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Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning, everyone. I know the main event at the DNC last night was Kamala Harris's acceptance speech, and we'll play several key moments from that speech throughout the show and discuss how she was pitching herself to undecided or uncommitted voters, but let's start with this from last night, perhaps the cutest one-minute takedown of Donald Trump's racism that you'll ever hear. Cutest because it came from two little kids, two little kids who happen to be grandnieces of Kamala Harris.

As you will hear, they were introduced by Kerry Washington, who made the point about why they were doing this without ever mentioning Donald Trump's name.

Kerry Washington: It's come to my attention that there are some folks who struggle, or pretend to struggle with the proper pronunciation of our future president's name. Hear me out; confusion is understandable, disrespect is not. Tonight, we are going to help everyone get it right. Here to help me are some very special guests.

[applause]

Kerry Washington: Thank you, ladies. Can you tell us your names?

Amara: Hello, everybody. My name is Amara.

Leela: And my name is Leela, her little sister.

Kerry Washington: And what are you here to do?

Amara: To teach you how to say our auntie's name.

Kerry Washington: Okay, so how do you pronounce it?

Amara: First you say 'Kama' like a comma in a sentence.

Leela: Then you say 'la' like la, la, la.

Kerry Washington: Put it together, and it's one, two, three--

Kerry, Amara & Leela: Comma-la.

Kerry Washington: All right, so let's practice. Let's practice.

Amara: Everybody over here say, "Comma-la."

Crowd: Comma-la.

Leela: Everybody over here say, "La."

Crowd: La.

Kerry Washington: Together.

Crowd: Comma-la. Comma-la. Comma-la.

Kerry Washington: For president.

Brian Lehrer: Yes, it's 'Kama,' like the comma in a sentence, as the girl said, and 'la,' like la, la, la, la. It's okay to be confused, it's another thing to be disrespectful, said Kerry Washington. Some people only pretend not to be able to pronounce the name. Before we play acceptance speech clips and open the phones for your reactions to that, let's start there with our morning-after guest, Fordham University political science professor Christina Greer, who is also co-host of the podcast FAQ NYC, and author of the book Black Ethnics.

Hey, Christina. I was going to say thanks for getting up early after a late-night speech, but I saw you on TV this morning really early, so extra thanks for keeping on, keeping on, and welcome back to WNYC.

Christina Greer: Thanks, Brian. Anything for you, of course.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you. I was thinking to myself, "When will you sleep?" Then I remembered the inspiring, I guess, but maybe also a little cringy line from Tim Walz this week that football coaches sometimes say to their teams, I gather, you'll sleep when you're dead. [laughs] Go ahead.

Christina Greer: No, I do sleep. I also subscribe to the Bill de Blasio school of napping. I definitely believe in naps.

Brian Lehrer: Well, I'll just say it's also a line in a Bon Jovi song, it's also a line in a Warren Zevon song, and it's actually very bad health advice. Anyway, how do you like Kerry Washington and Kamala's nieces?

Christina Greer: I love the fact that they did that because they're addressing Donald Trump and quite honestly, his racism. I always remind my students, Brian, your name is something that your parents have given you, and just because it's not Brian or Christina, it may be something from your particular culture, it is incumbent upon us to learn the proper pronunciation and not just say, "Oh, fine, that's whatever," especially since we know that people can say sports figures' names no matter how "complex" they are.

It's like thinking about the diversification of hockey and basketball and football. Folks can get those names perfectly. It was a wonderful moment, A, to introduce another element of Kamala Harris's family, but B, to say, for all these people who deliberately mispronounce her name-- First of all, it's consonant, vowel, consonant, vowel, consonant. You can't--

Brian Lehrer: Not the hardest thing in the world.

Christina Greer: Not at all. It's a deliberate way to try another Vice President Harris. I thought it was a really great way to be succinct, to introduce her family, and to also address some of these issues head on.

Brian Lehrer: Yes, and it was one of many takedowns of Trump that used humor this week. Many conventions in the past have done that too. We talked earlier in the week on the show, "George Bush was born with a silver foot in his mouth," said Ann Richards, former Democratic governor of Texas once upon a time, and lots of other examples. To your point, Trump doesn't do this by accident. It's like saying Barack Hussein Obama, which he said again this week.

It's intended to make the Democratic presidential nominee seem foreign, seem other. I think of it as a strategic deployment of racism or of people's susceptibility to racism. Do you?

Christina Greer: Absolutely, Brian. Donald Trump has done that consistently, not just with Barack Hussein Obama, which he always puts in all caps, but deliberately mispronouncing her name. Because he does that, other members of the Republican Party who have once said her name properly now purposely mispronounce her name. It's also a subtle nod to many people who live in America who don't, again, have names like Brian and Christina, who are Americans, and they should be treated with the same dignity and respect.

