Title: City Politics: Candidates React to Midtown Office Shooting

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Brian: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning, everyone. We'll begin today on the New York City mayoral race with our usual Wednesday visit from WNYC and Gothamist political reporter Elizabeth Kim. Among our topics will be how some of the candidates are responding to Monday's mass shooting at the Blackstone Building on Park Avenue.

Also things that candidates Andrew Cuomo and Curtis Sliwa said on this show in this month's round of candidate interviews, Cuomo dismissing Mayor Bill de Blasio's role in bringing universal pre-K to New York City, and Sliwa dismissing the idea on the right of Zohran Mamdani as a mortal threat to New York City, even as Sliwa campaigns against him as the Republican candidate. Listeners, you can set part of the agenda too at 212-433-WNYC. As usual, call or text, 212-433-9692. Democracy at work, in another political campaign. This time, obviously, the mayoral race. Hey, Liz, happy Wednesday.

Liz: Happy Wednesday, Brian.

Brian: Let's begin with the candidates and the Monday shooting that killed four people at the Blackstone Building, plus the shooter who took his own life. Liz, I see you brought some clips of several candidates. You have Cuomo, Adams, and Sliwa. Plus, there's a written statement from Mamdani, who's returning from a family trip abroad. Before we even play the clips, is this the material of a campaign debate at all? Everyone deplores this shooting, of course. Are there issues related to it for the candidates to disagree on?

Liz: I think there is. What's really interesting, and it says a lot about the New York City news cycle, Mamdani was gone for roughly just 10 days. Before he left, a lot of the conversation was focused on, can he consolidate support among Democrats? There was reluctance. There has been reluctance by some leaders of the party. As an example, Representative Hakeem Jeffries. He met with Mamdani, but he did not endorse him afterwards. One of the complicating factors and issues looming over the relationship between Mamdani and establishment Democrats is his position on Israel and his association with the pro-Palestinian movement.

Since that time, we are now seeing, and we've heard these conversations on your show, is that the attention on widespread starvation in Gaza that is, in part, created by Israeli blockades has really shifted the ground on this issue for Democrats. It's not even just Democrats. Yesterday, you had Marjorie Taylor Greene. She became the first Republican in Congress to call the crisis in Gaza a genocide. Ritchie Torres, another Democratic congressman who is staunchly pro-Israel. He went on a Sunday talk show, and he had said that Prime Minister Netanyahu had done irreparable harm to support for Israel in the Democratic Party. Now you have Mamdani returning--

Brian: Can I throw one other thing in on that, which I think is an interesting indicator? Even Andrew Cuomo said last week, he estimated that half the Jewish voters in the Democratic primary voted for Mamdani, which Cuomo was basically acknowledging is a change from the past what might have been considering his position.

Liz: That's right, and it's backed up by polling, too, that showed that people who voted for Mamdani were widely critical of the war. This was done in the forward. It was something like over 70%. Now you have Mamdani coming back to a party that suddenly seems less hostile to his positions on the war because he has, in fact, very early on called it a genocide and was criticized for that. Now he has to confront a different issue, but it's a very familiar issue for mayors and mayoral candidates, and that's public safety.

Now, you and other listeners will remember probably 2021. That was the race in which Mayor Adams wound up winning. There was a moment in that race before the primary where there was a shooting in Times Square. Similar to this shooting, it was shocking. It was shocking in the fact that it was happening in this very touristed area. It's an iconic part of New York City, and it changed the race. It changed the race, because at the time, the race was very much a conversation about who can lead the city through the pandemic and through the economic recovery. All of a sudden, it became very laser-focused on this issue of crime and disorder because we were already seeing that crime was rising.

In particular, there was a precipitous rise in gun violence. Here we are again in another moment. It's different. It's different, to be sure, but we have a city that is once again kind of in shock. This has become a national story, and there are four victims, one of which was an off-duty police officer. I think the question for someone like Mamdani is, being someone on the left, being someone who has been critical of aggressive policing, how does he respond to this moment? You already see some of his rivals, his more moderate rivals, specifically Andrew Cuomo, trying to point to his rhetoric in the past and his criticisms of the NYPD, and making that into an issue.

Brian: To illustrate, here is Cuomo on CNN making this shooting an occasion to criticize Mamdani.

