans come from all over the country because they know this parade happens. It really becomes an extraordinary gathering of so many different kinds of people.

The energy is positive. There's a lot of respect. There's a lot of teaching. It's kind of like a giant mobile classroom. That's what I expect every year at the New York City Veterans Day Parade. I think it's a model for how a city can work, a model for how our country can get along. I'm always honored to see the older generation especially, but unfortunately, there are fewer of them every year. I think we're seeing a real demographic shift this year, especially where most of the World War II veterans have been lost and the Vietnam vets are getting up there in age.

We got to maximize this time because our demographics are shifting pretty dramatically, and our population of veterans across this country is going to be cut in about half over the next decade and a half or so. It's more important than ever. I think, especially given the state of division and toxicity and negativity in this country right now, folks are nervous, they're worried, they're scared. Veterans Day can be a source of power and unity and inspiration. It brings everybody together. That's always my hope.

Brian Lehrer: You mentioned the World War II vets. I was thinking about them yesterday, getting ready for this, because we have had World War II vets who've called in on this show in recent years. By now, if you had to be 18 to get in in the last year of World War II, which would have been 1945, you would be 98 now at least. I don't know if we have any World War II vets listening even still. We have had a 100-year-old caller on the show, I think one time, at least a person who identified themselves that way. If there are any World War II vets, what do you think looking at the evolution of the Department of Defense now the Department of War? 212-433-WNYC. Here's an older vet, not that old, a Vietnam vet. David, in the West Village, around WNYC. Hi, David, thank you very much for calling in, and thank you for your service.

David: Hey, Brian, thank you. I just have just something quick. It's just that to give Hegseth any credit for brain activity should be featured on The Onion and not on your show. He's obviously is pandering to Trump. I think to change things to the Department of War and all of his machismo is nauseating for me. That's it.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you very much. All right, vets, who else from any generation? 212-433-WNYC, call or text, 433-9692. Paul Rieckhoff, you heard that caller. You heard my invitation to other callers. Let me ask you the first question I invited them in on directly. How do you feel about changing the name of the Defense Department to the Department of War?

Paul Rieckhoff: I think it's ridiculous. It's unnecessary, but it's entirely predictable and on brand and on plan for what Trump and Hegseth are trying to do, not just at the Department of Defense, but also at the Department of Veterans affairs and really all across America. I think maybe on Veterans Day, it's an important time to have a discussion about the fact that Trump's agenda, which I believe especially as an independent, is radical and out of the mainstream, has a tip of the spear.

The culture war is being led by Pete Hegseth at the Pentagon. Everything that they want to do in America has started with the Pentagon. That means Pete Hegseth himself. He was the first nominee up. He was unqualified, I think even disqualified. He was the most overtly and radical political nominee we've ever seen for the Department of Defense. He's been a culture warrior. That's really what he's prioritized over our defense, over our unity, over any kind of moderation or centrism.

You're seeing all of the downstream effects about that. I think what I would also warn folks is they're on plan. This has always been the plan. From the purge to their attacks on DEI to the overall posture change of this, not even hyper, but super-duper hyper, toxic, steroided out, ridiculous masculinity, it's not good for America. I think the Pentagon has always been a place where the partisanship stopped. We had thoughtful, pragmatic, honorable people, and we don't have that now.

I think that really should be more than an alarm bell. It should be where people focus their attention because not only are they waging culture war, they have cleansed the department of really any opposition. The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs are gone, senior generals are gone, and the purge has continued. Not only does it mean they can change the name, it means they can wage wars without any accountability, and they still have access to the nukes.

I think Veterans Day is an important time to come together, but also recognize that this Secretary of Defense is doing nothing, in my view, to bring us together. If anything, he's doing the opposite. We all have to stand strong, not as Democrats or Republicans or Independents, but as Americans, because this is completely out of the norm unacceptable. Also, Brian, not slowing down, the Democrats have been unable to stop Hegseth or Trump on just about anything. When I look at it, I see a focused strategy that is very much rooted in a radical and culture war driven politics that's on plan, and if anything, picking up steam.