I don't know if you know how many times you all counted this, but Kamala Harris said the word dignity several times in her speech. I think that's an element that's been missing from the Trump circus that we've had to endure for the past few years. I think it was a pitch-perfect tone to address this because, again, Kamala Harris can't be seen as the angry woman. She definitely can't be seen as the angry Black woman. She has to use humor and charm, I'm sure a lot of your female listeners will know exactly what I'm talking about, to deflect a lot of the insecurities of the people, specifically men that she'll have to deal with on the national and international stage.

Brian Lehrer: All right. Onto the Harris acceptance speech, one of the goals was to further introduce herself to a wider television audience than the people who always pay attention to politics. One of the ways she did that was to tell a story from her childhood of one of the reasons she decided to become a prosecutor.

Kamala Harris: You see, when I was in high school, I started to notice something about my best friend Wanda. She was sad at school, and there were times she didn't want to go home. So one day I asked if everything was all right, and she confided in me that she was being sexually abused by her stepfather. And I immediately told her she had to come stay with us, and she did. This is one of the reasons I became a prosecutor, to protect people like Wanda, because I believe everyone has a right to safety, to dignity, and to justice.

Brian Lehrer: Harris from last night. Fordham political science professor Christina Greer, our guest. Christina, it seems to me that story might have had at least two different target audiences, middle-American swing voters, if you want to call them that, who wonder if a Democrat, never mind a Black woman Democrat, is going to take crime seriously, so reminding people that her aspiration and a large part of her career was to be a prosecutor, but also to some Black voters and others skeptical of Harris for that.

You know that an earlier knock on her from the left was Kamala is a cop, but she framed her work as a prosecutor there as to protect people from things like sexual abuse, which would be a progressive priority, among other things. How did you hear the point of that story in that speech?

Christina Greer: Both end, Brian, absolutely. We know that Black mayors always have to be tough on crime because there's this assumption that Black mayors won't be. Again, Kamala Harris, she was speaking in many different frequencies in this speech last night. On the one, why did I become a prosecutor? What is the motivation? She's consistently making the case for America, Kamala for the people, Kamala representing the people, but then we know that there's a lot of misinformation and disinformation out there from her time as a district attorney, from her time as attorney general.

A lot of that misinformation and disinformation coming from social media, specifically trying to target Black men so they will be disinterested in, not just Kamala Harris, but the electoral process writ large. Making that case as to why she needed to be in the room at those tables as a prosecutor to make sure she puts away the people who should be behind bars and in various speeches that she's made, not just last night, but to the big crowds that she and Tim Walz have been receiving across the country, really specifically outlining her role as a prosecutor and what prosecutors should do and why diversity within that class of people is essential.

I think as she continues beyond the introductory phase or the re-introductory phase as the top of the ticket, the framing of who she is as a prosecutor, especially going against Donald Trump with his 34 convictions, it's somewhat of a needle that she's got to thread, but so far, she's making the case.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, your reactions from left, right, or center or wherever you're coming from, to Kamala Harris's convention speech, and now that it's over, the whole DNC at 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. Or questions for Fordham political science professor Christina Greer, 212-433-9692. Call or text. Here's a text that's already come in before we move too far from the moment of Kamala's nieces and the lesson on how to pronounce her name. A listener writes, "Did you see Colbert's lesson on pronouncing Donald? 'Don' as in mafia chief, 'old' as in his age." [laughs]

There's the other half of that courtesy of Colbert and a listener who, I guess, saw Colbert. Another thing about Kamala Harris's speech, and I think about the whole Harris campaign so far, was not leaning heavily into the historic fact that she would be a historic first, a woman of any kind as president, a Black and South Asian woman, no less. Here, I think, is as close as she came last night in this story about her mother.

Kamala Harris: My mother was a brilliant, five-foot-tall, brown woman with an accent. And as the eldest child, I saw how the world would sometimes treat her, but my mother never lost her cool. She was tough, courageous, a trailblazer in the fight for women's health, and she taught Maya and me a lesson that Michelle mentioned the other night. She taught us to never complain about injustice but do something about it. Do something about it.

Brian Lehrer: She kind of hinted at identity and came back to Justice Harris last night. Can you reflect on that clip or the campaign's relationship to the firsts that she would be?

Christina Greer: Right. I think, Brian, we saw in 2016 with Hillary Clinton really articulating how important it would be to have a female president, the first female president [unintelligible 00:12:41] the last democracies of our prestige level that has not had a female leader. We don't see Kamala Harris doing that. I think a lot of folks can look at her and see her racial and ethnic backgrounds plural, and they can see her gender.

