[music]

Brian Lehrer: It's the Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning, everyone. Later this hour, Congressman Jamaal Bowman defending his seat in the hotly contested Democratic primary in Southern Westchester in the Northern Bronx. We had his challenger, Westchester County Executive George Latimer, last week, as many of you know, today, it's Congressman Bowman's turn. That's coming up, but we start with New York City Comptroller Brad Lander here largely in support of the congestion pricing plan.

Yes. We're still obsessing on congestion pricing for driving into Manhattan below 60, a street that Governor Hochul, as you know, has put on an indefinite pause just ahead of its June 30th scheduled start date. Why Brad Lander? Why still congestion pricing? Because the comptroller at last word was considering legal action to get congestion pricing back on track.

We'll talk about other things, too, including the report in Politico this morning that Lander is close to deciding whether to primary Mayor Adams next year. We'll read some of your responses to the question in our Brian Lehrer Show newsletter last week asking, "If you drive into Manhattan, why do you?" Comptroller Lander, always good to have you. Welcome back to WNYC.

Comptroller Brad Lander: Great to be with you this morning, Brian. Thank you.

Brian Lehrer: Are you going to court for congestion pricing?

Comptroller Brad Lander: Very likely, yes. Look, Governor Hochul took a disastrously wrong turn when she halted the implementation of congestion pricing. It leaves a $15 billion hole in the MTA's capital program. We can't modernize our decades-old signal technology. We can't install the elevators we've been waiting decades to make the system accessible. That's a legal obligation on the Americans with Disabilities Act.

Congestion pricing is the law of New York state. Governor Hochul does not have the unilateral authority to cancel it. We actually saw that on Friday when the federal government sent their final approval. We've assembled this broad coalition of legal experts and plaintiffs who have been harmed by this decision, and we are preparing to help take their cases to court.

Brian Lehrer: As often happens, when we just say the words "congestion pricing," our lines are exploding. I want to make sure that everybody has the phone number; pro, con, mixed, just questions. Other topics for Brad Lander, they are welcome, too, 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692, call or text, as some of you already are. You said plaintiffs who are being harmed by the delay in congestion pricing. Who are some of those plaintiffs and how are they being harmed?

Comptroller Brad Lander: It's a real mix. Number one for me are New Yorkers with disabilities. It's been a four-decade struggle to get a real commitment from the MTA to make almost all, 95% of the 472 subway stations accessible. It's still planned to take another 30 years. If we delay congestion pricing, it won't happen. Those are folks 20% estimated of our neighbors who really can't use the subway system, and they're relying on those resources, but it's residents of the central business district who are impacted by the emissions, businesses in the central business district that are impacted by congestion.

One of my favorites here, I think a potential claim comes from some MTA board members. They voted on a capital plan counting on congestion pricing revenues, and they have a reasonable expectation that the state will comply with their responsibilities under the law.

Brian Lehrer: Why haven't you filed yet? I guess you're not looking for an immediate injunction against the governor, so the toll can go into effect on June 30th as planned?

Comptroller Brad Lander: The actions that need to take place that haven't yet happened are still coming. The state transportation commissioner needs to sign the final tolling agreement. That was always going to happen in the coming days. The MTA board is anticipated to vote on June 26th, so it'll be helpful to have more clear information about what is and is not happening in the coming days. There's an argument that simply, by her statement, the governor has violated the 2019 law, but there'll be a clearer and better case as we see what happens over the next few days.

Brian Lehrer: Which means this is not happening on June 30th. Right?

Comptroller Brad Lander: Unfortunately, the governor's action definitely is going to be an indefinite pause. It's not going to happen on June 30th. I mean, hope springs eternal. I still hope she'll change her mind. There's still time now. We've already spent a half billion dollars on the infrastructure. The cameras are up. It's ready to go, but I suspect it will be delayed, at least some. Hopefully, our lawsuits and public pressure and clarity that we need those resources and the heat we're going to have this week with bad air quality days and the clarity we need, the emissions reductions, will turn things around very soon.

Brian Lehrer: I mentioned in the intro that we launched a Brian Lehrer Show newsletter last week. Listeners, if you want to sign up for it, it'll come to your inbox every Thursday. Go to wnyc.org/blnewsletter. wnyc.org/blnewsletter. It's always going to include, besides some comments from me and other things about the show, a reader question.

