Title: City Politics: Who Will Win Progressives' Votes?

[MUSIC]

Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning, everyone. On today's show, the scholar of authoritarianism, Anne Applebaum, on how the US is becoming more like Viktor Orban's Hungary by design, what Trump's climb down from some of his tariffs and anti-Federal Reserve language yesterday does to fit into the larger democracy vs. authoritarianism struggle, if anything, and what Anne Applebaum thinks can be done for democracy preservation. Anne Applebaum coming up. We'll continue our series on being upwardly mobile without a college degree. We'll invite more of your stories.

We'll start locally on the New York City mayoral race. Our lead City Hall reporter, Elizabeth Kim, is here as usual on Wednesdays for remember what used to be her weekly check-in after Mayor Adams' Tuesday news conferences. Those are still happening, and we'll play a clip, but we've started broadening the scope of these segments to meet the moment as it is in the city, as it actually is right now, with the multi-candidate Democratic primary coming soon, to be followed by a possible five-way race in the general election, in which anything could happen.

A Working Families Party as opposed to a Democratic Party candidate could be elected. The Republican candidate, Curtis Sliwa, could be elected in a five-way race. What do New Yorkers want for the city the next four years? That is squarely on the table and squarely what we will be mostly talking about, I think, these coming Wednesdays now with Liz. Her latest article on Gothamist is about the competition between two of the progressive candidates in the Democratic primary, in particular the city comptroller, Brad Lander, and the state senator from Queens, Zohran Mamdani. Hi, Liz. Happy Wednesday.

Liz Kim: Happy Wednesday, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: There are many candidates in the Democratic primary. Why did you write an article specifically about Mamdani and Lander?

Liz Kim: Well, I first got interested in the inner workings of the Working Families Party when I started reporting on how they were strategizing in this moment. What they are doing is they are coming out with a slate of candidates that they are endorsing. It is a slate of four that includes Brad Lander, Zohran Mamdani, Adrienne Adams, and Zellnor Myrie. What they're doing in addition to that is they want to tell voters not to rank Andrew Cuomo for mayor.

This was part of what was called the D.R.E.A.M. strategy. It was originally Don't Rank Eric Adams or Andrew Cuomo for Mayor, but that has now since changed to just not ranking Andrew Cuomo since Mayor Adams won't be participating in the Democratic primary, and will be running instead as an independent in the general.

Brian Lehrer: Right. Just to linger on that for a second, I saw that they've modified what the acronym D.R.E.A.M. stands for. Instead of Don't Rank Eric and Andrew for Mayor, now that Eric is out, it's Don't Rank Evil Andrew for Mayor, I see that some of them are saying.

Liz Kim: Right. Kind of creative, right, Brian? [laughter] It was a creative-on-the-fly sort of switch. They came out with a slate several weeks ago last month. They're endorsing a slate of four, but they've also committed to coming out with a first choice. That's when I got really interested in this idea of who are they going to back of these four candidates, because it would be kind of a move toward trying to coalesce the left. I think that that has traditionally been something very difficult for progressives to do, which is unite.

A few weeks ago, someone had told me that when they were doing endorsement interviews with all of the candidates who were seeking to be part of the slate, Brad Lander had a very difficult and tense interview with the WFP. These are top members of the WFP. They have public interviews, and then they also have one that's behind closed doors. The one that was behind closed doors, I was told, was difficult for Lander. They pressed him on a lot of issues. They felt that he had moved to the center or to the right on public safety. Lander was part of a wave of progressive elected officials who were part of the defund movement, to basically in favor of diverting some police funding toward social services.

This was, in effect, a way of reimagining public safety, but now Lander has pledged to hire more police. They really tested him on these types of issues. That really interested me because then I started talking to other people who confirmed it. I later even sat down with Lander himself, and he acknowledged that-- He called it a "very blunt conversation" that he had with these members. What you need to know about Lander is that – and he himself has said it too – he would not be where he is without the Working Families Party. Prior to being Comptroller, he spent 12 years as a City Council Member. He co-founded the Progressive Caucus.