Interviewer: How would you evaluate Mr. Mamdani's response to this tragedy?

Cuomo: First of all, he's in Uganda on vacation. I'm sure he suggested that he feels remorse. How can you not? Police officers killed young family. Again, he has a consistent record that has gone back for years, where he has been highly critical, not just of the police department as an institution, but of the individual police officers. You can't take back 10 years of public statements and very harsh public statements and expect anyone to take you seriously.

Brian: There's Cuomo. We'll come back and discuss that. Here is Adams from the vigil for the dead yesterday, and why he thinks the incident reinforces his case for reelection.

Adams: We deserve better. I'm going to commit my life just as I did when I wore that bulletproof vest and stood on street corners and protected the children and families of the city. I would do it as the mayor of this city. I personally feel responsible for what happened to each one of the victims of this shooting. It's my job to keep you safe. That's what I sought to do when I took the oath of office, and I'm committed to doing it. I'm going to give my life to doing it. It breaks my heart when I see what happened to these innocent New Yorkers. It tore me apart. It took something away from me, but it recommitted to what we must do to keep New Yorkers safe.

Brian: Mayor Adams at the vigil for the dead, and here's Curtis Sliwa on News 12 with a take that he says bolsters his campaign.

Curtis Sliwa: I, like everyone else who saw it, I couldn't believe that a guy could get out of a double-parked BMW and then just walk leisurely with an assault weapon down the street that had to have been seen by a lot of people. I'd love to know how many 911 calls, if any, there were. Then walk into the building, shoot police officer Islam working his security job from the 47 precinct, spray the lobby, then go upstairs to the 33rd floor, shoot some others, and then eventually take his own life. Coming on the heels of Mangione and what he did last year is saying to yourself, "Boy, we just don't have enough cops."

Brian: Curtis Sliwa there on News 12. As for Mamdani, he posted on X, "I'm heartbroken to learn of the horrific shooting in Midtown and I am holding the victims, their families, and the NYPD officer in critical condition in my thoughts, grateful for all of our first responders on the ground." Of course, that police officer has since died. That was Monday night before Mamdani came back, which he arrived this morning, as I understand it, from his wedding celebration in Uganda. Liz, what's the argument that Cuomo and Sliwa are making? Would a larger NYPD force have prevented this kind of mass shooting, where a gunman drives from Las Vegas and walks into a money-rich office building with private security?

Liz: Essentially, yes. What you heard there, that's exactly what Sliwa said. He says there aren't enough police officers. This has been a question that's being put to a lot of security experts, a lot of public safety experts is could an incident like this been prevented by more policing, more security measures, more technology? My colleague Samantha Max has an excellent story on that on Gothamist today. I think the answer is it's very hard to say that there is a foolproof system that New York City can implement that prevents someone who apparently was on a suicide mission and determined to walk into a building with a rifle that he could not obtain legally in New York State.

We have some of the strictest gun rules in the country, and wind up killing four innocent New Yorkers in that building. I think the other argument that Cuomo gets at, which was something he said on CNN, was what impact a left-leaning mayor like Mamdani would have on police morale. The argument that he tries to make is to have someone who has been so critical of the police department would make it difficult to hire police officers, and it would affect their morale. They would feel as if the mayor doesn't have their back.

I think this was something that we saw play out with Mayor de Blasio, who is another progressive mayor, and it will be a question that will be put to Mamdani as early as today. He is expected to have a press conference at 2:00 PM with the president of 32BJ. One of the members of 32BJ was among those that was killed, the one who worked in security. This is the building--

Brian: That's the building workers' union.

Liz: Correct. Also, the head of the Bangladeshi American Police Association, because we know that the off-duty police officer was Bangladeshi. You can see that Mamdani understands the importance of this moment, because he arrived at around 7:30 this morning. He arrived without incident at JFK. There were some concerns that he might have been hassled or detained by federal customs, but immediately afterwards, they're planning a presser in Manhattan, and they're anticipating questions about this shooting.

Brian: Let's take a phone call from Neva in Crown Heights, you're on WNYC. Hello, Neva.

