Title: Call Your Senator: Sen. Andy Kim on Social Security, Town Halls and More

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Brian Lehrer: It'S The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning, everyone. Well, another weekend, another weekend of non stop news. I hope you weren't paying as much attention as I was. Two of the things that happened since Friday's show that we'll talk about today, Columbia University announcing what are being seen as concessions to Trump administration demands regarding anti-Semitism. In order to get back $400 million in federal funding, Trump had suspended mostly NIH grants. We'll talk about Columbia explicitly coming up. Another thing is yet another statement from a Trump official raising doubt about their commitment to Social Security. Elon Musk called it a Ponzi scheme. Well, now Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick said this on Friday.

Howard Lutnick: Let's say Social Security didn't send out their checks this month, my mother in law who's 94, she wouldn't call and complain. She just wouldn't. She thinks something got messed up and she'll get it next month. A fraudster always makes the loudest noise, screaming, yelling, and complaining.

Brian Lehrer: Lutnick on the All-In podcast. That comment has drawn a lot of criticism over his suggestion that ordinary Social Security recipients wouldn't miss a check if it didn't come. We'll talk about that and much more in our first segment today. It's our latest Call Your Senator segment. We do these monthly with New Jersey Senator, Andy Kim, and New York Senator, Kirsten Gillibrand once a month. Today it's my questions and yours for Sen. Kim, Sen. Gillibrand's month of March appearance is coming up on Wednesday. Our lines are open with first priority to New Jersey callers at 212-433-WNYC. 212-433-9692. Call or text. We'll also discuss town halls he's been holding in both Democratic and Republican districts and more. Sen. Kim, thanks for coming on again for this. Welcome back to WNYC.

Sen. Andy Kim: Thank you. Good morning.

Brian Lehrer: I don't know if you heard the clip we played just before we hooked you up. Are you concerned about Trump's or the Republican Congress's commitment to Social Security after hearing Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick say his mother wouldn't miss a check if it didn't arrive?

Sen. Andy Kim: What the secretary said was just really indicative just how out of touch this billionaire cabinet is. Just the ease with which he said this, it just clearly removed from just the hardships that many are facing right now. I just spoke with a senior center in New Jersey, people are requiring Social Security to get by, to be able to pay the bills, to be able to live their lives. We just see the challenges that people are facing and this administration is clearly out of touch with that and taking policies and actions that will hurt our seniors in our country.

Brian Lehrer: Lutnick, for people who don't know, comes to government from being CEO of a major Wall Street firm, so his mom is presumably financially very comfortable. Do you think he's just out of touch with what regular delivery of Social Security checks means to the more average person who receives them? Or worse than that, Trump always says he won't touch Social Security benefits. Are Lutnick and Musk setting up for something different, setting up the public for something different, or are they just a little off the talking points and maybe Trump isn't even all that happy with them?

Sen. Andy Kim: No. If you look at someone like Elon Musk, he's called Social Security a Ponzi scheme. I get it. It's easy for him when he's the richest man in the world, but for the rest of us, Social Security is not an entitlement. It's an earned benefit. It's something that people are paying into. It has been the greatest tool that we've had to fight against and stop elder poverty in this country. That's the type of action the actions that we see right now that could very well hurt people's abilities to access Social Security, closing offices, making it harder for people to get services. That's the kind of action that's just going to further the inequality in our country right now.

Brian Lehrer: Let's talk about the town halls you've been having. Town halls have become a big source of contention for Republican members who are beginning to face public blowback, sometimes from Democrats showing up there, yes, but also sometimes from Republican constituents getting hurt themselves by DOGE cuts or other things. What was your series of town halls in different kinds of districts around New Jersey?

Sen. Andy Kim: Thank you for this. What I'll just start by saying is, the town hall is a great American tradition, and it should just be happening all the time. I just did about 85 town halls in my time in Congress so far in the House and in the Senate so far. This is a chance for us to be able to engage with everybody, allow anyone to be able to come ask a question. I've been saying this line a lot lately where I say if you're only having comfortable conversations in politics, it means you're not talking to all the people you need to be talking to. I see this as part of our job.