She's leaning into the family narrative and how her background looks a lot like the blended backgrounds of so many millions upon millions of Americans and also the policy prescriptives that she will enact if she and Tim Walz are successful on November 5th. Leaning into the descriptive representation isn't as at the front and center as it was, say, in 2016. It's the substantive that I think the Harris campaign is really leaning into. How are we going to tackle some of these economic issues and concerns that Americans have? How are we going to bridge the divides, not just domestically, but internationally, when it comes to public opinion on a myriad of issues?

I think that's the direction, the substantive representation direction that the campaign is going in. I think that's a much more concrete direction that's going to be successful in November as opposed to leaning on the fact that she would be a historic first.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, this is a question that you might want to answer for yourself or riff on for yourself if you are a woman or a Black woman in particular, or an Indian American woman in particular, how are you relating emotionally what it would mean, potentially for approaches to issues or in any other way, to the potential for Kamala Harris to become those firsts as President of the United States. If you were paying attention in 2016 and it meant something to you when Hillary Clinton was running, is it different for you now? I'd be curious.

Maybe you're thinking about this. Maybe you want to say something about this, some of you. 212-433-WNYC. Our phones are open for that at 212-433-9692, or you can text. I guess my impression of the convention in this respect was that besides whatever Kamala Harris herself was or wasn't saying, the convention put those firsts in other people's mouths. Hillary Clinton talked about the glass ceiling, for example. She used those words while Harris did not. Yes?

Christina Greer: Absolutely. Having the Obamas there, having the Clintons there, represents a passing of the torch. Hillary Clinton, in many ways, the first don’t always make it fully across the finish line. We saw even with Barack Obama's presidency, you don’t get to fulfill all of your dreams and wishes. The combination of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton is encapsulated in a lot of the Harris campaign. I think also the existential threat that is always out there, that is a second term of Donald Trump. He did the smash-and-grab the first term. This could be a lot more methodical as a project 2025 has laid out.

Leaning more into the policy, leaning more into the future of what this country could look like and should look like is where the campaign is focusing on. I think you can use surrogates to talk about the importance of the intersection of race, ethnicity, and gender. I am not trying to devalue that at all. With such a short runway before November 5th, I think the policy concerns on the minds of a lot of Americans can be woven into her personal story, but her personal story is not the only piece and the first and foremost piece that the Harris campaign is leaning into.

Brian Lehrer: Going back to her referencing prosecuting sexual abuse as a prosecutor, a listener notes in a text, "It also contrasts Kamala against the felon who has sexually abused women." More clips from the Harris acceptance speech and one other speech from last night I couldn't help but notice and pull a clip from. More with political science professor Christina Greer. More of your questions and thoughts at 212-433-WNYC. Stay tuned.

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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC on the morning after the end of the Democratic convention, including Vice President Harris's acceptance speech. The opening acts, if you want to think of them that way from last night, also had many interesting moments. Here's one more of those. The youngest member of Congress got a speaking slot, Congressman Maxwell Frost from Central Florida, 27 years old, and he made this case for fighting the climate crisis being an act of patriotism.

Congressman Maxwell Frost: Fighting the climate crisis is patriotic. And unlike Donald Trump, our patriotism is more than some damn slogan on a hat. It's about actually giving a damn about the people who live in this country. Because when you love somebody, you want them to have clean air. When you love somebody, you want them to have safe drinking water. And when you love somebody, you want them to have a dignified job. And so, America, it's simple. Let's get to work and elect Kamala Harris and Tim Walz for our planet, for our future, for our present, and for our people. God bless.

Brian Lehrer: 27-year-old Congressman Maxwell Frost with one of the themes of the convention, identifying Democratic Party goals as patriotic goals. Harris did that too in her speech. Here's one example of that.

Kamala Harris: We are the heirs to the greatest democracy in the history of the world. And on behalf of our children and our grandchildren and all those who sacrificed so dearly for our freedom and liberty, we must be worthy of this moment. It is now our turn to do what generations before us have done, guided by optimism and faith, to fight for this country we love, to fight for the ideals we cherish, and to uphold the awesome responsibility that comes with the greatest privilege on earth, the privilege and pride of being an American.

So let's get out there, let's fight for it. Let's get out there, let's vote for it, and together, let us write the next great chapter in the most extraordinary story ever told. Thank you. God bless you, and may God bless the United States of America. Thank you all.

