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Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning, everyone. On today's show, WNYC's Nancy Solomon with excerpts from her Ask Governor Murphy call-in last night and to take your reactions and other Jersey news questions. She started with the governor trying to woo the Philadelphia Sixers of the NBA across state lines to play in Camden. Have you heard about that? Would it be worth the tax subsidy? Would it be an economic game changer, as the governor argues it would? He used that phrase.

Then at the end of the show today, we'll go into this glorious forecast weather weekend, an end-of-Friday segment with a call-in on what you like to do outdoors in September as compared to July and August. The idea is it's still summer for most of this month, but the weather is really kind of different than the rest of summer. Right? Many people consider September the best weather month of the year. We'll ask what's your favorite weather month as part of that, as well as your September summer activities.

We'll do two more follow-ups today on Tuesday night's debate, looking more closely at specific things that came up, in about an hour, a follow-up on the climate section of the presidential debate. You could be forgiven for asking, "What climate section?" as it came right at the end before the closing arguments and was really short. What's more, the moderator's question was about climate, but candidates' answers turned into an exchange about manufacturing jobs, not protecting the world from potentially catastrophic warming. We'll discuss that. We'll play excerpts.

We'll talk about what they did debate and what they didn't actually debate. That's in about an hour. Right now, we'll talk to Garry Pierre-Pierre from the Haitian Times, and New York State Assemblymember Michaelle Solages from Long Island and take calls from Haitian American listeners about the effects at the community level of Donald Trump's baseless debate slur that immigrants in Springfield, Ohio, and it was about Haitian immigrants there, have stolen people's pets and ate them. You've heard about this. It's not just baseless, it has effects on real people.

We'll talk about it and take your calls about that. Here's that moment. I'm hesitant to even play it again, but we should know what we're talking about. Here's that moment from the debate, including the correction by ABC's David Muir.

Donald Trump: In Springfield, they're eating the dogs. The people that came in, they're eating the cats. They're eating the pets of the people that live there, and this is what's happening in our country. And it's a shame as far as rallies are concerned, as far as the reason they go is they like what I say. They want to bring our country back. They want to make America great again. It's a very simple phrase, make America great again. She's destroying this country, and if she becomes president, this country doesn't have a chance of success. Not only success, we'll end up being Venezuela on steroids.

David Muir: I just want to clarify here. You rigged up Springfield, Ohio, and ABC News did reach out to the city manager there. He told us there had been no credible reports of specific claims of pets being harmed, injured, or abused by individuals within the immigrant community. All of this--

Donald Trump: Well, I've seen people on television.

David Muir: Let me just say here this is a--

Donald Trump: The people on television say, "My dog was taken and used for food." So maybe he said that, and maybe that's a good thing to say for a city manager.

David Muir: I'm not taking this from television. I'm taking it from the city manager--

Donald Trump: But the people on television are saying their dog was eaten by the people that went there.

David Muir: Again, the Springfield city manager says there's no evidence of that.

Brian Lehrer: That from the debate. With us now are two guests, Garry Pierre-Pierre, Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist in 1999, he left the New York Times to launch the Haitian Times, a New York-based English language publication serving the Haitian diaspora, he's also co-founder of the City University Graduate School of Journalism's Center for Community and Ethnic Media and a senior producer at CUNY TV, and New York State Assemblymember Michaelle Solages, a fifth-term legislator, started in 2012 and lifelong resident of Elmont.

She represents all the parts of the Nassau County communities of Elmont; Valley Stream, Floral Park, Bellerose, North Woodmere, Stewart Manor, and Franklin Square. She is the first person of Haitian descent to be elected into the New York State Legislature, and she currently serves as the Assembly deputy majority leader and chair of the New York State Black, Puerto Rican, Hispanic & Asian Legislative Caucus. Garry, welcome back. Assemblymember, welcome to WNYC.

Garry Pierre-Pierre: Thank you, Brian, for having me.

Assemblymember Michaelle Solages: Thank you for having us.

