Title: DNC Recap: Day 2

Brian Lehrer: It's the Brian Lehrer show on WNYC. Good morning, everyone. An intermarriage of any kind can be a complicated thing for the couple, right, and for both families. There's an intermarriage in the national spotlight right now with Kamala Harris, of course, being the Democratic presidential nominee. She, of Jamaican and Indian immigrant parents, is married to white Jewish American male Doug Emhoff. When Emhoff spoke at the Democratic convention last night, it wasn't about any of that that other people may be thinking about or projecting onto him or to her. It was simply about Kamala Harris as a great stepmom to his kids, with very close relationships during their 10-year marriage, as in this 1-minute story from just the other day that he told from the convention stage.

Douglas Emhoff: A few days ago, during this incredible time we're going through, there was a brief window when Kamala was back at home. I saw her sitting on her favorite chair. In the middle of a wild month, I just hoped that she was having a quiet moment to herself. Then I realized she was on the phone. Of course, my mind went to all the potential crises that the vice president could be dealing with. Was it domestic? Was it foreign? Was it campaign? I could see she was focused. All I knew was that it must be something important.

It turns out it was. Ella had called her. That's Kamala. [applause] That's Kamala. Those kids are her priorities, and that scene was a perfect map of her heart. She's always been there for our children, and I know she'll always be there for yours, too.

[applause]

Brian Lehrer: Doug Emhoff, who may go from second gentleman to first gentleman next January, depending on how the election turns out, using the personal side of trusting Kamala Harris with his family as a way to say, "America, you can trust her to do right by yours." There we begin our Democratic convention conversation for today. We'll play more clips as we go. With us for this is Juan Manuel Benitez, now a journalism professor at Columbia, but long a journalist for NY1 and NY1 Noticias, their Spanish language channel and he sometimes guest-hosts for me on this show. Juan Manuel covered conventions in person from 2004 to 2020. Juan Manuel, always great to have you. Welcome back to WNYC.

Juan Manuel Benitez: Thank you so much for having me, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: That's a classic convention role, right? Especially for someone still, in a way, introducing themselves to the American people like Kamala Harris is doing under this year's unusual circumstances, a family member to vouch for the candidate as a family person and as a person overall. Right?

Juan Manuel Benitez: That's right. Also a response to the idea from J.D. Vance, the Republican vice presidential candidate, saying in the past that the country was run by childless cat ladies. What Emhoff was trying to do and what the Democratic Party is trying to do with the messaging is presenting Kamala Harris as a mother, as a family person, so the Republicans don't own just that issue of being family people caring about children. It goes also with that same messaging that they are trying, I think, very successfully right now, the Democratic campaign for president, of Freedom.

Freedom was a word that was associated for a long time with the Republican Party. They used it for many, many years in a very effective way. Now, the Democrats are trying to steal that word and that concept and they are trying to own it and trying to use that message to win this election.

Brian Lehrer: It's interesting about the childless cat lady thing. I don't think I heard Doug Emhoff refer to that directly. I don't know if anybody else did who was speaking in a different role with a little more leeway to bring it up directly to attack J.D. Vance. Portraying Kamala Harris as a family woman, a dedicated stepmom, it doesn't address the smear against people who are childless, including childless by choice, but it just says, "No, you got it so wrong about this individual. What were you even thinking?"

Juan Manuel Benitez: That's right. I think you always try to humanize a candidate. Right. The convention on the convention floor is always a good space to do that, to reintroduce the candidate that you're presenting as a party and humanizing, calling friends and family members to give a picture of that person that is going to be appealing to the general public. I believe that the Democrats, they were really successful doing so yesterday with Kamala Harris and with Tim Walz.

Brian Lehrer: Yes, and a lot of childless people do have caregiving responsibilities as uncles, aunts, surrogate adults of all kinds, obviously. That's not where they were going with that. They were really, if there was a subtext there, it was, "No, Kamala Harris is not a childless person of any kind." Listeners, once again this morning, your comments and questions, this time on night two of the Democratic convention. Welcome at 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692, call or text reactions to the speeches or other moments.

We'll talk with Juan Manuel, who has done all those years of Spanish language news on TV about the battle for Latino voters this year. We'll get to that. Latino listeners or anyone else with a question, comment or story about that aspect of the campaign or any aspect of the campaign, 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. We heard from second gentleman Doug Emhoff, husband of vice president Harris. There was another married couple featured last night, a couple named Barack and Michelle. You may have heard of them. Here is a clip of the former first lady whose role, in part, was to draw a sharp contrast between Donald Trump and Kamala Harris.

