Brian: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. We started the show talking about the ballot questions in New York City related to housing. Now, to end the show, we want to spend a few minutes talking about the other ballot proposal. Question number 1: This is a statewide question in New York. It reads, "Allows skiing and related trail facilities on state forest preserve land. The site is 1,039 acres. Requires state to add 2,500 acres of new forest land in Adirondack Park."
It continues, "A yes vote authorizes new ski trails and related facilities in the Adirondack Forest Preserve. A no vote does not authorize this use." Why does everyone in the state have to vote on ski trails up in the mountains? What's the issue here? To find out what's going on, we're joined by our own Rosemary Misdary, WNYC and Gothamist health and science reporter. Hey, Rosemary.
Rosemary: Hi, Brian.
Brian: For downstaters who've never even spent time in the Adirondacks, and I have to say, I've been there more than 20 summers in my life, and I'm a lover of the Adirondacks. I assume this has something to do with the "Forever Wild" provision in the state constitution for such a vast amount of forest land. Why is this a ballot question?
Rosemary: It's a ballot question because it's an exemption to the New York state constitution. When you do that, you need the votes of all of the residents of New York in order to either accept it or reject it. You mentioned the Forever Wild. In Adirondack Park, it's a 6-million-acre park, about half of it is state-protected forest land, which means you can't cut a single tree without permission of New York voters because it's protected by the state constitution. It's supposed to remain forever wild.
Brian: It isn't like they decided to build ski trails in a vacuum. This, as I understand it, is about an expansion of the late Placid Olympic development that people might be familiar with, right?
Rosemary: Yes, it hosted the 1932 and 1980 Olympics. It's famous for having the oldest bobsled track in North America, and it's a big attraction in the Adirondacks. I've been there too. I've gone cross-country skiing there as well.
Brian: I've taken my mountain bike into that area, and it's like, "Oh, I get to ride on the area where they had the Olympics." The wrinkle here is, it's already happened, and that's why there's some upset, right? This clearing of forest land has already happened to a certain degree, and so they're asking the voters for retroactive permission?
Rosemary: Yes. It's been happening, not just for years, for decades. It starts with a parking lot here, a paved driveway there, a trail that needs to be extended, a building over there, and they've been doing that for decades. It has upset environmentalists. They don't have permission to do that because they're surrounded by state-protected forests. They can't just go out and decide to improve a trail and cut down trees that are in state-protected land. They need permission to do that, and they've already done it. Yes, you're right. They're asking for, it's basically a mea culpa, asking forgiveness for after the fact.
Brian: [chuckles] Don't ask for permission, ask for forgiveness. Instead of making them tear down what they've developed, the state negotiated a deal to acquire 2,500 acres elsewhere for additional forest land to compensate?
Rosemary: Yes. There's no timeline on when that will happen or where in the Adirondacks it'll happen, but it's supposed to be a minimum of 2,500 acres that will be added to the state-protected forest preserve.
Brian: We can get a couple of calls or texts in here, listeners, if you're undecided or if you want to electioneer. We call it electioneering now because voting has begun. 212-433-WNYC with our Rosemary Misdary, who's reporting on question 1 on the ballot statewide in New York, 212-433-9692. What a lot of listeners probably just want to know, who aren't involved in this, is what side are the environmental groups on if they're unanimous?
Rosemary: As I said before, the environmental groups, they have been upset for years for them cutting down trees and expanding without permission. They also realize once the tree is cut down, they can't get it back, and it just makes more sense to give them this exemption than to undo what's already been done. One interesting thing I want to bring up about this facility is it's the only Olympic facility in Lake Placid that doesn't have an exemption to do its improvements.
Gore Mountain, for example, it has an exemption to be able to do these improvements and expansions, but Mount Van Hoevenberg does not. A lot of environmental groups, they're on board with this. They see it as a win-win. They get 2,500 acres for giving them the facility 323 acres to do legitimate improvement, and it also places restrictions on the facility. They can't build hotels and condominiums and zip lines. They're restricted to doing work that is related to their activities, which is their cross-country skiing trails, their biathlon facility, things that just upkeep or expand on the activities they're already doing.
