Title: City Hall & City Council Report

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Brigid Bergin: It's the Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. I'm Brigid Bergin, senior reporter in the WNYC and Gothamist newsroom, filling in for Brian today. On today's show, we'll discuss the emerging culture wars around period product accessibility. Then our 100 Things in 100 Years series continues with a deep dive into the history of West Indies immigrants in New York, ahead of the West Indian Day parade on Monday. We'll close the show with a look at how hard it is to find childcare in the US during the summertime, and what's to be done about it.

First, we start with a double dose of news from City Hall. Its Wednesday. Mayor Adams held his off-topic press conference yesterday with reporters. He made some news about his position on banning cell phones in the city's public schools, which open up next week. He also talked a bit about his experience at the DNC last week, albeit under very explicit guidance from his counsel, Lisa Zornberg. We'll get to why that was the case.

Of course, he was asked to weigh in on his pick for the city's corporation counsel, Attorney Randy Mastro. That will bring us to the second half of our City Hall segment. While the mayor was meeting with reporters, Mastro was meeting with the council, for 11 hours. That's almost an entire half-day. He was grilled on his past cases and associates. There was also a very interesting surprise witness. My colleague Liz Kim from the WNYC Newsroom is on a well-earned vacation this week, so I'm joined by Dana Rubinstein, Metro reporter for the New York Times. Dana, welcome back to WNYC. Thanks so much for joining me this morning.

Dana Rubinstein: Thanks for having me, Brigid.

Brigid Bergin: Listeners, if you have a question about any of the news from City Hall this week or if you want to weigh in on this question of the cell phone ban in schools, perhaps, give your take on Randy Mastro as the city's corporation counsel, where he would represent not just the mayor, but all of city government, give us a call. The number is 212-433-WNYC, that's 212-433-9692. You can call or text at that number. Okay, Dana, let's start with the conversation about that potential cell phone ban in city schools.

The mayor was asked if the city would join other places like Los Angeles that have implemented the ban. He was also asked what he thought were the pros and cons of that kind of ban. Before I play his full answer, which is pretty long, I'm wondering if you can help set this up. What was the conversation among city officials at this point about a potential cell phone ban in schools? Were we expecting to hear something soon since school starts next week?

Dana Rubinstein: Yes. In June, the schools' chancellor, David Banks, strongly suggested that they would indeed move forward with banning cell phones in schools in this coming school year, which, as you noted, begins very soon. Yesterday, at the mayor's Q&A, he kind of walked that back and sounded a note of real caution and a clear desire to moderate expectations about anything actually happening in the next week or so.

Brigid Bergin: I want to play his full answer. Listeners, this is about 1 minute and 20 seconds, so buckle up. A long answer from the mayor, but something that Dana and I will talk about when we come out of it because he throws a lot of different elements about why this decision is so hard to make.

Mayor Adams: New York is different from LA. We're a unique animal, trust me. [chuckles] If you don't do it right, you won't get it right. The previous administration attempted to do this, and they had to roll back. The chancellor has been extremely thorough. Hats off to him. Our desire is that we should not have any distractions in our schools, and the number one distraction, not only to students but even as I look around the room, some of you are deep into your phones. We are hooked on our phones, and we want to get it right. We want to remove any distraction from our children.

Right now, there are some schools that already have bans, but once you use the conversation or the terminology that it is a full ban coming from the chancellor, there's a lot of things that will kick into play, including UFTs, who pays for the pouches, what mechanisms are being used? We've been doing a lot of reviews. What are the best practices? How could it be done? There will be some action in the upcoming school year, but the extent of a full ban, we're not there yet. We want to make sure we have parents on board. When you talk about the hurdles, a lot of parents are concerned about not being able to be in contact with their children, especially after 9/11.

They notice a distraction. We want to get there with everyone together. A lot of the educators are fully on board with some type of ban. We say this is New York City. Trust me, once you do a decision, one way or another, you're going to have those who are in favor and those who are opposed, and we just got to get it right. I don't want to go backwards after we make the determination.