Michelle Obama: She understands that most of us will never be afforded the grace of failing forward. We will never benefit from the affirmative action of generational wealth. [applause] If we bankrupt a business, if we bankrupt a business or choke in a crisis, we don't get a second, third or fourth chance. If things don't go our way. We don't have the luxury of whining or cheating others to get further ahead. No. We don't get to change the rules so we always win. If we see a mountain in front of us, we don't expect there to be an escalator waiting to take us to the top.

Brian Lehrer: No escalator waiting to take us to the top. Michelle Obama last night. Juan Manuel, does their star power persist and does it matter politically?

Juan Manuel Benitez: I mean, of course, it's still there. I think the Obamas are huge stars in the country and within the Democratic Party. Obviously, they are gifted speakers. I don't know what you thought about last night, Brian, but even Michelle Obama, her speech might have been the most eloquent argument to reject Donald Trump in front of Democrats. Right. I think she framed this campaign in a very smart way as a rejection of Donald Trump with all those attributes that he has, with very sharp attacks on Donald Trump in her speech.

The Obamas did what they always do. They are really good speakers and they energize the party, they inspire the party, and they also electrify the crowd. That's what we saw last night on the convention floor. I think we can all agree that Michelle Obama did an even better job than her husband last night.

Brian Lehrer: Some of the comments are coming in about Michelle Obama on the phone that are just extraordinarily positive, like, you know, on a scale, and you see it in your television career, I'm sure you've seen it. On a scale of 0 to 100, how much praise or what the energy level is and what one of your viewers might say. People are off the charts this morning about Michelle.

In particular, one listener writes, "Michelle Obama peeled the paint off the walls and then burned down the house. Her controlled fury at what the Obamas suffered at the hands of Trump and Republicans fueled a perfectly delivered speech as sharp as a scalpel. One of the most remarkable pieces of political theater I've ever seen at a Democratic at a convention, and I've been watching them since 1972," writes this listener who adds, as a little addendum, "and Doug Emhoff was adorable." Someone else along those lines, before we play a second Michelle Obama clip, how about Carmen in Metuchen? You're on WNYC. Hi, Carmen. Thank you for calling in.

Carmen: Hi. Thank you so much, Brian, for having me on your show. I'm a big fan. Yes, I really just wanted to really echo the sentiments of the comment that I thought former first lady Michelle Obama did a knockout job with her presentation. I think really highlighting the experience of the racist attacks and the sexist attacks that her and President Obama face, but also that the current candidates will face. I think the other important message that she gave was not to rest, that there is time, a lot of time between now in the actual election and that we really have to do something.

We can't rest on our laurels. It is so important that we stay diligent and focused and be prepared for all the attacks. There is a fight and that there is a community of America that does not want to see us win. We really have to get everybody involved and engaged, whether it's Republicans who agree with us, Democrats, independents, people who haven't voted before, but to really get as many people involved and engaged is important. Like the other person said, yes, I do think she did-- Obama said it correctly, that, "Wow, she's a hard act to follow."

Brian Lehrer: Thank you, Carmen. Yes, and Barack had to follow her. Tanya in South Amboy, you're on WNYC. Hi, Tanya.

Tanya: Hi. I just wanted to let people know that I am very proud of my 83-year-old mother who was the oldest delegate from West Virginia.

Brian Lehrer: Wait, that was your mother? I saw her. I was watching the convention then, right. She stood up there. I'm just giving people some background. As they were doing the roll call and they got to West Virginia, she stood up and said, "I'm 83 years old. I'm the oldest delegate in the West Virginia convention," and then went on to talk about Kamala Harris and her own pride. Then an 18-year-old followed her and said, "I'm the youngest delegate from the West Virginia delegation." That was your mom?

Tanya: Oh, my mother is Miss Badass original. [laughter] She is also involved in the Poor People's Campaign. She became a delegate. She told me she was shocked that they even voted for her. She made it to the convention. She said to me yesterday, "Well, I might be on air, I'm not sure," but she did that. I was just so proud of her. My phone blew up afterwards. "Wait a minute. We know her. You know, this is this woman," and she is having a great time and she is very involved, and vote Harris.

Brian Lehrer: She was certainly on MSNBC. I don't know who else carried the roll call vote, but, Tanya, what's it like, if you can speak for your mother, or maybe you came from there, too, being a Democrat in a state like West Virginia, unless you're a Joe Manchin Democrat.

