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Brigid Bergin: It's the Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. I'm Brigid Bergin, senior reporter in the WNYC and Gothamist newsroom, keeping the seat warm for Brian. He's going to be back on Monday. Coming up in today's show, we'll talk about why two of our local members of Congress, Adriano Espailat and Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, are pushing the Biden administration to grant TPS, which stands for Temporary Protected Status, to migrants from Ecuador. More than half the Ecuadorians in the United States live right here in Queens.

Later in the show, we'll talk to a Bloomberg Businessweek reporter who has spent years covering billionaires like Peter Thiel and Elon Musk. He's got a new podcast about Musk that gets into why he's buddying up so closely to President Elect Trump. We'll wrap up today's show with a conversation on why kids today have so many toys. Let me tell you, I am guilty as charged in my own home, so no judgment. Maybe the toy tsunami is not actually great for our kids. First, things are moving so fast as Donald Trump prepares to take office for a second term, that he's already announced a new pick for attorney general after his first pick, former Congress member Matt Gaetz, withdrew his name yesterday. Now former Florida attorney general, Pam Bondi is getting the nod. Even as the Trump team moves quickly, some of the forces that organized in opposition to his administration in his first term are taking a beat.

In her article for the nonprofit news site, The 19th, reporter Jennifer Gerson spoke to policy experts and activists who said they're adjusting some of their strategies, maybe reframing the resistance and taking a more contemplative approach despite some not insignificant fears about a second Trump term. Her article, co-written with Candace Norwood, is headlined the 2017 Trump resistance playbook is out. Community organizing is in. Jennifer Gerson joins me now. Jennifer, welcome to wnyc.

Jennifer Gerson: Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Brigid: We're excited to have you. Listeners, we're going to make this a resistance 2.0 call in. If you hit the streets last time to protest President Trump or joined the Women's March, where are you channeling your energy this time? Are you doing work on the ground in your community? Have you found a community online? If your way of resisting was donating money, where are you donating now? Call us with your stories of resistance 2.0, what does it mean to you. The number's 212-433-WNYC, that's 212-433-9692. You can call or text at that number. Jennifer, I'm wondering, when did you first get the sense that people were approaching this second Trump term differently than they organized before the first?

Jennifer: I would say, honestly, almost immediately. I would say within the first, really, 48 hours after election day, just folks I regularly talk to. People at advocacy groups were really saying, "This is time to be quiet. We really need to take some time to think, be reflective, and really focus on our micro communities and hear what people have to say right now." That this is going to be different than what we saw last time. I think the impulsive, reactive urge to immediately take to the streets is not there this time.

It's not because people are not feeling things or wanting to respond. I think they do see a need, especially after having been through a first Trump term, of thinking about things differently. I think people are just still really feeling the loss of this election really hard, too. I think there was a lot of hope and obviously so much momentum behind the Harris campaign, and people are really trying to take a beat to hear what needs to be done.

Brigid: In your piece, you draw that parallel, there is some connection to how people and certainly what we saw in the 2016 election, another woman candidate. Yet the response does feel different. I mentioned the Women's March, which took place in cities around the world and had a lot of celebrities hooked into it. Here's a little bit of what it sounded like.

Crowd 1: What do we want?

Crowd 2: Women's rights.

Crowd 1: When do we want it?

Crowd 2: Now.

Crowd 1: What do we want?

Crowd 2: Women rights.

Crowd 1: When do we want it?

Crowd 2: Now.

Brigid: For people who may not remember the details, can you just remind us how that was originally organized? Who was involved, and what that event looked like now that we know a little bit of what it sounded like.

Jennifer: Sure. The Women's March in Washington in 2017 was held right before Trump's inauguration in January of that year. We just saw, again, record number of people coming to Washington and then to their own local cities. I'm in Atlanta, there was one here. In pretty much every major city across the country, we saw these local Women's Marches in addition to the March on Washington.

