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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Next on this all call in show today. Let me try something that I don't know if it'll work. It depends who's out there right at this moment. What's a big thing you've changed your mind on during your lifetime if you're 80 years old or above? Then we'll ask the same question for people 40 years old or below. We'll just take a few calls in each category so we can get to some of both your 80s or above. If you're in your 80s or above, you go first. Can you name one thing that you've changed your mind on during your lifetime? 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. It can be something political for sure.

Did you used to be more with one political party, but now you're more with the other? Did you vote against Trump in 2016 or 2020 but vote for him this year? It could be that specific. In New York City alone, Trump got 90,000 more votes than he did when he ran against Biden. It could be the other way around, too. First, you voted for Trump or any Republican in the past, but now he or that party has alienated you. 212-433-9692, or since this is for people 80 and older, maybe you changed your mind on FDR or JFK or Nixon or Reagan or whomever.

Maybe, as many people do, you became more conservative as you got older, or maybe as some people do, you relaxed as you got older and became more open minded as you see it and re-examine the positions you were brought up with, or held as a young person and became more politically liberal or progressive. 212-433-9692, or maybe it's more philosophical, doesn't have to be about politics. Did you change your mind on the meaning of life, or how you like to spend your time, or whether you would have had kids if you had to do it all over again? I know an older woman who was in a lunch with some other women friends, all moms, their kids were all grown, and they were kicking around that question.

This woman said she would not have kids if she had it to do over again. Too much constant aggravation, too little reward. Then somehow this story goes the way I understand it, her adult children found out about that, and she quickly reversed her position, at least for their consumption. The way I understand it, she seemed to actually change her mind again and say she would have kids again if given the chance at a do over. That's it. Double change your mind story. Listeners 80 and older, you can weigh in on that one for yourself if you like. Would you have kids again if you could live your life over again from the start?

Those are just some examples, personal and political. Your change of mind can be about anything. What is one thing you've ever changed your mind about as we are in this reflective late December time of year, if you're 80 or above? 80 or above, and we'll ask the same question of people 40 or below after that, but we'll take a few 80 plusers. You'll be up first after we come back from a break on anything you've ever changed your mind about. 212-433-WNYC. We'll take your calls right after this.

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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Now to your calls, if you're 80 years old or older on things you've changed your mind about at any point in your lifetime. Gus on the Upper west side, you're on WNYC. Hi, Gus.

Gus: Hello, Brian. Great, great show. Love you. I'm going to be 83 soon. I grew up with a father who was a maniac environmentalist and very politically active. I've decided not to be depressed about the world anymore. I used to be depressed as a youth and as a young man and as a political activist and did all the marches and carried lots of signs. Now, I'm old, and I'm going to die pretty soon, and I just don't want to waste my time being unhappy all the time.

Brian Lehrer: Did your politics change or just your relationship to your politics?

Gus: My politics have not changed. I'm a humanist. I'm extremely liberal. I guess I'm a socialist. I admire a lot of things about the Scandinavian countries. I remember in the '50s when rich people paid 90% in taxes and things like that. I'm too old to be depressed about it anymore because there's not a hell of a lot I can do. I'm too tired to march. I'm too frail to be out in the cold carrying signs. I just do what I can in my neighborhood and in my building. I don't want to be upset about the destruction of the planet. I'm upset enough as it is. I'm just not going to be unhappy and depressed.

Brian Lehrer: Gus, thank you very much for starting us off. Marge in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. Hi, Marge.

Marge: Good morning.

Brian Lehrer: Good morning.

Marge: Yes, I'm calling about my own political party change. My mother grew up in a small Iowa town that was all retired farmers and Republicans. She was a Republican, and so I was a Republican, even though we lived in Chicago. Then came Watergate and of the break in, and I thought I can't support that party. I changed my registration. The funny part of the story is that somebody on Nixon's campaign called just to ask rhetorically if I was going to vote for him. I said no. They said, "Why not?" I said, "Because I just went across the street to the school and changed my registration."

That lady burst out laughing and laughed until she hung up. I think she was getting a lot of answers like that. The other half of the story is that I always went out to Nebraska to visit my mother for a week in the summer, and I told her what I'd done. She went down to wherever it was and changed her registration. I was younger than she was, but she was probably in her 80s at that time and changed from Republican to Democrat.