Tanya: Yes, mom is from there. Mom is constantly fighting, fussing. She moved back. I grew up in Rhode Island and I've been in New York and New Jersey for the past 30, 40 years. There are apparently pockets of people who are Democrats, but people just, it seems like people just don't really speak up too much. There are groups-- She will call me, "Hey, you know, I talk with these people, talk with those people," but people seem to just not want to rock the boat. She said there's just a lot of apathy there. She used to call me constantly ranting about Manchin, about justice and saying, these people, why don't people understand what is happening to them?

She's in a very small town, but she has always been a very headstrong person and getting her opinion out there. She's, as they say, doing the damn thing. She's there with the Democrats, so, Jean Evansmore.

Brian Lehrer: Awesome call, Tanya, thank you. Thank you for shouting out your mom. Call us again. Juan Manuel, I don't know if you were watching, as I say, I did see that moment during the roll call. Did you happen to see Tanya's mom?

Juan Manuel Benitez: I did. It was a very fun roll call. I mean, at the end of the day, I think, Brian, that the Democrats last night put on a really good television show. This is all about TV and primetime TV. They want to have Americans watching glued to the television screens so they can convey that message and they can keep stressing that message of Kamala Harris as this hopeful, inspiring candidate and trying to counter the picture that the Trump campaign is painting of the Democrats and many of the issues they are talking about, that they are issues that Americans are worried about, like inflation, like prices of the supermarket and immigration.

They are valid issues. Then the Democrats, what they are doing with their convention is that they are trying to reframe the conversation and reintroduce the vice president as a candidate who can bring on change and can put together the same coalition that Barack Obama put together in 2008.

Brian Lehrer: I don't remember seeing such a fun telecast of a roll call where they went state by state. I think they go alphabetically. Right. West Virginia was near the end, and they were playing, in so many cases, music clips from an artist from that state or a song that refers to that state. It struck me that there was a lot of joy coming from the delegates representing their states. Of course, you always hear pride of place coming from delegates at any political convention, "The great state of fill-in-the-blank." There was a lot of joy last night, and that's part of what they were trying to convey.

I wonder if there could have been the same joy if Joe Biden was the nominee. Nothing against Joe Biden, but there is, of course, this surge of energy since Harris took over. Maybe they would have staged it the exact same way, or maybe they just wouldn't have been able to get up for it in the same way. Do you have any idea?

Juan Manuel Benitez: Let me tell you that the roll call, for me as a reporter, I covered eight national conventions, it was the most boring time of every convention because you go state by state, and they want to try to make a point about their state and how great they are. Last night, what we saw was basically like a music show. Every state had a song that they played with, and it was a very good television moment. If you want to keep Americans watching the convention, that is a show that you want to put on.

Brian Lehrer: You referred earlier to the Democrats last night as they've been doing for a while now, trying to reclaim the word 'freedom'. We did a whole segment on that on the show last night, how that word over time has become more associated with the Republican party, or they've at least used it more in their rhetoric, while Democrats have used words like 'justice' and 'equality' more than 'freedom', perhaps relative to the Republicans. Now they're using the Beyoncé song Freedom as a theme for Kamala Harris.

Harris is talking explicitly about freedom and various types of freedom as a centerpiece of what she's running to preserve and expand. You referred to that before, and Nora on Staten Island is calling about that idea. Nora, you're on WNYC. Hello.

Nora: Yes, hi, Brian. Your guest caught me blindsided when he said that the Democrats stole the word 'freedom'. My understanding is that you can't steal something that's in the dictionary. The word free is part of the word freedom. If it's free, everybody's free to use it. I'd like an explanation.

Juan Manuel Benitez: I mean, I was trying to make a joke with the verb 'steal'. I should have used 'reclaim' that word, right? We are used to Republicans over the years using freedom as a concept in their messaging to get voters to make a bet on them. I think that it was really smart from the get go when we saw the beginning of the Kamala Harris campaign for president that they used that word as a principle, as a keyword for her campaign. Also, like Brian, like you said, using Beyoncé's song. I'm sure that I was not the first person to notice that, "Oh, wow. The Democrats are trying to reclaim that word," that has been used so effectively by Republicans throughout so many election cycles.

Brian Lehrer: Usually to protest big government.

Juan Manuel Benitez: Exactly.