Our question this week in edition number one, because this is what so many people are talking about right now. It said 90% of commuters to Manhattan for work already take mass transit. That's if they're coming in for their jobs. If you drive in ever for any reason, why do you? Comptroller, I want to read to you, as I read to our listeners, some of the responses that we got, all of which, I would say, lean critical of the idea of congestion pricing.

Comptroller Brad Lander: Sure.

Brian Lehrer: Jacqueline in Rockland County says she drives in sometimes. She writes to see artistic performances. "Suburban individuals with little public transportation should not have to subsidize New York City subway users."

Timon in Manhattan. I think he lives in Manhattan, but outside the zone. "Convenience plus I'm partly disabled. Congestion pricing is a good idea, but they should have started it with a much lower price like $350, then it could have been ratcheted up over time."

Judy in Brooklyn writes she often drives in. She writes, "I am over 80 and cannot use the subways. Driving is less expensive than taking cabs."

Fiona in Brooklyn drives in often. She writes and writes, "I work freelance in the film business and only drive in when I have to bring my equipment."

Jean in Stanford says drives in sometimes and writes, "I have to go to a doctor for examination each six months near New York Presbyterian Hospital. Before COVID, I took the train, but it was kind of difficult to get up to the doctor's office from Grand Central."

One more, we got so many, but these are just the ones that I'm going to read. Martin in Manhattan drives in sometimes and writes, "I live here and visit grandchildren regularly out of New York City. I find it absurd I have to pay to come home from a visit to my family."

There's a sampling of people who wrote that they drive into Manhattan sometimes, often, however much, and a sampling of the reasons. You had mentioned it's good for the disability community to have congestion pricing so we can build more elevators. That first response, or one of them said, "Convenience plus I'm partly disabled," so in that person's case, to take the car. What do you say to that group of responders as a block?

Comptroller Brad Lander: Well, first, I'll say, I really hear you. Those are important voices. Thanks for sending them the newsletter. I get that it's hard to envision a city with fully accessible mass transit, with better transit that people feel comfortable and safe and accessible taking. There's no substitute for getting New York City there, and we can't do that without the resources to invest.

I really think when we have a 95% accessible system, so many people will be able to use it, and this is the resource we have to do that. Now, most of the people on that list that I heard say, "I come in frequently," are more business-related users, like that freelancer.

For those folks, the reduction in congestion and in traffic I think will actually be a great boon for their businesses. People will be able to make more deliveries and get more business if the traffic isn't moving at 6 or 8 miles an hour. My hope is that folks that are coming in for work and who may do it on a more frequent basis will see the benefits of reduced congestion, and that the folks who are coming in once or twice, or three times a year will benefit over time as those trips become more possible via mass transit, and as the city, as the economic health that comes from better mass transit as well.

Look, no one wants to pay for the things we all need, but we're not able to fund our mass transit system just on the fares alone. Those resources have to come from somewhere, and funding them while reducing traffic and emissions is the way cities around the world have done it.

There's always those feelings like you just read right before it goes into effect but in the places around the world, they've implemented it, where it works, congestion comes down, transit gets better, and people's anger diminishes over time as they see the real results.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners will just say, as an aside, that that's our first example of bringing some of your responses to the question in our newsletter onto the show. We'll continue to do that on a regular basis. Again, if you want to sign up for the newsletter, which is going to go out to peoples' inboxes every Thursday, you can do so. It's free obviously. wnyc.org/blnewsletter. wnyc.org/blnewsletter.

A listener writes just now, Comptroller, in a text message. "Why has the MTA put such weight on congestion pricing for its budget? What were other funding options for accessibility upgrades to the subway?"

Comptroller Brad Lander: It's a great question. Unfortunately, what the MTA has done in the past is borrowed a lot of money without clear revenues to fund it and then gotten in real trouble. That's why the MTA was facing a fiscal crisis. It could be again. Unfortunately, no one has put on the table a really good, solid, fair revenue source. Otherwise, the one that the governor proposed a payroll tax really hits the economy and hits workers and I don't believe is a good idea at this moment.