Brian Lehrer: Right.

Liz Kim: Many people credit him with building the progressive movement in New York City. It was very interesting to me to see now him face this kind of scrutiny with a party that, of the candidates, he has the closest ties to. Then as I began to dig deeper into it, it became clear that there is now this ongoing debate within the party between him and Zohran Mamdani. Now, why those particular candidates? Well, I would say in terms of fundraising, both Lander and Mamdani are expected to raise the maximum that's allowed under the city's matching funds program. That is very important. They will both, at the end of the day, come out with roughly $8 million. That means they have the money to get their message out.

The second benchmark is polling. This is where Mamdani has really broken out, and he's far ahead of Lander. He is at around 16%, 17%. Lander has stayed in the single digits, around 6%. He's in a tie with some of these other candidates. The conversation and the debate are really around these two candidates. In many ways, it's this classic tension on the left, and it's been described to me as the politics of purity vs. the politics of pragmatic power building.

The politics of purity would be embodied by someone like Mamdani. He is someone who is the furthest left. He is a democratic socialist. He has embraced ideas like free buses, city-subsidized grocery stores. The idea of that is he is trying to differentiate himself in this moment from moderate Democrats.

Then you have Lander, who is, you could argue, trying to build a bigger tent. He's trying to do that by answering some of the concerns that New Yorkers have about public safety, which is why he has moved away from his position from defund to now wanting to expand policing.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, we can take this head-on on the phones. If there are Zohran Mamdani supporters listening and Brad Lander supporters listening, give us a call. 212-433-WNYC. I know we're going to get Mamdani supporters because that's where I think the most passionate Democratic primary voters are right now. Passion wins in talk radio in terms of people actually taking the time to pick up the phones and call in or text, so I know we're going to get Mamdani supporters. You are invited at 212-433-WNYC.

If there are Brad Lander supporters out there, and Liz's article does mention the brewing battle, as she puts it, between Mamdani supporters and Lander supporters, you are both welcome in, both groups of you. 212-433-WNYC, if for part of this segment, you want to just make your case. I know it's a little early, but voting will begin before you know it in the Democratic primary to see who the Democratic nominee will be for mayor. 212-433-WNYC. Specifically for the moment for Zohran Mamdani supporters and Brad Lander supporters, if you've already decided, make your case. 212-433-WNYC, call or text.

I guess we can add to this bucket list people who are not as engaged as those who have already decided here in April who they're going to support in the Democratic primary, or who you're going to rank first, we'll put it that way, since it's a ranked-choice primary.

If you're undecided in the Democratic primary between-- for the moment, anybody between-- Well, okay, it can be between anybody. We'll include Andrew Cuomo in this, though Liz's angle is the debate within the progressive camp for how to defeat Andrew Cuomo in the primary. Anybody who is thinking about it, but so far you can't make up your mind, you're invited to 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692, call or text.

You mentioned policing, Liz. You also wrote in your article that a key source of controversy is Mamdani's criticism of Israel over its war in Gaza, a divisive issue among Democrats, as you put it, especially for those concerned about Jewish voter support. Mamdani is the lead sponsor of a state bill, you remind us, to ban New York nonprofits from funding illegal Israeli settlements. Opponents have labeled him anti-Semitic. Mamdani has argued he is defending human rights – that's all from your article. Does Lander oppose that bill or speak differently about Israel and Gaza?

Liz Kim: I don't know Lander's position on the bill, but he's certainly more careful in how he walks this tightrope. It's this tightrope because there is now this move to equate criticism of Israel with being anti-Semitic. I think Lander is certainly more-- he's certainly aware of that. This issue around Israel, I think, is also why people-- and it's not whether or not they disagree or agree with Mamdani's position on this, but this is why progressives who are trying to think tactically about what they do in this moment, they worry that Mamdani has "a ceiling." I would hear that again and again, "He has a ceiling. He has a ceiling."