Brian Lehrer: Here's more Michelle Obama saying out loud how she perceives the way Trump campaigns against someone with Kamala Harris's background.

Michelle Obama: Now, unfortunately, we know what comes next. We know folks are going to do everything they can to distort her truth. My husband and I, sadly know a little something about this. For years, Donald Trump did everything in his power to try to make people fear us. See, his limited, narrow view of the world made him feel threatened by the existence of two hardworking, highly educated, successful people who happen to be Black. I want to know. Who's going to tell him? Who's going to tell him that the job he's currently seeking might just be one of those Black jobs.

Brian Lehrer: Remind us what the Black jobs reference is, Juan Manuel. It's about something Donald Trump said in the debate, right?

Juan Manuel Benitez: That's right. Donald Trump was saying, or said during the debate, that immigrants or undocumented immigrants coming through the southern border, they are taking Black jobs. That was a very controversial comment that he made. I knew, Brian, that you were going to ask me about this after I saw Michelle Obama last night talking about, or at least counter-attacking or countering what Trump has been saying about the Obamas for so many years, about the Black jobs comment. Again, Michelle Obama, I think she did such a great job, like putting everything in very simple words in a really good speech, that there's no more analysis to be done here.

She was so clear, and everybody knew what she was trying to say and what she was referring to. Obviously, the Black jobs comment that is pretty recent, had a really huge impact among many African American voters. She did a really good job last night responding to that offensive, to that comment that many African American voters found offensive.

Brian Lehrer: Right. To her reference in the first clip, to Donald Trump being a recipient of affirmative action, I think Inga in Manhattan is calling in about that. Inga, you're on WNYC. Hello.

Inga: Yes, hello. Good morning. Yes, I realized that comment when I heard it last night on TV and then when you repeated it now. I think she said something like the affirmative action of generational wealth.

Brian Lehrer: That was the exact quote, that's right.

Inga: I imagine, and I would like--

Brian Lehrer: That's right. The affirmative action of generational wealth as it applied to Donald Trump.

Inga: Do you think what she means is because some people criticize affirmative action and she's saying, this is another way you get an advantage. It's not only people who, through affirmative action, maybe get to a good university. Some people do it because they have money. It's a kind of affirmative action. Do you think that's what she meant, the generational wealth?

Brian Lehrer: Definitely. Thank you, Inga. Juan Manuel, anything on that? Of course. We have this conversation as it pertains to college admissions and all kinds of things. There are so many structural preferences that give a leg up to so many different people from so many different categories. The only one that seems to draw the right wing backlash is when it's done to try to make up for 400 years of structural racism.

Juan Manuel Benitez: That's true. Affirmative action, yes, every time we talk about that concept, we think about minorities. At the end of the day, we know that if you are wealthy or you come from a family of means, you have it easier in life and you have it easier when you try to apply to college, to universities, and to get the best education that you can get. She was trying to reframe that concept, even more so in the context of Republicans also trying to paint Kamala Harris as a DEI candidate, as a diversity, equity and inclusion candidate, that I think that DEI concept has become the new attack that the Republicans are using to replace the affirmative action concept that they've been trying to use against Democrats for a long time.

Brian Lehrer: Another listener wrote in, even before we took Inga's call, "The affirmative action of multigenerational wealth is the most eloquent, concise ninja phrase imaginable, sheer genius." That kind of relates to this next text I'm going to read, which says, "I'm dying to know who is the architect behind this convention. To put together something so cohesive and entertaining in such short time deserves a position in the administration." Do we happen to have a name? I don't know it. Who is the architect of this convention?

Juan Manuel Benitez: I have no clue, but it's not only the convention, Brian. I think you would agree that we've all been shocked at how quickly the Democrats went from having Joe Biden as a presidential candidate to getting Kamala Harris campaign so forcefully and so masterfully, because I think they've been doing a really good job since the beginning of the campaign, and they haven't made a lot of mistakes or no mistakes so far. You can see that results in the polling. The polling numbers keep giving Kamala Harris growing numbers in key states that the Democrats need to win this election.

It's her campaign or the Democrats machine that went from having Joe Biden as a candidate, and it was a campaign that wasn't really inspiring a lot of Democrats and wasn't really getting voters energized. Then they went right away to a Kamala Harris campaign with commercials, with messaging that I think everybody would agree have been really effective in the last couple of weeks. In the last few weeks.