Brigid Bergin: Whew. Okay, Dana, so long answer; the short version of it being, "No cell phone ban yet," because, as he mentioned, there's issues with parents, the teachers union, the financing. All those issues haven't quite been addressed yet, but he also talked about how previous administrations tried some version of a cell phone ban and failed. I'm wondering, how much of a concern do you think that is for this administration, that they don't want to come out of the gate and then have to truly walk it back, as they saw some other administrations do?

Dana Rubinstein: Right. It seems clear that he is giving this a lot of thought and is very eager to achieve a result that reflects some sort of broad consensus. I think, you know, we're moving into his reelection year. I think he's also probably quite loath to anger some large portion of constituents, parents who-- he doesn't want to anger them in advance of the votes. I think that he's moving slowly and with great caution, with a desire to not anger a lot of people.

Brigid Bergin: It's interesting because we've heard Governor Hochul signal that she's also considering a ban on cell phones at schools. Do you get a sense that the city and the state are talking to each other about this, or is this a situation where we could end up with a ban everywhere across the state, except for the city because of mayoral control and the city hasn't quite gone there yet?

Dana Rubinstein: Yes, that's a good question. I mean, one would hope that they were talking with each other, as New York City is the state's largest school system, and they do have a pretty good relationship, the governor and the mayor, so one would hope that they are coordinating, but it'll be interesting to see what the coming school year holds. I mean, this is such a live issue and one on which passions do run really strong.

Brigid Bergin: I want to shift gears a little bit and talk about some of the other topics that came up at that press conference. Listeners, if you have questions about this cell phone ban or thoughts about the cell phone ban, we're going to come back to that throughout the segment. Switching gears a little bit, Dana, the mayor was in Chicago for part of last week for the Democratic National Convention. I think it's fair to say he kept a pretty low profile going into the event. He was asked about his time there and about how the vice president has not yet sat down for any interviews. Before he gave his real response, he said this first.

Mayor Adams: Before I talk to the DNC question, I'm going to look over to my counsel and say, is this in line with the--

[laughter]

Mayor Adams: [laughs] Okay, because you don't want to get her angry, trust me.

Brigid Bergin: Dana, what's going on there? Why is the mayor consulting with his lawyers before answering questions at this press conference at City Hall?

Dana Rubinstein: Yes, this is a pretty fascinating phenomenon that, if memory serves, first arose at last week's Q&A. His counsel, Lisa Zornberg, has taken the position that during these weekly question and answer sessions, which, I should note, are the only time during the week when the mayor allows questions that are off-topic, that don't deal with the topic of the press conference at hand, he's taking the position, and she's taking the position that you cannot ask questions that are solely political in nature because that would violate city rules, prohibiting the use of city resources for political purposes.

It's an unusual stance and one that has sparked a lot of surprise among reporters and people familiar with conflict of interest rules. There is no formal opinion that the conflict of interest board has given to the city because I, and probably every other reporter in City Hall, has [unintelligible 00:09:32] for one, and they say they do not have one. It is certainly possible that there were informal discussions between [unintelligible 00:09:40] and Lisa Zornberg.

It is an unusual stance to take, given that the Blue Room has been host to just countless questions over the years, from reporters, regarding politics because mayors are politicians and they exist in our political ecosystem. Where else can you ask these questions of them?

Brigid Bergin: Particularly when those questions are only asked once a week. Dana, I want to play the other part of what the mayor went on to say there, specifically regarding his role with the Harris campaign.

Mayor Adams: I love sharing my views to the media, and people have different styles. I believe the campaign has worked out their strategy, and I fall in line with that strategy. I'm just a team player, man, just sitting on the bench. When the coach calls me, I'm going to get in the game. Until then, I'm going to keep this bench warm.

Brigid Bergin: [chuckles] Yes. You have to appreciate that team player attitude there. He's on the bench for the Harris Walz campaign. Any signal that his role may change between now and November?

Dana Rubinstein: I haven't noticed any signal. I'm not sure whether you have. It seems like, for now, he is consigned to the bench. The mayor's been very critical, in recent years, of Harris and of Biden for their migrant policies, given the influx of migrants to New York City and the financial burden that that has imposed on his administration. He's constantly lamenting that financial burden, and he has been sharply critical of the president and of Harris. You can see why they might not want him out there acting as a surrogate in this extremely tight, consequential election.