Neva: Hi. I just wanted to comment on Governor Cuomo's attempt at politicizing this tragic event. He's using the death of this officer to come at Mamdani and his supposed approach to policing in New York. I just wanted to say, as a Muslim New Yorker, I am still very much aware of the fact that Cuomo has not made any overtures to our community, and he's politicizing the death of this officer, who happens to be Bangladeshi American and Muslim. While he's busy doing that, I don't think he's going to visit a mosque to go to his funeral. I don't think he's going to visit his family, because he just uses us as talking points, but he won't talk to us.

Brian: Neva, thank you very much. Another point of view, I think, from Danny in Massapequa. Danny, you're on WNYC. Hello.

Danny: Good morning, Brian. I hope your summer is going well. My condolences, of course, to the families of all the lost. To your guest, I'm a retired lieutenant from the police department. Two of my children are actively on patrol presently, so to say it's a sleepless night after something like this is an understatement. There is not enough police officers in the world, unless one happens to be luckily standing outside that building, to prevent a maniac with a rifle and a mental illness from accomplishing something that he wants to accomplish. It happens in this country all the time. This one happened in the media capital of the world, and it's going to get the press.

There are conditions you can correct with uniformed cops. I used to make sure they were properly spaced. They weren't gathered around having a cigarette, talking, watching their cell phones, et cetera. There are other things that are not police-level related crimes. You can flood areas for robberies, purse snatching, man every booth in the subway, ride on subway cars, but this is a premeditated, determined assailant. It's a miracle it wasn't worse. Cuomo, do they have any self-reflection, these politicians on both sides?

We have his words about the no-bail law. We saw what that has done to street conditions in New York City. That's the true crime that's going on in the city for the past 10 years now, probably. He just ignores that and wants to blame this on Mamdani. Now, I'm obviously not a fan of Mamdani, and quite frankly, his comments towards the police are at a personal and mean-spirited and quite level that there's no coming back from that. That's not a policy disagreement, whether I believe in broken windows and you believe in restorative justice.

You call them anti-LBGT, anti-racist, they must be defunded and practically eliminated. You're going to send a counselor to a domestic violence call? I once had a woman almost being beheaded by a sword. If we weren't there, she would have been killed. He has no idea what he's doing, and he's a dangerous individual, but this has nothing to do with him. This is a completely different situation, and they should all just let the families mourn and not get involved.

Curtis Sliwa is the only person in this race that can speak of crime. The man has lived in the subways for 40-something years. He is authentic. I may not agree with him on everything, but he is what he is, and he knows what he's talking about. The people of the city, they know Curtis knows what he's talking about, because they've seen him for his--Curtis is like Ozzy Osbourne. He's been here forever. We know him. Anyway, that's my comment, Brian. Thank you.

Brian: Thank you very much. Very interesting from those two callers, Liz. To Danny, the retired NYPD lieutenant's point, and clearly, he's a Sliwa supporter, very critical of Mamdani, very critical of Cuomo for signing the bail reform law when he was governor, but taking the position that no, a larger police force would not have made a difference in this case, and so the candidates who are saying so are blowing smoke. Really interesting coming from him.

Liz: Yes. One point I want to make, because the first caller mentioned that Cuomo had not been to a mosque. That was something that came up during the mayoral debate, one of which you moderated.

Brian: I asked him about that on Monday's show if he had yet, and he couldn't say that he had.

Liz: He said he planned to. Now, what's interesting was on CNN yesterday, he was asked whether he planned to attend the slain officer's funeral. He said he plans to respect the wishes of the family, but yes, he would like to attend. Now, that funeral is going to be held at a mosque tomorrow. It would be very ironic if it turned out that the first mosque that Cuomo attends on the campaign trail is for this slain officer, who was Muslim.

Brian: Willie in Charlotte, North Carolina, you're on WNYC. Hello, Willie.

Willie: Hello. Good morning. As I was telling the screener, we have to deal with the root cause of all this, which is mental illness. The gun control laws have to be enforced 100%. Listen, I live in Charlotte. I can go down here to Monroe. I'm now about 15, 20 minutes from Charlotte, and I can go. There's gun shows everywhere here with tents and whatnot. I particularly don't own a gun. I don't want one, but everybody walks around here with a gun like it's the Old West. Mental illness is the root cause of all this. Politicians don't care. The administration certainly don't care.