Brian Lehrer: Of course, one of the big questions going forward will be, will the honeymoon last? Will the momentum continue? Can anything like this momentum? We did a segment the other day on the really big swings in the polls in the swing states, like 10 point swings, 8 point swings since Harris entered the race, which is very unusual for mid summer. Can it continue or is that ultimately going to end and then it's going to get more tense? That's just projection speculation. There's no reason to dwell on it or speculate one way or the other. That, obviously, is a big question right now going forward.

You mentioned the swing states. When we come back from break, we'll get to that competition for Latino voters in particular in swing states that I know you've been covering. We've got two calls on that, at least one of them a call of pushback on the joy and attractiveness that this campaign is trying to project. Gabriel in Bergen County, we see you. Leela in Miami, we see you, and we continue with Juan Manuel Benitez, now journalism professor at Columbia, formerly with NY! and their Spanish language channel, NY1 Noticias. Stay with us.

[music]

Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. As we talk mostly about night two of the Democratic convention, we heard two clips of Michelle Obama. Here's that person you may know as her husband. He'll also get into Trump otherizing people a little bit, but he does more than that, too.

Barrack Obama: He killed a bipartisan immigration deal written in part by one of the most conservative Republicans in Congress that would have helped secure our southern border because he thought trying to actually solve the problem would hurt his campaign. He doesn't-- [booing] Do not boo. Vote. He doesn't seem to care if more women lose their reproductive freedom since it won't affect his life. Most of all, Donald Trump wants us to think that this country is hopelessly divided between us and them, between the real Americans who, of course, support him, and the outsiders who don't.

Brian Lehrer: No red America, no blue America. Later in the show, we're going to play the original Barack Obama rising to prominence through that convention speech in 2004. Juan Manuel, a little softer this time, perhaps, in a little more cynical time than 2004, which was a polarized time in America in and of itself. That's why Obama brought it up in the first place, but we're so polarized now. I feel like he didn't hit that theme too hard because people might have thought, "What?" I was taken by the line we heard there, "Don't boo, vote." Then so many delegates had these signs that they held up that simply had the word 'Vote" on them. I wonder if that's a mantra this week, "Don't boo, vote."

Juan Manuel Benitez: Well, Yes, we know that Barack Obama has used that phrase in the past. When people are complaining, he is telling them, listen, do something and do something. That's what Michelle Obama used. That was her line that the audience was responding to. It's very similar. Just stop criticizing what's happening. Stop complaining about what's happening and do something about it. I think Obama was trying to go back, yes, to that 2004 speech that brought him to-- he became a huge star of the Democratic Party that night in Boston in 2004.

I remember that night. I was there in the convention center. I spoke to him. I remember right before the speech when nobody knew who he was. I was a local news reporter and I approached him in the convention, in the convention building, because nobody was talking to him, he was an easy person to talk to. After that night, there was no way you could get close to him.

Brian Lehrer: He was only a member of the Illinois state legislature back then. Who knew Barack Obama?

Juan Manuel Benitez: That's right. Then the other point that he made with that comment that you just played with that line is that immigration reform. We know that there was a bipartisan deal that the Republicans and Democrats had worked on last year, and Donald Trump told them, listen, don't do it. I don't want to give Joe Biden that victory because then you're going to take away one of the arguments that I have to attack the Biden administration and to attack Joe Biden's candidacy for the reelection.

Brian Lehrer: Not as enthused as some of our previous callers, Bezarine in Brooklyn. Bezarine, thank you very much for calling in. You're on WNYC.

Bezarine: Yes, good morning and thank you for taking my call. I'll be very brief and very exacting. Now, my son has been in federal pretrial detention for six years and five months. We're in the Eastern District of New York. Michelle Obama says do something. Well, I have been doing something and I have been putting out my fliers for HR 3019. Now, HR 3019 has to do with the Federal Prison Oversight Act of 2023-2024. Guess what? That bill has been signed into law by President Biden. I applaud him. He signed that bill for Federal Prison Oversight Act.

That bill is HR 3019. You can look it up. It was signed into law 7-25-2024. Now, the next thing on the agenda is for Mr. Biden to abolish the federal debt penalty. Those bills are HR 1124 and S 2299. I want those bills to be sent and brought to the floor by Chuck Schumer.

