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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. As I said before the break, now a brief follow-up on yesterday's call-in with parents and teachers reflecting on the lasting effects of COVID-19 remote learning on kids as students return to school after summer break. In recent days, we invited you to look back at the child you had five years ago, before the pandemic era, and share how you think remote learning impacted not just your child's education, but centrally, their socialization and their personality. We got many stories, but your responses left us with as many questions as answers. Most of you told us that your kid had become more introverted. That was a common theme. One professor of college freshmen observed that her students are "really uncomfortable interacting with each other, suggesting that was different before the pandemic." Another common thread was, of course, screens.

Our caller, Christina, in Lower Manhattan, was excited about the statewide bell-to-bell cell phone ban that schools have implemented this year in hopes that kids would get back to socializing with each other, but the implication was pandemic isolation increased the relationships with the screens. How much do these really stem these behaviors, really stem from the pandemic era and remote learning, rather than the times we're living in in a much broader way?

Joining me now to discuss what she's seeing in practice is Angela Mora, a social worker, an LMSW, child therapist at the Cope With School group NYC. Angela, welcome to WNYC. Thank you for giving us time.

Angela Mora: Thank you so much, Brian, for having me.

Brian Lehrer: Just tell everybody briefly what is Cope With School NYC?

Angela Mora: Cope With School NYC is located on the Upper West Side of Manhattan, and we provide therapeutic support to children, adolescents, adults, and families. We provide individual therapy along with group sessions as well. Our role is really to support families and youngsters to get through their school environment and live a better life.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, if anybody wants to ask Angela Mora a question related to the topic, 212-433-WNYC. We've got about 10 minutes, 212-433-9692, call or text. Let me ask you a very open-ended question. What are you seeing at Cope With School NYC in terms of the lasting impacts from from remote learning? Where would you start?

Angela Mora: Well, I'd love to start off by saying that in fact, the pandemic has had some impact, negative impacts on our children and our adolescents. We've seen quite a bit of learning gaps that haven't gone away as a result of the pandemic. We've seen how mental health also has taken a big hit due to the pandemic. We've seen depression, anxiety, and it's rise sharply due to the pandemic. For example, children and adolescents that are now being diagnosed with depression has increased by 60%.

Healthy routines really suffered during the pandemic, and so we're seeing a lot of that being manifested by children. That socialization piece is a big one. Children really forgot, or really were not interacting with each other during the pandemic. Just being home, not really running around, having movement, but sitting around a little bit more, having more screen time, all of that tied into worse well-being, and so there's been an impact.

Brian Lehrer: Well, to one of the particulars, yesterday's callers frequently mentioned kids being more introverted. I wonder if that's what you see. One could theorize that after a period of isolation, kids would be really anxious to start interacting with each other again. It's been three years, right, since sort of the last remnants of remote learning enforced kids staying at home. Why would kids still be introverted today in any significant numbers? Why would that be? Or are you seeing a variety of responses in different groups where some rushed into socialization or social contact while others have remained more introverted?

Angela Mora: Well, we definitely know that during the pandemic we were all very isolated, and it was more difficult to really connect with each other. We did try through virtual learning, and seeing our family members and friends via FaceTime, for example, but children, especially our younger children, did not have an opportunity to have those natural interactions in the playground, getting out into the world, and really being able to connect in that way. Now, years later, we're seeing more of the impact of not having that connectivity earlier on.

The fortunate thing is that there's a lot of things that we can do to really support our children and our adolescents so that they can really increase their socialization. Families can do some key things such as creating opportunities for play dates, making sure that children's physical activity is really set so they have other things going on aside from school. Individual and family therapy is available. Group therapy is wonderful where children have an opportunity to interact in a more meaningful way. School-based mental health programs have also been started in many schools, and they're high quality and opportunities to really tackle some of those challenges within the school setting.

Also, having children have an opportunity to receive high quality and high dosage of tutoring might also be a great way to have children get that additional support, and overall routines. Routines really matter. Our children need healthy screen time, better sleep, consistent schedules, and all of that will result in improved well-being.

Brian Lehrer: Chris in Morristown, you're on WNYC. Hi, Chris.

Chris: Hi. Thanks for taking my call. My question, and I have observed what the school is observing in children from 3 to mid-20s, quite honestly, but how do you distinguish between the impact of COVID and the impact of social media? Because I see four-year-olds scrolling on phones, looking at little connectivity, certainly 7, 8, 9, 10. How do you distinguish between which is the cause?

Angela Mora: Yes, it absolutely matters because once we get deeper into the cause of children being more disconnected socially, and maybe it is around increased screen time, or it might be as a result of the pandemic and that isolation. I think once we're able to get a better sense of the individual child's challenges, we can then address it, together as a team with the family, so that we can most likely work on a plan to maybe decrease the screen time if that's what's really creating the challenge, and really filling those spaces with more family time, more socialization opportunities for the child, more time to play.

I think that's where we can really address, but first we would have to dive deeper with the individual child. We don't want to just put the children in a category and say it's either this or or that. It really takes a little bit more of an assessment.

Brian Lehrer: Different kids, and Chris, I hope that answers your question. Thank you very much. We're talking about many different children. Some are now adults, right? We're talking about people in many different stages of development. In the height of COVID period, some were in preschool, others were graduating high school.

We have a text from a listener, Meerab, in Brooklyn, who says, "I was in my senior year of high school and my freshman year of college during the pandemic. I think the isolation combined with the rise of TikTok and other short form content really kill children's attention spans and ability or willingness to interact. Then he writes, "As a 23-year-old now, I think coming back into society and interaction was manageable," manageable for themselves, "however, I have younger cousins age 4 to 8 that I feel like never grew out of it, which may be because they're formative toddler and young adolescents years were spent glued to a phone instead of interacting."

What do you think about that text for people who are a different age at the time standpoint?

Angela Mora: Absolutely. I think it absolutely had an impact on how children, adolescents, and now adults were interacting at that time where their screen time absolutely increased and their way of connecting to others became very virtual. After the pandemic, that transition didn't quite happen as easily for young people. It's a matter of concern, deep concern, and we have to be able to tackle it individually in a supportive way, nonjudgmentally, and ensuring that while trying to decrease that screen time, really utilizing that additional time that's freed up for more meaningful activities and family time, and real social connections, face to face.

Brian Lehrer: We just have 30 seconds left, and Alan, in Queens, I see you. We don't have time to take your call, but I'll ask you a question, and that is, if the children of Florida, where there was a shorter period of remote learning, have exhibited different adjustments, maybe you don't know, maybe you just work in New York and you don't know, but we have 20 seconds in any case.

Angela Mora: It's an incredibly important question. I would love to do some more research on that. It would be very interesting to see what the differences in the socialization dynamic are, and perhaps, we can answer that question another day, but thank you everyone for your questions. For families and parents, thank you.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you for answering so many questions today. Angela Mora, child therapist, with Cope With School NYC. That's The Brian Lehrer Show for today. Have a great weekend, everyone, and stay tuned for Alison.

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