I used to work in catering. I would go to the Federal Reserve building down here. You don't know half the stuff I had to go through just to go in the front door. Enforce the laws, deal with mental illness. How does a guy work at a casino and is getting a gun and a permit? That's the problem. Not officers. Obviously, doing what they can. Matter of fact, I was at a festival and there's hundreds of people and we had a shooting down here, and the police officer's on the phone playing with the phone. Nothing against them, but come on, let's be alert. Let's be aware of what's going on [unintelligible 00:19:17] sad story. It's going to happen again, and these politicians do not give a-- Anyway, I love your show. Have a great day.

Brian: Thank you very much. Interesting call from Charlotte on that. Listeners, we will talk with another guest later this hour about the gun laws aspect to this shooting. This kind of assault weapon commercially available at all or the legal purchase by a person with his mental health history. Liz, in the context of the mayoral race, I'm curious if any of the candidates who have spoken mentioned those things as issues or disagree with each other. Maybe they have unity on gun laws. I'm not sure.

Liz: Mayor Adams has used this moment, as he has in previous occasions, to say that we need stronger federal gun laws. That was something he said at the vigil. I think that was something he said, immediately, if not, maybe shortly after the incident happened. What's interesting about this moment for Mayor Adams is he is very much playing the role of the mayor, not a candidate. I have not listened to every single interview he's done, but I have not heard him try to politicize this issue.

You heard what he said at the vigil. I'm always struck by these moments because this is not the first time, unfortunately, that Mayor Adams has had to console the city because of the death of gun victims. Also, in this particular case, one of the victims was a police officer. In part because he was himself a police officer, he very much brings a sense of authority, and he can speak really well and I think movingly to these moments. The vigil was very much about him talking about we need stronger gun laws, very much imploring for that to happen, and how many times is this going to happen?

Then also speaking a lot about unity in this moment and how the city can come together, and talking about the slain officer's identity as a Muslim and how there are so many Muslim officers on the police force. I thought this was a very interesting moment for the mayor and how he handles it. I think reinforcing the notion that he is very much this identity as the public safety mayor, which will be something, of course, that his rivals will try to attack as we get closer to the election.

Brian: To that point, I want to play a clip of Adams. This is from WABC Radio, an interview that he did there earlier this month, partly because most of the coverage of Adams, it seems to me, is focused on his scandals. There are even new layers of those unfolding to some degree and being denied matching funds by the campaign finance board because of irregularities on things. That's mostly what I think we hear about Adams these days. Plus, Cuomo making the case that Adams is beholden to Trump, which is certainly an issue. Here's a few seconds of Adams making the case for reelection based on an argument that he's actually been an effective mayor on policy.

Adams: Public safety was my number one campaign item. We brought down crime, making sure the city was able to deal with the economics and recovering our economy after COVID. We turned around more jobs in the city. History of economy has never been as strong as it is now. Broadway had the greatest 12 months in the history of the city. When you look at the things I've ran on, you see that I made the promises, I kept the promises. I didn't give New Yorkers broken promises.

Brian: So interesting, Liz, right? There's his case, and the one that I would add to that that I've heard to make on other occasions is I handled the migrant crisis as well as anybody could handle it between Biden opening the border and the governor of Texas, Greg Abbott, busing so many migrants to New York to force them on a sanctuary city to make a Republican political point. Considering all of that, I handled the migrant crisis as well as anybody could handle it. Now, people will disagree. I'm just saying that this is the case that Adams is making for reelection.

Liz: I think particularly around the migrant crisis. At the time, we were saying, and even his critics were saying, that to have so many vulnerable, undocumented migrants coming into New York City, coming here because we have a social safety net, to have so many coming all at one time. Then for the most part, and I'm just saying for the most part, the crisis was not visible everywhere.

Of course, were there pockets where people did see people in encampments? Yes, we did see a visible rise of migrants, maybe on the subway system, but for the most part, it was possible for many people to walk through New York City and not, on a daily basis, be confronted with that crisis. I think that some people thought that was a credit to Mayor Adams and his administration for very quickly coming up with devising a plan of where to house these migrants, and then also, more controversially, devising a plan of how to get them out of shelter.