Yes, I did three town halls over the course of three days this past week. I did them in areas of New Jersey that are Republican areas, places that Trump won and places where those Republicans in the House of Representatives are voting for this Reconciliation Bill that's leading up to for gutting Medicaid and SNAP benefits and so many other things and they're not having town halls with their constituents. What I heard at these town halls are people that are furious at what Trump and Musk are doing.

I heard from veterans that are worried about the VA benefits and tens of thousands of people getting laid off there, people that are saying, "Hey, look, this isn't about Democrats or Republicans. We should all be concerned about attacks upon our constitution, efforts by this president to try to sideline and usurp power from the other two branches of government. This isn't about policy differences. This is about the constitution and whether or not we're going to commit to protecting it." That's something that came across to me loud and clear. It was so important for me to be able to hear that from the people of New Jersey.

Brian Lehrer: Let me ask you about a few things you might have heard from Democrats and Republicans in different districts. For the Republicans, reporting by the New York Times and others indicates Trump voters like Trump even more. Something like that was a New York Times headline of an opinion piece the other day, and that they're experiencing "Glee," it said in that article, which was an analysis, maybe read it, by four of their conservative columnists, of why people who voted for Trump like Trump even better now, despite everything that's going on.

Part of their takeaway was that many of these voters are experiencing glee over the assaults on what they see as liberal and elite institutions like universities, foreign aid and the press, DEI, defense of immigrants here illegally. They also like that he's a strong leader trying to bring a chaotic country and world back under control. On that collection of things, did you hear it? Did you hear any of it?

Sen. Andy Kim: Look, there were some Trump supporters at the town hall, people wearing red MAGA hats. Look, they're welcome as much as anybody else to these town halls. What I heard mostly is the concern just writ large about what this president is doing. I did not hear the glee. In fact, what I heard from even supporters of his is a sense that he is not focused on the economy and he is not focused on lowering costs, which is something that he said. In fact, he's not only not focused on it, he's making things worse. We're seeing these tariffs now raising prices for American families. It's going to get worse and worse as we see this rollout even further. He's not focused on the issues related to our economy.

I think that that's something that's putting a lot of families in a lot of stress and a lot of anxiety about what comes next. I get it. The president certainly has a fervent backing amongst the MAGA crowd, but when it comes to the wider breadth of Americans-- people were looking for somebody that was going to be a disruptor, no doubt. When we see the kind of disruptions that he's focused on, he's not having disruptions that are going to help people be able to afford housing, afford transit and transportation.

What we're seeing is a disruption that's going to take away health care from millions of Americans through Medicaid and other programs and then to be able to provide trillions of dollars of tax cuts back to Elon Musk, back to Jeff Bezos and the billionaires. That's the kind of truth that I hope the American people see more and more of as we go further ahead.

Brian Lehrer: I'll ask you about some things you might have heard in the Democratic districts that you held town halls in. Let's take our first call. Kathleen in Monmouth Beach wants to react to that Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick clip on Social Security, I think. Kathleen, you're on WNYC. Hello.

Kathleen: Hello. Hello. Sen. Kim, first of all, I'd like to tell you you've a terrific staff in your Washington office. Every time I call there, they engage with you. It's wonderful. More importantly, about today's topic, I have paid into Social Security for 50 years from the age of 17 to 67. That is my money. That is not Lutnick's or Musk's or Trump's money to play with. I want to know what practical thing you actually think you can do that to help save it for us. Thank you.

Sen. Andy Kim: Thanks, Kathleen.

Brian Lehrer: Senator?

