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Brigid Bergin: It's the Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. I'm Brigid Bergin, senior reporter in the WNYC and Gothamist newsroom, filling in for Brian today, who will be moderating the final New York City mayoral debate tonight. By the way, you can listen to it here on WNYC, watch it on New York 1, or on their YouTube channel. It starts at 7:00 PM. It is sure to be one to watch. We're going to begin today by talking about some of the latest New York City news and what it will mean going into tonight's final debate. My guests are Elizabeth Kim, my colleague on the politics desk in the WNYC and Gothamist newsroom.

Before we get into the campaign news, I want to bring in our colleague Ben Feuerherd, WNYC and Gothamist public safety reporter, who was covering yesterday's ICE raid on Canal Street, for a couple questions about what he saw there. Hey, Ben. Hey, Liz.

Ben Feuerherd: Hey.

Elizabeth Kim: Hey, Brigid.

Brigid Bergin: Ben, let's start with you. Tell me what you saw on Canal Street yesterday, and how did you know to be there in the first place?

Ben Feuerherd: Yes. A colleague of ours got a tip that something might be happening in that neighborhood, which has a reputation for an area where illegal street venues sell counterfeit goods. Made sense. What we saw were two raids by federal agents and immigration authorities on Canal Street and in the surrounding neighborhood. The first raid was pretty shocking in the sense that these masked federal agents were out arresting people. It wasn't too chaotic. Then, soon after, the agents returned to Canal Street, and that one was actually really chaotic.

The agents set up right on Canal Street near Lafayette Street and Center Street, which is really a busy part of the neighborhood. Lots of tourists, vendors, just really buzzing with people. As the agents took people into custody there, they tried to drive off. People started confronting them in the middle of the street. These really chaotic clashes between the agents and New Yorkers happened. Agents were shoving people to the ground, arresting people, sprinting down Canal Street to chase after people. At one point, I saw an agent pull a taser and scream at people to get back.

Brigid Bergin: Wow. That's probably a lot of the viral video that was captured. Sounds like it might have been related to that second wave.

Ben Feuerherd: Yes, absolutely. Right at Center Street and Canal Street.

Brigid Bergin: How long did this thing go on for?

Ben Feuerherd: Probably about two hours or so. Like two different waves of enforcement right on Canal Street. Yes.

Brigid Bergin: Do we know at this point how many people were taken into custody and what's happened to any of them?

Ben Feuerherd: We don't. We're definitely going to be following up today. A colleague of ours and I saw at least four people be arrested and then also more protesters or New Yorkers confronting agents be arrested as well.

Brigid Bergin: I know there were some elected officials who showed up, some advocates who showed up. What responses have we heard first from the mayor's office, current mayor's office?

Ben Feuerherd: I'm actually not sure if the current mayor's office has weighed in. I know they said we do not interact with ICE. We do not provide support to them. We saw people literally on the street yesterday, just what appeared to be everyday New Yorkers, voicing their extreme discontent with ICE and federal agents in the city.

Brigid Bergin: This is really unlike anything we have seen so far in New York City on this scale and this magnitude. Can you talk about some of the reporting lines you're going to be following today?

Ben Feuerherd: Yes, of course, we'd like to see what happens to the people who were arrested. Also, I guess the main thing we're looking for is, is this the new normal in New York? Are we going to see these sorts of operations in our city like they've seen in Chicago and Los Angeles? Then what is the reaction by city leaders and by everyday New Yorkers?

Brigid Bergin: Sure. Liz, I want to bring you in because that sets the stage for what I can only imagine will be an issue that will come up during tonight's debate. How are you going to be listening for how the moderators ask and the candidates handle that question?

Elizabeth Kim: You know that there's going to be a question about President Trump, and now there's a very specific question they can ask that just happened yesterday. This will be an example of how would you, as mayor, handle what appears to be a very aggressive crackdown by ICE in New York City? We've already seen some statements from the candidates. Zohran Mamdani, yesterday, he called it aggressive and reckless. Andrew Cuomo also denounced the raid, saying it was more about fear than justice, more about politics than safety. Republican candidate Curtis Sliwa has also criticized the raid. He said that the federal government should be prioritizing deportation of gang members, sex traffickers, and those involved in major crimes.

Just to get back to another question you had asked about Mayor Eric Adams, I think it says everything about this race. The fact that he's not running in that he did not come out himself with a statement. He did not appear at all. He is the mayor of the city. His spokesperson, though, did release a statement. It's his boilerplate statement on federal immigration policies, which is that he's been clear that undocumented New Yorkers trying to pursue the American dream should not be the target of law enforcement, but then left it at that.