Now, to his point about crime, this was something, actually, that I was talking with my editor just on Monday. It was about how, initially, when we saw Andrew Cuomo enter the race, he tried to make the race about disorder and also about crime. I remember listening to his daughter speak at a union event where she talked about one of her daily rituals is when she goes out and it's late at night and she's riding the subway. She sends her father a text when she's back at home safely. That was to speak to this sense of insecurity in the city.

That never turned out to be the issue that really stuck with voters in during the primary. It turned out to be affordability. I think it's fair to say that was it because crime is falling? Mayor Adams made that his promise when he ran in 2021 that he would bring crime down. Is that, in fact, a credit to Adams that that is no longer really has been the most compelling issue to voters? It's interesting to see this is a very different incident. This type of mass shooting, I think they said something like it was the first time in 25 years.

These are very rare incidents, and overall crime is falling. It is a question, how does Mayor Adams-- On the one hand, he was even at the vigil, stressing how crime is falling and that this is a very rare incident, but how does he at the same time insert his bona fides as a former police officer to make himself seem more important in this moment and critical for New Yorkers?

Brian: We are in our weekly Wednesday visit with our political reporter, Elizabeth Kim, on the mayoral race. Make a point on your calendars. You can even have a little notification: "Oh, Wednesday, Liz Kim on with Brian to talk about the mayoral race." This will go on every Wednesday, probably up through the morning after the election. Liz, I don't think either of us are going to get much sleep on Tuesday night, November 4th. I know I'm going to be anchoring some of the election night coverage, and you are going to be wherever you are that night. Even sleepless, I think we can say that it's appointment listening from now through Wednesday, November 5th, with Liz Kim here on the show, and we'll continue with her for another few minutes after this.

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Brian: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. I don't know if you heard me correct myself or if my mic was already off going to the break, but I said the wrong year for next year's midterm elections. That was last year's elections. Obviously, next year is 2026. All right. Continuing with Liz Kim. I want to replay two clips from the interviews so far in our summer round of candidate interviews. Cuomo, Sliwa, and Jim Walden have been on. We're told Mamdani will schedule now that he's returned and we have an Eric Adams appearance coming up.

I want to replay two clips. Here's Cuomo on Monday's show. This was just two days ago. In exchange, we had about his criticism of Mamdani's universal childcare and other plans as unrealistic to get through Albany, but it becomes about Cuomo and former Mayor de Blasio. This made news outside the station, which is why we're replaying it. This begins in my question.

I know people are saying, Mr. Mamdani couldn't get all this through Albany. That's politics, but his supporters would say he's aiming high, and that's inspiring, and let's see how much he can get. In fact, they cite former Mayor de Blasio. He said here recently, supporting Mamdani, that few people believed he could get Universal pre-K enacted, two pie in the sky, but he did.

Cuomo: No, he didn't. The state did it. I did it. We had done it before Mayor de Blasio proposed it. That was a statewide program.

Brian: He got it through Albany with your help, is the way that worked out, but he was driving that train, wasn't he?

Cuomo: No, it was a state-provided program. It was done by the state. The city is a creature of state government. Most of the things that the mayor or mayoral candidates are proposing must be done by the state.

Brian: Liz, interesting turn for that to take on Monday's show with Cuomo that I wasn't expecting. Cuomo denying credit to de Blasio for perhaps the central thing that de Blasio ran and got elected on in 2013.

Liz: It just seems like that rivalry between them just won't die. What was also interesting, Brian, was that he makes that argument, the city is a creature of the state, an argument he made a lot as governor, and it's true, but yet he didn't apply that logic when you asked him about the city's affordable housing crisis. He basically said, that was on New York City. With respect to UPK, though, I immediately followed up with his campaign after his appearance, and I asked his spokesperson to explain exactly what was he talking about when he said, "No, I did it first. We had a state program." He told me that he was referring to a pilot program. This was announced in 2013. That's a year before the city started Universal Pre-K.

It was a $25 million investment to add roughly 5,000 pre-K seats. Now, just to give you the comparison, the program that was enacted in 2014, which was de Blasio's program, that wound up enrolling over 50,000 4-year-olds just in that September, and that was a $300 million investment in that year. Yes, that was funded under Cuomo's budget, but that gives you-- I think it's a little apples-to-oranges to compare a pilot program to a citywide program that was very much de Blasio's proposal.