It was about people trying to respond in a really intersectional way to this moment of responding to-- We had had right before Election Day, the acts of Hollywood tape breaking. I think people had a lot of feelings about the allegations against former President Trump and the way he had spoken about women and really wanted to be seen, be heard, make some noise about that and also point to the way that they felt that so many communities, not just women, not just white women, were going to be impacted by that. A lot of the focus of the organizing as that march group was to that nature.

Today we're seeing something somewhat similar. We're seeing a People's March as opposed to a Women's March, which I think also speaks to the way that things have changed and evolved since 2017, besides my cat sneezing and she's very codependent and loud. Then I think we're also seeing people want to take action. I think even the name the People's March, I think reflects a little bit of the shift we're feeling right now of the way times have changed. I think that in and of itself is reflective of how this isn't 2017 anymore.

Brigid: Just you mentioned the People's March, tell listeners who may not have heard more of the details about it, is that taking place at the same time that the Women's March took place, that pre-inauguration weekend? What are some of the details, if people are interested in it, that they should know about?

Jennifer: The People's March in Washington in January is going to be-- I believe they're holding it right, I think it's a week before, so the inauguration is a little bit before. The timing's a bit different this year, but again, we're seeing a lot of the advocacy groups sign on. There's going to be a really, I think, diverse set of speakers. It's going to be similar to what we saw in 2017. I think the numbers will be smaller, but I think what we're seeing on stage will feel similar in terms of speaking to folks who feel holistically that they are going to be disproportionately impacted by some of the actions of the administration and wanting to be in a public place speaking about that.

Brigid: Let's go to the phones. I want to talk to Patrick in Yorkville. Patrick, thanks so much for calling this morning.

Patrick: Hi. Thanks for taking the call. A longtime listener. I am actually right now about to pick up-- Sorry, there's some noise. I'm about to pick up bread for my local mutual aid group because I found that after 2020 or after Trump's or rather during Trump's administration, the best way to resist is not going to be the shortcut. It's not going to be the easiest way, but is to get together with your neighbors and build connections and build solidarity. I founded the Upper East Side Mutual Aid Network.

I want to let everyone listening know that if you go to mutualaid.nyc anywhere in the city, you can find a local mutual aid group to get involved with, because building solidarity and building connections with your neighbors is a great way to take direct action now for whatever the needs currently exist in your neighborhood, but also to prepare for the future and have a network of people to work with to build something better and exercise your politics rather than just posting, arguing, you can get involved in the connections.

Brigid: Patrick, just briefly, for people who maybe new to mutual aid and understanding what that work involves, can you just briefly tell us the work that your group is doing?

Patrick: The Upper East Side Mutual Aid Network, we do food handouts to end food waste in the neighborhood. We do street cleanups. When it used to snow, we did snow shoveling in those little pedestrian islands between the bike lane and the car lane because we find that there are a lot of overlooked issues in the city that the city is too slow to handle, nonprofits are too slow to handle. There's too much bureaucracy. If you've ever looked at something in the city and thought, "Oh, someone should fix this," you have to remember that you are someone. If you have neighbors, you can fix it together.

Brigid: Patrick, thanks so much for your call. We really appreciate it. Let's go to one more caller. Jyothi in Yonkers. Jyothi, did I say that correctly?

Jyothi: Yes, you did.

Brigid: Welcome to WNYC. Thanks so much for calling.

Jyothi: Hi. Thanks for taking my call. I am very concerned about this bill that just passed the House, HR9495, that gives Trump, or actually Trump's treasury, the ability to unilaterally label any nonprofit a terrorist organization without giving any evidence and then taking away their tax exempt status. I think the bill is aimed at pro-Palestinian groups, but it could be also used against BLM, it could be used against the ACLU, it could be used against universities that allow demonstrations against Trump. It's a very dangerous bill and it still needs to pass the Senate. I am now calling friends and family, posting on social media to raise the alarm about this really dangerous bill.

Brigid: Joythe, thanks so much for that call. Jennifer, I want to give you a chance to respond to some of that because I know you talk to lots of organizations who are finding out different ways to get people involved in their communities, but also looking for ways to lobby on the Hill. Any reactions to those first two callers?

