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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. And now to end the show for our last 15 minutes, we'll have a short call in for introverts. Do introverts call talk radio shows? I think the answer is yes, because I think introversion is very misunderstood, and aversion to calling in is not the kind of thing introversion is actually about, per my understanding. Why a call-in for introverts today? Well, because an article on Slate this week describes how introversion is apparently on the rise in American society. The obvious theory why, COVID lockdowns were actually a relief to some people, a relief from the relentless convention of interacting, or interacting in person, or some of you who are not pure introverts just found that less interaction with other human beings just suits you. Does this sound like you? 212-433 WNYC. Do you think you are an example of introversion being on the rise in the United States? If so, call us and give us a little bit of your own experience with this, a little bit of your own inner life. 212-433 WNYC. Introverts of the world unite? Well, no, you can stay by yourself, but you're invited to call in and say if you think your personal tendency toward introversion is on the rise or if you've noticed it in yourself for the first time in the last few years. 212-433 WNYC. 212-433-9692. Remember, introversion isn't the same as being shy. It's about not wanting so much interaction, so that's what we're talking about.

The piece in Slate was written by Jesse Gold, a psychiatrist at the University of Tennessee, who has noticed a significant change in her own personality over the last four years. Psychiatrist, diagnose thyself, I guess. She went from being the kind of person who needed the companionship of others to feel recharged, as she put it, to leaving weddings early- for example, leaving weddings early because she, "had enough socializing." While there aren't studies proving the shift from extroversion to introversion is widespread, in speaking with friends and fellow mental health care providers, Gold found she wasn't alone.

Listeners, let's hold an unscientific poll here, or forget about poll framing. Just tell us your anecdotes, your anecdotal evidence based on you or other people you know in your lives. Maybe this is about others who you did interact with, who don't want to come out and play as much as they used to. 212-433 WNYC. Is introversion on the rise in the United States in your experience? 212-433 WNYC, 433-9692, and we will take your calls and texts right after this.

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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Okay. Have you become more introverted, or has anyone you know- who you know, become more introverted in the last few years? Is there a rise of this in the United States as the this one psychiatrist, Jesse Gold, thinks is the case, writing in Slate? Nancy in Montvale, you're on WNYC. Hi, Nancy.

Nancy: Hi, Brian. I actually live in Montville, which is south of Montvale.

Brian Lehrer: Sorry.

Nancy: I'm just about a half hour. No, that's totally fine. I actually feel pretty strongly about this. During COVID obviously, we were isolated, but as we began to come out of COVID and people started bringing up topics, whether it be how things are being handled or how people are beginning to function again, disagreements arose and controversy was, all of the sudden, in the conversation.

I have become more introverted because I think it's really difficult to listen these days. People really just want to get their views in, whether it be about COVID, whether it be about the election. It becomes very one sided, I think, and it's been stressful just to have what I thought could be a calm or even, somewhat, pointed conversation. It seems to escalate very quickly, and I'd rather just be a listener and just keep reading and listening to you.

Brian Lehrer: Interesting. Interesting take on it, Nancy. Thank you. Richard in Sparta, you're on WNYC. Hi, Richard.

Richard: Hi, Brian. Thanks for having me on. I've been an introvert my whole life, but I'm also driven to perform. I'm actually driving right now up to Kent, Connecticut, to perform a free concert. I like to do that, but I must have social anxiety. I really don't understand the difference between the two. Maybe your guests can help me shed some light.

Brian Lehrer: Well, we don't have a guest on this. It's just a call-in based on an article on Slate, but I think this is classic.

Richard: Oh, I'm sorry.

Brian Lehrer: From my understanding of introversion, this is classic that there -- If I looked it up, if you look it up, you'd probably find articles about very famous people who have exactly the dichotomy that you described. Fine on stage, they like to perform, but that doesn't make them an extrovert, because the withdrawal is from social interaction. Perform, yes. Be in the mix, no. Richard, I think you're a-

Richard: Very much how I feel.

Brian Lehrer: -classic. Thank you for clarifying that, actually, for a lot of listeners because so many do misunderstand introversion as shyness. Antonio in Ridgewood, Queens, you are on WNYC. Hi, Antonio.

