Title: Avoiding IRS Tax Scams

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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. As we approach the IRS tax deadline next week, a week from today, we're going to talk about something that I'm sure a lot of you have come across. Tax scams. Those texts and emails claiming to be from the IRS, telling you that you have to urgently submit your information or pay some fees or something, or else you will be subject to penalties. Well, according to the FBI's Internet Crime Complaint Center, government impersonation scams led to $400 million in losses in 2024, the last year they have figures for, and a lot of that was through tax scams.

Now, tax scams aren't exactly new, but in the past few years, the growth of artificial intelligence has made these operations a whole lot more convincing to many people. There used to be pretty obvious warning signs, so a lot of people could pick up on, major typos or other kinds of suspicious language, but with the help of AI, scammers have gotten a lot better at posing as the IRS. It's all happening while the Trump administration has been slashing IRS enforcement funding and manpower used to go after these bad actors. In the chaos of this tax filing season, it's easy to fall for these traps.

As part of our ongoing Cybersecurity Series here on The Brian Lehrer Show, we're going to try to help out a little bit now. With us, to give us all some tips and tricks to avoid getting scammed this tax season is Kelly Phillips Erb, a tax attorney, senior writer at Forbes, and author of the blog, Taxgirl. Hey, Kelly. Welcome to WNYC.

Kelly Phillips Erb: Hi, thanks for having me.

Brian Lehrer: I'll start here. There are a few pretty big tax changes that are in place this year because of Trump's so-called One Big Beautiful Bill from last year. Can you tell us about some of these changes, specifically in terms of how they're creating new opportunities for scammers?

Kelly Phillips Erb: Oh, sure thing. I think the one that I've heard the most feedback on to date is tied to the No Tax on Social Security. If you could see me, I'm doing air quotes because the No Tax on Social Security actually is an advanced deduction or an enhanced deduction for seniors. It's not actually an exemption for Social Security, and in fact, it's not even tied to Social Security. It's completely age-based, age 65. If you are over 65 but not getting Social Security benefits, you'd still qualify. If you're under 65 and you do get Social Security benefits, you wouldn't qualify for this extra deduction.

Because it's confusing, scammers are seizing on this to say that folks need to get pre-authorized or to make sure they're eligible ahead of time to file. They're feeding into this fear that a lot of people have about making a mistake on their tax return, right? They want to make sure they're absolutely getting all the deductions they're entitled to, but they also want to make sure that they don't do something that's going to somehow subject them to an audit. Scammers are posing as professionals that will help you get pre-approved for your senior deduction or your No Tax on Social Security, when in fact that doesn't exist at all.

There's no pre-eligibility for any of the provisions under the One Big Beautiful Bill Act or any other tax provision. You don't have to get pre-approved to claim a deduction. Any of those kinds of pre-approvals, eligibility enhancements that you're seeing, also related to No Tax on Tips, No Tax on Overtime, all of those are bogus. It's just an effort to either get your money or your personal information, or in some cases, both.

Brian Lehrer: Really good tip to start out with there. Listeners, we need your help reporting this story to help your fellow listeners. Have you ever fallen for a tax scam? If so, what made it so convincing? Maybe you've gotten some texts or calls purporting to be from the IRS, and thought, "Wait a second, this doesn't seem quite right." What tipped you off with respect to those? Maybe you've used a tax preparer only to realize, "Uh-oh, this person is not legit," or maybe you're one of the people whose tax status has changed because of the "Big Beautiful Bill Act," and you feel like you need guidance to adjust for those changes in particular, like the one we were just hearing about.

Where are you getting that guidance? Have you been targeted by scammers offering to provide it? Tell us your tax scam stories and tips of your own. 212-433-WNYC. 212-433-9692. For our guest, Kelly Phillips Erb, tax attorney, senior writer at Forbes, and author of the blog, Taxgirl. Call or text 212-433-9692. We'll note that every year, the IRS releases a list that it calls its Dirty Dozen, a list of common scams and abusive tax schemes targeted to taxpayers and businesses. Kelly, we'll run through a few of these with you. Tell me about phishing and smishing, as the IRS calls it.

Kelly Phillips Erb: Right. Phishing, I'm sure everybody's seen. That's when you get a message where someone is trying to get you to take immediate action. That you owe more taxes. You have to confirm the information that's in an email to get a refund. Smishing is basically the same thing. Phishing is an email, smishing is a text. They often are set up to make it look like it's come directly from the IRS or some other tax authority. We're also seeing it purportedly come from tax professionals. Somebody that maybe you've worked with in the past, or their name sounds just a little familiar, and they're saying to you, "Your return is ready for review," even though you haven't worked with them this year.

What they want you to do usually is to click on a link. We're seeing more and more QR codes as well. What those links and QR codes are doing is they're redirecting you to a website that often looks like the IRS website, but it could be-- Well, it usually is a fake website that's been created, so that when you start putting in your information to verify your identity, purportedly with the IRS. You're putting in your Social Security information, maybe your direct deposit information, your name, your address, all of those kinds of personal information that you would normally provide to the IRS, it's being captured on these fake websites.

