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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. We're going to end today, for our last few minutes, with a call in on something that we've noticed is going on more than it used to. It's for anyone who has ditched your smartphone for a flip phone. Anybody like that listening right now? 212-433-WNYC. Why'd you do it, and how's that going for you, if you have ditched your smartphone for a flip phone? 212-433-9692.

We can extend it, if we don't have any actual new flip phone users, to if you also use one of those apps to limit your social media use. One of those apps that you find, that can stop you after a certain time, technologically, or you have to bypass it. Give us a call if you're doing either of those things. Who has ditched your smartphone for a flip phone or who's using an app that limits your social media use? 212-433-WNYC, 433-9692. We know that overuse of cell phones is a big issue for young people.

The Pew Research center estimates that 35% of American teenagers are using social media "almost constantly." What about you? Even if you're not a teenager, do you feel like you're addicted to your phone, or do you wish you used it less? Have you tried to change your habits? We're asking, have you even ditched your smartphone or downloaded one of those apps that helps you use your phone less? Who has a story? 212-433-WNYC, 433-9692.

You can still call on pre-iPhone relics, you can still text on a lot of them, but you can't access the web. Sometimes you can read articles on them, sometimes not. There are different gradations of those. Listeners, have you taken any of these technological steps to wean yourself off technology? 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. We know people are doing this. We've seen people talking about this. How about you help us report this story?

212-433-WNYC, 433-9692, and as your calls are coming in, joining us for a couple of minutes, from her dumb phone, is August Lamm, who is a writer, artist and anti-tech activist, calls herself, an author of the pamphlet called You Don't Need a Smartphone. Hey, thanks for joining us, August. You're on WNYC

August Lamm: Hi, Brian. Thanks for having me.

Brian Lehrer: I said you were joining us from your dumb phone. What kind of phone do you have?

August Lamm: I switch between phones. One of the perks of this work is that I get sent a lot of phones to try, and I haven't found any that are actually good. I guess that's the point, is they're all frustrating to use. I'm using the Punkt right now. Punkt. I've also used a Nokia. I've used a light phone before, an AGM. There are all sorts of models.

Brian Lehrer: You had an op ed in The New York Times in which you said you used to be an influencer in the art world before giving up your cell phone. Being an influencer in the art world sounds like something you would want to be, but now you can't anymore, because you rebelled against the technology, or how would you put it?

August Lamm: Well, the term influencer predates the idea of social media. You can hopefully have influence outside of social media, and you see that even in smaller social groups, you see people that are just seen as the popular person, or the person that knows what's going on. I don't see leaving social media as giving up my career, or any effects that I might have on the world.

I just got to the point where I felt like my values and my mission weren't aligned with the platform that I was using to spread them, so now I just operate as a person in the world. I meet people, I talk to people, I publish things. I get letters to my PO Box from people who've read my articles. I feel, if anything, more active than ever.

Brian Lehrer: Do you ever miss it?

August Lamm: No. Oh, my God. Why would I miss feeling that way? It's such a bad feeling. We all know it's bad. We all feel like it's bad. I talk to people every day who say they wish they could throw their phone into the sea, but you don't realize just how bad it is until you've fully detoxed. Then you look back on it, and it's-- Yes. I don't like the person that I was when I was using the device. I don't like the way I felt. I was never fully present. I didn't know what presence meant until I got rid of my smartphone.

Brian Lehrer: Do you have one piece of transition advice for anybody who might be hearing your story and saying, "Yes, I want to do that, but I don't know."

August Lamm: Yes, I would say there are ways to try it out, to start small, to keep your smartphone in a drawer when you leave the house, and see how it feels to be in social settings or to navigate without a smartphone. I think that's a great place to start. I will also say that, long term, there isn't really a moderate solution that's going to give you that real sense of integration into reality, because when you have it in your back pocket, literally or figuratively, you're going to be thinking in a way that is dependent on this technology instead of using your own mental resources, which have really atrophied over time for all of us.

I think start small, try it out, but if it feels good and if you're confident, or if you're just willing to take a bigger, more radical leap, then you have to get rid of it completely. You have to stop using it and just switch to a dumb phone. You can't really just do the app blockers, the time limits. That's going to create more anxiety, more fixation, and divert more attention towards this technology.

Brian Lehrer: Cold turkey. Total abstinence model for detoxing from your smartphone, from August Lamm, L-A-M-M, anti-tech activist and author of the pamphlet You Don't Need a Smartphone. Thanks for giving us a few minutes.

August Lamm: Yes, thanks, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: We've got about five minutes to get through some of your stories on whatever phones you're calling us from. Sam, in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. Hi, Sam.

Sam: Hi. I'm calling in from the landline of my house. I got rid of my smartphone about four months ago and I'm a lot happier with this landline.