Brian Lehrer: Has your change persisted for the rest of your life in terms of what party you vote for for president?

Marge: Oh, sure. I'm an activist. I heard the last of your previous caller, and I still go-- I'm an artist. I paint signs. I go out, and I march for Earth Day. I marched for four hours and was surprised that I could do that. I am still at it.

[00:07:43] Speaker A: Marge, thank you so much for your call. Happy holidays to you. All right, here's one less on the political, more on the personal side, I think. Susan in Great Neck, you're on WNYC. Hi, Susan.

Susan: Hi, Brian. Here's the story. I was widowed when I was 35, and I had a few kids. I was a single mother for many, many years. Finally, I met a lovely man who I was crazy about, but he was too old. I said he was 15 years older than I was. I was going to just forget it, but I changed my mind. I married him, and it was a very wise move, I assure you. Of course, he's gone now because I'm 91, and he was 15 years older.

Brian Lehrer: You changed your mind about dating older men, and then you changed your mind back and married the older man you were dating.

Susan: Yes. [laughs] You got it. That's life.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Elizabeth in Larchmont, you're on WNYC. Hi, Elizabeth.

Elizabeth: Hi. Hello.

Brian Lehrer: Hello.

Elizabeth: Can you hear me?

Brian Lehrer: I can hear you. Happy holidays.

Elizabeth: Thank you. I changed my mind about retiring. I'm a physician. I come from a family of physicians. My father, grandfather, sister, husband, cousins, all physicians. I was a dermatologist, and I loved it. Then one day the patient's telling me their problems because that's what they do. I said in my mind, "And I should care about this? Why?" Time to retire. I changed my mind, and I retired.

Brian Lehrer: Do you have any regrets about that?

Elizabeth: I don't have any regrets. People say, "Well, do you miss it?" I do miss it. I miss the people, but I don't miss the responsibility because after I retired, I felt like a big burden was lifted off my shoulders. I miss it because of the people and the interaction with them, but I think it was the right thing to do.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you, Elizabeth. Thank you for your call. Thanks to those of you 80 years old or older with a little sampling of things you've changed your mind about over time. That was for our 80 plus callers. Now, the same question for anyone 40 or under. Obviously, we're trying to create that contrast here. We'll do another one on another day for people in the category. I realize we're leaving out 40 years of you from 40 to 80 on this particular call in. If you are 40 years old or younger, can you name one thing that you've changed your mind on during your lifetime?

212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. For you, too, it can be something political or something more personal, for sure. Did you used to be with one political party more, but now you're with the other? There was a shift toward Donald Trump and younger demographics in this election more than older ones. Like we've noted here a number of times, it wasn't overwhelming and shouldn't be exaggerated. This election was razor thin close. If Harris had gotten two more points in three Midwest swing states, she would be the president elect today. Still, there was a bit of a shift toward Trump in younger age voters.

Maybe that's your change, or maybe you went the other way or like with the older callers, doesn't have to be political. Maybe it's more philosophical. Did you change your mind on the meaning of life? Seem like our first 83 year old caller did there a little bit or about how you like to spend your time. 212-433-WNYC, if you're 40 or less. 212-433-9692. I put out that question for the older callers if they'd have kids again if they had to do it all over again, for you, I'll ask have you been undecided about wanting to have kids in the first place? If you don't have any to date, or as you've heard your body clock ticking, or just have been anticipating how old you might be, male or female, when they're in high school?

If you wait much longer to decide, or maybe you went from affirm, yes, you want to have kids when you were 20, but now you're 30, and you're thinking, "Well, maybe not. I see myself more as a J.D. Vance cat lady or cat gentleman." Thank you very much. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. It doesn't have to be about kids. You get that. I'm just using that as an example of something you might be in the process of changing your mind about. If you're 40 or under, maybe if you're 40 years old or less, you're probably what they call a digital native. You grew up with the Internet, unlike older people who had to adjust to it becoming a real presence in our lives.