Brian Lehrer: Let's first talk about where this came from. The Wall Street Journal did an article this week on what their headline calls the origin of Trump's false claim that immigrants are eating pets. I'll point out, first of all, that even Rupert Murdoch's Wall Street Journal puts false claim in their headline. That's the first thing to say. The article explains the claim is the latest in a series of exaggerations or moments that, when challenged with facts, Trump or his top lieutenants refuse to abandon. Local police attributed the rumors to a Facebook post that cited the poster's "neighbor's daughter's friend." Neighbor's daughter's friend.

The original poster didn't cite firsthand knowledge of an incident, Springfield police said Monday. The post claimed that a pet cat had been found hanging from a branch at a Haitian neighbor's home after being carved up to be eaten. Whether the neighbor exists, and the status of any such neighbor's citizenship is unknown. All of that from the Wall Street Journal. Garry, anything to add from your reporting or other knowledge about how this even got started?

Garry Pierre-Pierre: Well, Brian, this is basically a racist trope that right-wing extremists have used to dehumanize immigrants, Black people, and people of color writ large. It's unfortunate listening to the exchange with the former president. It was kind of sad to think that this is the person who we are thinking about electing as president. That's all I can say. I think Vice President Harris's laugh summarized it all. There's no need to debate or discuss this. This is just low, the lowest that we've gotten. Enough already, to be quite honest.

Brian Lehrer: Assemblymember, the first line of that section in the Wall Street Journal article says the important part, and Garry was kind of going to that, "The claim is the latest in a series of exaggerations or moments that, when challenged with facts, Trump or his top lieutenants refuse to abandon." From Rupert Murdoch's Wall Street Journal. Like Garry says, it goes to the question of basic fitness to be president, if that's how he's going to mess with the truth and then stick to what's been debunked for his own potential benefit.

Do you see him doing that repeatedly like the journal asserts, when it comes to immigration in general or Haitians in particular?

Michaelle Solages: We see that their campaign is built on misinformation and disinformation, and this is a continual thought and belief in this Republican Party. Remember when Trump was president, in a closed-door meeting, he used disparaging words against Haiti, and so for him to come and take another instance of disinformation and keep spewing it-- His top lieutenant, JD Vance, also said after in the spin room that these Haitians are also spreading AIDS, which is another trope against the Haitian community.

You could tell that these people do not care about bringing America forward. They just want to divide, separate, and energize their base so that they could win and create America that doesn't define us. I'm just simply disgusted. We need to make sure that we dispel this misinformation.

Brian Lehrer: This is how sketchy the sourcing was on the original claim. The journal article says, "Local police attributed the rumors to a Facebook post that cited the poster's neighbor's daughter's friend. The original poster didn't cite firsthand knowledge of an incident, Springfield police said Monday." Based on that, which you or I, Garry, as journalists, would be required by our editors to go and confirm, is the basis for Trump and JD Vance, and from what I've read attributed to you, Assemblymember, New York Congressmember Marc Molinaro, a Republican from the Hudson Valley, who's running for reelection, to trumpet it to the world over and over again as a reason to vote for them.

Based on that, what's the Marc Molinaro angle here or any other local politician?

Michaelle Solages: They're just listening to their leadership. They don't have any independent thoughts. They don't care about policy. They want to just keep spreading this misinformation. It's sad that we have a member of Congress who can't even think for himself and can't even just look up and research but instead just wants to sit on social media and retweet this disinformation. It's sad. It's sad, this Republican Party, what they're doing.

Brian Lehrer: Garry, when Trump said he saw it on television, the journal puts it to a Facebook post. Did someone say on television? Even on television, that's not a source, right? That's the basis for a major claim in a debate watched by 67 million people? "Oh, I saw somebody say something on television." We know that's where Trump gets a lot of his information. He spent a lot of time during January 6th watching television, we all know, but is even that a thing?

Garry Pierre-Pierre: Well, it is not a thing, Brian. Let me step back a little bit to tell your listeners a little bit about Springfield, Ohio, and how we come to this moment. Springfield, Ohio, like many Midwestern cities, was going through some challenges economically and so on and so forth. The city leaders, the employers, welcomed the Haitians to come to Springfield because they had jobs. Between 10,000 to 15,000 Haitians moved there in the last five years.

