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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. WNYC's Nancy Solomon joins us now with excerpts from her Ask Governor Murphy call-in last night, and to take some of your questions and comments. She does that call-in once a month with the governor, and usually comes on with us the next morning. One of the big topics last night, federal budget cuts, and what they could mean for New Jersey, especially, for Medicaid.

Caller from Toms River shared her fears about how cuts could threaten care for her disabled sister. Murphy put the blame on Washington, saying a few key Congressional votes could make all the difference. We'll talk about that.

Also, on the agenda, New Jersey's primary ballot redesign. Murphy signed a bill meant to change the way ballots are structured to make it more fair to all the candidates, but some advocates are saying it doesn't go far enough. School funding cuts came up, too, along with housing affordability. When does that not come up? The I-80 sinkhole that's still causing major headaches. Did your car fall in? Hey, Nancy, Happy Thursday.

Nancy Solomon: Hi, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: Before we get to new business, a little bit of old business. Being the ethical journalist that you are, I know you wanted to come on and correct something that you said inaccurately when you were on after Ask Governor Murphy last month. What's that?

Nancy Solomon: Yes. [chuckles] Thank you. I said that federal funding for New Jersey Transit was $300,000 a month. I was wrong. It's $300 million a month from the federal government for New Jersey transit. Yes. I missed a few zeros there.

Brian Lehrer: Couldn't they run a whole NJ transit system on $300 million a month? Yet, we know how good, and not good it is.

Nancy Solomon: I can't answer that one. I don't know. I'm not going to freelance on it.

Brian Lehrer: Yes, but what--[crosstalk]

Nancy Solomon: I think when I was talking last month, I remember making my notes and thinking, "Should I go back and check that number?" I thought, because it could have-- Didn't he say $300 million? I thought, "There's no way it's $300 million a month." I didn't check the math, and now I'm sorry.

Brian Lehrer: Yes. The implication is, if they want to cut mass transit funding, so they put it into the automobile infrastructure, or whatever, or into tax cuts. There's a lot at stake for New Jersey. That's really the point, right?

Nancy Solomon: Yes. One of the things I love about the show is that, you really-- I think you also experience this. You take the temperature of where people are at by the calls. During the pandemic, we were flooded with calls about people's unemployment check not arriving, or not being able to get an appointment at the motor vehicles agency. Last night, we had a ton of calls about the impending-- The threat of the federal cuts, particularly around Medicaid, but really, about all sorts of things. People are really nervous and concerned. I think it's interesting each month what we get calls about.

Brian Lehrer: Here's a clip from one of those. Cynthia, from Toms River last night. Here's 30 seconds.

Cynthia: I have a sister who lives in a group home. She's developmentally and physically disabled, and she lives in a group home in Toms River, and it's run by this really wonderful nonprofit that works very closely with Medicaid to provide for her survival. I'm very concerned about all of these threats to Medicaid. I keep hearing people say, "Oh, they're not going to target the disabled, they're not going to target X, Y, Z." I don't feel confident in that.

Brian Lehrer: And here's part of Governor Murphy's response to Cynthia.

Governor Murphy: If the three Republican members of our House delegation were to vote against the continuing resolution yesterday, the budget reconciliation against Medicaid cuts, the margin in the House of Representatives is so narrow, if all we got were those three representatives to vote the other way, none of this would happen. In many respects, that's my best piece of advice is to plead, because I know the Democrats are all going to vote against certainly any egregious-- I would bet any cuts to Medicaid, but the Republican Party right now is largely voting as a block, and that includes the three New Jersey representatives.

Brian Lehrer: Nancy, we should say, we don't know how that's going to turn out. The timing of the particular budget measure that could implement deep cuts to Medicaid is still months away. Did the governor outline any backup plan for the state, if these cuts go through? Because that's one of the things we've covered on the show already. One of the ways they might cut Medicaid, is by reducing the federal contribution. Then, states, if they want to maintain the same benefits, would have to pick up the difference.

