Title: Friday Morning Politics: Rep. Lawler

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Brian Lehrer: Now we'll talk to another of our local elected officials. This time it's Hudson Valley Congressman Mike Lawler, the Republican who represents Rockland and Putnam counties, plus parts of Westchester and Dutchess. He's on the Financial Services and Foreign Affairs Committees. Congressman Lawler is also in the news right now because he's seriously considering a run for governor next year. He said just this week on FOX Business that he'll make a decision on that in June.

Lawler has been ranked one of the most bipartisan members of Congress, the fourth most bipartisan according to Georgetown University's annual rankings last year. Georgetown says its bipartisan index quantifies how often members of Congress introduce bills that attract co-sponsors from the other party and how often they in turn co-sponsor a bill introduced from across the aisle.

Congressman Lawler, we always appreciate when you come on with us. Welcome back to WNYC.

Congressman Lawler: Thanks for having me, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: Let me start here. Our previous segment, and maybe you heard the end of it, was about the final stages of the New York State budget negotiations for this year. As someone who has acknowledged you might run for governor next year, do you have anything you want to say in general about the budget that seems to be emerging or any specific things the state has been spending on that you like or don't like?

Congressman Lawler: Well, I think broadly speaking, as Nick Reisman pointed out, the governor proposed a $252 billion budget. The legislative leaders in their one house budgets proposed upwards of $260 billion. We'll see what the final number is, but the fact is it's up over $100 billion in one decade's time. That is unsustainable. There's a reason New York leads the nation in outmigration. It has nothing to do with the weather and everything to do with the overall cost of living, the tax burden, the reckless spending that is driving people out of this state, driving businesses out of this state.

From my vantage point, when you are spending more than Texas and Florida combined, despite having 33 million less in population, that speaks volumes to the staggering amount of money that New York continues to spend, and they seem to have no end in sight. I don't see how over the long haul they expect to be able to continue to fund it at these levels.

Brian Lehrer: Democrats argue that the reason people are moving out of state is primarily the cost of housing and other cost of living issues in the private sector. As governor, would you lead a DOGE style effort, if I can call it that, to massively cut back on the administrative state in Albany like the President and Elon Musk are doing in Washington?

Congressman Lawler: Look, I don't think there's any question, across every level of government, there needs to be an honest evaluation of our expenditures line by line, agency by agency, department by department. For instance, the MTA carries more debt than 80% of the states in the country. I think it is a responsibility of government to dot i's, cross t's, and make sure that we are effectively and efficiently spending taxpayer money.

It doesn't mean that you take a chainsaw to it, it doesn't mean that you slash and burn, but it does mean that there needs to be a level of introspection and really verifying that the dollars being spent are necessary and effective. There's no question we have folks throughout our state who need support and they need assistance, and we want to be able to provide that assistance to them. That is a responsibility that we all have as citizens, as a society, and as a government.

But you cannot, as I said, increase state spending by $100 billion in 10 years and expect that your tax base will be able to sustain that. As you pointed out, the overall cost of living in New York has skyrocketed. The average mortgage in my district went up $1,000 a month under Joe Biden because of the inflationary spending. You look at utility costs. Utility costs across the state have absolutely exploded in large measure because of the policy decisions. The CLCPA, while maybe well intentioned, is just not realistic. As a result, you have seen a massive increase in utility costs.

You have major supply issues across the state, shutting down Indian Point, blocking Danskammer Natural Gas Power Plant, blocking pipelines. It is created a real challenge for customers all across the state. You look at all of these issues, and to me, it really boils down to making sure that New York State government is efficient, is effective, is delivering the critical services that are needed, but is reducing its overall tax burden, its regulatory burden, and its spending to make sure that people can afford to live here and operate a business here.

Brian Lehrer: All right, you heard the end of our conversation with reporter Nick Reisman talking about Medicaid at the state level. One place where the state and federal budget debates overlap is on Medicaid. The coming debate in the House Energy and Commerce Committee seems like will include the possibility of ending the federal match that has helped cover more people under the Affordable Care act, or Obamacare. That's 2.1 million New Yorkers on expanded Medicaid according to healthinsurance.org.

Cutting the federal match, as I understand it, would require the states to either spend more themselves to keep the program, keep those people insured, or just end it and leave those millions of New Yorkers without health insurance. That's a long question, but do you have a position as a member of Congress or potential governor on keeping or ending the Obamacare-expanded Medicaid funding for the states?