Sen. Andy Kim: Thank you, Kathleen. You're absolutely right, that is your money. You earn that over the course of your life. I was just with my father this weekend for his birthday and we were going through his finances and again, he's dependent upon his Social Security for over 90%, 95% of his income per month. He needs it to be able to pay the bills. That's what we need to make sure that we're protecting for so many people right now. First of all, we need to make sure we're shining a light on what Trump and Elon Musk are doing right now in terms of their efforts to try to take away services from people.

I'm glad you're calling my office and getting through. That's what people deserve. They deserve what I often call customer service governance. I know it's not rocket science, but we deserve to make sure that people, when they have concerns, that they are able to get that addressed. That's something that I hope people continue to make noise about. That's something where we know how sensitive the politics in America are, especially to seniors who vote in very significant levels. That's the kind of noise we need to make. It's not just what we're against. We really need to be able to show a positive vision for what we're trying to do going forward.

We know challenges are coming when it comes to Social Security in terms of solvency as the Republicans continue to try to sabotage it. We should be taking steps and laying out, for instance, that we can lift the cap in terms of being able to pay into Social Security and make sure people like Elon Musk are paying their fair share and not just saddling the middle class with having to carry the bulk of this. This is the type of sensible actions that we can be taking in a bipartisan way to be able to protect Social Security, not just now, but for generations to come.

Again, we need to have both that effort of pushing back against and exposing the current actions that are trying to get after what Elon Musk calls a Ponzi scheme, as well as making sure that we're taking the longer-term steps to be able to protect this for generations.

Brian Lehrer: One more on Social Security. Russell in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC with Sen. Andy Kim. Hi, Russell.

Russell: Hi, Brian. Hi, Sen. Kim. To the point of Elon Musk calling it a Ponzi scheme, I'm curious, what are the merits of that argument and how does Social Security work? I'm no expert, but my understanding is we are paying in, there are direct payments going out to older folks. There is a Social Security trust that's invested in very low yielding stuff, is my understanding. Again, I'm no expert, but I think there is a little bit of merit, or at least there's a popular thought that there is some merit to the idea that it is a Ponzi scheme in the sense that it requires population growth of larger and larger working populations to support a smaller retired population.

Can either you or senators talk to the merits? Because it is one thing just to ignore that point and just say, "Billionaires are out of touch," to which I would probably agree. If someone who's living on Social Security missed a check, I'm sure they would very much notice it. I think there is in the popular idea that this is a little Ponzi scheme-ish. Can we talk to them, here's where he's wrong, here's where he's right.

Brian Lehrer: Fair question. Russell, thank you very much for that. Senator, I think it is probably accurate to say the money being paid into Social Security directly from Social Security payroll taxes does not equal what's going out or going to be going out as we have a larger and larger share of the population that's on it. Fair?

Sen. Andy Kim: Well, let's look at why the math isn't adding up in the way that it should be is again, we're seeing a cap in terms of how much people need to pay into Social Security. We see that cap at a little over $176,000 right now, which means that, again, someone like Elon Musk pays up to the exact same point that people in the middle class that they're hitting that cap are paying into this. That's why we're seeing this, because it's not something that's equal to where the wealth of our country is being accumulated.

Right now we live in the time of the greatest amount of inequality in our nation's history. We have a handful of billionaires who have more wealth than the bottom 40%, 50% of Americans. That's why we're seeing this problem here, is we're not seeing it distributed where the wealth is. That's, again, why I was saying if we can lift that cap, say, "Hey, look, for those that are earning $400,000 or more a year, you need to start paying back into this in terms of your contributions." An action like that would just overnight be able to put Social Security on a better footing.

It's not a Ponzi scheme because where we see the problem is actually that where the wealth is concentrated in this country are not the ones that are paying into this and as a result is not reflective of our country. It's not just about generational change. It's about where the wealth is concentrated and whether or not we're seeing the level of fairness that we should be seeing across Social Security and our other efforts like Medicare.