Brian Lehrer: We mentioned World War II, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan. Listener writes, and I acknowledge it, "Please, in this segment, do not forget to mention the Korean conflict veterans. My father was one of them," writes that listener. Absolutely. Korean War veterans as well, of course, welcome to call in on your view of the changes that are coming to the Pentagon right now. Here's Ed in Brewster. You're on WNYC. Hi, Ed, thank you for calling in.

Edd: Hi, thank you for taking my call. I'm a Vietnam veteran. I was an officer in Vietnam. President Bone Spurs disgusts me, as does Hegseth with his phony macho stuff. Normally, I would have thought that renaming the Department of Defense to Department of War was a good move because the Department of Defense was a euphemism for what the military actually does.

In a sense, Department of War is true. That isn't why Hegseth is doing it. It's that phony macho stuff that he's promoting, which I think is quite dreadful. I've always had mixed feelings on Veterans Day because of the nature of the Vietnam War and so forth. This year, I'm particularly distressed by what's happening to the military on firing of generals who seem to be more interested in upholding the Constitution than in loyalty to Texas and Trump. All of those things are very annoying. When I took an oath, as an army officer, I took an oath to defend and support the Constitution, and that's serious. Trump and Hegseth are undermining that by creating a personal loyalty cult, if you will, and that's awful.

Brian Lehrer: Ed, thank you very much for speaking up. Interesting, Paul, that he said under other circumstances, he might have supported the name change to Department of War as Department of Defense was a euphemism, the caller said. In the Hegseth clip we played, he said, "We're training warriors, not defenders." As someone who was trained and fought in Iraq, did you ever think about war and defense as a duality or the name of the Defense Department as a euphemism?

I always took it as we want to show that our country is about defending ourselves, yes, but we don't want to be the aggressor and just make war, so Department of Defense, whether that was performative or not, are those things mutually exclusive?

Paul Rieckhoff: I think the evolution is something most folks who served in uniform know. We know it used to be called the Department of War, but it felt like a thoughtful, practical evolution and an understanding that the Department of Defense, which is what it's still technically called until there's a congressional change, was a spoke on the wheel along with state, and foreign aid, and diplomacy, and our economy, and so many other aspects of what makes America great and powerful.

It was an understanding that we weren't always leading with our guns. I still think that's the best approach. I think most people around the world think that that's the best approach. You have to find the right tool for the right job. I think that what we're seeing is an administration that wants to lead with its fist, wants to lead with aggression, and oftentimes disrespect, and I would even say dishonor. If there's a reminder on Veterans Day, I think it's an important reminder that we have to always fight for our values.

Some of us have bled and died for our values. This is a time where we are fighting for the soul of our democracy and redefining what it means to be American and what it means to be a New Yorker. Veterans Day is an important time, I think, for folks to show up, to come out in whatever way you can. Whether it's at the parade today or other parades happening across the five boroughs or even online. There's lots of organizing happening because I know a lot of folks are feeling frustrated, angry, scared, disconnected.

Veterans Day is a time where we need you, especially our veterans maybe who've been pushed aside or felt like they don't have a connection to this time. We need you now, especially, to communicate, to share your stories, to teach our values, and remind folks what this country is all about. I've also mentioned online, Brian, that today might be one of the most significant and first public appearances by Mayor Elect Mamdani since the election. It's always that way.

After Adams, after de Blasio, a week later is usually Veterans Day after the election. I think it's an important time for him to show if he can be a unifier. I would have loved to have seen Sliwa, Cuomo, Adams, Mamdani, all of them marching today. I don't know if we'll see that, but the reality is we have a very divided city. Mamdani got 50, just over 50% of the vote, and half the city didn't vote for him. That's happened in other places before. This can be a unifying moment and a symbolic moment where we can show that the real true guts of our country are not our partisan politics or the extreme parties. It's our veterans. It's the folks in the middle.

Brian Lehrer: Is the mayor-elect attending the Veterans Day parade today? Do you know?

Paul Rieckhoff: I haven't seen confirmation. I hope he will. Usually the mayor elect does, and we'll find out in the next half an hour or so as the ceremonies unfold. I'm not at the site right now, so I would defer to folks who were there, but I hope he's there. I think it's a great way to show that we are all New Yorkers and that we all can be united around something, even if it's only this. It's also an evolution that folks need to understand, Brian, because the Veterans Day parade wasn't always like this, especially around Vietnam times.