Things were going okay as far as the city leaders were concerned until there was this murderer of a Haitian man, and we at the Haitian Times started looking at what was going on in Springfield. We did our first story about a year and a half ago about when the man who was tried was convicted for the murder. This weekend, tomorrow, we go into Springfield to hold a town hall meeting to get to the bottom of the story, not only from a journalistic point of view, but also from an audience, from an engagement, what's going on, what can we do to help because it's one thing to talk about all these problems, but also what can we do as a media outlet?

Brian Lehrer: A good thing for the Haitian Times to do. Assemblymember, I know we only have you for a few more minutes. Many listeners not from your part of Nassau County may not think of it as a place with much of a Haitian population. You might have been elected even without one, of course, but is there much of a Haitian population in Southwest Nassau County there?

Michaelle Solages: Oh, yes. There's a huge Haitian population within Elmont and Valley Stream, and that's why I was elected as the first person of Haitian descent in the state legislature because that community has gained economic power, they've gained social power, and they grasp the political power to elect a member of their own. As you see, Haitians are hardworking people. They believe in making sure that they strive for the American dream. They live in middle-class homes. Many of them are doctors, lawyers, engineers.

Not only that part of Southwest Nassau has Haitian Americans, but all throughout Long Island, there are many communities of Haitian Americans, such as Baldwin, Freeport, Wyandanch, Wheatley Heights. We all stand in solidarity to show that as Haitian Americans, we believe in a country that provides opportunity for all, and so when we see this disgusting language, it's upsetting and it's hurtful, and it's also dangerous.

Already, we've seen bomb threats in Springfield, Ohio. We've seen incidents of hate attacks against individuals. Even myself, I received two phone calls to my governmental office with very hateful language saying that this incident, it happened, and that we are just bad people. A lot of tropes. At the end of the day, this is just hateful language that continually demonizes the Haitian community, especially during a sensitive time, especially what's going on in our home country of Haiti.

Brian Lehrer: We're going to open the phones for Haitian American listeners here in just a minute. Before you go, Assemblymember, would you expand on what you were just saying? Because I think it's really important to remember that these kinds of things don't exist in a rhetorical vacuum like it happens on TV in the debate, and it's just in that frame.

Remember when Trump was president and he was calling COVID the China virus and then there were all these attacks on and hate speech directed at Chinese Americans? What are you seeing that's like that? You just gave us one or two examples. Or more generally, are people in the community feeling vulnerable to anything like that after this?

Michaelle Solages: It's the fear. We haven't yet heard of direct attacks in Elmont, aside from verbal and social media attacks, but we are fearful because people take this information as fact and they might retaliate against us. They might make verbal claims against us. It's harmful and it's creating a culture of fear that no one in this country and in the state should live with.

Brian Lehrer: We're going to broaden the discussion in a minute with Garry Pierre-Pierre from the Haitian Times, and not just talk about this slur. There are other adjacent issues that are really important and really interesting to talk about. We're going to open up the phones, with Haitian American listeners from Elmont or anywhere else getting first priority. Assemblymember Michaelle Solages, who represents Elmont and around there, Valley Stream, et cetera, in Southwest Nassau County, thank you for giving us a few minutes today.

Michaelle Solages: Thank you.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, first priority on the phones is to any Haitians or Haitian Americans listening right now. How are you processing Trump's false claim about eating pets? Does it affect you emotionally or otherwise personally, not just politically? 212-433-WNYC. Or say anything else you want about recent Haitian migration to the New York, New Jersey area, or anywhere else in the United States. Why now? Why here? As we broaden the conversation, what would you like to see done at the policy level to support the community or reduce the need for emigration from Haiti?

Most people from anywhere don't want to have to leave their home countries unless things are so bad for them there. Right? Haitian listeners, Haitian Americans, Trump had the floor before 67 million people to wantonly utter his false slur. Now, you can have the floor yourself, at least for our little community of Brian Lehrer Show listeners. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692, as we continue in a minute.

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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC, as we continue with Garry Pierre-Pierre, publisher of the Haitian Times, as we look at Trump's baseless slur about Haitian immigrants eating residents' pets in broader context. Before we even put some of the Haitian American listeners calling in with their personal experiences and feelings on the line, a couple of callers and texters, Garry, who are pointing out that the threat from this is expanding even after Trump was so thoroughly debunked at the debate by Rupert Murdoch's Wall Street Journal and elsewhere.