Brian Lehrer: All right. We talked a little bit about what you were hearing in Republican districts as you've been doing town halls recently as senator from New Jersey in both Republican and Democratic districts. We're going to go on now to some of what you heard in Democratic districts. I'm going to let a caller set this up, Gregory and Elizabeth, because I have a feeling Gregory is going to reflect something that you probably heard in a lot of Democratic districts. Gregory, you're on WNYC with Sen. Kim. Hello.

Gregory: Hi, good morning. Thank you so much for taking the call. Thank you, Sen. Kim. I had a quick question in regards to the work you're actually doing to remove some of the toxic senior leadership in the Democratic Party such as Sen. Schumer, as well as doing work to make sure that our Medicaid and Medicare is protected. My grandfather lives in an independent living facility and eventually we are going to move him to assisted living that will be Medicaid funded. It seems that there's a lot of pontification about what things are going to happen or what we need to protect. I just want to know some actionable items and some plans.

Sen. Schumer obviously showed that he is not backing the working party and he bent to the corporations as opposed to actually caring about us. Sounds like you want to make sure that we are protected. What are you doing to make sure we are protected and what can I tell my grandfather as he eagerly awaits his next Social Security check and worrying about where he's going to live?

Brian Lehrer: Gregory, thank you. I think there are really two questions there. One is about preserving those benefits. The other is about Sen. Schumer. Andy?

Sen. Andy Kim: Thanks for raising those. Let me start with the point about the benefits because my father just took another bad fall this past weekend, actually, while I was at a town hall and I had to rush out to go see him. He's been having a lot of trouble with his physical decline and it's exposed a lot of cognitive decline. What we've really come to see, and I know others have experienced this, is he needs to be somewhere where he can get his help. What we've seen in this country is that basically means that my family either has to pay $10,000 a month out of pocket every single month, or we need to basically get my dad on a path towards bankruptcy so that he'd be eligible for Medicaid.

How is that an actual choice in America, the richest, most powerful country in the world? Look, to Gregory's point, right now, the Republicans are trying to put in $880 billion worth of cuts potentially to Medicaid. This would be something that is catastrophic, not just for seniors and those that are aging, but for people in the disability community. For one out of every three kids in New Jersey gets their health care through Medicaid. 2 million people out of 9 million people in my state, Medicaid. This is an effort where we need to mobilize a nationwide effort to be able to save Medicaid, to be able to shine a light on what the Republicans are trying to do in the next couple of weeks with this Reconciliation Bill.

I'm trying to mobilize the disability community in New Jersey, across this country, mobilize seniors, mobilize others, to be able to explain that people on Medicaid, they're not lazy people who are just trying to be able to mooch off of others. These are people that need support in a country that clearly has a broken healthcare system. That's something I hope Gregory and others agree with, and that's something that I'm going to be shining a light on through this reconciliation process. I still believe we can try to save Medicaid as we did save the Affordable Care Act in 2017 when that was under assault.

Now, what that takes, and this gets to the other point, is we need an actual cogent strategy here to be able to do this, and that's what we've been struggling with. We haven't been able to keep up with just the sheer volume and speed of the attacks by President Trump upon our society in a lot of different fronts. That is something I fully take on board as we've seen just how challenging that has been. That's really where the focus is.

I wanted to listen to the people of Jersey over the last week. Just got back to the Capitol Building. We're going to have some tough conversations here this week about how do we actually proceed, what is our strategy, and how do we make sure we have leadership in the party, not just in Congress, but throughout this country, to be able to work in unison, to be able to take this on?

Brian Lehrer: Are you seriously considering supporting the movement to remove Schumer as Minority Leader? You talk about town halls. You've probably been seeing that this Bernie Sanders, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez tour has been drawing really big crowds. I saw a number of over 30,000 at one in Colorado over the weekend. Sen. Schumer wouldn't draw crowds like that. They're talking with a kind of passion. Whether you agree with them or not, on every particular point of every issue, they're talking with a passion that a lot of Democrats think Schumer and you and everybody else needs to be talking with, and Schumer in particular has shown he's not up to it. Your response?