I'm open. Maybe you can use the newsletter next week and if people have creative ideas, of course, we'll consider them. I will say none of the-- in addition to this $15 billion hole, none of the ideas for funding would reduce congestion, reduce traffic, reduce emissions. We're about to have a heat wave this week with poor air quality, and this, in addition, is one of the steps we can take to reduce emissions and to reduce traffic congestion, which will reduce crashes and make our streets safer.

I'd like to see us use some of the street space, it'll free up in Manhattan, to try new things like micromobility lanes to get the mopeds and the e-bikes in dedicated lanes and enforce that they have to be there rather than on the sidewalks. There's real opportunities here. That said, we're all ears if people have other ideas. We just have not seen a real plan B.

Brian Lehrer: I think a lot of people listening right now because we get so many calls also on the dangers of the mopeds and the e-bikes going every which way on the sidewalks and the streets, wrong way on one-way streets in ways that cars would never do or hardly ever do. How would those micromobility lanes work? I can just hear the voices of drivers in my head saying, "Wait. We already have fewer driving lanes on many city streets because of the bike lanes." Are we now going to have a sidewalk, a bike lane, a micromobility lane, and then something for cars?

Comptroller Brad Lander: Well, look, we've got so many more e-bikes and mopeds than we did a couple of years ago, and we just have not evolved our rules, our enforcement, or our infrastructure to catch up, and that's why they're running like haywire. This really is a management challenge.

Unfortunately, the city has not stepped up. The mayor and city DOT haven't stepped up to say, "Let's have a real and comprehensive plan." Congestion pricing, where it has been implemented results in, and we project here, about a 20% drop in traffic in lower Manhattan and that is streetscape that you can use for things to pilot micromobility lanes.

That's got to go along with enforcement because people have to then stay in those lanes, that means making sure people have the licenses if they're a moped or an e-bike that is effectively a moped, that means making sure the businesses that are employing them are held accountable, and that means some real enforcement as well but infrastructure is part of the solution. Congestion pricing creates one opportunity to try something to get control of what has indeed become chaos that pedestrians and drivers and cyclists all feel.

Brian Lehrer: Marsha(ph) in Brooklyn. You're on WNYC with Comptroller Brad Lander. Hi, Marsha.

Marsha: Hi. Hold on. I'm sorry. I had to [audio cut] be here. Okay. Hi. Brad, I think I'm going to be the one to sue you back.

Brian Lehrer: Uh-oh. [chuckles]

Marsha: I feel this is the worst implementation of congestion pricing, unthoughtful policies of integrating good urban planning that could have made it a success. We have developers on the Far East and West Side. Where were the agreements made, maybe some rebates for them, for low-cost municipal parking? We have issues with yellow cab drivers who have been on your program, Brian, actually. Why didn't we think of utilizing electric yellow cab creating plans where they would go to those Far East and West Side sites, which would then transport us, people like me, who has to go visit my oncologist in the middle of the city, who cannot afford the extra $15 round trip.

I have so many people in my own community who are working poor, who can't afford it, who must go in and out of the city without any thought of integrating urban planning into this particular plan. I am a former cyclist before my cancer. I walk at least four miles a day, and I do take the subways now, particularly that we finally have an elevator at my current subway stop.

Comptroller Brad Lander: Is that 7th Avenue --

Marsha: My last thing for you, Brad, one last question. Where's the audit of all of the other MTA surcharges that exists that I have not seen transparently published anywhere on your website? Maybe I've missed it, and if I have, please, tell us where to find that.

Brian Lehrer: You mean per taxi ride and where that money is being used?

Marsha: Taxis, gas bill, electric bill, state taxes, city taxes. I'm sorry. I don't have the list in front of me right now.

Brian Lehrer: Marsha, thank you very much. Comptroller.

Comptroller Brad Lander: Marsha, can I ask is that the 7th Ave, 9th Street elevator that we just got installed that you're using?

Marsha: Right. The lowest section of the F train stop, instead of the highest section on the 8th Avenue side. Yes.

Comptroller Brad Lander: Absolutely. Look, I fought for years as a council member to win that elevator. It took me a decade, unfortunately, and all of us in the community, we even used participatory budgeting to vote some money into that elevator and I'm so glad it's there but we can't have that be the process that gets elevators in the rest of our subways that would make it possible for you and for other folks like you.

Look, I agree with you, better urban planning is needed to integrate our transit and transportation goals. I like some of your ideas. I'd love to follow up on them. Look, I understand why folks are frustrated. I want to see us have subway elevators like that at every station. If we don't move forward here, we're never going to get there.