Congressman Lawler: Look, I've been very clear that we are not cutting benefits to eligible recipients. The bottom line is, people rely on these programs. These are critical services. Medicaid impacts families and communities all across this country in red states and blue states, and people rely on it.

That being said, there's no question that these programs long term need to be sustainable. You've seen a massive rate of growth in them. Over the next decade, Medicaid is projected to grow by 24%. We want to make sure these programs are protected for the very people who need them and rely on them, and so the things that I and many of my New York colleagues have been open to are issues pertaining to workforce requirements for able-bodied adults without dependents. We've talked about citizenship verification and we've talked about eligibility verification.

The question will be, ultimately, how does CBO score those things and what does that add up to? But I'm less concerned about the 880 number and more concerned about the specific policy decisions that will be made as part of that. For me, protecting access for those who are eligible is critical, and that is a big part of the discussion that we're having in Washington.

Brian Lehrer: The 880 number, just to bring our listeners along, is $880 billion that a lot of the reporting says the House will try to cut out of Medicaid one way or another. My guest for another few minutes--

Congressman Lawler: Brian-

Brian Lehrer: Go ahead.

Congressman Lawler: -just for clarification, the 880 is out of energy and commerce, and that includes a lot of other provisions separate and apart from Medicaid or any other healthcare-related issue.

Brian Lehrer: My guest for another few minutes, Republican Congressman Mike Lawler from the Hudson Valley. So here we are approaching the end of President Trump's first hundred days. What kind of letter grade would you give him for his term so far as it affects your district?

Congressman Lawler: Look, I think the president is done very well when it comes to the border and stopping the massive influx of illegal immigration. We've seen for the month of March, border crossings were just over 7,000, the lowest recorded, and obviously, you look back a year ago during Joe Biden's presidency and you had about 180,000 people crossing our border for the month of March, so significant change.

Obviously, we've seen criminal aliens being deported. We've seen a lot of focus on bringing down the overall cost of living. Grocery costs are down, energy costs are down. We've seen trillions of dollars of new investment announced into the United States. Obviously, we are focused on extending key provisions of the tax bill as part of reconciliation. For me, inclusive of that is lifting the cap on salt, which the president has come out in strong support of. Obviously, there's a lot happening all at once, and I think overall the President's done a good job, but there's a lot more work to do for us to fulfill our promises of addressing the overall cost of living and growing the economy.

Obviously, from a foreign policy standpoint, a lot of challenges around the globe that the president inherited from the Russian invasion of Ukraine to the terrorist attacks against Israel, the threats from China. Between the President's tariff strategy and what he's doing to bring about fair trade as well as end these conflicts, there's a lot we're dealing with in the foreign policy space.

Brian Lehrer: You said energy costs are down, grocery costs are down. A lot of people may hear that and think, "What? Really?" A Fox News poll this week - I know you saw it; I'm sure you saw it - pegged to the first hundred days, shows the president's popularity has declined to be underwater on every issue except the border. I saw Brit Hume analyzing it that way on Fox Wednesday night-- and really bad on the economy. So is the president not getting the people's will on that or are the people not understanding why he's right on tariffs in your opinion? Or what would you say about that?

Congressman Lawler: Well, guys, I've said from the very beginning, tariffs as a short-term negotiating tool to bring about fair and free trade can be an effective tool. When you look at countries like Japan, like India, you look at the EU, Canada, Mexico, they have had unfair trade practices against the US for a very long time, and these are allies of ours. You look at China and what they have done to devalue our currency, intellectual property theft, economic coercion, taking control of ports and waterways around the globe, it has created a challenge economically.

Right now, obviously, there's some short-term volatility as the president works through these negotiations. That's something that we have to be cognizant of and make sure that that does not spiral, but I think what you are going to see as these trade deals get negotiated in the coming weeks, coupled with the reconciliation bill, is that the economy is going to take off in a very positive direction. Overall cost of living as a result will come down, inclusive of housing costs, which is one of the biggest drivers. You got to remember, because of Joe Biden's inflationary spending, interest rates went up, which drove up housing costs significantly. As I said before, the average mortgage cost in my district went up $1,000 a month.

All of this can't be reversed in one day. It takes some time. The policies have to be enacted fully, and that's what we're going through the process of doing.

Brian Lehrer: I know you got to go in a couple of minutes. I want to touch two more things real quick, if you have the time. A main concern of many critics is that Trump is trying to govern like an authoritarian, firing independent inspectors general, trying to control how private universities educate and admit students, suing and curtail access-- curtailing and otherwise trying to intimidate the press, deportations without due process or because of people's opinions, 22nd Amendment. I could go on. Are you at all concerned with Trump and authoritarianism?