Brian: And a pilot program compared to a universal program, which has that name, Universal Pre-K, and they pulled it off. There was a difference between the two on how to fund it, to be fair. I found this Quinnipiac poll from 2014 that said this, "By a 47% to 37% margin, including 49% to 405 among New York City voters, all New York State voters back Governor Andrew Cuomo's plan for Universal Pre-K with no new taxes over New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio's plan to fund Pre-K with a city income tax hike on high-income families, according to a Quinnipiac University poll released today," they said in 2014. There was that.

I think historically, de Blasio still pushed the idea to the center of the policy agenda at the time. Here we may come again as looking for a way to fund it. If Mamdani is elected mayor, he's going to recommend a tax hike on high earners and corporations, and he will have to get it through Albany, and we will see what the legislature does.

Liz: That's right, Brian.

Brian: Let's take a call from a pollster, I think an actual pollster, who has a new poll out from, I think, a pro-Mamdani group, and I saw the news on this, so I think this is a relevant newsmaking caller. Amit in Queens, you're on WNYC. Hello, Amit.

Amit: Hello, Brian. Nice to be with you. I'd love to share a little bit about the poll. I do want to make a correction. The poll is not a pro-Mamdani poll. It is completely independent, was not coordinated with the campaign or funded by the campaign whatsoever. No discussions with the campaign. All funds were privately raised. I just want to make that clear. The poll shows a remarkable amount of strength for Zohran Mamdani in this five-way race. We polled over 1,400 New Yorkers.

Brian: Can I just say, before you go into the details, I'll let you go into the details, but I'm looking at Politico today, and it does say the poll was co-organized and funded by Amit Bagga, you, a Mamdani supporter who advised him during the primary, so just for full disclosure, right?

Amit: Sure. That was not a formal relationship. He's someone I've known for a number of years, and I would speak to him informally about issues of city government, so that's just that. The poll itself that I worked with Adam Carlson of Zenith Research on is completely independent. We polled more than 1,400 New Yorkers. We are the first poll to have been offered in four different languages: English, Spanish, simplified Chinese, and Bangla. We asked 44 different questions, which means that we are the most in-depth poll that has been released of this cycle to date. You can cut our data nearly 200 different ways.

What we found was really interesting. We did not know what we were going to find going into this poll, and we didn't necessarily make those assumptions. In a five-way race, which is what the field currently is, you see that Zohran is leading with 50%, Andrew Cuomo is his closest rival at 22%, and he's followed by Sliwa, and then Adams, I believe, at 13% and 7%, with Jim Walden rounding it out at 1% and about 6%, not sure.

What's really interesting is that Mamdani is leading with all of the larger race groups, white folks, Black voters, Latino voters, and Asians, anywhere from 19 to 52 points. He's roughly equal between men and women. Another really interesting tidbit is that he is actually leading amongst all income brackets that we tested, and that's not necessarily something we expected, so under 50, 50 to 100, 100 to 150, and 200 plus. He leads in every single borough except for Staten Island. Perhaps that's not a terrible surprise where Curtis Sliwa leads him.

Brooklyn and Manhattan are his best boroughs, at plus 41 and plus 33 points respectively. While maybe, unsurprisingly, he dominates with renters and frequent public transit riders, leading them about 40 points ahead of Cuomo, in the five-way, he actually has a plurality of support from both car owners and homeowners. This is a question that we asked, we believe other pollsters have not asked, and this was actually surprising to us. He leads car owners by 12 points and homeowners by 10. I just want to make it--

Brian: Go ahead. You want to make one more point? We have to move on soon, but I'm curious why you think he would be leading among homeowners and car owners, but go ahead and make your last point, too.

Amit: Sure. I just want to say that it looks like he's been expanding his coalition since the primary. He now leads Black union households by 40 points, he leads Black voters overall by 19, college-educated Black voters by 50 points, and very notably, he leads Jewish voters in our poll citywide, and we polled down to denominations. We're the only poll to have actually asked about reforms, secular, conservative, orthodox, by 17 points. That, I think, is particularly newsworthy given where we are.

Brian: Do you find, as one quick follow-up, that he and Sliwa are competing on any of the same ground for voters?