Look, I hear you. I want folks like you to be able to get smoothly in and out to see your doctor, again, to do business, to see those great cultural institutions, but if we cancel congestion pricing now, what we're going to wind up with is a subway system with old signals that don't work for people with very few stations. It's only 30% now that are accessible and with a level of traffic. That really is a disaster. Better urban planning, 100%, keep the ideas coming, and let's try to work together to do this in a way that genuinely moves the city forward.

Brian Lehrer: Marsha, thank you for your call. If you do actually counter-sue him, make sure your lawyer gets in touch. That'll make an interesting segment, too, but I think she was speaking conceptually and rhetorically. I'm just going to mention before we go on to some other topics that there are a lot of people calling in and writing in opposed, there are a lot of people calling in and writing in for congestion pricing as well. I'm acknowledging we took some texts and calls that were more critical because our guest is for and this is not a poll. We're trying to have meaningful conversations so that's why we did what we did in this particular case.

Comptroller Brad Lander: We come on, Brian Lehrer, to hear from people who disagree with us and try to push the conversation forward.

Brian Lehrer: Brad Lander, honorary producer for getting it about the show. Moving on, you just mentioned cultural institutions and I think you've been commenting or your office has been commenting on the vandalism aimed at the Brooklyn Museum and some of its leaders. Do you want to talk about that?

Comptroller Brad Lander: So terrible. I'm just so sick and angry about this. Last week, the Brooklyn Museum, its director, the wonderful Anne Pasternak's, a member of the synagogue in my neighborhood, and several board members, their homes were blasted with just hideous graffiti. These anti-Semitic attacks have gone so far. I want to see--

Brian Lehrer: Are they anti-Semitic in your view as opposed to--?

Comptroller Brad Lander: Yes

Brian Lehrer: They're vandalism but policy-oriented against supporting institutions that support the war in Gaza?

Comptroller Brad Lander: These attacks were anti-Semitic, the language at Anne Pasternak's home, I think unquestionably targeted her as a Jewish New Yorker. Yes. I'll be honest. I don't understand the attacks on the museums as institutions anyway, and how that will make things safer for Palestinians in Gaza. Look, I want to see a ceasefire. I want the hostages to come home. I want a path toward mutual recognition, but none of that comes from putting anti-Semitic graffiti on the homes of the board members and directors of the Brooklyn Museum, which I don't know if you've been there on first Saturday on those evenings, but it's the most diverse, inclusive, beautiful place for bringing different kinds of people together I'm aware of that's here nor there for these attacks, but, yes, they're way over the line. They absolutely are anti-Semitic and they got to stop.

Brian Lehrer: Funny enough, The New York Times pointed out that, in their words, "To those who were targeted, it must have also seemed profoundly confusing. Seven months ago, the museum was criticized not for a sympathetic view toward Israel, but instead for anti-Semitic leanings, the turmoil in which so many universities and cultural institutions were now engulfed was playing out at the museum as whiplash." You agree?

Comptroller Brad Lander: I've talked to some staff and board members and they're heartbroken. They're just trying to go to work every day and provide the city with this essential resource. No one deserves this, but they sure don't. Again, these horrible attacks, they don't do anything to advance the cause of peace. They don't do anything to make kids in Gaza safer. They just make us all less safe and they got to stop.

Brian Lehrer: This actually brings us back to Governor Hochul and the subways in a roundabout way because she floated the idea last week of reinstituting what I guess there was before COVID. I was never aware of it before COVID, but a mask ban on the subways so that, in this case, people who may be considering illegal acts that they consider pro-Palestinian can't break the law, or commit violence, or threaten people while hiding their faces. Do you support that?

Comptroller Brad Lander: I do not support a mask ban on the subways. Look, as you could hear, I feel really passionate about what we have to do to stop the anti-Semitic attacks. I want to see the folks who did it held accountable, but a mask ban on the subway, to me, is just a invitation to civil liberties violations. The main people I remember seeing on the subway with masks before the pandemic were Asian American New Yorkers trying to keep themselves safe in a public health context.

COVID rates are rising currently. Air quality's going to be bad this week. Why would you tell people that they can't wear masks on the subway that they might believe they need for their own health? I don't really see how a mask ban on the subway is going to keep people safer.