One of the reasons they say that is because they believe that Andrew Cuomo, and also some of the super PACs that are supporting him are going to use this argument. They will weaponize this argument against Mamdani, and they will label him. Cuomo, in fact, has gone out and called not just Mamdani, but also Lander, an anti-Semite. This whole painting of the left as anti-Semitic will be an argument that many believe will intensify with two months left in the primary.

The question is, do those shots land with voters? Does it in fact bring down Mamdani's numbers, especially with Jewish voters? That's a question, I think. I don't know for sure that that's going to be the most compelling issue that shapes this race, but we'll certainly see.

Brian Lehrer: On Cuomo and Israel, I don't know if you've reported on this yet, but I read that he joined the actual legal team defending Prime Minister Netanyahu from charges of war crimes brought by the International Court of Justice. It's one thing to say Israel has the right to defend itself, it's another thing to officially sign on to Netanyahu's legal team for how he is conducting the war in Gaza. Do you have anything on that, and if Cuomo thinks that's a winning strategy, or how that might play out in the primary debates once we get there?

Liz Kim: It's clear that even before he announced his run for mayor that he was trying to build support amongst pro-Israel voters shortly after he left office. When he started to think about a political comeback, it was reported that he was speaking in synagogues, and he was trying to form this nonprofit to raise awareness of anti-Semitism. It doesn't surprise me, but he clearly wants to own this more conservative lane. We will see how Democrats respond to it.

Brian Lehrer: Let's take a few calls. Here is Mamdani supporter Maya in Brooklyn. Maya, you're on WNYC. Hello.

Maya: Hi. Yes, I am a volunteer for Zohran's campaign. I really believe in everything that he says he's going to do, and I think that we have a lot of grassroots support. I think that there are way more people in the city who want what he is offering than the mainstream media may be aware of. Again, I'm a volunteer, so I might be biased. [chuckles]

Brian Lehrer: Right. Well, that's okay. You're allowed. Congratulations on your baby. [laughs]

Maya: Thank you.

Brian Lehrer: Another baby makes their radio debut on The Brian Lehrer Show. What makes you a Mamdani volunteer, primarily?

Maya: I am a socialist. I would like, in New York, where the poorest are taken care of, and I think that he is going to do that. We are low-income. We're on Medicaid. We ride the bus. We are in a precarious housing situation, so I feel like he's the best option for my family.

Brian Lehrer: Maya, thank you very much. I think somebody needs your attention. [laughs]

Maya: Yes. Thank you.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you very much. We appreciate your call.

Liz Kim: Brian, Maya makes a very important point. She's a volunteer. Something that I think hasn't been reported enough is the fact that Mamdani has built out the largest volunteer operation among all the campaigns. One person in the WFP who told me-- he's been around New York City politics for a really long time. He told me he thought it was unprecedented in size. These are thousands of people who are helping him knock on doors. That's also a consideration that the party is thinking about when they're deciding between these two candidates, because they're thinking about what is the strength of the campaign.

It's not just fundraising. These kinds of people on the ground, these are boots on the ground. They matter in elections. That's certainly something that they're thinking about when they're comparing these two candidates.

Brian Lehrer: All right. Let's go to another caller. We heard a Mamdani supporter. Here's Lisa in Flushing, a Lander supporter and apparently Mamdani critic on at least one or two issues. Lisa, you're on WNYC. Hello.

Lisa: Yes, hi. Thank you for taking my call. Yes, I would like to point out that this Mamdani guy, a big dude socialist, he couldn't even come to the New York City retirees' mayor's forum. He has not endorsed us. He does not respond to us. We want to keep our Medicare. We want to end Medicare disadvantage, which is part of Project 2025. Trump wants to put everybody on Medicare Advantage, okay? Lander unequivocally supports us, he came to our forum. I'm pointing out to you that this is total BS socialism, okay? You got it?