Even as a digital native, have you changed your mind on something having to do with your digital life or change your relationship to your digital life? Did you swear off Instagram because too much body shaming, or say you'd never use an online dating app, but now you do, and you're glad, and you met your life partner or whatever it is? 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. Any one thing you've changed your mind about if you're age 40 or under. Let's start with Daniel in Brooklyn. You're on WNYC. Hi, Daniel.

Daniel: Hey, Brian. First time, long time. I had a big change the last couple years. I worked in advertising as a creative for the last 10 years, and it was very unfulfilling, very shallow. Now, I'm going to school for nursing starting in January.

Brian Lehrer: Why nursing?

Daniel: I was a volunteer EMT for a bit after college in Montana, and I had this whole quarter midlife crisis. I was like, well, if I was going to do something for the rest of my life, what would I do? The last time I felt fulfilled was when I was making scared people laugh in the back of an ambulance. I figured, well, it's a little too pricey to live off EMT or paramedic salary right now in New York. I still get the adrenaline rush in the in the hands on clinical experience as a nurse with a little bit more walking around money.

Brian Lehrer: Sounds great, Daniel. Sounds like people would be lucky to have you to be in your care. Jen in Westchester, you're on WNYC. Hi, Jen.

Jen: Hi. I'm calling because growing up, I never ever wanted biological children. I only wanted to adopt. Now, I'm 32, and I'm kind of coming around on the idea of biological children. Not right now, but I'm coming around on it. I have to say, of my 10 girlfriends all of my age, only one has had a child and is continuing to have children while everyone else is either on the fence or no.

Brian Lehrer: We're going to be doing one of our Hundred Years of 100 Things segment, probably the first one of 2025 on changing birth rates in the United States over the last hundred years. Certainly, it would have been much rarer decades ago to find somebody who said what you just said, that most of your friends who are 32 haven't had kids yet. What's your biggest pull toward and biggest pull away?

Jen: My biggest pull toward, I guess it's lame to say, but I feel like it's biological clock related. My pull against has always been climate change and the state of the world. I just had a friend who had her tube tied, and she's 32. I feel a lot of my friends are also pulling away because of climate change and the state of the world and despair.

Brian Lehrer: Jen, thank you very much. This is WNYC FM HD and AM, New York, WNJT-FM 88.1 Trenton, WNJP 88.5 Sussex, WNJY 89.3 Netcong and WNJO 90.3 Toms River. We are New York and New Jersey Public Radio and live streaming @wnyc.org and all calls edition of the Brian Lehrer show today. Coming up in just a little bit, we're going to start our Hundred years of A Hundred Things, your best family stories from the last hundred years, but don't call in with those yet.

We'll do that after the news. We'll finish up with this first. Anything you've changed your mind about during your lifetime if you're 40 years old or younger. We did it for 80 years old or older in the previous segment. If you're 40 years old or younger, what have you changed your mind about in your lifetime so far? 212-433-WNYC. Oliver in Manhattan, you're on WNYC. Hi, Oliver.

Oliver: Hello. It's nice to be on air.

Brian Lehrer: Nice to have you. Tell us your story.

Oliver: Do I talk about story?

Brian Lehrer: Yes.

Oliver: Okay. I've changed my mind on feminism. I think as a young man on the Internet, it is easy to believe you are a victim. There are a lot of influences on the right nowadays on Internet spaces, Ben Shapiro comes to mind, who talk fast and present logic that is easy to fall into and think that the world is against you. I think over the last six years, I've realized that feminism has a lot to say about men's issues as well.

That equality, to achieve better equality, it's important that everybody is a part of the dialogue. I think some conservatives believe that feminism is against them, and then they remove themselves from the dialogue, which means that if they have anything valuable to actually say about men's rights, they don't get to say them because they've estranged themselves. That's a sad thing to see.

Brian Lehrer: Interesting take. What made you change from your first position thinking the world was against young men like you? What made you change to the more open or feminist position? Can you think of a thing? Was there a turning point? Was it gradual?

Oliver: I think it was gradual. I think it came with a little bit of maturity and actually thinking about my own life. I think on the Internet you can get lost a little bit and be detached from reality. I think the reality is that my life as a man is actually quite privileged and quite a good position to be in.

Brian Lehrer: A little maturity as you've gotten a little older. How old are you now?

Oliver: I'm 21.