Listener writes, and I think the Assemblymember referred to this, "Several schools, offices, and City Hall in Springfield, Ohio closed yesterday because of bomb threats over Haitian immigration stories." Of course, it was the city manager, who ABC News got the official debunking from, saying there were no credible stories like that. Listener writes, "What a sad place we are in." Ron in Hartsdale, New York, noticing what's happening in the swing state of Arizona. Ron, you're on WNYC. Thank you for calling in.

Ron: Hi there, and thank you for taking my call. The Washington Post had an article yesterday on a billboard, actually 11 or more billboards, that appeared in Phoenix on Tuesday. It's based on a Chick-fil-A ad, and it says, "Eat less kittens. Vote Republican."

Brian Lehrer: Wow.

Ron: It has cute little kittens dressed up in cow costumes. I can't believe it.

Brian Lehrer: Ron, thank you for that. Somebody else is writing in saying, "Important to note that Republicans are using Trump's bizarre claim and running with it. It's a huge joke to them." Garry, anything on those couple of texts and that caller?

Garry Pierre-Pierre: Well, yes. We keep saying that these things, they have been debunked, but who's listening to the Wall Street Journal? Who's reading the Washington Post? It's not these people in Springfield, Ohio, who started the thing in the first place. This is what they wanted to hear from Trump. This is red meat, no pun intended, that Trump was feeding his supporters because this is the kind of thing that they want Trump to do, demonize the other people. No matter if they are hardworking Haitians or if they are hardworking Latinos, whoever they are, if they are "the other" then they must be attacked. This is very serious.

Even with our event tomorrow, the police are telling us they're going to provide us with police security because the tensions are still very, very high in Springfield. People have told us that they are afraid to go out, they are afraid to send their children to school because they are a target. The population in Springfield is roughly 60,000 and Haitians make about 30% of that, and so they stick out and they are vulnerable and they are in fear.

Brian Lehrer: Sheila in Montclair, you're on WNYC. Hello, Sheila.

Sheila: Hello. Bonjour, Garry.

Garry Pierre-Pierre: Bonjour.

Sheila: For me, as a Haitian person living in Montclair, I can't believe how that has affected me. It reminds me of I called before about that, when I was in Montreal, and the HIV news came out. Yesterday, oh, my gosh, I can't believe I'm tearing, when I heard the-- He had a speech. I don't remember where he was, but he tripled down on what he said, and I knew the fear of the people living in Springfield. These people went through so much already in Haiti, leaving Haiti, and to know what they're going through now, it's really painful.

A friend of mine posted something on Facebook, and I felt so hurt. She was being sarcastic, and I took it literally. This is the type of division that he's creating between people and the fear.

Brian Lehrer: Because it was hard to tell whether that person was mocking Trump or being serious?

Sheila: Yes. My kids and I were texting, we're in a text group, we were texting and saying, "Oh my gosh, can you believe this? Can you believe that?" It's not a joke. I ran outside yesterday while Trump was making his speech. My husband was outside and I was saying, "Can you believe this? This is crazy. This is dangerous." My husband said it's going to get worse because he's like a dog caught in a corner and he's going to bite anyone. We are the lower-hanging fruit, and he was going to attack us, but as Haitians-- I wore my t-shirt saying, "Haiti," with pride. We are resilient and strong. He's not going to get to us as much as he thinks he will.

Brian Lehrer: I'm so glad you called in, Sheila, and that people-

Sheila: Thank you.

Brian Lehrer: -got to hear your voice and your emotion. Thank you, Sheila.

Garry Pierre-Pierre: Brian?

Brian Lehrer: Garry?

Garry Pierre-Pierre: I'd like to expand a little bit on when Sheila talked about the AIDS because I think it's important for people to understand the context of that situation. Back in the '80s, the CDC had categorized Haitians as one of the risk factors for HIV/AIDS, and they barred Haitians from donating blood. This was really a rallying cry for Haitians in America.