There was a veterans march. Vietnam veterans famously walked across the Brooklyn Bridge, and City hall did not welcome them. We have to remember that this was an evolution in understanding that the protest became a march and became a celebration, and that is a time for us all to come together as New Yorkers and to show the whole country that New York is a patriotic place. It's a unified place. It's a respectful and honorable place. We understand our values, and we'll fight for them, and we'll also celebrate them together, no matter who you voted for last week.

Brian Lehrer: With Paul Rieckhoff, an Iraq War veteran and, more recently, founder and CEO of the group Independent Veterans of America. Dennis in Montclair, you're on WNYC. Hi, Dennis.

Dennis: Hi. Just quickly to give you my a little of my background where I'm coming from. I didn't serve. I have three children. My son, the oldest, is an honorably discharged captain in the army, getting an MBA now to pursue a civilian career. My middle child is a daughter. She's currently a captain in the Army Reserves with an engineering company, although engineering is not her background. My youngest is an active duty instructor, a lieutenant in the Navy, which is the equivalent of a captain in the army, who's serving as an instructor at the power school in South Carolina, where all of the enlisted who are going to be nuclear engineering department folks and all of the officers who are going to serve on nuclear submarines or certain of the officers who are going to be in nuclear in the aircraft carriers all have to get through and graduate.

My youngest is the reason that I'm calling it for. She did her three years. She's on a two-year extension. She did her three years with one of the ballistic missile subs off the West Coast. I have to say that we brought women into our submarine service. It's very hard to get through a training program. Takes roughly two years of additional education after you're commissioned. Then for most kids, takes about 18 months on the submarine finish fully qualifying what they call their dolphin. It's a very, very rigorous program. The reason for my call is Hegseth's macho approach to training and the sort of picture that he's raising for the armed forces, I think could be encouraging behavior that you don't want and discouraging young women from serving.

I give a specific illustration, but every young woman officer who my daughter served with during those three years on the submarine was harassed, sexually harassed. I don't mean assaulted. I mean harassed as a result of being a woman. To give one example, they had a second lieutenant or an ensign-- I'm not sure. Well, second lieutenant, woman on the submarine was walking through the submarine and some enlisted guy slapped her in the ass. He thought it was a great joke. [crosstalk]

Brian Lehrer: Are you arguing that Hegseth's posture toward everything increases the chance that more women in the military will be harassed more?

Dennis: Yes, I mean, he's taking a very macho male attitude, which if you're an 18, 19, 20 year old enlisted fresh out of high school, that's the sort of behavior that that engenders.

Brian Lehrer: Dennis, I'm going to leave it there. Thank you for telling us the story of your kids serving in the military. What did you think as you listened to that call, Paul?

Paul Rieckhoff: It is a reflection of how Pete Hegseth has been extremely effective in his mission to serve Donald Trump and his agenda. Part of that includes turning this military into something that it's not supposed to be. Pete Hegseth, through his poor example, through his lack of honor and integrity and his tone and his policy changes, is not making the military a welcoming place for women, for people of color, for trans people, for gay people, for just about anybody who's not a white Christian man.

That is the optical portrayal, that is the policy tone, and that is the downstream effect. Women don't want to join this military right now. People of color don't feel they want to join this military. Trans people, obviously, don't feel safe in this military right now. The long term impact is, is not only are you driving them out of the military, you're stopping them from joining the military. Trump has always wanted Trump's army, Trump's military. Over time he's getting it.

He's getting more people who love Hegseth's shtick, who watch Fox News and soak all this up, and more and more reasonable folks who don't want to be politicized, who don't want to play culture war games, who don't buy his tone or even disrespectful approach, are not joining. I think that downstream effect is tremendous.

Brian Lehrer: Downstream effect is tremendous. I wonder if you have any data on recruitment so far because they're making the argument that now that the military isn't bogged down by "woke" and seems hostile to white men as they see it, that recruitment will be improved. Of course, we know who's going to be more likely and less likely to join, I guess. Do you have any data?