Brian Lehrer: When you say landline, is it actually a wired phone being serviced by the phone company, or is it VoIP and you have a wireless handset, and it goes through your cable system, something like that?

Sam: I'm calling you from a classic on the wall kitchen landline with the spiraling wire that connects it to the phone.

Brian Lehrer: How old are you?

Sam: I just turned 25.

Brian Lehrer: Do your peers think you're weird?

Sam: My peers actually are the ones who got me hooked on the landline. One of them, he got rid of all his technology, only had his landline, and I saw that he was getting a lot more work done. I already wasn't on social media, but I saw how much work he was getting done now that he just didn't even have a phone. He put me on, and it's been great.

Brian Lehrer: Sam, thank you very much. Keep calling us on other things too. Charlotte, in Monmouth County, you're on WNYC. Hi, Charlotte.

Charlotte: Hi. I got a flip phone a few years ago. I had had a smartphone. I'm 32, and I'd had a smartphone for many years, like everyone. It's been a nice experience to deprogram my brain. I don't think I'm going to go back, unless I have to, for a job or something, in the future.

Brian Lehrer: Was it a hard decision for you?

Charlotte: To switch to the flip phone?

Brian Lehrer: Yes.

Charlotte: It was hard to make the switch for the first few days and weeks, I felt that phone itch that everyone feels. Actually, you still do feel it somewhat with a flip phone, because you still do check your texts and things like that, but after the first few days and weeks had passed, I found I really loved it. I was thinking about my phone so much less.

Brian Lehrer: Charlotte, thank you for your call. Call us again. All right. We've heard from people in their 20s and their 30s giving up their smartphones. Now we're going to hear from somebody in their 70s, they told our screener. Jan, in Manhattan, you're on WNYC. Hi, Jan.

Jan: Hi, Brian. I never had one of those iPhone things. I didn't want one. I could see that everybody was so attached to them. It's wonderful just being independent. I text. I can walk along the street. What I think I like the most about it is the tactile-- I feel like I'm typing on a typewriter. I know I have to press the two button three times to get to a C, but still, I can do it without looking at it. 99% accuracy.

Whenever I pull out my flip phone, when I'm in a dentist chair or something like that, they say, "Oh, wow, that's so cool. I wish I could do that." Most people are very envious.

Brian Lehrer: Is that a recent thing? Did people previously, I don't know, roll their eyes, and now, more recently, they're-

Jan: [crosstalk] Oh, probably yes.

Brian Lehrer: -calling the flip phone cool?

Jan: Yes, yes, that's probably true. I just never had a desire to get one. I don't want to be instantaneously attached to everything. When I walk on the street, I listen to you guys, actually. I have an old time radio, and I listen to that. That's my connection to the world when I'm out and about.

Brian Lehrer: [crosstalk] Keep up that good habit. Jan, thank you very much. Here's Sam, in Monmouth County, who's calling with a hybrid approach. Hi, Sam, you're on WNYC.

Sam: Hey. Yes, I wanted to go the dumb phone route. I looked into it a bunch, and I just felt like I wasn't fully willing to give up some of the genuine positives of a smartphone. I've gone with this approach that's a combination of the limitations that the iPhone can provide, including one of my favorites, which was making my screen black and white. I found that even just removing all the color reduced my interest in the phone.

At this point, I have tried the time limiters, but I've just deleted social media entirely from my phone. It's garbage. It makes me feel bad, and it wastes my time. I've gotten rid of that. I've turned off various parts of notifications, whether it's badges, sounds, vibration, everything that really just reduces my phone from taking my attention. I still have the phone, so I can call a cab if I need to. I can check maps. I can do the things that I need to do out in the world, to have that instantaneous control.

Brian Lehrer: Sam, thank you for your call. We'll end with a text that came in on one of those limiting apps. Says, "I started using ScreenZen a year or two ago. Before my social media apps will open, I get a screen that says, is this important? If I say yes, I have to wait seven seconds for the app to open, and the app then closes after seven minutes. It's usually helpful. I have it set to keep me off social media from 10:00 AM to 11:00 PM.

I find that late at night, I'll scroll for about an hour, but during the day, I will spend less than 10 minutes, thanks to ScreenZen," says Ann in Brooklyn. It's not for everybody, but seems like it's for more and more people. Thanks for your calls and texts on that one. That's The Brian Lehrer Show for today, produced by Mary Croke, Lisa Allison, Amina Srna, Carl Boisrond, and Esperanza Rosenbaum.

Our intern this term is Henry Serringer. Zach Gottehrer-Cohen produces our Daily Politics podcast. Juliana Fonda at the audio controls. Stay tuned for Alison.

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