Brigid Bergin: Ben, we've talked about how elected officials have responded, how the mayor's office has-- beyond the statement from the mayor spokesperson, has been not really part of this conversation. What has the NYPD said? Were they involved with this in any way?

Ben Feuerherd: The NYPD is always clear that they do not provide support to ICE, do not engage in civil immigration enforcement. They were out there yesterday, as they always are, just securing 26 Federal Plaza, which is the building where the immigration court is, where the FBI-- It's a big federal building downtown, and it's a focal point for protesters. To the extent they were involved, they were involved to protect the street outside of that building, but not involved in the actual enforcement.

Brigid Bergin: Ben, thank you so much. Liz, I want to pivot to talking about some of what has led up to this debate. This is obviously a backdrop that is very much going to be part of tonight's conversation. There's a whole lot of other stuff that these candidates are going to be talking about. Pretty much since the last debate, Andrew Cuomo has been putting a ton of pressure on Republican candidate Curtis Sliwa to get out of the race. To spend his campaign, he's been appearing on local talk radio and also on some podcasts. You brought a clip for us of a recent appearance of Cuomo on a podcast. Can you set this up a little bit for us?

Elizabeth Kim: Sure. This was Cuomo appearing with Logan Paul. He's a wrestler. I would call him a conservative influencer. He has quite a popular podcast that reaches a lot of young men, young, maybe right-leaning men. This is the audience that Andrew Cuomo is trying to appeal to in this moment.

Andrew Cuomo: It's life and death, because if you don't know what you're doing or you make the wrong call, people die. Right? New York City is a national target and an international target. Right?

Brigid Bergin: Liz, this is not a typical forum for Cuomo. What do you think prompted him to go here at this point in the race?

Elizabeth Kim: Brigid, he needs Republican voters. The polls show that he is behind Zohran Mamdani by double digits. He has Curtis Sliwa nipping at his heels because Curtis's last debate performance, he used a lot of his time to attack Cuomo. He has to be worried at this point that Sliwa can be a spoiler in this debate. What he's trying to do is he's trying to consolidate all of the anti-Mamdani support. He's facing the Democratic mayoral nominee in Mamdani. He's thinking, "Where else can I go?" He's trying to win conservative Democrats, but he needs to go further to the right.

Brigid Bergin: So far, we have really heard Sliwa completely rejecting these calls for him to leave the race. I know he was just on WABC this morning, making some very strong statements about it, but you brought another piece of tape from Sliwa from a different interview he did. This is with the Nate Friedman show, where he was asked was he okay if Mamdani wins this race because he stayed in the race. Sliwa's response was blasting the Democrats, and it went viral over the weekend. Let's take a listen.

Curtis Sliwa: I'm supposed to help them? How come they don't help themselves? Andrew Cuomo failed everybody in that primary. He even admitted it. Now he's basically saying, "I can't win without Sliwa votes." Where are your votes?

Brigid Bergin: Liz, he's raising this question essentially about the campaign that Cuomo is running in the general. These are the same issues that were raised about the campaign Cuomo ran during the primary, right?

Elizabeth Kim: Exactly, Brigid. You hear the way he says it. That is quite a clapback to Cuomo. The last time I looked, I think yesterday, that clip has garnered, I think, something in upwards of 7 million views. Yes, he's basically putting to Cuomo the question, like, "You have raised millions of dollars. You have a Super PAC supporting you. Where is your base? Where is your base of support?" It's a completely fair question.

Brigid Bergin: At the same time, we're seeing Cuomo, who is a longtime New York Democrat, comes from a storied family involved in Democratic politics, making these overt appeals to voters that might be otherwise considered Sliwa voters, Republican voters, appearing on-- himself appearing on WABC Radio and getting an assist from people like WABC host Sid Rosenberg, billionaire supermarket mogul John Catsimatidis calling on Sliwa to get out of this race. Yet Sliwa can point to some of the support that he is getting from some Republicans. Can you talk a little bit about that, Liz?

Elizabeth Kim: Absolutely. Brigid, you know the numbers. He has done well in raising his money. He's qualified for matching funds. Again, like I said, he is coming off what was a breakout debate performance, where I think-- I see it as him crossing over from being this fixture of city politics to almost a cultural icon in New York City, just bringing up, reminding New Yorkers of his history, his bizarre history in the city. [crosstalk]

Brigid Bergin: That moment where he talked about not wanting to be shot?

Elizabeth Kim: Getting shot in a cab.

Brigid Bergin: Not wanting to ride in the back of a taxi cab because he had been shot by people involved with organized crime in the back of a taxi cab. That was a very New York moment. You're probably not going to find that in another debate.