Brigid Bergin: Listeners, if you're just joining us, I'm Brigid Bergin, filling in for Brian Lehrer today. My guest is New York Times Metro reporter Dana Rubinstein. We're recapping Mayor Adam's once-a-week, daily off-topic press conference. I should clarify. Once-a-week off-topic press conference. We're setting up a conversation for the second half of the segment about an incredibly contentious hearing over at the city council, over the nomination of attorney Randy Mastro as the city's corporation counsel.

Before we shift gears into that, I want to go to the phones. Let's talk to Ben in Peekskill about the proposed cell phone ban, the conversation that is currently happening in the city. Ben, welcome to WNYC.

Ben: Hi. Thanks for taking my call. Yes, I think the chancellor's suggestion is a great idea, and it's obnoxious of the mayor to be trying to walk it back. I have been-- I'm not going to be teaching this year. I'm on a parental leave, but I've been a teacher in city public schools for the DOE and also in charter schools teaching DOE students. I've [unintelligible 00:13:05] high school classrooms where I was responsible for managing cell phones because students were allowed to have them. I've run classrooms in buildings where the school had a policy of holding cell phones during the day. The classroom is immeasurably more functional if kids don't have access to their phones.

All of the purposes of schooling, academic learning and social learning and community experience, are undermined when kids attention is being continuously, addictively grabbed by their cell phones, instead of engaging with the teacher and with their peers.

Brigid Bergin: Ben, can I ask you, what grade do you teach?

Ben: I'm in high school in the city. I've been a special ed teacher, so I go across the grades, but in a high school setting.

Brigid Bergin: Just one quick question. We got a text from a listener who suggested, "Students who follow a voluntary cell phone ban get perks of some kind, a reward system to try and incentivize students to do that." As someone who had to manage those cell phones, can you envision a policy like that being effective?

Ben: I mean, [inaudible 00:14:33] nothing, but I don't think kids are mostly going to go for that. The cell phones let them pass notes in class, undetectably pass-- do like airdrops, audio recordings of, you know, their teachers saying ridiculous things, all kinds of stuff like this. They're not going to go for that. Universality is just so much more efficient and easier than trying to do something case by case.

Brigid Bergin: Ben, thank you.

Ben: You're going to track every student individually every day, whether they gave in their cell phone or not? [crosstalk]

Brigid Bergin: Ben, thanks so much for that call. I appreciate it and your perspective. I hope you enjoy your parental leave, but thank you, and please call us again. Let's go to Monica in Long Island City. Monica, thanks so much for calling.

Monica: Hi, how are you? Yes, I'm a parent of a high school student, and I'm all for a cell phone ban. As a parent, I actually find it very frustrating because, on occasion, I've taken the phone away from my child, except that he sometimes actually has to use his phone in class. Some of his teachers do what are called Ed puzzles, and they have to pull out their phone and do these puzzles on their phone.

Then the other thing is that they need to submit their works through Google Classroom. At the end of class, they need to pull out their phones and take a picture of their worksheet and submit it through Google Classroom. It's difficult for me, as a parent, to take a phone away from my child because he actually does need it in class.

Brigid Bergin: Monica, thank you so much for that call. Dana, clearly, what we just heard there are the complexity of this conversation that the mayor and the chancellor and school administrators are trying to deal with. On the one hand, these phones have really become tools in the lives of so many of us, whether it's to submit work or to do certain assignments. On the other hand, we know that they're a tremendous distraction, one the mayor even called out among the reporters themselves.

Dana Rubinstein: Yes, he's been very consistent on that point. Right. He seems to fully recognize that phones are a distraction and that-- He's constantly talking about the threats that social media poses to young people. I think his mind seems pretty made up on the policy front. It seems like he seems to be grappling with some practical issues. Maybe one of them is this question of phones actually being used in the classroom as part of teaching, which I hadn't realized was a phenomenon, as my child is not yet in high school.

Brigid Bergin: Soon enough. Soon enough.