Brian: Alice in Queens, you're on WNYC. Hi, Alice.
Alice: Hi. Let me turn off my radio. I had just talked to a friend in Keene Valley this morning about this issue. He said that the Keene Democratic Committee is in support of the amendment. He said that he supposes there's almost universal support in this area, not just because of jobs, but there's a lot more than the proposal says. It cleans up a lot of the hiking trails. The Van Hoevenberg area is really, really beautiful. What else did he say? He said his support is unequivocal.
Brian: We have the Democratic Committee. In the Keene area, at least, we have most of the environmental groups. Who's opposed, Rosemary? Is this almost a consensus thing, but they need the official permission of the voters?
Rosemary: It's a consensus. This went through a long process in both the Senate and the Assembly. They both had to pass it. It was unanimous in the Senate. There was only one nay vote in the Assembly. I'm not saying it's unanimously supported, but it has overwhelming support. As the caller pointed out, this facility is a very popular facility. Not only does it provide jobs, but people in the area use the facility. People can go and use the bobsled track after you sign a whole bunch of waivers. It's a very popular facility.
Brian: Here's a skeptic in a text message who asks a very interesting question. "Will giving this exemption encourage more retroactive permission seeking? I'm inclined to vote no on Prop One," writes that listener. I guess to play devil's advocate, does this not encourage others to ask forgiveness, not permission, and do other things to destroy preserved lands, and then think they can somehow make up for it later?
Rosemary: The caller has a point. The Olympic Authority has a track record of doing stuff like this. They have a recent issue going on with the mountain biking trails that they put on Whiteface Mountain, and they didn't get the correct permission to be able to do that. Now they're doing the same thing. They're cutting into state forest preserve without permission. There is a point. They are going in and doing this in other places. One thing I think that saying yes to this does is that it actually puts boundaries at this facility specifically.
It says, "Here are your 323 acres that we're giving you on top of the more than 1,000 acres you already have, and you can't go outside of this area. These are the only things that you are allowed to do with this area." It puts restrictions on them, and it puts boundaries up at this facility. The caller does have a point, and that, in a lot of ways, it encourages asking for forgiveness later, but I also think it does put up restrictions in this specific area.
Brian: One more caller. Lauren in Westchester, you're on WNYC. Hi, Lauren.
Lauren: Hi. My question is, what are the consequences for violating the Constitution, and why haven't they been enacted?
Rosemary: I'm going to speak in reference to violating the "Forever Wild" rules. In the past, violations for violating the "Forever Wild" rules have resulted in fines. I know the DEC and the Adirondack Park Agency were sued for $32,000 because they were clearing protected forest preserve for snowmobile trails. The worst-case scenario for Mount Van Hoevenberg is that they have to remove the facilities they have built on the forest preserve it illegally used if they don't get approval. It is odd that they don't have an exemption that all the other Olympic facilities in Lake Placid have to be able to do this work.
Brian: I guess in our last 30 seconds, it goes to the question that I actually thought Lauren was going to answer, which is, what is the consequence if this is defeated?
Rosemary: If it's defeated, there is a possibility they could be fined like other past violations have been treated. Also, if the worst-case scenario also could include that they have to remove the trails and the buildings that they have put on the state forest preserve. Right.
Brian: All right. There you have it, folks, on New York State, ballot question 1 from WNYC's Rosemary Misdary. Rosemary, thanks for filling everybody in.
Rosemary: Thank you, Brian.
Brian: That's The Brian Lehrer Show for today, produced by Mary Croke, Lisa Allison, Amina Srna, Carl Boisrond, and Esperanza Rosenbaum. Zach Gottehrer-Cohen produces our daily politics podcast. Our interns this term are Amanda De Jesus and Miranda Santos. Megan Ryan is the head of live radio. We had Juliana Fonda and Amber Bruce at the audio control. Stay tuned for Alison.
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