Elizabeth Kim: Right. He has this unrepentant authenticity about him that I think appeals to a lot of New Yorkers. It's signaling what is refreshing about him to many voters. Yes, absolutely. He's coming into this-- He is coming into the-- Saturday is the first day of early voting, and there's no doubt that he's coming in with a surge of momentum. Now, in terms of how many votes that really translates into in the city that is a deep blue city. Is it seven to one Democrats to Republicans? That's unclear. Clearly, he has a base. He has high-profile Republicans and the Republican Party behind him. What reason does he have to drop out of the race?

Brigid Bergin: Let's talk for a moment about Mamdani, who is going into this final debate remaining the frontrunner at this point. You wrote a story earlier this week about questions within his own camp and an effort he's making to project a certain maturity in the way he's trying to address the age issue. I want to play a clip of a video the campaign released poking a little fun about that over the weekend.

Zohran Mamdani: This weekend, I'll be making a change. I'm turning 34, and I'm committing that for every single day from here on out, I will grow older.

Brigid Bergin: He's making fun of the fact that his age has become such a central issue in this race, Liz. I think he was asking people to canvas for him on his birthday, something that's been very much a part of how he has run this campaign. You wrote that there are some people in his inner circle thinking about basically how to neutralize this issue for him. What can you tell us about that?

Elizabeth Kim: Yes, and I thought that video was a very clever way of hitting at what has been a vulnerability for him. This is something that I've been told that Mamdani himself has wrestled with, which is, "How do I address these concerns about my age?" Which was really concerns about his experience and can he govern if he wins the election and becomes mayor? One idea that the campaign had been deliberating was whether or not they should reveal a top appointment, like first deputy mayor or police commissioner, before the election.

Now, in recent memory, there haven't been mayoral candidates who have done that before the election. That typically happens immediately after they win the election. With that said, there are ways in which a candidate, a leading candidate, or even someone who's behind and wants some traction can leak, maybe leak a pick, or maybe even just signal a pick. Like one example I was given is when Bloomberg was running, and it was by no means that he was a lock to win. Not at all. He was an underdog.

People who watched him knew that if he did win, there was a high likelihood that Ray Kelly was going to be his police commissioner. Why? Ray Kelly was one of his campaign advisors on public safety. That was there. With Bill Bratton, Bill Bratton did an interview in October before the November election, saying that, yes, he would like to come back and be a police commissioner. He defended Bill de Blasio against criticisms that he was somehow anti police. There are things like that that a campaign can do.

Clearly, Mamdani's campaign has wrestled with, "What do we do? Do we, in fact, make an explicit announcement?" I think we're getting to the final stretch, and I'm hearing that it seems maybe more unlikely that they would do it, but I wouldn't rule it out. If they did want to do something like this, it would make sense to do it very much in the late stages of the race when you have maximum attention. Maybe the idea was that if he does feel confident in the polls, does this announcement maybe bring him a majority as opposed to just a plurality of votes.

Brigid Bergin: Sure. When I think back on the primary debate, Mamdani, when he was on stage, name-checked some people who are considered, I think, real experts in New York City governance as people who he would seek advice from. Wouldn't surprise me if he name checked some people tonight. I'm also curious, and our last question here, Liz, what else you are going to be watching for post-debate? I mean, the big news coming out of the final debate during the primary was that alliance that formed between Mamdani and a rival candidate, City Comptroller Brad Lander. What do you think? Anything that you're going to be keeping eyes on between now and the start of early voting and Election Day?

Elizabeth Kim: I guess more name-checking, like you said. I think that the name-checking is also a way of signaling who will be in his cabinet, who are the people that he is-- as a young lawmaker, who are the people that he's relying on to teach him about city government. I expect a lot more than that. Mamdani has a big rally planned at the end of the month with-

Brigid Bergin: Alexandria.

Elizabeth Kim: -Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Yes, the congresswoman AOC, and also Bernie Sanders. Then I wonder what Andrew Cuomo can do on the ground, similarly, in where he's-- These are the moments where you're giving your closing argument to voters. How does Andrew Cuomo and also Curtis Sliwa compete with that? We know that Mamdani can mobilize thousands of people to a rally like that. What do they do to signal that they have some momentum on their side?

Brigid Bergin: There is lots for us to cover and report on, but we'll leave it there for now. My guests have been Ben Feuerherd, WNYC and Gothamist public safety reporter, and my colleague, politics reporter Elizabeth Kim. We're both going to be covering the debate that Brian will be moderating tonight. We will be back here tomorrow with Brian to recap what happened. My thanks to you both.

Ben Feuerherd: Thank you.

Elizabeth Kim: Thanks, Brigid.

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