Brian Lehrer: That's not our last clip in this segment, but that's how the speech ended last night, the most extraordinary story ever told. Fordham political science professor Christina Greer with us now. Listeners, your reactions to that are welcome at 212-433-WNYC. Christina, the lead angle in the New York Times morning newsletter today was called Why Harris's Centrism Is Working. The author, David Leonhardt, wrote, "It was a patriotic speech that was hawkish on foreign policy and border security. She described the United States as the greatest country in the world, a view many Americans hold but most Democratic voters do not."

He linked to a poll from 2022 that I clicked through to see what he was referring to, and it showed that most Democrats would not call the US the greatest country in the world, but most Republicans would. Most Democrats did say that the US is a great country, just not the greatest, while Republicans sounded soundly rejected, that framing only calling us the greatest country polled well with Republicans.

If Harris was trying to speak past her obvious Democratic supporters into the center of the political spectrum, I guess my question is, do you think that's what she was doing, and does she risk seeming tone-deaf to this country’s problems to some people on the left?

Christina Greer: No, I don't think there's that risk, Brian. This is now the general election season. when we think about a distribution curve, Kamala Harris is trying to move herself towards the center and gather as many median voters as possible. This is what we see with most presidents, Donald Trump being the exception. Most presidents scoot to the middle as much as they can and as quickly as they can without isolating the base of the Democratic Party. There are many Americans who obviously believe that America is the greatest.

Now, I would be so fascinated to see a cross-tabulation of the data. Democrats tend to travel internationally a lot more than Republicans. Democrats tend to have passports at greater rates than Republicans. When you've traveled to other countries, you realize America is great but is not the greatest necessarily. You see transportation and trash pickup and how other countries educate their children and have universal pre-k, and it's not a fight, or vegetables or environmental concerns. Whatever it may be, you recognize other countries in some ways are light years ahead of the United States.

That conversation, that framing that America is the greatest, this is a stump speech. This is in many ways, it felt like a State of the Union speech. No one running for the presidency except for Donald Trump would say that America is second-rate. He's the one who's saying that the country is rubbish and it's gone to pot and what should we do? In some ways, it's a rhetorical choice. In other ways, it's a way to frame how we as Americans can collectively work together to continue making "the greatest nation."

The pivot from this patriotic rhetoric that Democrats are always accused of not having can also be used when Kamala Harris critiques some of the ills that have befallen our country based on either Republican policies or Donald Trump himself explicitly. I think all this being laid out is something that, it doesn't necessarily isolate Democratic voters, but it does help weak-leaning Republicans and independent voters who are looking for the language that they're accustomed to as a reason to start moving closer to a Harris-Walz ticket because they are exhausted by the prospect of another Donald Trump term, because they are uncomfortable with the direction that Donald Trump has put our country in as far as the negativity and the debasing of American values.

I think it's a strategic choice, and granted, this is just one of the first of many big speeches Kamala Harris will give to the American public before November 5th.

Brian Lehrer: Listener writes, "I'm a Black female professor, a listener who generally dislikes politics to the point where I had been making plans to leave the country when I retire next year. The tables have now been turned. I have been riveted to the TV all week, had never before watched more than one or two speeches, but now, with Kamala leading the ticket and Walz representing middle America, a light has been turned on in this country." There's one text. Another one on this idea of America as the greatest country, listener writes, "Fine to be an American and a Nigerian and a Surinamese. Hold the triumphalism, please."

I guess, Christina, you could hear the word privilege in that clip in different ways when she talks about being an American, being the greatest privilege on earth. It could be purely, "This country is so great, it's a privilege to be part of it," or it could be like, "Check your privilege by acknowledging your privilege." She did cite an awesome responsibility, as she put it, that comes with that greatest privilege, not just like we are so great. Some artful speech writing there that I guess was intended to be heard either way.

Christina Greer: Right. I think what will be fascinating to see in these upcoming weeks and possibly if Kamala Harris is successful after November 5th is the multiple frequencies that she's speaking to Americans in her various speeches. As a child of not one but two immigrants, she's speaking about the privilege of checking one's privilege because we are here and we also have a responsibility to provide dignity to others who are trying to come here, but I think in a foreign policy perspective, thinking about why it is that so many people want to come here, why is it that this country serves as a beacon of hope and potential prosperity for millions upon millions of people from around the world, her parents included.

The quiet double entendres in which she's spoken in this particular speech I think will be the beginning of really complicated questions she is grappling with. I think many Americans are grappling with, especially, let's stick with immigration, so many Americans believe that this is fundamentally a nation of immigrants. It always has been. We've always had rough ways that we've incorporated or failed to incorporate immigrants over time. We can think about European immigrants, and now we can think about immigrants from South and Central America and the Caribbean and elsewhere.