Brian Lehrer: [chuckles] I got it, Lisa. Let's explain that issue. Liz, maybe you can clarify if Lander and Mamdani do have positions on it. This is for people who don't know. Lisa is representative of many, many, many, many New York City municipal worker retirees who don't want to be switched from traditional Medicare to a Medicare Advantage plan, as I guess the city and some of the unions have agreed to do. That's being held up in court, as I understand it.

Are Mamdani and Lander different on the Medicare Advantage revolt? We have people texting about that too. Retirees are ticked off about this, and we hear about it a lot.

Liz Kim: That's right. Lisa is correct in saying that Lander has expressed his opposition to this agreement or deal that the city made. The city basically wants to lower-- Like any private company, they want to lower the cost of providing health care for their workers, and they're trying to make an attempt to privatize it. City retirees are against the plan. They have sued to stop this. Lander has opposed it. I have to confess, I am not sure where Mamdani sits on this issue.

Brian Lehrer: All right. We will try to clarify that. That's important. Let's do another round. Here's another Mamdani supporter. Jonathan in Manhattan, you're on WNYC. Hi, Jonathan.

Jonathan: Hey. I just want to get on the air and say that I appreciate both candidates, but when it comes to the Israel issue, I think Madani is actually better long-term for Israel and for Jewish voters because of his stance. His strong stance, pro-Gaza stance, is really in the long term going to decrease anti-Semitism in New York City, in the United States, around the world, and any appearance of support for Israel's war on Gaza and Israel's colonialism. Green lights colonialism everywhere, green lights white supremacy, green lights fascism, ultimately. I think Mandani's strategy, his stances, his beliefs is really what's best for Jewish voters.

Brian Lehrer: Jonathan, thank you very much. Let's go to another Lander supporter. Here's Kitty in Manhattan. Kitty, you're on WNYC. Hello.

Kitty: Thank you, Brian. I am what's called the progressive practice pragmatist. To the extent that Brad Lander is very seasoned budget handler and he knows about government, and he is measuring his words because he needs to measure his words. What the Working Family purists must realize is that the whole idea of divide and conquer, of talking about him not being an absolutist on Israel or an absolutist on cops things is a death knell in terms of all of the people lined up to pick on and divide on these issues. Socialists must learn that you can't be absolute purist on these issues.

Brad Lander is competent and he is a committed progressive. That's the message that needs to get through, and not that he's on these issues that he's waffling. He's not. He's just practical and he's clear in state and in his messaging. Mamdani, I wish him luck in the future, but now we need somebody who can win in Staten Island and control this government and do well with it.

Brian Lehrer: Kitty, thank you very much. We mentioned, Liz, one issue, or the previous caller did, on which Mamdani is taking some criticism. I guess that is reportedly not a-- or, according to them, not a pure enough stand opposing the Medicare Advantage transition for retirees. Here's one in a text on which Lander is getting criticized, and that's on freezing the rents for rent stabilized apartments that Mamdani has explicitly promised to do that, I'm not sure for how long, and Lander hasn't. What can you tell us about that?

Liz Kim: That actually was also something that came up during Lander's interview with WFP officials. He was pressed on his position there. Now, I spoke to Lander about this, and what he has said – and he has said this publicly as well – is that his position on freezing the rent is he will not commit to doing it because he wants to see the numbers first. The numbers are basically what are the rental trends? What are the costs of maintaining these buildings? This is something that the Rent Guidelines Board takes into account. They look at the data before they make their decision.

Lander has argued that this is a very reasonable ask. That he wants to look at this data, but he also suggested, "My track record here is that, like in the past, I have looked at the numbers, and I have said that it's appropriate to freeze the rent." I heard that too as well from people who support Lander. They're saying, "We trust that he's going to make the right decision here because he is a progressive elected official." That's the question there. It's up to voters how they want to interpret. Whether they find his answer acceptable. That it's fair to say that he should have a chance to look at these numbers before coming to the conclusion that the rent should be freezed.