Brian Lehrer: Bezarine, thank you very much for elevating that. That's definitely worthy of a follow up. Bezarine had also told our screener that they wanted to bring up that the convention doesn't seem to be taking into account the people who were protesting outside and those protests by and large against the Biden-Harris policy toward the war in Gaza, obviously. Juan Manuel, I had heard that there were protest camp delegates. Some of the people who got elected, as you know, convention delegates are in that camp and that they were going to do a protest inside the convention floor. I haven't run into it on TV. Do you know if it's happening?

Juan Manuel Benitez: I don't think it's happened yet. I wouldn't be surprised if that took place in the next, either today or tomorrow, the last day of the Democratic National Convention. We know that the protesters have been extremely passionate about this issue, not only in Chicago, but in so many other cities around the country and around the world. What we know is that it's been reported that the Kamala Harris campaign and Kamala Harris herself, she's been trying to meet with all those Democrats who have concerns about the policy that the Biden administration has currently when it comes to Israel and the war in Gaza.

Brian Lehrer: Leela in Miami, you're on WNYC with Juan Manuel Benitez. Hello, Leela.

Leela: Hi, Brian. How are you? Listen, I woke up this morning and I felt like the first time I seen Pink Floyd. I felt like I went to a concert yesterday and I live by myself. I am one of those cat ladies that doesn't have a husband, doesn't have offspring, but I was having a party. I was dancing, I was standing, I cried. I mean, it was just amazing. I love the Democratic Party and the Obamas always deliver. Oh, my God. Just to see that. I wish the whole world could see those shots. I was watching it on PBS and all those different creeds, all those different people, all those genetic makeup. This is what America is, and the hope is back. The hope is back. Thank God for Kamala.

Brian Lehrer: Leela. I'm going to leave it there for time. Thank you very much, Leela. Obviously feeling it like the first time she saw Pink Floyd. Gabriel in Bergen county, not so much, right? Gabriel, Hi, you're on WNYC.

Gabriel: Brian. Hey, how's it going? I listen to you every single day. I love your show so much. Thank you for doing what you're doing. Yes. I am 30 years old. I'm a Mexican American, and I'll be voting for Donald Trump this coming year. The Democratic, the DNC was great, fun TV. Nothing more than that, to me, doesn't change my vote. I'll still be voting for Donald Trump.

Brian Lehrer: Tell us why.

Gabriel: I'm just really upset with the Democratic Party over the last few years. I feel like I'm watching a wolf in sheep's clothing nonstop. I know that's, like, very classic to say, but I really feel like I don't know who's in control. At least with Donald Trump, he's so crazy and loud. I know where he is at all times. I know what's happening. It's very clear to me. When I see these Democrats and what's going on, it's just. It's so sketchy, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: Is there any particular policy of Trump's that you particularly identify with? You identified yourself as a Mexican American at the beginning of your call. Is it about the border? Is it about something else?

Gabriel: Yes, I think it's just about the economy, really. I just see so many of my peers-- I'm a musician. So many of my peers are so anti-America. I just got back from two weeks in Europe, and all I keep thinking is America is the greatest place on earth. I love it here. My dad said, everybody speaks English. We're in America now. I have five brothers. We're all the same way. I just think that if we're in this country, we should act as if we're loving this country.

Brian Lehrer: Gabriel, thank you very much. Well, Juan Manuel, this is in your wheelhouse as a Spanish language as well as English language journalist for many years. Talk about the battle for the Gabriels of the world, the Latino vote generally.

Juan Manuel Benitez: Let me start by saying two things. Number one, when people say that the Latino vote is totally necessary to win the White House, I think that's a huge generalization. The Latino vote is going to be important like so many other constituencies in many key states. We cannot say that the Latinos in this country are voting just one way or the other. The second myth that we have in the country is that immigration is an issue that all Latinos care about. Whoever wants to do something about immigration reform, then it's going to take away, it's going to take the Latino voting bloc.

Yes, but no. What we are seeing right now is that immigration is a really important issue for many Latinos, for many Latino voters, but many of them who are obviously because they're going to vote and they are citizens of this country, they feel that the Democrats have been a little too weak when it comes to the latest wave of undocumented immigrants. We hear it here in New York City. Many Latino immigrants themselves, they are citizens now, and they complain about how some of the newly arrived migrants are getting an easy pass or they are getting too much help that they didn't get when they first came years ago, that they are not playing by the same rules.

That bitterness, I think, is growing among a specific section or a significant section of the Latino electorate. The other thing that I would say is that the Latino voters, they are middle class and they are working class, and they share the same concerns as any other working class American or middle class American. They are concerned about the inflation, the prices in the supermarket when they go to buy food. They're concerned about immigration, the economy, jobs, all those, the same issues that any working class, middle class American is worried about. And the Democrats, beyond the DNC, beyond the TV show, they're going to have to do a better job at policymaking and offering solutions to those problems that are real concerns for a lot of people in this country.