Antonio: Hey, Brian. Thanks for having me on. You started this segment posing the question of do introverts call into public radio? This just made me laugh because yesterday you had the segment on the US Open and in tennis, and I'm a huge tennis fan. I was listening to the show, I had the number up, ready to call in and talk some tennis, and I got way too nervous, didn't call. I was kicking myself for it all day.

I think I, similar to the last caller, not so much with performance, but experience a similar dichotomy where I really am a talker. My friends and my girlfriend always confuse me about it a little bit in a loving way, because sometimes when I get going, I don't really stop. At the same time, I am socially anxious, especially in situations where-- sometimes situations like this, or if I am asked to be up in front of people and talking in that way.

I, also, am someone who's always thrived with some alone time. I'm a big reader. I like to watch tv, watch movies and stuff like that, and I think during the pandemic, obviously had a pretty much-

Brian Lehrer: You had a lot of that.

Antonio: -unlimited time to do that. Yes, exactly. I think I have noticed that since then I have found more willingness and more reasons to push off social interactions [unintelligible 00:07:45]

Brian Lehrer: Interesting. You'd be right in the pattern that that article was about. Well, since you fought your fear and called in, what did you want to say about tennis yesterday?

Antonio: [chuckles] To be honest, I don't really remember. I think I remember you were asking about why attendance was so high this year. I remember your guest, whose name I can't remember, mention Challengers, which I think was probably a great reason.

I think my thought that I had that I wanted to share was also-- and if this gets too long winded, please let me know, but is that, I think there's a certain intimacy to tennis that is missing from some of the major sports, especially the North American sports, that feel like such huge productions. Tennis, obviously, is a very big money sport in a different way, but there is a sort of intimacy that, oftentimes, you're sitting so close you can hear- it's a much quieter atmosphere, you can hear everything. It almost feels like the players can turn around and talk to you in the stadium, and sometimes they do.

I think that that is appealing to a lot of people who maybe feel more isolated or jaded with just the size and production value of the NFL or NBA or something.

Brian Lehrer: Nicely put. Antonio, thank you for calling in. Don't make it the last time. Julia on Cape Cod, you're on WNYC. Hi, Julia. Julia in Cape Cod, are you there? Julia once. Julia twice. Let's try Greta in Queens. Greta, can you hear me?

Greta: Yes, I can. Thank you for answering my call.

Brian Lehrer: Sure.

Greta: Because I like to consider myself as a social butterfly at one point, last year, I woke up with sudden hearing loss and tinnitus. I've become an introvert and I don't like it. I don't like it at all. I find myself not turning on a lot of invitations, not wanting to be in the midst of a crowd of people. It's not a nice feeling.

Brian Lehrer: You haven't really turned into an introvert who likes to be alone. It sounds like your hearing loss is causing you to be reluctant to be in social situations that you would have been in before and that's making you sad.

Greta: That's correct. That's correct. It is. It's not that I like to be alone. I don't mind being by myself or going to the mall by myself, but I'm a social butterfly. I like to be around people. Because of the hearing loss, I don't allow myself that luxury because it's not a luxury anymore.

Brian Lehrer: Well, I hope you have a really good doctor because there are things that they can do for a lot of people with hearing loss. In your case, I can't say exactly what could be done, but don't sleep on getting help.

Greta: No, I've tried, whatever. I wear a hearing aid, but when I turn it up, I get all the background sounds. It makes it more annoying. Even going out to a restaurant, it's not enjoyable anymore.

Brian Lehrer: I'm probably telling you things you know, but there are ones that you can set for different kinds of settings if there's a lot of crowd noise around, if there's very little. Greta, thank you for calling, and thanks to all of you who called on this segment about whether introversion is on the rise in the United States since the pandemic. Our informal, unofficial, thoroughly unscientific example seems to indicate yes.

That's the Brian Lehrer Show for Today, produced by Mary Croke, Lisa Allison, Amina Srna, Carl Boisrond and Esperanza Rosenbaum. We say goodbye today to our summer intern, Lucinda Empson-Speiden. Thanks a lot for your help. Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Stay tuned for Alison.

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