Brian Lehrer: I see you're doing a story today on Mamdani placing some Spanish language ads. Here's a short clip from one of those ads.

Mamdani: [Spanish language]

Brian Lehrer: Translation more or less says, "Nobody knows how to pronounce my last name. It's Mamdani, but sometimes they say Mumdari, Mumnari, and this is something that many immigrants have in common. It doesn't bother me. I know that people are doing the best they can. Same with me. I'm doing the best I can to talk in Spanish."

That was the translation there. Accurate enough, I hope. You know, Liz? As I watched that clip, and I did watch it, not just listen to it, as important as the words may be, is that he sounds pretty comfortable there, and he looked comfortable, to me, speaking in Spanish. This is not Mike Bloomberg's maybe earnest but halting attempt that some listeners may remember, right?

Liz Kim: That's right. That ad, which was released on social media on Saturday, has created quite a buzz among what I would call Latino politicos. They started talking about it on social media. Eli Valentin tweeted, "If his campaign keeps up this kind of intentional outreach, watch out." Then soon after that, Melissa Mark-Viverito, the former City Council speaker, she also praised the ad, and she wrote, "Too many candidates ignore and take us for granted. This is an honest and effective way to outreach to Spanish-speaking/Latino voters."

Now, Mamdani is a social media-- you could call him a social media star. He's been called the TikTok candidate. He's very comfortable on social media. In that roughly two-minute ad, he's not just standing or sitting. You see him actually walking the streets of New York, and that's something he often does in ads. I saw the ad, and my immediate question was-- I reached out to the campaign, and it was, "Is he fluent in Spanish?" The answer, which surprised a lot of the Latino political experts I spoke to, is he is not fluent in Spanish. He basically learned Spanish in middle school.

If you're someone like myself, who has tried to learn Spanish, I think what also stood out is the speed in which he's speaking the language. Like you said, Mike Bloomberg, who, to his credit, had a Spanish tutor while he was mayor and made an earnest effort to speak Spanish even at public events, he wasn't speaking at this kind of speed. You have this moment here where you have this candidate that seems to have this pre-natural ability to speak this foreign language. They told me that they did-- they filmed the video. It took around two hours, and they had a native Spanish speaker that helped him practice and deliver those lines.

Brian Lehrer: On Mamdani and Medicare Advantage, because we had that critical caller, we looked it up and looked for a statement by him, and we found one in which it sounds like he's firmly opposed to that. Here's the quote. "I am firmly opposed to privatization and Mayor Adams' reckless attempt to strip municipal retirees from the traditional Medicare benefits they were promised and earned." This is a quote from Work-Bites. He continued, "Forcing retirees onto a profit-seeking Medicare Advantage plan is irresponsible and wrong."

That sounds pretty unequivocal. Obviously, the caller was under a different impression. We had another texter who was under that same impression about Mamdani. I don't know if he's moved on that issue, but I thought that, in fairness, that quote was relevant to bring onto the air.

How is Lander reaching out to the Latino community, because your article says that's expected to be about 20% of the voters?

Liz Kim: Right. This is what is interesting about Mamdani's Spanish language ad, is that it is essentially the first of all of these candidates. We have nine Democrats running in the primary, and he is the first one to do-- Well, actually, I should correct myself. Jessica Ramos, who is a native Spanish speaker, has done these kinds of Spanish-speaking videos. I would say that Mamdani is probably the first non-native Spanish speaker to try and attempt this, and I thought this was noteworthy. It raises the question, why aren't more of the other candidates trying to appeal to Latino voters?"