Sen. Andy Kim: Well, look, that's exactly why I went out and did these town halls and allowing everyone to come and not just listen to me, but to be able to tell me what's on their minds. I do think that every single Democrat should be out there doing these town halls, mobilizing. Not just at the federal level. I've been trying to mobilize state level, local levels, make sure that every tool in our toolbox is in full motion to be able to engage that. As I said, right now we clearly don't have the right strategy to meet this moment. That is something that the Democratic Party absolutely needs to fix.

That's why I'm pushing in terms of what I'm trying to do, in terms of stopping these tariffs, trying to save Medicaid, trying to come up with my own ideas that I can bring to bear and not just sit around and wait for others to be able to come up with that plan. I do think that this is a moment where we very clearly see we were not just on the cusp of a constitutional crisis, but we are very much in a constitutional crisis. We need to make sure we have the strategy and the leadership to do that. That's what I'm going to try to push for over the course of this week and following and make sure that we are rising up to what it is that the American people are demanding.

Their anger towards Trump and Musk are enormous, rightfully so. We are at a level of anxiety, a level of precariousness as a democracy. That is not the kind of America where I want to raise my seven-year-old and my nine-year-old little boys. Look, my loyalties are not to any particular person or leader in the Democratic Party. It's to the people of New Jersey and to the constitution. I'm going to just push as hard as I can to be able to get the kind of strategy and leadership we need.

Brian Lehrer: John in Ocean County, you're on WNYC with Sen. Andy Kim. Hi John.

John: Thanks for taking my call, Brian. While you have a New Jersey focus and I do support a lot of the efforts of Sen. Kim, but I really wanted to urge you, because I remember during the first Trump term, you did a focus on the Frelinghuysen district. I believe that's the 11th and his lack of responsiveness. I'm in the 4th district in Ocean County.

Brian Lehrer: That was former-- just for reference for our listeners, former Republican Congressman writing Frelinghuysen. Right?

John: Yes, that is now the Mikie Sherrill district. In the 4th district, we have a situation so much more frustrating, obviously if you're a Democrat, even more so. We are represented by a total cipher, Chris Smith, Reelected, I don't know, 15 times? Because it's beyond the fact that he doesn't live here. His office, his staff is practiced when you call them at the art of the polite but infuriating non response, they're geniuses at it and it is so frustrating.

Brian Lehrer: Let me ask you a follow-up question. I don't remember that segment in the first Trump term on the former congressman. I'll take your word for it. What do you want Sen. Kim to do or why do you think that if Congressman Smith is as bad as you say he is, that he keeps getting elected every two years?

John: Well, actually, Brian, I was taking this opportunity to urge your show to do a focus on what it is like to be a constituent in a district represented by this level of non-responsiveness. I really think this would be a vital public service.

Brian Lehrer: I understand. Thank you very much. Anything on that, Senator?

Sen. Andy Kim: Yes. A lot on that right now. I know he mentioned something about former Congressman Frelinghuysen. That's not from the part of New Jersey that I'm from. I actually, in 2018, took on the race to be able to be the Congressman that represents most of Ocean County, which is part of the area that he was just talking about with Representative Chris Smith who's been in Congress for longer than I've been alive on this earth. I think again, what we need is that sense of the customer service governance.

I was actually-- one of the last town hall I did on Saturday morning was in Chris Smith's district. This is deep red Ocean County-- Republican area, Brick Town, Ocean County. People told me I was crazy for going into that area to do a town hall that anyone can show up to. We had maxed out the room. In fact, it was so crowded with people, we had over 200 people outside listening to the town hall, huddled around a speaker because we couldn't fit them in the room. There is something happening right now where people are engaged and mobilizing and worried about this.

It's not breaking down just on partisan levels like Elon wants you to think. It is people who are furious about what's to come on healthcare. Veterans who are worried about the services that they're trying to get. That's something that we need to make sure, again, we're doing that in areas that are heavily Republican. This is not about mobilizing just along partisan lines, mobilizing just in Democratic areas. I take that very seriously. I was a Democrat that won the 3rd congressional district in 2020, in a year that Trump won it himself. I was one of only seven Democrats in the country to win a district that Trump won.