The best way to protect yourself is don't click on those emails that look suspicious. Don't open attachments from messages that you don't know about. Understand that the IRS does not reach out to you via text, via email, via social media. They will not call you unsolicited to ask you any information. They will also not demand payment over the phone. One of the key things to understand about scammers is that they work because they pressure you into making bad decisions. You always want to take a step back. Even if you think it might be legitimate, take a step back and think, "How can I kind of put some distance between me and this message?"

One of the best ways to do that is let's assume you actually do owe money to the IRS, or you are expecting information about your tax refund. Don't click on those links, or the attachment, or the QR code. Instead, go directly to the source. irs.gov is the official government website. Actually, if you haven't been on the site lately, I highly encourage you to go. It's come a long way from the old IRS website of yore. When you stop by now, you can actually register for your own IRS online account directly on irs.gov. Again, just a little scam tip. Don't pay anyone to help you set this up. There's no charge for it. You go directly to irs.gov, it's free. You can sign up, and you can see all of your tax information in the IRS portal.

If they've sent you a notice, if you're checking on the status of a refund, did they receive your return? A lot of that information will be online at irs.gov. If you get those emails, delete them. If you see the text, delete them. Don't be pressured into clicking those links.

Brian Lehrer: Debbie in Totowa, you're on WNYC. Hi, Debbie.

Debbie: Hi, Brian. How are you? Thanks so much for having me.

Brian Lehrer: Sure. What you got?

Debbie: So my mom is-- she's a good 74, but she's elderly, and unfortunately, was, thank God, because of me, almost a victim of one of those scams because she's one of those really by-the-book, loves and appreciates this country. She's contrary to the current administration, and she's an immigrant, and she didn't know, and she's older. I just think it's horrific how these people target the elderly because they're not well-versed and stuff like that. It's actually kind of comical. Whenever they've called me, I guess they must have taken me off the do-not-call list, because I was like, "What's your name? I'm going to report you to the FBI. Give me your name." They just hang up on me.

I actually did, like when I was much younger, in my 20s, I called the Bureau of Investigation. I said, "How are you guys attacking this?" I was much younger and uneducated, but they were like, "Ma'am, we do what we can," whatever. Then, to add to the Big Beautiful Bill, we're a working-class family. My mother, if God forbid, didn't have me, she wouldn't have anything. She worked two jobs her whole life, worked really hard to put us through school and stuff. All she lives on is Social Security, which is obviously not enough. Most seniors are torn between, "Okay, am I going to pay for--" I work in healthcare, like in an impoverished community, so I see it.

The increase in homelessness, and it's got nothing to do with drug addiction or bad choices. It's just, it's not enough money. What am I going to pay? Am I going to pay my public service, or am I going to buy my insulin? This Big Beautiful Bill, as it was presented by this administration, has really hurt middle-class Americans. That's all.

Brian Lehrer: Debbie, thank you very much. Yes. As you segue there from the scam that targeted your mother to your critique of Trump administration policy, we get it, but we're going to go back to IRS-related scams. Mohammad in Brooklyn has a story. Mohammad, you're on WNYC. Hi.

Mohammad: Yes. How are you doing today? First-time caller. Always listening to your show, and I enjoy your show very well.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you.

Mohammad: However, I usually receive a letter from the scammers, and that's happened quite often. One day, I decided to call to see what's going on with this income tax. The way the person responded to the phone is not like the professional IRS. I was like, "Take me through the breakdown of this income tax. When did I miss payments, or did I file my income tax wrong?" They, all of a sudden, just hang up the phone. I realized they just generate these special letters, and they rely on the ignorance of the other person not understanding how things in tax work.

Brian Lehrer: Yes. This was a letter you got in the mail, the regular postal service mail, saying you owe back tax?

Mohammad: Yes. They were showing me that I owe $200, and because of not making any payment, I'm supposed to pay $5,000, or they give me an option of a settlement. [unintelligible 00:12:35]

Brian Lehrer: What tipped you off that it was a scam?

Mohammad: Basically, when I called to understand what's going on, I'm not familiar with this type of thing. Second, I don't know, because of my name, they just targeted a specific group with different names. Then I was like, "Okay, can you break it down so I can consult my IRS auditor, I mean, the accountant, so he can help me out, understand what did I missed." He didn't give me any legitimate answer, like confident, I'm dealing with a professional from the IRS or something like that.

Brian Lehrer: He didn't want to bring an accountant into it. Mohammad, thank you. Please call us again. Kelly, back to you to Mohammad's call. Another one on the IRS's Dirty Dozen scam list is AI-enabled IRS impersonations. He got it the old-fashioned way, a letter in the mail, but it sounds like AI is enabling the same thing with the newest technology.