Even in the incident that the governor was referring to, the main person was not wearing a mask. They were easily identifiable. I think it's a mistake from a public health and civil liberties point of view. We do need action on anti-Semitism and hate, but this is not it.

Brian Lehrer: I'll be transparent about a little self-interest. I generally wear a mask when I'm on the subways because of various risk factors. Unless the car is very uncrowded and I see people continuing to wear masks on most subway rides that I take, there are few in each car. As well as it being more common among Asian Americans. Another layer of reason there not to, but do you think that the governor is serious about that? Why would she even float that while saying people for religious reasons or health reasons? I think those were the two possible exemptions that she cited. How would they even enforce it? Would I need to carry a doctor's note every time I take the one train? You know what I mean?

Comptroller Brad Lander: I know from your doctor or your rabbi, I really don't know. Look, when these things happen, you want to do something and you say, "Here's something to try." It is hard to root out hate and make people feel safe, but that doesn't justify a policy that could hit you, that could hit the folks who are immunocompromised, and of course, just folks who are concerned about their health, so yes, let's try something else.

Brian Lehrer: Also, I guess this gets us back to congestion pricing a little bit, but the politics of it. It's been widely analyzed that the governor's main reason was to help democratic candidates in the suburbs running for Congress. For you as a progressive, I'm sure you very much want to see Democrats retake control of the Congress, and we saw the backlash in 2022 that put some more Republicans in the Congress from the New York City suburbs backlash to perceptions of crime, I think, at that time were key.

Now, it's immigration. Now, it's congestion pricing. I wonder what you think of if the governor's reason really was to help protect those Democrats in the suburbs who mostly are running against congestion pricing themselves, or taking that position that that might be a worthy trade-off to make at this particular time when Donald Trump might wind up president. You don't want him to have a Republican Congress if that was really the governor's reason.

Comptroller Brad Lander: The most recent swing seat election was Tom Suozzi's win for Congress in Long Island, and he supports and defended his support of congestion pricing. I really don't even understand the argument. Others, Pat Ryan, who I was thrilled to knock doors for two years ago. He doesn't support congestion pricing, and he'll explain that to his constituents and push against it, and that's an area where I guess Tom and Pat disagree, but they both are great examples of Democrats who winning swing districts because they're clear and honest with their constituents because it's clear they're going to fight for them. They're going to tell them what they believe and be honest with them.

That's how I think Democrats will win everywhere, in the suburbs as well. That's part of why I think the flip-flopping by the governor here hurts Democrats. We got to be clear what we think, put something out there, talk honestly to people when they disagree with you. Make some room for Pat Ryan to think one thing and Tom Suozzi to think the other, but I think the flip-flopping will actually hurt us much more.

It's also the case that where congestion pressing has gone into effect that opposition diminishes as people see its benefits and understand that they're not that likely to feel its harms, and if it had gone into effect on June 30th by November, I think we really would've been in a different place. If we're still fighting about it, then it's going to be a more salient issue, so even on the politics I think this was a mistake.

Brian Lehrer: Terence(ph) in Canarsie on something completely different. Terence, you're on WNYC with Comptroller Brad Lander.

Terence: Hi. Can you hear me okay?

Brian Lehrer: Yes. We got you.

Comptroller Brad Lander: Hi, Terence.

Terence: Mr. Comptroller, thanks for your financial stewardship and you've been my hero since you led the effort to reduce plastic bag usage several years ago in the city, but I want to ask, this is Pride Month. I want to ask a question about the Pride March. I'm not a member of the gay community, but I think this is a fabulous event and I saw you and numerous elected officials participating last year and expect you will do so again this year.

In my view, this event has really been tainted the last few years by the decision to ban gay and lesbian police officers from participating. They participated for many years prior to 2021, and one can go back and look at the photos of onlookers cheering them on along the parade route. I believe their organization is called the Gay Officers Action League.

You seem like the kind of leader who abhors discrimination and bigotry, so will you be my hero once again and call for the immediate reinstatement of LGBTQ police officers seeking to get back into the Pride March?

Brian Lehrer: The ban, just to understand it, the ban is because the NYPD, as an institution, is seen as anti-gay and otherwise repressive, and therefore, gay police officers, gay and lesbian LGBTQ police officers as a group, were barred from the march? Is that the--?