Amit: I'm not entirely sure that our poll necessarily indicates that. I did happen to tune into your show, as I do most days, when Curtis Sliwa was on. Look, I'm a native New Yorker. I think the way in which Curtis Sliwa talks, the way in which he frames issues, and even some of his policy prescriptions, they're not necessarily what you would expect out of a Republican in 2025. They're not exactly MAGA. I wonder to what extent, now this is just me wondering out loud, I'm not suggesting that the poll says this, that they are addressing similar issues, but perhaps in different ways.

I think that Sliwa's unmistakable New York-ness, if you will, is appealing, in a way, to a lot of people. I can't say that the poll indicates that they are necessarily trying to cultivate support amongst the same groups. Certainly, there are very different demographics that are supporting them. I think you asked an interesting question.

Brian: Amit, thank you very much. We appreciate that you called in. Another interesting caller, Liz, Amit Bagga. Again, the Politico story on this poll this morning says the poll by Public Progress Solutions and Zenith Research shows Mamdani even picks up some support from conservative and orthodox Jews, even while they prefer Cuomo and Adams. The poll was co-organized and funded by Am-t Bagga, a Mamdani supporter who advised him during the primary.

It's one poll, Liz, and I want to follow up with a Sliwa clip before we run out of time that I think is going to be very interesting in this context. It's one poll. There may be other polls that show different things. I'm not closely following the polls. I'm closely following the issues. I don't know if you can put that in context. Maybe it is a poll that's the way they ask the questions is more slanted toward bringing out a Mamdani vote. I don't know. What do you make of it?

Liz: What I am wondering in this moment is if you take this poll, and there have been other polls, and they all show that Mamdani seems to be in a strong position in this moment, at least. The question then becomes for the campaign, what do they want to do? If you assume that he is strong, and Amit laid it out there, strong in a variety of demographics and types of New Yorkers that maybe you might not even expect, like car owners, but what do you want to do with that? Where are the places where you want to build?

Do you want to just keep building a bigger tent? Do you want to maybe start nailing down some of these policy proposals and getting more into the details, and maybe generating some more excitement around certain groups? Do you want to try to win the support of establishment Democrats? I think, for me, the question is if you assume that these polls are more or less accurate, the question for the campaign is if we're coming into the race with strength, what do we want to do? Where do we build?

Brian: To our last clip for today, when Curtis Sliwa was on, it was July 17th, he took a very surprising to me tack on Mamdani, downplaying him as such a threat to New York, as many of the other conservative critics are portraying him as. Here's some of that.

Curtis Sliwa: I listened to Mamdani say that we should have free bus fare, and everyone else gets bent out of shape, "Oh, that's socialism." I say, look, we had socialists in New York City, in our city council, congressmen from East Harlem who represented people there for many years. We've had communists elected before. Nothing to be frightened of. The state of Israel, Ben-Gurion, is a socialist country. Rabin was socialist. Stop the labels and stop the nonsense.

Brian: Curtis Sliwa here surprised me at the time, and I've been thinking about that clip, and I imagine maybe Sliwa is fishing in some of the populous waters that Mamdani's support comes from, that Adams or Cuomo aren't fishing in. I don't know. Does that sound plausible to you?

Liz: I think so. I really appreciated Amit's point about the appeal of Sliwa is in part the sense that he is a fixture of New York City, and also his authenticity. He, too, he's on the radio. He's a personality that I think people who listen to him would say they know intimately. Strategically, I think it's more important for him to try to peel away support from Adams and Cuomo voters. He's not going to win over the left or progressive voters.

He also is making a very fair point. That is a point that a lot of old-timer, left-leaning New Yorkers have made to me, which is this idea that it is so radical to have a democratic socialist running for mayor. It's blowing it out of proportion. After Sliwa made that comment, I actually went back to look it up, and I found out that we did have a council member who was a communist, Peter Cacchione. He represented a Brooklyn district, and he served in the 1940s.

Brian: Important to say that democratic socialists are not communists.

Liz: That's correct, yes.

Brian: There have been many more people with maybe views that lean toward Mamdani's on economics, as Sliwa was indicating, more than some of the current rhetoric might suggest, which doesn't mean he's necessarily the best candidate for mayor. Everybody's going to decide that for themselves. To put some of this in perspective, Liz Kim, joining us every Wednesday during the mayoral race. Talk to you next Wednesday, if not before.

Liz: Thanks, Brian.

 

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