Paul Rieckhoff: I mean, so far the numbers appear to be solid in terms of meeting their goals. However, that doesn't account for quality, that doesn't account for diversity, it doesn't account for all the long-term impacts that we're talking about. You're getting the hardcores. You're getting people who love this and who have wanted to join a Trump-oriented military, and they're signing up, and you're still getting folks who want college money, who want benefits, who want training, who want all those other things.

They are demographically focused on Joe Rogan and Theo Von and Fox News. Even at the NFL Commanders game this weekend, Trump and Hegseth are focusing on their base, and their base is joining the military. Now, over time, we'll see what the diversity numbers look like. I think anyone living in America can understand what kind of environment they want to turn, and they are turning the Department of Defense into. I think it's important to note that's not good for our national security.

I think it's obvious, but diversity is a strength. We need to be representative of all people in our country. Democrats do join the military, and they need to feel welcome too. I think our enemies are celebrating. I think Putin likes to see this kind of division and the hollowing out and the isolation of our military, which is something we've been fighting for decades, and they are only making worse.

Brian Lehrer: Make your case that diversity in the military is a strength because elsewhere in the speech, Hegseth said explicitly, "People say diversity is our strength. Our strength is diversity. No, our strength is unity." Counterposing those two.

Paul Rieckhoff: They're not mutually exclusive. New York is maybe the best example of that in the world. We have the most diverse city. I think Queens is maybe the most diverse county in America. Look at how amazing it is on a very basic level. Do you want people who speak foreign languages or not? Diversity brings tactical and practical advantages like that. We need women who can talk to women. We need all the benefits that a diverse culture brings.

It's kind of counter to the very basis of what America is all about because it's supposed to be a place for everyone. The reality is everyone doesn't feel welcome in the military right now. New York can always be, I think, a counter to that and a powerful example of how unity and diversity is possible and is a sign of strength. I mean, look at this city after 9/11, the most diverse city in the country, maybe in the world, came together as one in a way that I haven't seen since and maybe we'll never see again. I think that he fundamentally either doesn't understand or has a different view of what America is supposed to be and what our military is supposed to be.

Brian Lehrer: By the way, listener texts, "Served starting 1960, women added safety because instead of using expletives, had to use clear language." Interesting. Daniel in Manhattan. One more call. Daniel, you're on WNYC. Hello.

Daniel: Oh, thanks for having me.

Brian Lehrer: Thanks for being here. I see you're an Afghanistan Iraq era vet. Where'd you serve?

Daniel: Oh, yes, I was North Iraq my first tour in 0910. I was south of Baghdad my second tour, Iraq in 1112, and then I was in RC South Kandahar, Afghanistan in 1314.

Brian Lehrer: Both fronts. What are you thinking?

Daniel: I just think it's crazy because out of coincidence you guys talk about unity, and my sisters bought me this pendant before my first tour said, "Join hand in hand, brave Americans all. By uniting we stand, by dividing we fall." It just goes. It's just only a testament to what you guys have been saying on the on the air. I was engaged to my husband a year before DOMA was repealed. I kid you not, five days before I went to Afghanistan on my third tour, we flew out to New York City the weekend before and we got married. We sealed the tie, the knot.

Even then, being active duty, as a gay male, you see the discrimination as clear as day. Like as your associate said, if you're not a white God-fearing Christian male, and guess what, that was a very, very factual. I won't say any of the slurs that were prominent and thrown around on the daily, but even as a gay man, if you don't-- We preach a few things in the army. There's cover and concealment. Cover is a physical barrier. Concealment's more like a bush.

Even as a gay man, proudly gay, I've been married to my husband 12 years now, and in the army, even living in that time before DOMA, whether it was don't ask, don't tell, after DOMA got repealed, it still wasn't welcomed. I mean whether I deployed with someone one times or three times, spent three years in the sandbox, and people would be offended because I was in love with a man as compared to a woman. The only people that understood that was the non-white Christian.

Brian Lehrer: Do you think that it got better over time? I don't know the last year you were in. What Hegseth is trying to change is what he says is the military bending over backwards too much to accept diversity.