Dana Rubinstein: [chuckles]

Brigid Bergin: One more text from a listener. "I'm a parent of a public school 11th grader. I wouldn't mind a ban on cell phones. Not that I went to public school myself. We only had a house phone. We were safe in school. Phones don't make kids any safer." Sounds like a parent there who is supportive of a potential ban and pushing back on the idea that phones might be needed to keep kids safe.

I can tell that the cell phone conversation is one that we will likely dedicate an entire segment to in a future show, but, for now, I want to shift gears, Dana, to another topic. At this press conference, related to that other major happening at City Hall yesterday, the mayor was asked several questions about a city counsel hearing that the council held. I think it was 11 hours I saw, a hearing to consider the mayor's pick for corporation counsel, Randy Mastro. Here's a little piece of what the mayor said about him at that press conference.

Mayor Adams: Randy is a great attorney. [chuckles] I don't even know how people can say he's not. Randy's a great attorney. He has represented this city well. He's a great New Yorker. I'm just pleased when you see folks like Governor Patterson and others who are coming out, talking about his record.

Brigid Bergin: Dana, let's talk about the context of this hearing. Mastro's name was floated as potential corporation counsel back in the spring. It wasn't until July until he was formally introduced. Talk about what role the council plays in this process and what role the corporation counsel plays for the city.

Dana Rubinstein: Sure. The corporation counsel is the city's top lawyer. They represent the city in litigation. They also represent the city council, and they represent the sort of independent arms of the city government, so the public advocate, people like that. The council's role is to approve the mayor's pick for corporation counsel. They get to vote that pick up or down. It seems extremely clear, from yesterday's unbelievably long hearing and extremely critical hearing, that they will not be approving Mastro as a corporation counsel for New York City, and they've been telegraphing that for months. The administration's decision to move forward with the hearing and with Mastro is an interesting one.

Brigid Bergin: Your question to the mayor about Mastro was quite pointed. What did you want to know from the mayor about Mastro's appointment?

Dana Rubinstein: I wanted to know how important it was for him to have an aggre-- Mastro is known as very aggressive, pugnacious. He is considered by other people in his field to be a talented litigator. I wanted to know whether, given all of the investigations City Hall is facing and the mayor is facing, whether it was of particular importance, in this period of time, for the mayor to have such an aggressive attorney because the predecessor, Corporation Counsellor Sylvia Hinds-Radix, was thought of as more sort of conservative, legally. Not conservative politically but just less aggressive. He responded that New York City deserves a good lawyer, no matter what is going on with the administration.

Brigid Bergin: We need to take a short break, but when we come back, we're going to hear a little bit more from that very lively council hearing and more with my guest Dana Rubinstein, New York Times Metro reporter. Stick around. We'll be right back after this.

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Brigid Bergin: It's the Brian Lehrer show on WNYC. I'm Brigid Bergin, filling in for Brian today. My guest is Dana Rubenstein, New York Times Metro reporter. We are recapping a very busy day at City Hall. Yesterday, we started with the mayor's press conference, and now I want to shift to the other side of the building. In the council chambers, Attorney Randy Mastro was making his case to council members about why he would be a good pick as the city's corporation counsel. He has been a controversial figure. We started to talk a little bit about that, but, Dana, can you talk a little bit about Mastro's history and how New Yorkers might be more familiar with him?

Dana Rubinstein: Sure. Mastro may have first come to New Yorker's attention during the Giuliani administration. He was a chief of staff and a deputy mayor for operations there. He subsequently has had a long and colorful career as an attorney, representing many sort of, sometimes, controversial clients, including Chris Christie. During Bridgegate, he represented, kind of famously, a group of Upper West Side residents who were trying to relocate homeless men out of the Lucerne hotel, during the pandemic, where they had been sent because it was a healthier, less crowded environment.

He has challenged or represented landlords, challenging aspects of the rent stabilization law. He's had a long and colorful career. He's also has served on the boards of important nonprofits and done other important pro bono work that he emphasized yesterday. I think the council took issue both with his work for Giuliani and also many of the clients that he has chosen to represent in the subsequent years.