This is a moment where we really showed out, if you will, where there was a big protest that closed the Brooklyn Bridge and snarled traffic in Lower Manhattan, where I would say it's one of the reasons why the New York Times hired me because they realized that there was a huge community going and they had no clue as to what was going on. Haitians have been through this before with Trump and before.

As Sheila said, we're going to have to keep fighting. We're fighters. That's what we are. Since the beginning of the republic, we've been fighting. As we're trying to make a better life in America and elsewhere, if we have to fight, we'll fight. We'll fight with results to show that, "Hey, we are hardworking and we honor American values, as well as our Haitian values," and that people will see that moving forward.

Places like Brooklyn, Miami, have been changed because of Haitians, and now we're seeing that happening in the Midwest. Indianapolis, Indiana, where I moved to two years ago, has an influx of about 40,000 Haitians living there. You have Haitians in Columbus, Ohio, and Houston, Texas. We are moving out. We are really settling in places that people didn't expect us to be, and so, therefore, this is what's happening in Springfield, Ohio.

Brian Lehrer: I think Ronald in Crown Heights is calling to make a similar point, and we're going to let him give that a shot. Ronald, you're on WNYC. Hi.

Ronald: Good morning. Thank you for taking my call. Brian, you are a treasure to the community, and Garry as well. I'd like to say that Trump is appealing to some races in order to get votes and some Republican as well as [unintelligible 00:25:18] events. What we fail to realize is that there are thousands and thousands of Haitians in the swing states of North Carolina, Pennsylvania, and Georgia, and that they can make a huge difference and send the Republican and Kamala Harris to the White House. That's what I wanted to say. Thank you.

Brian Lehrer: Ronald, thank you very much. Also, we had the Assemblymember from Long Island on earlier, who's Haitian American, and also as Ronald and as you, Garry, point to the swing states, how about the swing congressional district of Suffolk County? Jonas in Bay Shore is calling us from there. Jonas, you're on WNYC. Hello.

Jonas: Good morning. Thank you for taking my call. What I want to say is that Haiti gained its independence in 1804, a few years after America got its independence. Now, how has Haiti get to where Haiti is almost 220 years later? How? Now, let me also remind your listeners that in 1915, if I remember it correctly, Haiti was invaded by the US, and then prior to that invasion, what I heard is that our reserve was taken to a bank in New York. What happened to that cash? What happened to that money?

Most of the policy that's driving Haiti to where Haiti is today is being made here in the US. What other choice does we as Haitians we have but take the boat and come here to the US however we can come to the US? We are going to come to the US until the US is able to understand that Haiti is where Haiti is, it's possibly because of some policies that are being made for Haiti here in the US. Then until American people--

I don't really care much about what Trump is saying, but to some level, he's providing an opportunity for those who cares about Haiti to think, "Why is Haiti where Haiti is today? Why?" Ask the question why. Is it because Haiti is as poor as they say we are? No. Haiti is a very rich country. The unfortunate thing is, the international community, the US personally, Canada, friends in England, they claim that Haiti belonged to them.

We have all kind of natural resources that could have developed the country. Yet, I have personal experience where Haitians here in America are trying to do things in Haiti but yet the State Department say no. Every single one of your listeners who really care about Haiti, I invite them to dig deeper to find out why Haiti is where Haiti is today.

Brian Lehrer: Jonas, thank you very much for your call. Garry Pierre-Pierre, publisher of the Haitian Times, you and I have talked about this many times on this show, the contribution, if that's the right word, of the United States, to the ongoing difficult conditions in Haiti for people who live there as the poorest country in the western hemisphere and one of the most politically unstable over and over again. It's complicated, right?

The US sometimes intervenes, like maybe during the Clinton years, with the intent of helping to make things better in Haiti, but they don't do it very well. It certainly wouldn't be in the United States's interest if they don't want a lot of immigrants to create conditions in Haiti that create a flow or even a flood of immigrants to the United States. How do you enter what Jonas from Bay Shore was talking about?

Garry Pierre-Pierre: Well, he makes a very good point. Two years ago, the New York Times did an epic investigative piece, which answered a lot of the questions that the caller was raising. Yes, it's the United States, it's France. The bank that he's referring to is now Citibank, that took the gold from Haiti. That's part of history. We need to understand that history, but we have to move to the present. Now we have local elected officials. We had Representative Solages and many others.