Nancy Solomon: Right. He basically said, the state can't pick up the difference, that it just doesn't have the resources to do that. Let me back up just a little bit, and explain a little bit about Medicaid. We don't have to get into it too deeply, but there are 1.9 million people in New Jersey who rely on Medicaid. There are two groups. There's the traditional Medicaid which the federal government funds at 50%, but then the most critical funding is for what was called the Medicaid expansion, that was part of the post Obamacare deal to get states to join Obamacare.

Then, they got federal funding for it to expand Medicaid. The portion of federal funding for that part of the program is 90%. There's 776,000 people, hopefully, I'm getting my numbers right, who rely on the Medicaid expansion. What the governor said last night is, that 90%, that expansion, those people who rely on it, the state can't pick that up. It's got to be federal funding.

The state just doesn't have the resources to do that. I mean, obviously, these are budget priority choices, but I think, so that's why he offered up what he saw is really the only thing he can offer, which is a political way to deal with this, that New Jerseyans need to get on the phone with their Republican members of Congress. The three that he mentioned, and there are only three, and make this a political priority to save Medicaid.

I thought it was interesting that he took that tack. It was also interesting that Cynthia, the caller, her sister is in a Toms River group home. Toms River is in Chris Smith, longtime Republican in New Jersey's district. He said it really clearly to her. He said, "You need to call that office, and make them understand how this is going to impact you and your family."

Brian Lehrer: We are with WNYC's Nancy Solomon. After her monthly Ask Governor Murphy call-in last night. Ask Nancy Solomon at 212-433-WNYC, or make a comment, of course. 212-433-9692. Call or text. I see a caller from Voorhees last night also asked about the impact of federal layoffs. We know a lot of federal workers are being laid off right now.

Murphy admitted the state can't absorb a big wave of job losses.

Remind us, I think you mentioned this last month, roughly, how many federal workers live in New Jersey, or are employed in New Jersey by federal government offices? Do we know how many are being laid off, or likely to be laid off? Did the governor offer anything concrete for how the state plans to support those workers?

Nancy Solomon: Yes, there's a huge number. I don't think there have been any estimates about how many in New Jersey will be laid off? I'm reluctant to go on my memory. I think it was 90,000 federal employees in the state, but I-- Don't hold me to that one.

Brian Lehrer: I think I saw about 90,000, but I can look it up, but between New York and New Jersey, approximately 90,000.

Nancy Solomon: It's a lot. [chuckles]

Brian Lehrer: That's a lot. That could be a few tens of thousands of layoffs.

Nancy Solomon: That doesn't include non-federal employees who rely on federal grants, so New Jersey has a lot of biomedical research. The pharmaceutical industry is basically based in the state largely, and Rutgers University relies on a ton of federal money, but somebody doing medical research at Rutgers isn't going to be classified as a federal employee, so the impacts are huge.

I mean, this is what we have a federal government for. They can fund very expensive things that are for the public good, so I think that's where a lot of this stress is coming from. The governor, he didn't really have an answer to the caller from Voorhees about, "What can be done?" I mean, there is unemployment insurance, but other than that, he didn't have much of an answer.

He went right back to the idea that people need to start pressuring these three Republican Congress people. The point he makes is, the votes in the House are very, very-- The margin is so small that those three votes that come out of New Jersey could really make the difference in whether some of this stuff gets stopped.

Brian Lehrer: I just looked this up, by the way, on the New Jersey government website, and it says, "New Jersey's labor force includes approximately 50,000 federal employees, according to the most recent quarterly census of employment and wages produced by the Bureau of Labor Statistics." There's that number. Now, let's talk about ballot redesign.

Before we get into Murphy's take, let's start with the basics. This may not sound the earth shaking issue that some of the other things we've been talking about today are, but it matters. New Jersey's primary ballots have been structured differently from almost every other state. Can you explain how the old system work worked? Why critics called it unfair? I know the new senator, Senator Kim, had something to do with getting it reformed, but what this law actually changes?

Nancy Solomon: Yes, sure. I mean, I think this is super important, because it's about our democracy, and it's about-- It's not necessarily a partisan issue, but it is particularly problematic in a state where one party, the Democrats have so much more power, because it's just largely a blue state, and so we have one party rule. What you want, when you have such a powerful party in the state, is you want competitive primaries.