As we continue to have this very real American conversation that we've had time and time again, how do we collectively appreciate the fact that the vast majority of people, not all specifically, are children of immigrants, descendants of immigrants, but also having comprehensive policies that she is responsible for as commander in chief, as the President of the United States, as border control, and sort of thinking about the Sunbelt states and their concerns about different types of immigration without demonizing immigrants the way we've seen Donald Trump and the Republican Party do for so long.

Brian Lehrer: Interestingly, we got three texts in a row just now from phone numbers in three different area codes, all saying that the listener was crying last night during the speech. One writes, "I am a white, affluent, suburban, 60-year-old woman, a wife, mother, and retired teacher. I was in tears throughout Kamala Harris's speech. She was strong, she was genuine, she was passionate, she was spectacular. I have not felt this much hope since 2008 when President Obama was running."

The one after that says," I'm a 73-year-old woman who marched and fought for women's rights my whole life. I was ecstatic and wept tears of joy when the glass ceiling shattered on the stage at Hillary's nomination and equally devastated on election night. I feel that the times have chosen Kamala Harris at this particular moment to finally defeat Donald because I cannot listen to that man's voice any longer. I welcome the fresh, young talent in politics these days."

Then the one above that, "Listening to the close of Harris's speech on your air this morning brings the same chills and tears as last night," and that says, "From a white, middle-aged guy." [chuckles] Janet in Ulster County is calling, and we're going to reflect back to the clip we played of the young congressman, Maxwell Frost, from last night saying, fighting the climate crisis is patriotic. Janet, I think you wanted to hear more like that, right?

Janet: Yes, I did. I also identify with the three women you quoted before. I was also in tears, and I think we need to be worthy of the privileges that we enjoy as Americans. That's not what I called in about. I was disappointed to not hear her say anything about the environment herself. Also, I don't think she's given a clear explanation of why she is now backed away from being opposed to fracking.

Brian Lehrer: Janet, thank you. Christina, anything on that? I saw one article, I don't even remember where, I've been reading so much this week and the notifications come flying across my phone, I'm sure you have the same pattern, but there was one article somewhere that referenced to them purposely downplaying some of the most progressive left priorities. One of the ones on that list was student debt. Another one on that list was climate.

Christina Greer: Right. I think as we move to the general portion of the campaign, we may see the muting of particular issues. That doesn't mean that they're off the table. I think strategically there may be, as you're trying to get as many people in the center to turn out for you, I think that there's certain issues that either the question's been asked and answered and they already know which way they're going so they don't need to keep talking about it because the internal polling says that it's not necessarily popular with the vast majority of voters.

I think this is going to be one of those instances where it's like, don't let perfection be the enemy of the good. If we're doing a cross-benefit analysis like on the environment, we have seen what Donald Trump has done. We've seen what Democrats writ large have done. The key, though, is to keep pressuring your electeds, and that means making sure you keep those issues on the local level so then they get bumped up to the state levels then they get bumped up to the federal level. That's what I would say about that piece.

The second piece, though, Brian, really quickly, is about the three callers who wrote in. I think the emotion is great, but we must translate the emotion into work. I cite [unintelligible 00:31:16] brilliant piece, Hiding in Plain Sight. There are a lot of white voters who have been inspired by the Democratic Party and they have voted for Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton and plan to vote for Kamala Harris, but they have not done the proselytizing to their own family members and community members to help them understand why it is that their loved ones need to also vote for Kamala Harris.

The personal vote at this time around is not enough. There are lots of people who are like, "Well, I voted for Hillary Clinton even though everyone else in my family didn't." This time around, we know the dangers of that type of rhetoric. It is incredibly important for people who have been inspired to then do that second step, which is to make sure other people in their lives understand the real and credible threats that a second Donald Trump presidency proposes, but also making sure they're not voting for-- No one's voting for a perfect candidate.

No presidential candidate has ever been perfect, so making sure other people understand that they themselves need to get out and vote. It's not enough just to pat yourself on the back because you did the hard work.

Brian Lehrer: Yes, that deploying people to make sure that other people understand. That's really interesting, and it kind of answers a question that I've had in my mind all week, which is, who was this convention for? Because I was thinking, except for Harris's own speech last night, it didn't always seem like a four-day TV commercial for people they're trying to sell to who would be new to them, as opposed to a political rally for their side to keep them working for the cause. Because a lot of it, like Walz's pep talk Wednesday night, but also other speeches, seemed like talking to people in the hall, not the 20 million people watching, those who are already the most fervent Democrats to get them pumped up to fight.