We used to march quite a bit in the '80s and the '90s, and we stopped, but now, we haven't come up with another strategy. How do we respond as a community to attacks like that? I think we've been caught off guard as a community. They keep coming, and they will keep on coming because as more and more of us leave the little oasis of the blue states of New York and Massachusetts and spread out to places, I don't want to discuss any state but you know where, because we are not moving to New York as much anymore because it's too expensive.

Now, I urge, I implore the community leaders to really come up with a strategy to empower the community. A lot of people who are coming, Brian, they've never lived in a city. They came from the rural areas. They've never driven a car. They don't know basic civics education. These are the things that need to be addressed and how to get a better, harmonious community.

Brian Lehrer: Can you talk generally about recent Haitian immigration to this country or to the New York area? How much have people from Haiti been part of the wave of asylum seekers and part of the large group of people coming in in the last two years or so? We hear more about people from Venezuela and Central America, but Haiti too in some meaningful numbers. Yes?

Garry Pierre-Pierre: Yes, absolutely. Again, we are really changing the demographics of the Midwest, places that you would not believe. Think about this. If three years ago somebody told you there were all these Haitians living in Springfield, Ohio, you would have done a double take like, "Really? Why?" Well, this is the reason why we're moving to these other places. New York and South Florida were the top two destinations for Haitian migrants. These places have become extremely expensive, pushed out by gentrification.

Now, you have a perfect situation in the Midwest where they have jobs and cost of living is relatively low, so people are going there. They no longer need to feel comfortable to be around New York and Brooklyn and other places. Now Indianapolis is fine. Columbus, Ohio is fine for people. They're making lives there. I don't know what the numbers are exactly, but we did a graph a couple months ago or so, showing migration patterns of Haitians.

The Haitian Times, I'm not plugging the Haitian Times, but we just finished a ten-city listening tour of where Haitians live; Houston, Chicago, Atlanta, the Carolinas. One of the callers mentioned that, yes, there's a large community in the Carolinas, so New York is no longer the epicenter of the Haitian life in America. It's diversifying quite a bit, and I am almost certain that we will be hearing about similar conflict in other locales around the country because of the influx of the Haitians. You bring together a large group of Black people, it's going to get attention, and sometimes it's going to be negative.

Brian Lehrer: Not only the states that you mentioned, but here's Adolf calling from Albuquerque, New Mexico. Adolf, you're on WNYC. Hello.

Adolf: Good morning. Well, I'm a retired photojournalist living here in Albuquerque. I've been here for 34 years. For the last year and a half, I've been going down to El Paso to interview and photograph the migrants after they cross the border, and it's really amazing to see a group of people who have left Brazil, went to 14 countries to make it up here. Their stories are so compelling, the stories that you hear about going to the Darién Gap.

It's just that those stories need to be told because these people come up here and the community in El Paso also, especially a pastor by the name of Pastor Jeudy, who's been doing an amazing job hosting all those migrants at his house, providing them a way to feed themselves.

Brian Lehrer: That's in El Paso?

Adolf: In El Paso, Texas, yes. We're talking about-- It's four hours from Albuquerque. I've been going down there to do those interviews, and you will never find a more resilient group of people than those Haitian migrants.

Brian Lehrer: Let me ask you this, Adolf, since you're interviewing a lot of people as they come across, are many or most seeking political asylum? That's what we see in New York. The asylum seekers are coming. If so, what's the basis of the common asylum claim?

Adolf: Well, what you have to understand, there are two different group of people. The ones that are coming from South America and the one that are coming from Haiti.

Brian Lehrer: Yes, I'm talking about the Haitians for now.

Adolf: The groups that are coming from Haiti, they go through Nicaragua and make their way to the border. The groups that are leaving Brazil go to 14 countries and make it to El Paso, make it to Ciudad Juárez, which is right across from El Paso. They get permission to cross because they have their CBP visa that they're able to get, and they come over. The problem that you have is that a lot of those migrants, back in 2017, when they crossed over, they were living on the streets in El Paso.

The pastor down there, the Haitian American pastor, has been able to change that by hosting all those migrants at his house. When they cross the border now-- Now, they're just trickling in because of the new policies now.