This is all about the primary ballot. What New Jersey has had up till now, is a ballot in which all the candidates who are in endorsed by the county party organization are listed all together. Typically, what you would see on your ballot is you would have a line that starts with the top Democrat running in the election. It could be Cory Booker or it could be the governor, or in smaller year elections, it could be your local congressperson.

The voter sees a name that they recognize, and then all the-- They go-- It goes in order of most important to least important down the list, to the most local races where people generally don't recognize the names of those people, but they vote down the line, because it's like, "Oh, these are the legitimate Democrats. These are the people I support." What that does is, it gives a huge advantage to everyone who's able to get those endorsements, and run on what people refer to as the line.

The way every other state in the country does it, including New York, is that it's called an office-block ballot, where for that particular office, whether it's governor, senator, Congress, mayor, you see every candidate, and in the primary from the party that you're registered in, you see every candidate, and you make your choice. That's considered a fairer ballot. The governor has opposed reforming the system, and so that's what all this is about.

Yes, it does. Andy Kim went up against Tammy Murphy, the governor's wife, to replace Bob Menendez in the Senate election last year. The first week of Tammy Murphy's announcement, every major county party, Democratic organization in the state came out with their chairman, or chairwoman supporting her and endorsing her, so that she would have the line.

Kim sued and was able to get an injunction to stop it. The judge has telescoped that he's very likely. There was already a lawsuit that's been going on for a couple years. The judge seems quite poised to get rid of the system. Then, the state legislature jumps in and says, "Well, yes, we're going to reform it." These are the people who benefit from the line, and the reform really leaves a lot to be desired.

Brian Lehrer: Yes. Governor Murphy originally opposed Andy Kim's lawsuit to change the system, but when the bill came to Murphy's desk, he did sign it. Here's what he said about it last night.

Governor Murphy: I didn't run for governor to deal with ballot design. It was never, and it's--

Nancy Solomon: I think I can vouch for that.

Governor Murphy: Yes, [laughs] you have enough history with me. Secondly, I saw the benefits, so why did I sign it? This went through a real process. Elected officials, both sides of the aisle, seven public hearings. I have to respect that overwhelming support, as I mentioned, on both sides of the aisle.

Brian Lehrer: As you said, a lot of people see the reform as leaving a lot to be desired. Progressive groups like New Jersey's Working Families are calling this a missed opportunity for real reform. You challenged Murphy on whether the bill was just an end run around what might have been the judge's ruling. Here's how that exchange went.

Nancy Solomon: Is it not important how we elect people, and whether we have fair ballots? I mean, come on. It's important. [crosstalk] We can disagree, but you got to at least admit that it's an important issue.

Governor Murphy: Okay, so it's an important issue, but I started in a place where I think it was working. I then say, "Okay, you know what? If folks want to go down this road." By the way, a federal judge came in and said, "New Jersey has." We do what judges tell us to do.

Nancy Solomon: I think there's a perception that the bill makes an end run around the judge's order, and that it looks reform, but it doesn't go far enough, because it's still allowing candidates to group together instead of everybody who's running for one office being grouped together, which is the way the rest of the country does it.

Governor Murphy: Yes, I just don't. I don't.

Nancy Solomon: Okay.

Brian Lehrer: What are you thinking listening back to that?

Nancy Solomon: [laughs] Well, I feel like I held my own a little bit better than I remembered it. [chuckles] This is-- I mean, come on. Governor Murphy is a very wealthy man who was able to use the county line, the endorsement system to become governor. Part of what we didn't play there that he says is, "Look, the progress progressives are mad at me because I'm not interested in changing the way ballots are done. I think they work fine. Haven't I been a good, progressive governor for eight years? I mean, shouldn't people just be happy with that?"

It's like, "Well, okay, you've done some good things, but we need competitive primary elections in our state." That's-- He just will not ever go there to admit that he benefited from the system. That has to be part of why he has no stomach for changing it. He just-- It's not important to him, and he doesn't want to bite his allies in the party who are very committed to this.