Christina Greer: Right. Well, because there's been a malaise, Brian. There are so many people before Joe Biden's big debate in June who essentially had said, "Oh, well, Donald Trump's going to take it again, and what can you do?" There was this fait accompli that the race was over, even though we weren't even out of June. In many ways, these conventions are a rallying cry for your base so that you can go out and talk to members of your community.

I think the good thing about the post-Trump era, if you will, is that there have been so many local organizations and activists who have already been doing the work. Can you coordinate those individuals who care about particular issues, whether it's the environment or women's right to choose or voting rights, whatever it may be, and link them with the folks who were in Chicago who are fired up and ready to go? The fired-up and ready-to-go people linking up with the people who have already been doing the work, that is a fantastic combination.

The data has shown us Democrats win the popular election. I don't think that's going to be a question as far as Kamala Harris is concerned. It's whether or not she can win the Electoral College. It has been a fantastic week for Democrats and there's a lot of excitement, but the reality is that the Electoral College map is not just a Democratic map. Can you make sure that the folks who have been organizing in places like Wisconsin and Michigan and Pennsylvania and North Carolina and Virginia and Florida-- are they ready to go?

Are they going to use the infrastructure that has been in place, say, for example, Georgia, to make sure that you don't have, again, white voters, in particular, white women more specifically, saying, "Well, I did the right thing, but no one else did in my community or in my family."

Brian Lehrer: I noticed that you used the F-word just there, Florida, which she's doing so well in the recent polls. It could be in play as a swing state again for the first time in like 20 years. On holding some issues back from the center like you were saying about climate, now that they're in the general election phase, we have to talk about how there was definitely tension behind the scenes at the convention over Israel and Gaza and how to treat the group of delegates that were from the camp known as Uncommitted, mostly those who dissent from the Biden-Harris policy since October 7th, especially continuing to arm Israel with as many people who are being killed in Gaza. Here's how Harris addressed the war last night.

Kamala Harris: With respect to the war in Gaza, President Biden and I are working around the clock because now is the time to get a hostage deal and a ceasefire deal done. And let me be clear, I will always stand up for Israel's right to defend itself, and I will always ensure Israel has the ability to defend itself because the people of Israel must never again face the horror that a terrorist organization called Hamas caused on October 7, including unspeakable sexual violence and the massacre of young people at a music festival.

At the same time, what has happened in Gaza over the past 10 months is devastating. So many innocent lives lost, desperate, hungry people fleeing for safety over and over again. The scale of suffering is heartbreaking. President Biden and I are working to end this war such that Israel is secure, the hostages are released, the suffering in Gaza ends, and the Palestinian people can realize their right to dignity, security, freedom, and self-determination.

Brian Lehrer: There was Harris last night. I think Nouri in Bay Ridge calling in was maybe less than moved. Nouri, you're on WNYC. Hello.

Nouri: Wow, Brian, what a pleasure and an honor to even speak to you. I've been a lifelong friend of your father. I grew up watching MacNeil/Lehrer. I'm 51 years old from Bay Ridge at Central Park, Brooklyn.

Brian Lehrer: [laughs] No, no, no. I'm not related to Jim Lehrer. Just want to clarify that.

Nouri: Oh my gosh, you're not? I'm so sorry. I always thought you were.

Brian Lehrer: No, no. Only in spirit, totally, but not related. In fact, he once came on the show, we decided to do a fun thing. He came on the show because so many people made that assumption, that we both traced our roots, mine to East European Jews, his to Lutheran Germans via Texas, mine via the Lower East Side.

Nouri: Oh my God, How interesting. I apologize.

Brian Lehrer: Anyway, that's not why you called.

Nouri: No, that's not why I called. As I discussed earlier with the young lady who vetted the call, my father was Palestinian, rest in peace to him, and my mother is Native American, Scotch-Irish and Black, Blackfoot Indian mixed with Scotch-Irish and Black, respectively, from my grandparents. I do have to tell you, I grew up with a woman of ethnicity and a Latino Irish immigrant, Latino immigrant community. I grew up very patriotic, very American, went to Brooklyn Technical High School.

I honestly didn't even really think so much about being Palestinian until I learned about what was going on. As far as the first intifada, I started reading Edward Said. What I wanted to say rather succinctly, because I don't want to take up too much time, is that I was so happy to see that a woman and a woman of ethnicity had the opportunity to be President of the United States. I think it's so powerful, sends a message to the entire world that the old regime is out and that we need new blood in politics, but my big problem with Kamala is that she seems to feel the urgent need to pander to the Israeli lobby.