Daniel: It didn't even accept it while I was in because mind you, I had to be a bro, even though I'm gay, and I own it, to fit in. At the same time, the what sealed the tie, pardon my vulgarity if it offends anybody, but I had a Chief Warrant Officer 3 in my Battalion Motor Sergeant, Sergeant First Class. We were out at PT. I was a Sergeant E5 at the time. Out in Afghanistan, they're doing their thing. They're men, checking out these women walk by, and they make the comment, "Oh, check out that girl bouncing." For me, I'm the very vulgar joker. As a dude walked by, I'm like, "Oh, look at the package bouncing that dude." They got offended. It's like, you know I'm married. I've deployed with you to Iraq twice. What is the actual disconnect or problem? If you can make a joke, but I can't reciprocate it.

Brian Lehrer: Daniel, thank you very much for your call. We really appreciate it and for your service. Paul, as we run out of time, I just want to acknowledge that we've been talking about veterans reactions to current military policy and not really about Veterans affairs per se. We're doing that elsewhere on the station throughout the broadcast day. Briefly, do you see this administration making a mark on Veterans affairs, which is what you really do full time, for better or worse in any way, compared to what came before?

Paul Rieckhoff: Dramatic and for worse. Everybody gets focused on Pete Hegseth, but there is a thunder and lightning parallel with an equally extreme culture warrior at the VA who is Secretary Doug Collins. He's a Baptist minister. He didn't recognize the validity of the election. He's always been against gay rights and equality for women, and he's ripping through the VA. They have expanded the budget, but they're also expanding the privatization.

I think this is kind of a second prong, a much less visible prong, of transformation that's happening where, most importantly, they have fired tens of thousands of people who work at the VA and all the federal cuts that have happened from DOGE and everywhere else, roughly 40% of them are veterans. The shutdown right now is disproportionately impacting veterans who work in all these places and are impacted by all these places.

To maybe bring it all back around, Brian, first of all, your last caller is a hero multiple times over. There have been so many people who've been heroically fighting to change and evolve this military in a way that is consistent with our values and in the interest of our national security. That fight continues. Here in New York City, one thing we haven't talked about is, I haven't seen a veterans policy platform from the mayor elect. I didn't see one of substance from most of the candidates. I would call on them today especially to tell us what they're going to do, because we need to double the budget.

For example, at the New York City Veterans Services, I think we need to hire more veterans into city government, especially NYPD, FDNY, EMS, and Department of Education. There are things like expanding the New York City Veterans tax credit, getting homeless veterans into homes, making affordable housing specifically for veterans, military first responders, VA home loan usage. There's a lot that needs to be done in this city focused on our veterans.

I hope that the policymakers and especially the mayor elect will communicate what his plan is. We've got roughly 145,000 veterans in New York City. 42,000 in Queens is the highest. Staten Island's got about 14,000. They're listening today to hear what this mayor elect is going to do, what the governor is going to do, and I hope what the president's going to do. Most of all, I just want to invite everybody to join us. We can come together. It's positive, it's unifying, and it's really the best of what our country and our city is all about.

Veterans Day is not just for veterans. It's for everybody, and especially those who are feeling lost or disconnected. I encourage you to come out either on the ground or online and help us try to make the spirit of Veterans Day last every day.

Brian Lehrer: You want to finish that thought and say where it kicks off from and when?

Paul Rieckhoff: Madison Square Park. They're a little later today. They usually start at 11:11 on the minute of the 11th hour, 11th day, 11th month. That's the tradition from Armistice Day. The parade goes all the way up through Midtown, and then there are these kind of tertiary receptions all across. You can join the parade. You can go to Madison Square Park. You can also find them all across the five boroughs. There's stuff going on.

We're also hosting an online town hall tonight for Independent Veterans of America at 9:00 PM. We encourage everybody to join us and support. We're looking for veterans who want to run for public office, local and national, not as Democrats or Republicans, but as independents. We think that that is the future of American politics, and we need those folks now more than ever.

Brian Lehrer: Paul Rieckhoff, these days founder and CEO of the group Independent Veterans of America, thank you for giving us some time on this Veterans Day before you go to the parade. Thank you very much.

Paul Rieckhoff: Thank you, Brian. You know that I still hope that one day you'll run for mayor.

Brian Lehrer: No way. I'm in this business. Thanks again, though. Bye-bye.

Paul Rieckhoff: Thanks, Brian.

[00:35:13] [END OF AUDIO]

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