Brigid Bergin: Listeners, this is your chance to give your take on Randy Mastro as the city's corporation counsel. We have time for probably just a couple of calls, but what do you think of as Randy Mastro as the city's attorney? The number is 212-433-WNYC, that's 2124-433-9692. When you hear Randy Mastro's name, do you think of someone who's on the board of Citizens Union and playing a vital role in the city's civic sphere, or does it conjure up ideas of the Giuliani administration or Bridgegate? Again, that number, 212-433-WNYC, that's 212-433-9692.

Again, you can call or text at that number. In his testimony, Mastro really emphasized his technical expertise, as you mentioned, Dana, his ability to represent clients, regardless of potentially how unsavory some people might find them. Here's a little bit of what he said to the council.

Randy Mastro: In private practice, I've successfully represented firm clients, sometimes in controversial cases, but that's what litigators do, zealously and ethically advocate for firm clients.

Brigid Bergin: Dana, going back to a little bit of your question at the press conference, how much of the concern from these council members yesterday stems from, as we mentioned, Mastro's previous work and relationships with various groups or an idea that if he were picked, he'd be more focused on potentially defending the mayor in these various investigations that continue?

Dana Rubinstein: You know, it seems to sort of be split amongst those two concerns. Although, at times, I felt like, more than anything, it was just a very lengthy relitigation of the Giuliani administration and incessant questioning of Mastro as to whether he condoned various aspects or actions that Giuliani took during that administration, even if he, perhaps, had very limited control over those actions. It was a pretty fascinating hearing in many ways.

Brigid Bergin: A listener texted, "If Mayor Adams is saying he's a good attorney, and then immediately after, 'A lot of people say he's not,' then why is he surprised that people are critical of him?" Some listeners out there are getting involved in this debate themselves. Dana, more recently, Mastro played a major role defending, as you mentioned, Governor Chris Christie in the Bridgegate scandal. For those who may not remember that exactly, that was the case where Governor Christie's office created some traffic problems in Fort Lee, New Jersey.

Mastro defended the governor's office, issuing a report that essentially pinned the blame on staff of the governor. Bronx Councilmember, Amanda Farias asked a question about it, and she framed it like this.

Amanda Farias: Your report was not a serious piece of legal work, but, instead, political work attempting to clear your principle from wrongdoing. Mr. Mastro, why shouldn't New Yorkers be concerned that you'll do the same in our city and use taxpayer dollars as the guise of legal process to act as a political operative for the mayor?

Randy Mastro: Okay, because that totally mischaracterizes the investigative work and defense of the governor's office. Not the governor personally.

Brigid Bergin: Dana, again, this brings up that issue of whether Mastro is being tapped for this role for his ability to defend the city and all of its city agencies and the council or the mayor or the office of the mayor. Do you think that the distinction that Mastro was trying to make here, that the Bridgegate case was really about defending the office of the governor, was persuasive to any of those council members?

Dana Rubinstein: It seemed to me that the council members had already had meetings with Mastro and considered whether or not that they would support him and came to the hearing already decided, perhaps, so, no, I don't think they were really convinced or necessarily convincible. Yes, I think they have their minds set against Mastro.

Brigid Bergin: In fairness to this potential corporation counsel candidate, he does have some pretty strong supporters in his corner, besides the mayor and his team. Some of those folks were at the hearing yesterday. Can you talk about people who have voiced support for Mastro, and what's the argument they're making?

Dana Rubinstein: Yes, tons of sort of permanent government folks have voiced support for Mastro, from David Patterson to Rudy Washington to former corporation counsels and other administrations, former Giuliani administration officials, just tons of folks, which seems to sort of support the notion that he is well regarded as a legal mind. I think that what those people who have been in and around government for a long time are not addressing is the politics surrounding Eric Adams and the New York City Council and how oppositional they are to each other and how unwilling the council really is to give this one to the mayor, given all of the investigations that he is under and how much acrimony exists between the two sides of City Hall.

Brigid Bergin: As I mentioned, sort of teased before, the hearing featured a surprise witness, Bridget Kelly, a name who may be familiar to some of those who've been listening for a long time and familiar with the Bridgegate scandal. She was convicted for her role in that, sentenced to 13 months in prison, and only managed to avoid it when the Supreme Court overturned her conviction in 2020. She was there to testify, rather emotionally and passionately, against Mastro. Here's a little bit of what she had to say.