I think it points to the uniqueness of this ad, but also of a candidate who is willing to try to pull this off. This is not the only thing they're doing. The campaign told me they're also going to hire a Spanish-speaking press secretary. They are really serious about trying to go after the Latino vote, which, as you said, could be as much as 20% of the turnout. Experts say that they expect that Cuomo will wind up winning the vote. A Siena poll has corroborated or indicated that that, in fact, might be true. Cuomo in that poll was leading with about 39%, and Mamdani fell in second, around 16%, so it looks like he could.

As one of the political experts I spoke to, there's nothing wrong in coming second. The fact that he's still trying and trying to maybe raise that number is noteworthy. He's surprised that some of the other candidates haven't tried it yet.

Brian Lehrer: We've been talking so far, for those of you just joining us and wondering, why are they only talking about Lander and Mamdani? We've been talking about Liz Kim's latest article, which is specifically about the competition between Lander and Mamdani to be ranked number one in the ranked-choice voting primary by the Working Families Party, as the Democratic left tries to figure out how best to defeat Andrew Cuomo in that primary. When we come back after a break, we're going to talk about the other candidates in the race, especially including Cuomo and Adrienne Adams, so no more Lander vs. Mamdani calls.

If you're calling just for that, clear the line and let somebody else in as we broaden this a little bit, and also talk about the really wild general election scenario that might be shaping up. Stay with us.

[MUSIC]

Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC as we continue for another few minutes with our lead City Hall reporter, Elizabeth Kim, on the mayor and the mayoral race. I'll say again, as I said at the top of the show, for those of you just joining, it used to be that Liz would come on on Wednesdays to talk about and play clips from the mayor's weekly Tuesday news conference. He's still holding those weekly news conferences, the only time all week that the mayor will take questions from reporters on the topics of their choosing, not his.

We're going to play an Adam's clip in just a minute, but we've updated these Wednesday appearances to be primarily on the mayoral race because that's the moment the city is in right now, not just dealing with Eric Adams, who may be kind of a lame duck at this point unless he gets reelected in November and politically, let's say, relevant to a different degree than he's been over most of the last four years, not necessarily more.

All right. Andrew Cuomo, Liz, he's polling with a big lead, but significantly, he's not over 50%. He's in the 30s in the polls, I see. A united ranked-choice opposition could defeat him. Does the Working Families Party plan to endorse a top choice, apparently either Lander or Mamdani, as we've been discussing, and a full ranking strategy to defeat Andrew Cuomo?

Liz Kim: Yes, that's correct. I was told by an expert that if Cuomo doesn't get above 40%, then a ranked-choice strategy that involves progressives doing what I said, ranking everyone except Andrew Cuomo, could defeat him. That is the plan. I think it's very interesting when you look at Cuomo's endorsements-- and he's gotten a lot. He's basically eaten up almost all of the big labor unions. The organizations and the individuals that endorse Cuomo only endorse Cuomo. If you look at the left, we have a lot of progressives.

For example, Nydia Velázquez, the congresswoman that represents parts of North Brooklyn and Western Queens, she came out along with, I believe, a group of maybe like six other elected officials who represent North Brooklyn and said they were going to endorse Lander, Mamdani, and also Adrienne Adams. Oftentimes, we will hear these other endorsements for these three candidates, and it's all part of what we often now refer to as a slate. I do wonder how long progressives can keep doing that.

Is there, at some point, where some of these endorsers might need to come out and say, "I want you to include these three or four candidates that I like, but I think you should choose this person first. This is the person that I'm choosing first." There's disagreement within the WFP on how important this is. Some people believe that that's not important. What's important is that we tell other progressives in the city that these are the three candidates that we like the most, and that just don't rank Cuomo.

Others believe that, no, at some point, we need to coalesce. We need to unite around a candidate in part because that can also give that one candidate the momentum they need to become competitive with Cuomo to raise their polling. Ranked-choice voting is still very new, and the way that people are approaching it is still, I would say, in an experimental phase, and we're going to see. It was interesting, though, that the WFP has committed to making that first-choice pick. It's signaled that they do believe it's important to tell voters who their first choice is.