Brian Lehrer: In fact, as a last thing, and then we're going to be out of time, we have Democratic candidate from Long Island, John Avlon, standing by. From what I've read, and tell me, if your observation and experience in reporting bears this out, Latino Americans are even more likely to prioritize economic policy than other groups of Americans in deciding on who to vote. I wonder if you think that that's even more the key to all kinds of Latino voters in all kinds of states, for Kamala Harris to make a case that her economic policies, which we're covering a lot on this show, are better for them than Donald Trump, more than, let's say he hates people who come from your background.

Juan Manuel Benitez: Let's remember, if you're an immigrant or you come from an immigrant family, you came to this country or your family came to this country to make a better life and to work and to find a job and to have economic prosperity. I think that's a concern shared by all immigrant groups and every American who comes from an immigrant family. The Latinos share that with any other American who comes from an immigrant family.

Brian Lehrer: Juan Manuel Benitez, longtime journalist for NY1 and their Spanish language channel, NY1 Noticias. He sometimes guest-hosts for me on this show when I'm off, and now imparting his wisdom to the next generation of people who are going to try somehow to make a living in journalism as a journalism professor at Columbia. Juan Manuel, always great to have you.

Juan Manuel Benitez: Always a pleasure.

Brian Lehrer: We have now for a few minutes one of the Democratic candidates running in a suburban New York swing district. It's John Avlon trying to win the first congressional district seat in Suffolk county currently held by Republican Nick LaLota. He joins us from Chicago. If you know the name, but can't quite place from where. John Avlon was a political analyst at CNN, editor-in-chief and managing editor of the Daily Beast for a number of years. He was previously a columnist and associate editor for the New York Sun. Once upon a time, he was a chief speech writer for Mayor Rudy Giuliani when Giuliani was mayor.

Maybe, you know some of the books that John Avlon has written that kind of says where he's been coming from for much of his adult life politically. He wrote Independent Nation: how centrists can change American politics. That goes back to 2004 and Wingnuts: How the Lunatic Fringe Is Hijacking America from 2010. He's also written history books about George Washington and Abraham Lincoln more recently. John Avlon, always good to have you on the show. Welcome back to WNYC.

John Avlon: Thank you, Brian. Pleasure to be with you, as always.

Brian Lehrer: New York state is not a swing state for president, but New York One in Suffolk county is a swing district for Congress. Very important to helping to decide control of Congress. Why do you think your district elected Republican Nick LaLota in 2022?

John Avlon: Because Lee Zeldin was running for governor, and Zeldin held the seat for eight years, but before that was held for 12 years by Tim Bishop. This is a classic swing seat. [crosstalk]

Brian Lehrer: Bishop was a Democrat. Yes.

John Avlon: Correct, yes, sir. Yes. Before, you know, they're more registered independents in the first district of New York than any other district in New York state. The fact is that Nick LaLota, our one-term incumbent, is far too far right for the district. He's sort of a professional machine Paul, and a trumper who's now pretending all of a sudden, after I won the primary, to be a common sense Republican, and it doesn't fit. He's always fighting for special interests, not Suffolk county families. That's one of the reasons we're going to win. Long island is a battleground. New York has six battleground districts, so we got work to do. The control of Congress is going to come right through Long island.

Brian Lehrer: Do you still label yourself in the way that you did in those old books? I realize they're pretty old at this point.

John Avlon: Yes.

Brian Lehrer: Talk about that.

John Avlon: Yes, for sure. Well, look, I am definitely on the center left. I first became inspired in politics by Bill Clinton and that third way approach to politics, opportunity, responsibility, community, always made a lot of sense to me. As you mentioned, I did work for Rudy Giuliani when he was sane as a pro-choice, pro-gay rights mayor, but most importantly for me, was his chief speechwriter during 9-11 and wrote the eulogies for the firefighters and police officers. For me, the main topic I've hit on as a journalist, and we've talked about this in the past, is the dangers of polarization and hyper partisanship to our democracy.

Finally, things got so bad, I felt I had to leave a career in a place I loved to get in the arena because my grandparents were immigrants. That always shapes-- for me, it hammered home that we don't take the blessings of American democracy for granted. I wanted to not talk about it on TV, but do something about it directly. I'm really proud of the campaign. We won the primary 70-30, and we got the Republicans running scared, which is just how I like it.