Jennifer: Definitely with the mutual aid, I feel like that is something I heard so much of and have continued to hear over the past two plus weeks now. I think people are really trying to think about their own backyard. I'm hearing so much of that. People are really thinking in this moment, how can I care for those in my immediate vicinity, who needs help and what does it mean to provide that help? Then like we just heard too, I think people on an individual level feel really tuned in right now. I think there is so much fatigue still from the election in general. I think--

Brigid: You blew my mind when you reminded me it was only two weeks ago.

Jennifer: I know. Every day I think this. I think that people are still feeling very deeply and are tuned in, especially in this moment where we're in this flurry of news. We're seeing the appointments to Trump's cabinet coming. We're seeing some new bills coming out of Congress in anticipation of a new administration. I think for people paying attention, they are doing, like what you've just heard, I think they are trying to think about what they themselves as an individual can do in this moment and how to rally their own community to be involved in what they feel is important right now. Again, this is different for everyone. I think what I'm just hearing from folks is that, I think instead of looking outwards, taking to the streets, I think we're really seeing people look in their own backyards and figure out how they can be present for their neighbors. That's something I've pretty consistently heard.

Brigid: If you're just joining us, I'm Brigid Bergin from the WNYC and Gothamist newsroom, filling in for Brian today. He'll be back Monday. My guest is Jennifer Gerson, a reporter at The 19th, a nonprofit news site. We're talking about a recent piece that she wrote, called the 2017 Trump resistance playbook is out. Community organizing is in. We are inviting you to join this resistance 2.0 call in. If you were someone who was active after the first Trump election, maybe you went to a march, maybe you started organizing. We've heard from mutual aid groups. We'd love to know how you're channeling your energy this time. How are you working in your community? Who are you connecting with?

If you're donating money, who are you giving money to? We want to hear your stories. You can call or text at 212-433-WNYC, that's 212-433-9692. Jennifer, one of the things that you talked about was something that we heard just in one of those first callers, the community organizing, local organizing efforts. Something that you found was that there were efforts about combating misinformation. I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit more about what those efforts are looking like. I think we're going to go to a caller because we're having a little issue with Jennifer's line, but we have lots of people to talk to. Let's go to Hannah Kyle in Brooklyn. Hannah, thanks so much for calling.

Hannah Kyle: Hello. My name's Hannah Kyle. Thanks for having me. I wanted to mention that I am a member of Jews for Racial & Economic Justice, also known as JFREJ. We're a community based organization organizing lots right here in New York City, focused right here in New York City. And there's lots of ways to get involved. There's lots of things that we organize around neighborhoods, domestic workers, labor, immigration. It's expansive and it's also focused on making New York City a better place for everyone who lives here. We are inviting in new members right now. I just wanted to come on here and make a pitch, like join JFREJ. The website is jfrej.org. You can join for $3 a year. It's the home of the New York Jewish left.

Brigid: Hannah Kyle, thank you so much for calling and for listeners who, if that interests you, that information she gave out the website. We're getting a bunch of text messages in as well. I want to share a couple of those before getting some more of your calls and Jennifer's reaction. A listener writes, "This time I'm taking time to make sure I take care of myself and my community. That means enjoying the last few days of Biden's presidency before the chaos and anxiety of the next administration, making sure friends who are in vulnerable communities feel seen and heard in protecting and donating to women's health care and trans rights orgs." Another listener writes, "I was very involved last time. This time I'm throwing away the anger, focusing on my small upstate town and county, not watching the news, only responding to what he does and not what he says. You can't own this liv if I don't care, which is an interesting way to put it Jennifer. I think we have you back. Are you there?

Jennifer: I'm here.

Brigid: Okay. Good. I want to go back to the question that I had asked you right before. We had a little issue with your line, which was obviously we're getting a lot of calls from people who talk, who are talking about how they were organizing in their community. We're going to get more of those in. You spoke to people who in their local organizing efforts were doing work around combating misinformation. I was wondering if you could talk a little bit more about what those efforts look like.