Brian Lehrer: Does Cuomo have a ranking strategy? Because ultimately, he needs to get over 50% on one round or another of the ranked-choice voting tally.

Liz Kim: Like I said, his endorsers are just endorsing him. It's not like they're saying, "We're endorsing a slate of Andrew Cuomo and another moderate like Whitney Tilson or anything like that. He's not. He hasn't made any indication that he is going to team up with another moderate candidate. Certainly, the way Mayor Adams is going at him there's-- Obviously, the mayor is not even participating in the primary. I'm just saying that there isn't any indication that there will be some kind of alliance between Andrew Cuomo and another moderate candidate in the race, whereas very much progressives are thinking about co-endorsements, especially as we get closer to primary day.

That was something that we did see in 2021. If you remember, Andrew Yang decided to endorse Kathryn Garcia, and Kathryn Garcia did not return the favor. But Andrew Yang, by endorsing her, with a week left to go, we later saw that it did help Kathryn Garcia come within 8,000 votes of almost beating Eric Adams.

Brian Lehrer: We should probably also mention that in the news today, Adrienne Adams just picked up two significant endorsements from New York State Attorney General Letitia James and the big municipal workers union, DC 37. Why, in each case, do you think?

Liz Kim: This was something that was expected. Attorney General James, and also the leader of DC 37, Henry Garrido, they were among the people who had encouraged the speaker to make a run. The speaker's supporters believe that she is, in fact, best positioned to defeat Cuomo. She has a base of high-propensity Black voters in Southeast Queens. This is considered the heart of the city's Black middle class. This is the area that helped Eric Adams win the 2021 race. They think that she can build a coalition that can compete with Cuomo, who is also relying on a very, I would say, traditional Democratic coalition consisting of moderates, Black and Latino voters, and business interests.

Now, her problem is she entered the race late, and she hasn't been able to raise a lot of money to meet the city's matching funds threshold. She's not going to be able to rely on that money until rather late in the race if she qualifies. It will be interesting to see if she can use these two endorsements to pick up momentum, particularly in fundraising, but also to have a breakout moment, which is what she really needs.

Brian Lehrer: Let's take a phone call. Portia in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. Hello, Portia.

Portia: Yes, hi. I'm struck that Donald Trump won the nomination because he was the last man standing. He was not taken seriously as a candidate. Biden won his nomination – I'm talking about 2016 – kind of the same way. I'm wondering if something like that can happen in this mayoral contest and we end up with Curtis Sliwa. I realize I'm kind of conflating the primary and the general, but I'll let you deal with it.

Brian Lehrer: Yes. Well, we were going to go on to that anyway to wrap up the segment, and that's where Eric Adams comes back in. Here's a clip from his news conference yesterday. Then we're really going to lay out this wild how Curtis Sliwa or a non-Democrat endorsed Working Families Party candidate could become the mayor in November. Here's a clip from Adams' news conference yesterday touting his policy successes, as he describes them, after an interesting little stunt, if I can call it that, or public relations move, giving all the reporters copies of The Washington Post article about helping apparently mentally ill people in the subway.

Mayor Eric Adams: "Many people want to walk by. They want to ignore it. 'What are we going to do about the homeless?' Well, this is what we're doing about the homeless, the people who are here today. And so, last weekend, some of you may have seen The Washington Post put Lisa and the work on her-- of the PATH program on the front page of the paper. You know, did you-- did we give everyone a copy?"

Audience member: "Yes, we did."

Mayor Eric Adams: "Okay, good. That's good stuff. That's good stuff. You know, we shouldn't have to go to The Washington Post to highlight what our heroes are doing in New York City. How about highlighting some of them? How about, you know, you do the same? Why don't we start really looking at these heroes we have among us and not criticizing them, but lifting them up? But thank you to The Washington Post."

Brian Lehrer: Liz, what was that Washington Post story – give us a little clue here – that you found on your chair yesterday?