Brian Lehrer: You were in the hall last night. Do you have any reflection on the general vibe or any moments at the Democratic convention so far?

John Avlon: Yes. Brian, I got to tell you, I mean, for those of you who didn't watch it, go back, watch Michelle Obama, watch Barack Obama. They gave him masterclass on giving a speech. Michelle Obama, just such a force, so focused. All these slide asides and great soundbites and Barack Obama really kind of loose, but in command. There are so many lines, but it really does crystallize, I think, the differences we've seen in the Republican and Democratic convention, not just, you know, energy versus tired, old versus new, hope versus fear, but Democrats are consistently emphasizing not just the stakes of the race, but that there is more than unites us than divides us as Americans, which I deeply believe. Right.

There's a meme going around that shows a contrast between a sea of signs saying "USA" at the Democratic convention compared to a sea of signs saying "Mass deportations now" at the Republican convention. I think that crystallizes it pretty clearly.

Brian Lehrer: What's one or two of those things from your perspective that you would say out loud unites us more than divides us, that maybe people don't talk about enough?

John Avlon: You know, this is one of the hidden secrets of American politics. For example, you know, over 70% of Americans are broadly pro-choice. As I sometimes frame it, the decision to have an abortion should be between a woman, her doctor, and her God, not the government. That's certainly true in New York's first district. Majority of Republicans are pro-choice. My opponent, Nick LaLota, cheered the overturning of Roe v. Wade and said states should go further. Now we see that dystopian downstream effect. That's an area where I think Kamala Harris flipping the script on freedom really resonates an issue of reproductive freedom.

I think most Americans understand we need immigration reform. You see Democrats really touting the fact that we work together with Republicans to get the toughest bipartisan border security bill anyone would see. Donald Trump pulled the plug because he didn't want bipartisanship to win. People like Nick LaLota took the knee because they do whatever Donald Trump says. I think that's another big difference. The Democratic Party right now is the only party that believes in bipartisanship and building a big tent.

The affordability crisis is real. My core belief in this campaign and throughout my career is we need to rebuild the middle. Rebuild the middle of our politics, but also the middle of our economy. Yesterday, Senator Schumer, New York's own, made some news by committing to repeal, restoring the full state and local tax deduction. It's a huge deal across New York because we give more to the federal government than we get back. This is an average of $10,000 back in people's pockets across Suffolk county every year.

There's so many areas we are more united than we're divided. We just need to lead to recenter our national conversation and to start getting people excited about solutions again and working together again and not fixating on problems because of polarization.

Brian Lehrer: Last thing, and I don't know if you're in a position at all to be your own political analyst, but one of the biggest reasons that Joe Biden decided to withdraw from the race was because of all the evidence, not just that he might lose, but that it was really hurting down ballot Democrats and swing congressional districts. Do you think Kamala Harris being elevated to the top of the ticket is affecting the math in your race?

John Avlon: Absolutely. It just changes the turnout model. That's true in New York's first district, but across the nation, I think especially in New York, you just see much more engagement and excitement among young folks who I think Republicans cynically say, well, they're not going to vote, so don't pay any attention. Folks are fired up. I think we're going to see communities of color, women. Women are going to decide who wins this election. That was always going to be the case, but now they're fired up. You know, in a post-Dobbs environment where the focus is on reproductive freedom.

This is a, and just the iconography and excitement around Kamala Harris. I think the AAPI community is going to be one of the big stories of this election. I think you're just seeing a total change in the turnout model and the excitement levels. Trump's team, that water level is going to be lower than it was in 2020. I always believed that was going to be the case. The thing about a swing district is we've got to play the politics of addition, not division. I think that fits not only the politics of the district, but the way we need to govern.

We're seeing just an enormous amount of excitement and enthusiasm and people feeling empowered to get involved with our democracy because they understand this election, we've got to vote like our future depends on it. We've got to vote like democracy depends on it. We've got to vote like freedom depends on it because it does.

Brian Lehrer: John Avlon, who used to come on the show as a fellow journalist, CNN Daily Beast, an author of books about politics. Now he has entered the fray, and he was on just now as the Democratic nominee in New York's first congressional district in Suffolk county, running against incumbent Republican Nick LaLota. Thank you, John.

John Avlon: Thank you, Brian. Anytime.

 

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