Bridget Kelly: Randy Mastro is a conniving and ruthless politician and political operative who happens to be an attorney. When would somebody hire Randy Mastro? Perhaps you hire him when you need to threaten or scare someone or when you need to take someone down for your own political security or when you need a scapegoat to get you out of trouble.

Brigid Bergin: Dana, clearly, Bridget Kelly was emotional at that moment. That testimony came nearly 9 hours into the hearing. How compelling do you think council members found it? What was the sense in the chamber when she was there? Was there really anyone left to persuade at that point?

Dana Rubinstein: There weren't many council members left at that point, or reporters. I wasn't there. I watched that portion online. It was pretty late in the day by that point, but her presence was a surprise, and her testimony was, as you said, emotional and really pretty devastating. Her narrative, if it's to be believed, is that he basically scapegoated her for Bridgegate. She did not really, during her testimony, own any of her own actions, but she did impugn Mastro's reputation and say that he-- that the report that he created at the behest of Chris Christie, that absolved Chris Christie of wrongdoing in Bridgegate, was sexist.

When you look at the report, in this post-#MeToo era, some of it is striking. There's discussion of her emotional state and how she'd recently gone through a breakup, and that may have played a role in her decision to play a part in the lane realignment that was the Bridgegate scandal. Yes, it's hard to imagine that if the council had even been open to considering Mastro before her testimony, that they would still be open after. My colleague, Jeff Mays, caught David Patterson, someone who spoke in support of Mastro's appointment, talking to Bridget Kelly, after her testimony, and saying something like, "I'm glad I went before you and not after because I'm not sure I could have sat down and testified and supported Mastro after."

Brigid Bergin: Wow. That is a scathing assessment of what she had to say. I want to go to Ruth Ann in Manhattan. Ruth Ann, thanks for calling WNYC.

Ruth Ann: Yes. Can you hear me? I have it on speakerphone so I can hear you, or do I take it off speakerphone?

Brigid Bergin: You sound clear as can be. Go ahead, Ruth Ann.

Ruth Ann: Just the person who interviewed me said it was bad. I would not be for Mastro. I'd be for the city council's decision. They represent us New York City people. I'm a native-born New Yorker. I've been in my apartment on West 12th Street for 60 years, and I'm an ex-teacher, a retired teacher. I don't want Mastro because he would do, of course, the mayor's bidding, and the mayor was against us, and so was our two union leaders. UFT, teachers' retirement, they were with the mayor, along with DC 37, another union of municipal workers, to sell us down the river.

They decided that we weren't going to have Medicare anymore. We were going to have Medicare advantage and then Aetna and something, and then they dropped out, and then another secondary dropped out, but people fought it. Now we were promised that for our retirement, our insurance, our health insurance would continue. The city council was terrific. They understand more, the needs of the city, than the mayor does. I'm afraid that Mastro will be doing-- you know, look what he did with Giuliani. I don't like any of his past, and Christie, I mean, that's horrible.

Brigid Bergin: Ruth Ann, thank you. We hear, loud and clear, that if Ruth Ann was a council member, she would not be voting in support of Randy Mastro. Thanks for that call. There's a listener who texted. "This is Julio. I think the argument for more advice and consent is being made of by the hearing to confirm Mastro. The administration and future admins need a clear check to ensure the city gets only the very best." Some policy suggestions there from Julio. Thank you for your text. Thank you for your calls. Dana, before I let you go, let's just talk about where this nomination goes next. The council has to vote on it. When do we anticipate that happening? If, for some reason, it doesn't pass, what happens?

Dana Rubinstein: My understanding is a vote is anticipated in mid-September. Right now, there is an acting corporation counsel, so it's not as though the role is empty. Should the council, as expected, vote Mastro down, then the mayor will have to come up with another nomination, presumably one that is more palatable to the New York City Council.

Brigid Bergin: Well, we're going to have to leave it there for now. My guest has been Dana Rubenstein, Metro reporter for the New York Times. Dana, thank you so much for joining us.

Dana Rubinstein: Thanks for having me.

 

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