Liz Kim: This is a profile, and it's terrific. I encourage everyone to read it. It's by The Washington Post reporter Ruby Cramer, who you've had on this show.

Brian Lehrer: Yes.

Liz Kim: She follows a nurse who is part of a special outreach program that the city is funding to reach out to people who appear to be in a mental health crisis, and to convince them to come in either for shelter or a psychiatric evaluation. This is not a new initiative, the city has tried this in the past. This is the city's team. The state also has its own team, so there's about 10 of these teams. The city has five, and the state has its own, also five. You hear the mayor there complaining about why is a story like this being written by The Washington Post?

I think that the fact that it was written in The Washington Post speaks to, in part, the challenge that the mayor has in getting attention to his policies. I wouldn't say that it's because the local press hasn't tried or hasn't wanted to cover it. I want to point out that my colleague Stephen Nessen, WNYC's transit reporter, he did a story on the state's team, the MTA outreach teams, last year, basically when this first started. I'll read the headline of that story. "MTA outreach teams are involuntarily hospitalizing homeless people with signs of mental illness. We rode along for a shift." That's exactly what he did. He also produced a seven-minute radio feature on WNYC.

It is not true that local outlets have not covered this issue. I will say too that this is a topic that we have spoken about a lot, Brian, on this show. I have made repeated efforts to ask the city for this kind of access that they gave The Washington Post reporter, and they didn't give it. The other point I would make is to have gotten to 10 teams took the city some time. We can debate whether or not that was right, but it's not like they had these teams on the ground working last year. They were growing this program. It's at this point now where they are now saying, "Oh well, no one's covering it," but it took them a while to get to this point.

Brian Lehrer: Right. People should not be surprised if Cuomo wins in blue New York, including the Democratic primary, just as Adams won in 2021 rather than a more progressive candidate then. We've had Ed Koch for three terms, even as he became more conservative. Two terms of Giuliani, three terms of Bloomberg, each defeating well-known Democrats each time. Then de Blasio, then back to Eric Adams, someone who's more centrist.

Here's a listener who texted at least consideration for Cuomo. This was in the context of us comparing Brad Lander and Zohran Mamdani as alternatives to Cuomo. Earlier listener wrote, "Neither has the chutzpah to deal with Trump, hence Cuomo is a real choice despite lecherous uncle behavior." That's one way that Cuomo supporters, or potential Cuomo supporters, are seeing him. But then, to the general election, this scenario with Eric Adams as an independent, and the possibility that if Cuomo is the Democratic nominee, the Working Families Party will run a progressive candidate on their own line, maybe Mamdani or Lander, then anything could happen.

The wild card there is that there is not ranked-choice voting in the general election, which there is not. Cuomo and the Working Families Party and Adams could split the Democratic leaning vote, and Republican Curtis Sliwa could end up as the mayor, or Sliwa, Cuomo, and Adams could split the center-to-right vote, and it could be the Working Families candidate. It's really an anything-can-happen year. Right Liz? This will be your last thought, then we're out of time.

Liz Kim: No, that's absolutely right, Brian. That's why I also think that it is important to pay-- We look at Andrew Cuomo's polling and he's in 34-- He has a double-digit lead against Mamdani, but because of this scenario that you're laying out, that's why it is very important to see how the left responds in this moment, and who is the candidate that they coalesce around? Who is the candidate that they decide they can possibly lift to second place if that's what happens, if Cuomo does end up winning, and then decide to run in the general election?

Brian Lehrer: Liz Kim, our lead City Hall reporter. Talk to you next Wednesday, if not before.

Liz Kim: Thanks, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Still to come, the scholar of authoritarianism, Anne Applebaum, who has a lot to say about the moment the country is living through right now, and we'll continue our series on making a good living without a college degree. Stay with us.

 

Copyright © 2025 New York Public Radio. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use at www.wnyc.org for further information.

New York Public Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline, often by contractors. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of New York Public Radio’s programming is the audio record.