Brian Lehrer: Oliver, thank you very much for your call. Maturing into the next phase of life at 21, Oliver in Manhattan. Marvin in West New York, you're on WNYC. Hi, Marvin.

Marvin: Hi. Thanks for taking the call. I just wanted to say that for me, I changed my mind on libertarianism as a political philosophy. I used to think it was very chaotic, but with the rise of Donald Trump over the past eight years, particularly with his reelection now, I see that protection of rights really is of the utmost importance and how easy they can be taken away simply because you're an other. I am an immigrant, and I've literally watched, I guess the word is horror, how in eight years, the view on immigration in America has completely switched.

Brian Lehrer: Border issue or immigration issue is one thing, but you're tying it into your view on libertarianism. Make that connection for us.

Marvin: Libertarianism, one of the things, from what I understand it too, is the government shouldn't insert itself in the business of people or organizations and people. If people are able to move across borders and conduct themselves, conduct business, perform a job, perform a task without causing harm to others, then I do think, if you're a libertarian, then it would be a good thing in your view. Whereas the government saying, this border is sealed, now people can't come across, and if you have a business, you can't fulfill your worker, your needs for workers, because you no longer have that ability.

That is government intervention. As well as on the other side, there's also the rights that have been taken away, for example, from women, from the LGBTQ community that are on the table as well, that I feel that libertarians had a point when they said that we need to make sure we are protecting our rights. Those are utmost importance.

Brian Lehrer: It's interesting. Usually, I think libertarianism in the current political context in the United States, current meaning for decades now, gets applied to leaving businesses alone. You've got a libertarian case for open or loose borders there too, which is really interesting. Marvin, thank you very much. One more. Jolie in Queens, you're on WNYC. Hi, Jolie.

Jolie: Hi, Brian. This is actually a callback from 2019 when you had a segment where you were asking folks if they had supported Kanye and not Taylor and done the flip flop.

Brian Lehrer: Oh, at the Grammys.

Jolie: No, this was during her reputation to her 2019. Coming back in the future from the Grammys. No, this was like when Kanye had the meeting with Trump, and then Taylor spoke out her political beliefs for the first time and got a bunch of young people to come out and register to vote.

Brian Lehrer: Yes. Now, you're back.

Jolie: I called. I was very excited to defend Taylor Swift. Anyway, so the following year, I was on a plane to Texas, and I met this young woman on the plane. She and I were chatting, and she had just gotten done working for a major record label. Because I do my due diligence, I didn't want to hear from this woman about Taylor Swift, but I asked her, "What is your opinion? What do you think of her as a human." She just gave me this, like, "Mm-mm, no good."

I can't remember exactly all that she had said, but it really checked me, and I was like, all right, I don't know if I can go to bat for Taylor right now. It was okay-- 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, and then jump to this year, and the Eras movie that came out in the theater. Was not lucky enough to see her concert. Didn't even try, but went to the movie theater, shared the experience with 15 other people. There was a row of teenage girls behind me, maybe like 14, 15 years old. We watched this-- I don't know. Did you watch the Eras movie?

Brian Lehrer: No, I haven't seen the film. I want to, but I haven't gotten to it yet.

Jolie: Oh, maybe Christmas special for you. Anyway. These young girls and me and my friends were having this physical reaction to it starting. It was just something awoke me. I heard songs I had never heard. I hadn't heard by her because they came out during this time where I had stepped away and was not as interested in what she had to say or what kind of music she had to make. I cried probably multiple times during the concert movie.

Brian Lehrer: Jolie, because we're coming to the end of the segment, was it that for you, now in your 30s, and you'd drifted away, you saw how much she meant to these teenagers in the audience, and that brought you back in emotionally?

Jolie: Yes, and just realizing that there is just something very pure and likable about her. If these teenage girls can experience it, so can I, which I do [crosstalk]

Brian Lehrer: Now, maybe you gave me an idea for a Christmas week double feature for myself. I'll watch the Eras concert film, and I'll watch the new Dylan movie, and it'll be like this call in.

Jolie: [crosstalk]

Brian Lehrer: It'll be two generations of concert films. Julie, thank you very much for your calls and thanks to all of you who called over 80 or under 40 with how you've changed your mind.

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