I know how it is that we can try to engage in these areas, try to mobilize and try to build on that. That's the kind of strategy that we need, not just in New Jersey, but across this country, and what I'm trying to bring to bear.

Brian Lehrer: I know we've got about three minutes left with you in this segment. Let me touch on two other things real briefly. One that doesn't get a lot of press that I see you've been working on. I want to give you a little bit of a platform to talk about, because I see you're criticizing some kinds of cuts to the Department of Housing and Urban Development as bad for New Jersey. Again, this is one department that hasn't made many headlines. What's that about?

Sen. Andy Kim: Well, what we see right now is a giant affordability crisis when it comes to housing in New Jersey, across the entire country is one of the biggest problems that we face. It's something that's going to have generational impacts if we don't address it. At this time, we're now seeing the Trump administration making cuts, laying off federal workers whose job it is is to be able to help address the needs of affordable housing for many Americans. Everybody deserves to have a--

Brian Lehrer: Is it just thinning out the bureaucracy, or can you argue that this affects New Jerseyans, where obviously, everywhere, but certainly a lot in New Jersey, housing is a huge issue, but what's the direct impact in like 15 seconds?

Sen. Andy Kim: Well, here's a great point that we need to make. Is that what Elon Musk is doing, it's not about efficiency, as much as he screams and yells about it. It's about pushing forward an effort that is really trying to cut the ability for government to do what it needs to, which is to be able to help people and make sure that there's a baseline, a foundation of dignity and decency in this country. Instead, he just wants it so he can be able to draw upon those government contracts and continue to make billions of dollars off of the backs of the American people.

That's what I want people to see, is follow the money and see where it's going, see who's benefiting from what Trump and Elon Musk are doing. You'll very much realize it's the people in the mirror that they're looking at. It's going to be the billionaires that are benefiting and leaving the rest of us out to dry. That's what we're seeing across the board. That's why I think this is such a dangerous moment for America. I'm not somebody who's traditionally an alarmist, but again, what I'm seeing right now, this is not the kind of America I want to raise my kids in.

Brian Lehrer: Lastly, later in the show, we'll be talking about Columbia University's response to demands made by Trump. They did make some concessions regarding anti-Semitism. What do you think the implications are for Rutgers or any other New Jersey school? I see, for example, an article a couple of days ago in northjersey.com headline, "Trump targets Rutgers over a New Jersey nonprofit that promotes diversity of doctoral students."

Sen. Andy Kim: Look, again, this is a sign of a president who is abusing his power. Use it in the way that we see leaders in authoritarian nations use it, which is about using it for direct retribution. It's affected not just the education system, but the business community. Chilling effect across the business community as we've seen them targeted. That this administration target individual law firms and businesses. Again, that's the type of abuse of power that we're seeing. If they actually want to take on issues of equality and diversity in colleges and universities, maybe they should focus on getting rid of the legacy admissions process that got so many of the Trump kids into the University of Pennsylvania and elsewhere.

We're seeing that kind of effort again to just continue to build towards allowing those with-- have the wealth and have the connections be able to keep and be able to prevent education from being what it should be doing, which is the great equalizer in a society that allows for that type of economic mobility that our country was founded upon and the American dream is based upon. Those are the things that we should be focused on and that as well as lowering the cost for families and Americans that are struggling right now. We're seeing this administration doing anything but.

Brian Lehrer: New Jersey Democratic Senator, Andy Kim, comes on once a month in this Call Your Senator segment. We have a town hall on this show every day and once a month it's with Sen. Kim. Also once a month, it's with Sen. Gillibrand from New York. I think I misstated her next appearance. We're still finalizing when she's going to come on for her March appearance. Sen. Kim, we really appreciate it. Thank you very much.

Sen. Andy Kim: Thanks as always.

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