Jennifer: Sure. I think that obviously misinformation has been a just huge issue nationally, especially in the run up to this past election. There's been so much reported across the board on the presence of misinformation and disinformation. I think for a lot of these groups, they see some of the most critical work ahead of them as we are on the eve of a second Trump administration of again--

This really microwave focus on the communities they directly serve and how to get information out to them to make sure that as we're just flooded with the just non softness of what sometimes the Trump administration news cycle can look like, that people have accurate information that they know the facts on the ground, especially on things relating to, I think health care comes up a lot, abortion, gender affirming care, things like that, that people know what is available legal and what's actually in some of the bills probably we anticipate seen coming out of this upcoming Congress.

Brigid: Not everyone you spoke to seemed to think that things like even a recast version of the People's March was really the best approach. You spoke to a reproductive rights policy leader in your hometown of Atlanta, Georgia, Stacy Fox. Can you tell us who she is and what were some of her concerns?

Jennifer: I heard from Stacy and a number of other people I spoke to, just again over the past few weeks, who I think have some March exhaustion, who feel like this is not the way right now. We don't need something as passive in reality as holding up a sign. I think it's something that people say to me a lot. They're like, "I don't want to see someone else just out there holding a sign. I want people doing things." I think that sentiment is very real in the advocacy community right now.

Again, it's something I really can't overstate how much I have heard in the past few weeks that people are, I think a little tired of folks who maybe don't see a path forward other than showing up occasionally for a march, but aren't doing some of the work in their communities that we've been hearing about from callers today. I think people are asking people to think about how they can be more active. I think that's part of the, again, exhaustion that I hear when I speak with these longtime advocates.

Brigid: Sure. We have a full board of callers. I want to make sure that we get more of them in here. We need to take a short break. We'll have more with The 19th reporter, Jennifer Gerson, and more of your calls on resistance 2.0 coming up.

It's the Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. I'm Brigid Bergin filling in for Brian today. My guest is Jennifer Gerson, a reporter at the nonprofit news site, The 19th. She recently co authored a piece headlined, the 2017 Trump resistance playbook is out. Community organizing is in. We've been hearing from callers who have been talking about what they're doing right here in their communities. I want to go to Helene in Manhattan, who's taking a little different approach. Helene, thanks so much for calling WNYC.

Helene: Hi.

Brigid: Hi. Welcome.

Helene: Thank you. I'm taking more of a global approach in this time of profound uncertainty in terms of what's coming with what's going to be with mental changes in terms of the friendliness to the environment or hostility to the environment. I started working as a volunteer representative of a group called Oceansole. They are on Instagram. They employ women and children on the east coast of Africa who collect flip flops because the debris collection in the Indian Ocean is non existent. Prevost a ton a month of flip flops, wash them, upcycle them and sell these incredible beautiful animals of all sizes that will be available retail in Manhattan, but it's basically supporting cleaning up the oceans and that's my point of resistance at this point in my life. I'm 73.

Brigid: Helene, thank you so much for that call. A different, more global approach. Jennifer, we're getting a ton of text messages, a ton of callers. Just building a little bit on Helene's idea of taking a different approach, one listener texts, "Resistance 1.0 led to the development and election of a new generation of women leaders. Why would we not want to replicate that?" I wonder if I posed that question to you, any reaction to both these ideas of maybe taking global action. Also maybe there was some good that came out of the first resistance 1.0.

Jennifer: In terms of global action, I think what we just heard from this caller is something that, again, speaks to the nature of what I've continued to hear, which is, I think for people, how they're feeling right now is very personal, I think, whereas in 2016, 2017, we saw a more cultural, collective response to things. I think in this moment, people are really taking a really individualized approach to how they are feeling, how they are responding, and figuring out what makes the most sense for them in relation to their community. That absolutely resonates and seems consistent with what I have heard in regards to the wave of women in office we saw in the in response to the first Trump presidency. As a political reporter, I'm sure you can empathize. I'm always thinking about the next election cycle. I'm already thinking about midterms, and I--

Brigid: You bet.