Me, personally, as a person with a father who's Palestinian, I tell my friends all the time, one of the greatest things I'd love to do is see Neil Diamond perform live in Tel Aviv and a peaceful Israel. I do not hate Jewish people. My daughter is named after Anne Frank, my daughter Anne, Kayla Anne rather. I love Jewish culture. I love Jewish history. I think this narrative of anti-Semitism when it comes to the defense of the Palestinian people and what they've been going through for seven-plus decades is outrageous, and I think that Kamala Harris shows the American people and the world a far more intellectual resonance with what she's saying, I think, just basically covering the bases.

I understand that the speaker you have on the call right now said how important it is to get a lot of these people that are non-committed to the center so that we can just get this thing done and get Donald Trump out of the office, but out of the race, one thing I wanted to say is that of both candidates, Donald Trump is the only person, and I'm not a fan of Donald Trump, I'm not really a fan of Kamala, I don't really know which way I'm going to go here, but one thing I want to say is Donald Trump was the only person I've seen admit on public television that when he spoke to Netanyahu, he got a sincere feeling from Netanyahu that he doesn't want a two-state solution.

That it was actually the Palestinians that really wanted peace, and that Netanyahu was just crossing the T's and dotting the I's on a decades-long program of exterminating and disenfranchising the Palestinians. I thought, wow, how interesting that Donald Trump was able to pull that information out of this meeting. I expect so much more from Kamala. As a woman of ethnicity, I feel like she should completely understand that women and children are being decimated right now in Gaza. I think that one thing that we have to do--

Brian Lehrer: Nouri, let me go for time, but finish up real quick.

Nouri: Yes. Well, one thing I'd like to say is it's always been my sincere desire to get the women and children of Palestine and Israel united. I think we need to focus on our similarities, the fact that we're human beings, the fact that we're parents, the fact that we rear children. We want our children to be safe. We want them to be educated. We want our kids to grow up skateboarding, listening to great music, becoming worldly children. I don't think it's fair that the Israeli government sees any future for Palestinian children. We've just decimated three generations of Palestinians in the last 10 months in Gaza.

Brian Lehrer: Nouri, let me leave it there. Thank you very much for your call. I appreciate it. I hear how heartfelt that is and how many ways you're coming from. Christina, I don't know about that Donald Trump-Netanyahu moment or that Trump ever signaled in any way that he thinks the Palestinians are the ones who generally genuinely want a two-state solution, but I do want to acknowledge that I let Nouri speak there for a number of people who are calling in and texting and very unhappy with that aspect of the convention.

Christina Greer: Yes, I think that this is the real tightrope that Kamala Harris has to walk, not just until November 5th, but beyond, because we saw when she was confronted in the first big rally, she says, essentially, do you want Donald Trump to win? Get on board, or if not, he's the other solution. She received feedback from a lot of Democrats who said, that's actually not the answer. We do understand the existential threat that Donald Trump poses working with foreign entities, the economic interests that he and his family have in the region.

I think in the next few months, don't forget, Joe Biden is still working on this issue. It's not as though it's just Kamala Harris. We saw that Joe Biden was working on various issues, even right up until the moment that he said he's passing the baton to Kamala Harris. This is also quite difficult to do when you have Donald Trump using his own personal cell phone to try and undercut any progress that could be made because he knows it will ultimately help the Democratic Party.

Honestly, Brian, this might be above my pay grade in the sense that this is, what, we're talking seven decades plus, that we have not been able to figure this out, and Kamala Harris, in many ways, is being asked to figure it out in the next two months. One, I'm trying to have somewhat a teeny bit of patience and grace even with knowing some of the atrocities that are going on in the Middle East, plural, but the level of patience, I think, for a lot of Democrats is wearing thin. They want some concrete policy prescriptives within the next few weeks.

Brian Lehrer: We played Harris from the stage on that. Behind the scenes, we know a request for a Palestinian to have a speaking slot was turned down. USA Today reports this morning that the pressure on Harris over the devastation in Gaza isn't only coming from the streets, meaning the protesters who were outside this week, but they write, "Uncommitted delegates locked arm--" because there's that group called Uncommitted. They're generally uncommitted because they're opposed to the Israel-Gaza policy of the Biden-Harris administration.

It says, "Uncommitted delegates locked arm in arm and attempted to enter the convention floor but were reportedly barred from returning to their seats." How do you see the strategy behind the convention's decisions not to allow a Palestinian to speak from the stage? I know we talked about it on yesterday's show. The parents of the Jewish American hostage still being held in Gaza did give a nod to Palestinian suffering, but they didn't put a Palestinian human up there. What kind of work does Harris have yet to do on this?

I did think there would be more disruption, more overt disruption during the proceedings this week by the Uncommitted delegates, but that didn't seem to happen, or it didn't seem to make it onto TV.