Kelly Phillips Erb: Oh, absolutely. Scammers are-- We tend to think of them, as we did before, maybe somebody in a basement, making a couple of calls, but that's actually not what happens at all. Scams are increasingly run by very sophisticated groups often linked to organized crime. They have better technology in some cases than our own law enforcement. They can do amazing things with caller ID spoofing. They can make calls appear like they're coming from legitimate government numbers. To Mohammad's point, absolutely. You can get mail that will redirect you to either a phone call or, again, a QR code. It'll say you owe money.

They're counting on the idea that if they send out 100,000 of those and only 1% of people respond, that's still 1,000 potential targets right there. The best advice, of course, is not to respond at all. I want to go back to, I think it was Debbie's call, too, when she mentioned talking to the scammers. I know it's incredibly enticing to want to give back their own medicine, like, "How dare you call my mother?" My mother's in her 70s, too. It would make me very angry. My dad actually had been impacted by a scam before. It does make you really angry, and you do have this gut of, "I want to respond. I'm going to get you. I'm going to turn you in."

My best advice on that is to not do those things, except the turn you in part. Absolutely, report them. You can send emails to phishing@irs.gov. You can report it to the FBI. I know you mentioned at the top of the program that they do have an Internet Crime Center, the ICC. There are ways that you can report these calls, and letters, and emails, which are really-- it's really important to do that, because that way, law enforcement can see why are people being targeted. Do we see specific geographical areas where this is happening? They can help advise people and warn them about these scams as they're coming.

When you make a call back, you're doing a couple of things. One, you are confirming to the scammers that that's a real number that they have. They probably bought it on the dark web, the phone number. Now they know it's legitimate. They know that it's a legitimate phone number that you will answer. They know that, especially if you say things, because especially if you're upset, right? You might say things in the moment like, "Don't call my mother ever again," for example. Now they know that you're a daughter, that the person is probably elderly. You're helping them build those profiles that they already have, probably again, bought from the dark web.

I would warn people to be very, very cautious about returning calls. Even if you think you're smarter, even if you think you're better, you probably are, but they have tools at their disposal that are helping build out this profile that could make you or your family a target later down the line.

Brian Lehrer: That's a really good tip. In fact, I think our one more caller that we have time for, Sandy in Park Slope, seems to have a story that may relate to that building a file on you thing. Sandy, you're on WNYC. Hi.

Sandy: Hi, there. A few years ago, probably five years ago now, I was in the middle of something and I answered the phone without thinking about it. A guy was posing as somebody from the IRS that I owed back taxes to. The way he just spoke was so convincing at first. He knew just enough information about my work history because I had a three or four-month gap a few years prior. That's what caught me. Then I was arguing with him. Like, "No, I pay my taxes." Then, about 5, 10 minutes into arguing, I realized, "Oh, he's a scammer." He even got a supervisor on the phone. Then I realized, like, "Oh, you're supposed to send certified mail." Then I woke up to what was happening, but he just had enough information that I fell for it.

Brian Lehrer: They knew information about you.

Sandy: Yes, he knew my--

Brian Lehrer: Sandy? He knew your what?

Sandy: He knew my name. He knew my phone number.

Brian Lehrer: Yes. As a start. Thank you very much. As we run out of time, I'll mention also on the IRS Dirty Dozen scam lists, there's fake charities, identity theft, overstated withholding schemes. Last question. If someone's been the victim of a tax scam and ended up losing money, what recourse do they have for getting that money back? Any?

Kelly Phillips Erb: Probably not. I've worked with a lot of scammers, and I've talked to a lot of law enforcement. Usually, if the money goes missing, if it's within 24 hours, it's already out of the country, but I would say two things. One, be sure and report it anyway. Again, it's really important that law enforcement has the same kind of access to patterns that the scammers have. You want to make sure you report it. If there is a chance that you could get the money back, that's going to be your best way to report it really quickly. Don't let time go by because that 24-hour window is super important.

Then secondly, one thing that some folks might not recognize is that when you are a victim of a scam, especially older people who are often talked into removing lots of money from retirement accounts, you're also creating a tax problem because those are taxable withdrawals. Same thing if you sell something to pay a scammer. You're creating a tax problem. Fortunately, there is some relief available from IRS from those tax bills that result from a scheme or a scam. Not all states have the same kind of relief, so you still could be on the hook in your state for a tax problem that's been triggered by a scammer.

The other thing to keep in mind, especially for older persons, is that if you pull out a lot of money in one year because you've been scammed, it can actually increase your income for purposes of Medicare premiums. You can actually end up having your Medicare premium kicked up. It's really important, if you think you've been a target of a scammer, to reach out to people, reach out to law enforcement, reach out to your tax and legal professionals. Let your family know what happened. I know when these things happen, you're often embarrassed and you don't want to tell people because you'd feel like people will make fun. They will not. They will help you. It's better to get help fast rather than wait.

Brian Lehrer: Kelly Phillips Erb, tax attorney, senior writer at Forbes, and author of the blog, Taxgirl. Thanks for being part of our Cybersecurity Series.

Kelly Phillips Erb: Thank you so much for having me.

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