Terence: Well, I guess we'd have to ask the organizers what their rationale is. In my view, they were catching a lot of flak several years ago for two things; taking so much money from corporations and also having police officers in the march. In my view, they decided to throw the police officers under the bus, and they're still taking tons of corporate money.

Brian Lehrer: Got it. Comptroller Lander?

Comptroller Brad Lander: Thank you, Terence. It's a good question. Look, pride started at the Stonewall Inn in reaction against what was then 50 years ago police action. That said, it's my understanding that it's about on-duty officers carrying guns and that maybe there's a way to make room for LGBTQ police officers, which we're so lucky and grateful to have to participate in the march in a way it's not a police action, but that is a signal of who they are. I'll follow up and talk to folks, and Brian, I'll report back to you.

Brian Lehrer: Okay. We just have a few minutes left. Excuse me, as I swallow water into my lungs instead of down into my stomach. Sorry folks. Did you see the Politico New York Playbook this morning, their newsletter that goes out to so many people? "Top Story: Brad Lander, seriously considering primarying Mayor Adams next year may announce next month." Can you confirm?

Comptroller Brad Lander: Look, it's something I'm thinking really seriously about. I love this city. I love serving the people of this city. As I talk to them, they're anxious about the city's future and about its leadership. I was out across the boroughs all weekend. I kept talking to people who were saying, "On the weekends, we want to see the public libraries open and the illegal weed shops closed." That's about providing the management and leadership the city needs. I have not made any decisions, and I'll be happy to come back on and talk to you more about it when I have.

Brian Lehrer: It does look like you're trying to get a charter revision proposal. This may sound like democracy want weeds to a lot of people, but there's this whole back and forth between the mayor and city council now. Council passed this bill that would give themselves the power to approve or deny more mayoral appointees. The mayor apparently isn't paneling a charter revision commission, which also has to do with who has what power. You're jumping into that fray. Can you explain that whole scene as you see it?

Comptroller Brad Lander: I will do my best. Look, there is good reason to doubt Mayor Adam's motives for appointing this charter revision commission. It does seem to be in this tiff with the city council. They proposed legislation that would require a charter amendment, and he's trying to quash that with a hastily empaneled charter revision commission.

That said, there's no doubt that we could use better management and especially better fiscal stewardship. I came forward to the charter revision commission with five really constructive proposals that would improve the way the city's run, make sure we've got adequate money in our Rainy Day Fund for when we hit a recession, that we actually know how much we need to invest in our infrastructure, that we pay our vendors on time, that we keep our debt under control.

We presented those to the commission last week. They are independent and if they want to show that they're doing their duty, I hope that they'll put some of these proposals on the ballot. Citizens Budget Commission backs three of the five proposals we've made. They're very constructive and hopefully could get us beyond this political back and forth to really focusing on what will make the city run better for the long term.

Brian Lehrer: If either yours or the mayor's proposals are on the ballot, that's another set of things that we would certainly cover on this show, that New York City voters would have to get their minds around in addition to everything else that they'll have to vote on this November. Correct?

Comptroller Brad Lander: That's right. It will be the same ballot in November that you're voting for president will have proposals this commission would put on the ballot to change the charter. Yes. We'll need to have more conversations in advance of that.

Brian Lehrer: Thirty seconds, describe your favorite charter revision proposal of your own out of your five.

Comptroller Brad Lander: [chuckles] Well, number one really is making sure that we've got enough money in the Rainy Day Fund for when we hit a recession so we don't have to lay off teachers or underfund our parks. The voters voted in 2019 to create the Rainy Day Fund, but there's no rules for putting or keeping money in it. It's just the vicissitudes of the council and mayoral negotiations.

We've got a great proposal for annual deposits, so it builds up over time. You've got some money in your savings and when you hit a hard time, you could keep your city going strong.

Brian Lehrer: New York City Comptroller Brad Lander. Who knows, by next month, he may be New York City Comptroller and mayoral hopeful. Brad Lander, thanks for coming on as always.

Comptroller Brad Lander: Great to talk with you. Thanks so much, Brian.

 

Copyright © 2024 New York Public Radio. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use at www.wnyc.org for further information.

New York Public Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline, often by contractors. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of New York Public Radio’s programming is the audio record.