Jennifer: People are tired of me saying it's already midterm season, but it is. I think that right now, there's still a lot of, again, similar to what we're seeing amongst the advocacy community, I think in the Democratic Party, especially in state parties with that organizing, I think there's a moment of quiet. I think people are really trying to be strategic right now. This was a very close election. I think that is impossible to ignore. The margin of victory for Trump was one of the narrowest in history over Harris in terms of the popular vote. I think Democrats are obviously doing a lot of reckoning right now with the fact that we did see this sweep of all swing states. I think there's a lot of thought being put into what does this next movement look like, what candidates are running, what messaging is out there?

I think it's going to be really interesting to see what we see in response to women running for office and the response that those candidates get. I think that there's still so much stigma and bias against seeing women in executive roles like the presidency or governorships. We do know from research that that usually is different when we think about other forms of office, whether it's school board, congress, things like that. When there are roles that people see as where this skill of negotiation is more critical, we see women elected to those positions more often. I think it's going to be really interesting to see what happens next and how the party chooses to respond.

Brigid: We have several callers, who I think, want to weigh in on that vein as well. Let's start with Jenny in Brooklyn. Jenny, thanks so much for calling.

Jenny: Hello. Good to be on. Thanks for having me on and for covering this. You can hear me?

Brigid: We can hear you.

Jenny: Great. I helped to lead a group in Brooklyn called Indivisible Brooklyn, probably lots of people have heard about Indivisible. We're a very active group that got started right when Trump got elected the first time in 2016, and we've been going since then. We do both electoral work, and we were very, very active in this past election and got lots of new people involved as a result, and those people are wanting to stay involved. We have a, usually a first Wednesday of the month general meeting, which is very sold. Meeting this past Tuesday, we had 42 people just on Zoom, which is quite a lot for one of these meetings. People are really feeling very energized and wanting. Wanting to be involved, wanting to find a place to tap in. We have, as a group, done a lot of targeting of Senator Schumer. He's in our backyard. We're based in Brownstone Brooklyn. As the majority, he's a great target for everyone, but especially for us, because he's right there.

Brigid: Jenny, thanks.

Jenny: We are right now focusing on getting him to confirm judges, and then we'll keep working on other things.

Jennifer: Jenny, thanks so much for that call. We appreciate it. I want to get in a bunch because we actually have a very full board. Let's go to David in Stuyvesant Town next. David, thanks for calling.

David: Hey, thanks very much. I grew up in the suburbs. I live in New York City now and got very politically active when I was in the city. I just feel like the leadership has to now-- It's so easy for us in the big cities to go to marches and be seen and feel safe doing so. I think it takes a lot more courage and probably conveys a lot more meaning if an individual or a very small group is standing on a suburban street corner. I think that's where people really need to do a lot of outreach and let their peers and their community members know that there's at least some people who are willing to boldly say they're not on board with this guy's Cabinet picks or whatever specific issue really motivates them.

Brigid: David, thanks for that call. Jennifer, I know you talk to people in different parts of the country, not just in big cities, but also in more rural areas outside of cities. Were you hearing any of that sentiment that David shared about the need to be organizing in places beyond just Washington?

Jennifer: Sure. That call hits close to home. I'm in suburban Atlanta, which is a place that everybody loves to talk about during a presidential election. Anecdotally, it's something I am seeing and hearing so much in my community. I've seen just on Facebook, even a lot of organic groups spring up of mothers, especially trying to connect with each other is something I've really taken notice of and saying, "Oh, I would like to meet other mothers who voted how I did," or certainly in my where I live, there's been a lot of organizing on all sides of the political spectrum, but there's people out there.