Brian Lehrer: Right. The Biden--

Adolf: But when they are coming in now--

Brian Lehrer: They're closing--

Adolf: Yes, the crackdown. The border is not closed. They're still able to cross, but very limited numbers are coming now. Then also, you have the law in Texas also that is affecting them, the law that just passed in Texas regarding authorities in Texas can pull someone over and check their status and deport them. You have a lot issues--

Brian Lehrer: Right. Local police having the power of the federal immigration enforcement agencies. Adolf, thank you very much. Call us again. I really appreciated your call. Last year, Garry, President Biden enacted what's called the Humanitarian Parole Program for Cubans, Haitians, Nicaraguans, and Venezuelans, as you, of course, know, some of our listeners do as well. The Humanitarian Parole Program for Cubans, Haitians, Nicaraguans, and Venezuelans. Parole Program makes it sound like they committed a crime and they're being let out on parole, but it's not that. What is it, really?

Garry Pierre-Pierre: What it is is that people from these countries get special privilege to come to the US. Basically, that's it. It's a lottery system--

Brian Lehrer: In certain limited numbers, right?

Garry Pierre-Pierre: Yes. It's a lottery system, and there's no rhyme or reason as to who is allowed to come here. There's also the TPS that the caller mentioned. It's a Temporary Protected Status. In some ways, right now, the Haitian migrants who are coming here, most of them have a way to get the legal doc papers here to work. You see, again, I'm referring back to where we're talking here today, Springfield, Ohio. Most of these people, they are not "illegal." They are documented either through this parole, what we Haitians call the Biden program, or they have TPS.

TPS is Temporary Protected Status that because of the situation in Haiti, then they cannot be deported back to Haiti. They are given working papers and doing fine, and so [crosstalk].

Brian Lehrer: One more call. Oh, go ahead. You want to finish the thought? Go ahead.

Garry Pierre-Pierre: No, I was saying that there are some people, obviously, who are undocumented, but now more and more, that's becoming a minority.

Brian Lehrer: George in Hempstead, you're on WNYC. Last caller. Hi, George.

George: Hi. Thank you for taking my call. I want to bring another aspect of the situation that is not being spoken about. Briefly, during the 2020 election, a group of Haitians in Florida invited Trump to give him his support, hoping that once elected president, he would support the Haitian immigrants, he would support Haiti. What happened is that according to the Pew Research Center, the Haitians in Florida were to help Trump get the electoral votes of Florida and be named President of the United States. Once he became president, he trashed Haiti. He trashed the Haitians.

Now, what is happening during this election in Florida and around the United States, there is a significant large group of Haitians who are still supporting Trump. There is a minister in Florida who has a megachurch where he is asking his constituents to vote for Trump for this election, in spite of the ways in which Trump has been treating the Haitians.

Brian Lehrer: George, I'm going to leave it there because we're running out of time in the segment. Garry, for you as a journalist, anything on that? Is there a significant Haitian evangelical community in Florida that helped elect Trump in 2016 as George asserts or that's active today and maybe not even moved by the eating-your-pet slur?

Garry Pierre-Pierre: Absolutely. He's right on point on that. The evangelical Haitians are all in with Trump and non-evangelicals as well. I know of many groups, Haitians for Trump. I'd like to pick up on something that the caller said when Trump was in Florida and those are his quote, "I will be your biggest defender." This is what Trump told the Haitians in Little Haiti, Miami when he asked for their vote, and he did get a lot of votes. I think he will get a lot of Haitian votes, unfortunately. That's a fact.

Brian Lehrer: From your perspective.

Garry Pierre-Pierre: Yes.

Brian Lehrer: All right. That's going to be the last word from Garry Pierre-Pierre, publisher of the Haitian Times, which he founded 25 years ago now after leaving the New York Times to start this newspaper and website for the Haitian diaspora. Garry, just tell people how they can see the Haitian Times if they want to see your and your colleagues' work.

Garry Pierre-Pierre: Haitiantimes.com. Thank you for the plug, Brian. I appreciate it.

Brian Lehrer: That's easy to remember. Garry, thank you very much.

Garry Pierre-Pierre: Take care.

 

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