Christina Greer: Right, I think that part, and just making sure the optics of a unified convention. I think the Uncommitted Movement in their list of demands has to also make sure they thread a fine needle with making sure they don't ostracize people who support their cause and believe in their cause but don't want them to undercut the possibility of Kamala Harris being successful. They don't want to suppress turnout. Some people are single-issue voters, and for a lot of the Uncommitted, this is their single issue, by and large.

I don't know if you follow some of the debates that have been going on on social media between Black activists and Uncommitted activists and those tensions between walking and chewing gum at the same time. We're holding the Democratic Party ticket's feet to the flames to make sure that a ceasefire is reached and that Palestinian voices are heard, acknowledged, and given equal top billing, but also recognizing the larger existential threat that a Donald Trump's second term could pose to not just Black people, but Americans writ large.

I think this is what the Harris campaign is really trying to detangle to figure out what is the policy position that satisfies the most number of individuals and gives her the greatest chance of actually being successful on November 5th, especially since the electoral math is not necessarily in the Democratic Party's favor.

Brian Lehrer: What happens now, life is not a convention, between now and November 5th?

Christina Greer: I think cross country. Unlike the Republican Party, Kamala Harris actually has a vice-presidential running mate who can actually do the work without her. He's a rallying cry. He's a white, middle-aged man who can speak to certain constituencies that may be more open to listening to him and his story and his family story. Talking about middle class, he has a pension, and he's not a fancy lawyer. He's not really educated. He can put on his cap and his flannel and reach parts of the country in many ways the same way Obama deployed Joe from Scranton to do, as his surrogate.

Donald Trump doesn't have that luxury. We've seen JD Vance be a spectacular disaster on the campaign trail. I think it's crisscrossing the country to answer questions. For whatever reason, there's this big balloon hanging over the Harris-Walz ticket saying, "Well, we don't know anything about policy." If you listen to what they've been saying at these massive rallies, they're talking about policy. Now, it has been one month. Walz has been on the ticket for a touch over two and a half weeks. They will hone in their message.

I think it's part listening tour but part policy tour to help Americans understand not just the threat. That's not enough for a lot of Americans. They want to know as they go to the polls for pocketbook issues, what are you doing for me? What are you doing for my family? What are you doing for the future of this country economically, such that we are moving in a forward direction? By and large, they've started that conversation by saying we're moving forward and we're not going back. We don't want to return to yesterday whatever yesterday looks like in the mind of Donald Trump.

Thus far, the rhetoric is there, and we'll see how effective they are hitting up those 11 key states but also keeping that momentum right from all states or red states if you're not careful. Just ask New York. So, making sure you keep that momentum from this past month to galvanize voters to do the work on the ground but then for the two of them, Harris and Walz, to articulate the vision.

Brian Lehrer: On the centrality of the economic vision, listeners, later in the show, we're going to have the Nobel Prize-winning economist and New York Times columnist Paul Krugman, who's been writing about what he calls Kamalanomics. We'll get the parts that he likes, the parts that he doesn't like of the emerging Harris economic agenda. Christina, before you go, one other thing about one other person who was not given a speaking slot at the convention. For this, I'm going to ask you to put on your other hat, not your national political analyst hat, but your FAQ NYC local political podcast hat.

Eric Adams, Mayor Adams, who was at the convention, wasn't given a speaking slot, but he gave an interview where he said what his mission is going to be between now and election day in helping Kamala Harris get reelected. He said it's getting Black men to vote for Harris. Did you see that?

Christina Greer: No, I did not. That is obviously a demographic that you need to make sure even the Black men, by and large, vote exponentially more for the Democratic Party than any other group of people. They are second only to Black women. We know that Kamala Harris has already come to New York. She and Eric Adams had the rally up-- I call it, "Up north," now that I'm in Brooklyn, [chuckles] but they already had their rally together.

No, he did not get top billing at the DNC. Eric Adams is, as I've written before several times, he's that uncle that expresses a lot of views that people share in the family, but they're not necessarily the views that people like to talk about. He represents a strong faction in the Democratic Party that isn't necessarily the faction that they wanted to highlight at the convention. I do think that there are ways that they will utilize the Mayor of New York City in the ways that he is talented as a politician, which we cannot deny that Eric Adams is a talented politician, to target the audiences that they need.

This is how you deploy people for various things. He's not quick to judge. You do not necessarily need him in certain conversations, but in others, I think that he could be a very useful ally, if and when called upon.

Brian Lehrer: Christina Greer, Fordham University political science professor, who is also co-host of the podcast FAQ NYC from the news organization THE CITY, and author of the book Black Ethnics. Thank you very, very much, as always.

Christina Greer: Thanks so much, Brian.

 

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