Something I've heard really recently and some recent reporting I've done on more rural parts of the state here in Georgia, there has been this big effort of just, I'm hearing from county party chairs of letting people know you aren't the only Democrat here, that's something that these county party chairs have really stressed me, especially again in parts of the state that have been historically, traditionally and for a very long time heavily Republican. Letting people know, "Hey, if you look around a room, there's probably other people who voted how you did." That's definitely something that the party on the down ballot level is really focused on. That is certainly something I've heard in my reporting.

Brigid: Let's go to Johanna in Lindenhurst. Johanna, thanks for calling.

Johanna: Hi, good to be with you this morning. I'm glad I tuned in. I'm calling in relationship to what I'm doing and have been doing all since the first Trump administration, but much more so now. I went to the first March in 2017, and I got to tell you, that was incredible experience. It was packed with people. I was right by the stage. There's a whole story. I'm going to the next one as well. In January, I already have my hotel reserved, the rooms were going fast. I'll be there at the People's March. The other things that I started to take up recently is even before the results of the election came in, I put myself out there as a nominee for the executive committee for the Sierra Club here on Long island, the Long Island Sierra Club.

There's an election, evidently, so I'll find out if I'm actually going to be assigned a position on the executive committee. More what I'm doing a lot more since the election is making phone calls. I've become a lot more comfortable getting on the phone with-- Leaving messages for the senators, for the representatives, because I feel I'm more informed than I used to be. The information is out there. I was calling about HR9495. I was calling about Matt Gaetz, and I'll continue. I call Colin Allred. I call all around the country. Some people say it's not as effective if you're not a constituent. I emphasize to them that they're making decisions that affect the whole country.

Brigid: Johanna, thank you so much for that call. We really appreciate it. It sounds like you've been on the phone a lot lately. I want to bring in another caller who has a different point of view, and I think it's an important one because I know some listeners may be thinking this. Sai in Brooklyn, thank you so much for calling.

Sai: My pleasure. My feeling is when I hear about retreating into our own group, who we feel comfortable with, we lose the opportunity to connect with other people on issues that are common to all of us. I think there's something about the-- It's hard to lose. We're sore losers. Trump was a sore loser. I don't think we have to fit into that category. I think we have to say, "Let's find out what they're interested in. Let's cooperate in the things that are valuable to us, and let's show that we're part of a total country. I think that's the way to go.

Brigid: Sai, thank you for that perspective. We appreciate your call. Jennifer, I will note that we've gotten more text messages than I could ever read. I'm going to get more of them in before we wrap up. Some fair pushback from people saying that something similar to what Sai was saying there, that is there a way to be thinking instead of resisting to ways that people want to work, to work with this administration? When you were talking to the people in your piece, which was really focused on the resistance and how it might look differently next this time, did you encounter much of that people wanting to figure out ways into and ways to work with this administration?

Jennifer: For this story specifically, we were really speaking with a lot of the advocacy groups. It's a bit different than speaking with members of Congress, other elected leaders who I think are in a slightly different position. I think for these groups, especially right now, I think especially coming off of the loss, Harris's loss in this election. I think they're really trying to focus on what it means to connect with the communities they serve in terms of thinking ahead, again for the next election cycles, both midterms in 2026 and the next presidential election in 2028, and really trying to figure out what it means to turn out the communities they serve. I think that's why we're seeing so much of this from the advocacy world, focus on these micro communities and figuring out who needs to turn out for them to build the coalition they need to elect the kinds of leaders they want to pass the kinds of agendas they want.

Brigid: I want to get some of those other text messages in that I mentioned. One listener writes, "Last time I did the Women's March, joined my Bronx community board and served for six years and volunteered for de Blasio's mayoral campaign and a local state senators campaign to regain Democratic control of the state Senate. This time I canvassed in Pennsylvania for Harris, and now I'm every bit as concerned. I'm taking a beat to decide what's next. I wouldn't recommend the community board. Too much mechanism, feuding personalities in terms of service and real estate interests. I would recommend volunteering for local city and state campaigns. They have an outsized impact."