Congressman Lawler: Look, I'm not concerned about authoritarianism. We have a constitutional republic, Congress, obviously a co-equal branch of government, the courts a co-equal branch. I think, in the case of Mr. Abrego García, for instance, you have a court ruling 9-0 from the Supreme Court. I think the administration and the president should abide by that, which would allow them to facilitate his return and go through the deportation process.

I think some of my Democratic colleagues have missed the mark on this. It's not just, obviously, the court ruling. The fact is he does have an order of deportation against him. As the evidence comes out, it's clearer that he has been involved in gang activity with MS-13 and human trafficking, and the fact is, I think most Americans support the effort to deport criminal aliens out of our country. If you look back to Bill Clinton, Bill Clinton deported over 10 million migrants out of our country, and I don't recall many people objecting to that.

The fact is, when you look at these college universities and campuses, if they are taking federal dollars, they have a responsibility to uphold federal law, including Title 6 of the 1964 Civil Rights Act. That's why I introduced the Antisemitism Awareness Act. We need to enforce Title 6. I fundamentally believe these universities and campuses need to follow federal law, and if they don't want to be dictated to, then don't take the federal dollars. The fact is, this happens in Democratic administrations. It happens in states like New York where they use the power of the purse to control private institutions. That is a reality of government if you are taking taxpayer money.

Brian Lehrer: Not to this degree, right-

Congressman Lawler: Oh, I [crosstalk]

Brian Lehrer: -like threatening Harvard's nonprofit status, or do you disagree?

Congressman Lawler: I disagree. Brian. Look, at the end of the day, you can look in New York when it comes to the issue of education and the control of state tax dollars and how they exert that on private institutions all the time. The fact is, again, these institutions have a responsibility. They failed miserably in that responsibility to uphold federal law and to take accountability. When you look at things, not just, obviously, taxpayer money, but the influence of foreign dollars into these institutions, money from Qatar and China, and how that impacts what they are teaching on these campuses, this is something that I just fundamentally believe there needs to be accountability for.

Brian Lehrer: Last thing, if you have another two minutes: MTA chair Janno Lieber was on the show yesterday, and when he heard me mention your appearance today in one of the breaks where we promote the next day's show and we came back from that break, unsolicited, he came out with something opinionated about you that he wanted to ask you about. As you know, I think, because we told your office we're going to play this clip, here it is for your response on the other side.

Janno Lieber: Let me tell you, I just heard you're having Mike Lawler on tomorrow, the congressman from Rockland County. Could you please ask him, what are the Republican congressmen who represent New York City and the suburbs doing for transit in Washington?

It used to be Al D'Amato and other Republicans who represented New York and Washington fought for transit, and it seems like instead of running an I Love New York campaign, those congressmen representing the New York region are running an I Hate New York campaign. They need to stand up for their 90% of their constituents who use mass transit, and I'm trying to get Lawler and the rest of those characters to speak up for mass transit funding in New York instead of attacking New York City and the MTA, which most of their constituents rely on.

Brian Lehrer: Your response, Congressman, and anything you want to say, and then we're out of time.

Congressman Lawler: We love New York. We hate Janno Lieber. He is one of the most incompetent administrators of a mass transit system in the country. The fact is, the MTA carries more debt than 80% of the states in the United States of America. It's unsustainable. They lose $700 million a year to people jumping the turnstiles, $1.4 billion to people refusing to pay the tolls. The congestion pricing scheme is just that: it's a scheme. It's a tax grab, grabbing $1 billion to borrow $15 billion more, and they still say they're short by tens of billions of dollars to fund the capital program. He is incompetent, and if I were governor, he would be fired on day one.

I've had conversations with Janno. I asked him about, for instance, west of Hudson rail service, and his response was, "Oh, that's New Jersey Transit's problem." No, it's not. The MTA contracts with New Jersey Transit. Rockland County pays $50 million more into the MTA every year than services they receive, and his answer to that is, "Oops, sorry, nothing we can do." So, no, this is not a function of not fighting for New York. It's a function of making sure an incompetent and corrupt MTA gets right-sized and fixed before they start squandering more of our taxpayer money.

Brian Lehrer: The views of Hudson Valley Congressman Mike Lawler, who also says he's going to decide in June whether he's running for governor next year. We always appreciate your time. Thanks very much.

Congressman Lawler: Thanks, Brian.

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