Another listener writes-- Where's that text message? Supporting can mean money. Showing up at events in person, introducing people to organizations that do good work or organizing for budget support for these industries that rely so much on government support in our system, in this country. A lot of different perspectives here. Then some people talking about how they are concerned about some of what they are seeing. Hi, Jennifer, I'm a transgender woman in Astoria. I'm scared out of my mind that they're going to ban transgender people from being able to use bathrooms in the Capitol. Because we just got our first transgender person in Congress, Sarah McBride, and some concern about the anti trans platform. Jennifer, in your reporting, how much of these gender policies were things that you encountered that people were organizing and what was informing their strategies since, as we've been talking about, people are trying to take a slightly different approach than they did last time

Jennifer: I think something I heard from a number of different groups was about how to focus, especially before the start of the next administration, on the best ways to care for the trans community where they are. Someone I spoke with was trying to put together a passport fare in Atlanta for trans community. I've just heard from other people about trying to focus fundraising efforts on mutual aid for trans communities, because just really, I think there is a really strong focus that we are hearing from the advocacy community right now on how to fundraise organized, practical services around those who are likely to be most impacted by a lot of the policies we see coming from the upcoming administration. I think that is definitely something I have repeatedly heard. I think there's a real awareness amongst these groups of who's really, really feeling a lot of anxiety right now. I think they're trying to figure out how to best serve those communities that stand to be most disproportionately impacted by the upcoming administration.

Brigid: I want to take one more caller. Let's go to Bimla in Manhattan. Bimla, thanks for calling.

Bimlah: Oh, hi. Just two things I just wanted to say that whether you're Republican or Democrat politically, you just need to understand that these people are public servants and they're supposed to be representing our interests. It's become just a whole political show and the constituency who are paying them are not being listened to. What we all want, Democrat or Republican, are the same thing, food on the table, shelter, affordable housing, good schooling. Then for all of the other satellite issues, the things that are personal to many, many people, should be addressed on different platforms, but it should not be the main topic.

I run a startup, I'm a female founder. I am a minority. I pitch in front of people. It's a distraction when I start talking about who I am and what my color is and what my gender is. I have a great idea, a great product, a great business, but the minute I have to dive in with who I am and what my ethnicity is, it's a distraction and they're not thinking about the main topic. I think that is what happened with the Democrats and with the election. We are more united. We are all American. It doesn't matter ethnicity, social background, economical background. I think that was the biggest distraction. We have so many people in our family, from young teenagers to 40-something, to seniors.

Brigid: Bimlah, thank you so much, from that call and for that perspective, I think it's something that it's valuable to have in this conversation. Jennifer, I want to take just one more question for you, bringing it back to where we started early in this conversation. We were talking about the evolution of The Women's March to a People's March. One of the things that has come up in several different text messages are some questions about safety and how people should be thinking about their personal safety if they were to attend an event like that. I think some of the organizers you spoke to had some thinking around plans for that. What can you tell us about what you learned in your reporting?

Jennifer: I think that there are obviously always concerns when you are out publicly in any way, especially I think just given some of the rhetoric we have heard from the Trump administration. I think people have some reasonable concerns. I think that organizers are obviously taking the steps that they hope and believe will help keep people safe. Often there is some safety in numbers, and I think at big events like this, oftentimes you're able to get the permitting and do the things necessary to help have some baseline of safety at play. I think there's just a lot of uncertainty right now.

I wish I had a better answer. I think we don't really know what risks there could be moving ahead, what kinds of actions might be classified in which way by the administration. I think that everyone is doing the best they can. That I think it's something that I hear right now too. I think people want to encourage people to not be afraid to speak out, do what they feel that they need to do. In this moment, I think we are hearing that from the advocacy groups, but I think they obviously are very aware of the real concerns that especially certain communities disproportionately are facing in terms of risks and want to be very cognizant and respectful of the risks that certain people might be facing right now.

Brigid: I want to thank my guest. My guest has been Jennifer Gerson, a reporter at the nonprofit News site the 19th. Jennifer, thanks so much for joining me.

Jennifer: Thank you.

 

 

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