I wish I'd gone a little farther with him about that, but because he made donations to the county party organizations before he got those endorsements, so it's a little unseemly for him to not at least acknowledge that this system is a problem.

Brian Lehrer: Let's take a call before we leave the ballot design issue from Jim in Spring Lake, who is calling about that. Hi, Jim, you're on WNYC.

Jim: Hi, Brian. Thanks for having me. Nancy, you cannot talk about this enough. You need to be shouting it from the rooftops. I was a Congressional candidate in New Jersey's 4th district back in the 2018 cycle. I was up against the line in three different counties. We still almost pulled it off, getting 43% of the vote, despite the corruption and the power of that line.

You are 100% right that the governor does not want to touch this issue. I was at a conference before I launched that campaign, and one of the operatives from his campaign started talking to me, and the guy probably had too many drinks to be talking shop and said, "Yes, Murphy just went around, and he bought up the lines in all these counties, and that's how we're going to win the race."

Most voters in New Jersey don't understand why the ballot structure is important. They don't understand the power the county line has held. They're not paying attention to the fact, because of all of the things we've got swirling in our body politic right now, that the legislature is trying to rebuild the line through the legislative process. You are 100% correct that Murphy is abjectly silent on it, because he benefited from it, and he used that corrupt system to buy the governorship.

Brian Lehrer: Nancy, any thoughts?

Nancy Solomon: Yes, thanks for your call. I mean, I feel a certain amount of constraint about how much I talk about the line on the show because, it would be different if we got a ton of calls, and we did get a bunch of calls during-- I mean, it really blew up during the Andy Kim, Tammy Murphy primary fight. It blew up for good reasons. That's when I felt like, "Oh, people listening, really want to hear about this, really want to talk about it."

Each month I respond to, I can see the calls we're getting. I know what-- It just, to me, it informs me about what it is people want to hear the governor about. I get very nervous about pushing what could be perceived as my own agenda. Even though, this is a nonpartisan issue, this is about democracy, and I feel like I can voice my opinion about things that are pro democracy.

For me, it's like a monthly struggle. Yes, it's a big issue. I think, really, it's going to have to-- It looked like maybe the court case would be resolved quickly through this process, but I think now the lawyers fighting this case are very, very good. They're very smart, and I think they're just going to make sure that legally these-- The ballots get cleaned up and a better process will exist, but it could take another year or two.

Brian Lehrer: Mary in Union county are on WNYC. Hi, Mary.

Mary: Yes. Hi, good morning. All right. You were just speaking about how the states would not be able to pay the extra money if the funds get cut for Medicaid. Are we overlooking the fact that, for eight years the corporations and the billionaires and the trillionaires had tax cuts for eight years, and now Donald Trump and the rest of them are pushing for another 10 years of tax cuts?

Couldn't the states use that money that they're giving away to the billionaires and trillionaires and Musk also, isn't he getting tax cuts? Couldn't the states use that money to help their own citizens? Another thing, if Donald Trump admires the way Putin runs his country, I think that he should move over to Russia.

Brian Lehrer: Mary, thank you very much. Yes, go ahead. On Medicaid.

Nancy Solomon: I mean, I think the governor would agree with Mary that this is a problem. [crosstalk]

Brian Lehrer: That Trump should move to Russia? Oh, no. Go on. [chuckles]

Nancy Solomon: No. [chuckles] I think he would agree that the tax cuts are a problem. He did increase taxes in a small but significant way on New Jersey corporations, and on people who earn more than a million dollars a year, and even more on people who earn more than $5 million a year. I think it's fair enough to say that he did his part for the state of New Jersey in terms of trying to make the tax system more fair. That's what he ran on.

That has been his, as they say, the cliché is his North Star, for these eight years. He would speak very passionately in support of what Mary's talking about. I think, again, it comes back to-- It's really a political question, and it's a question of how New Jersey voters are going to try to influence what Congress does, because really that's-- I mean, for now, we have that check on the presidential power.

It's unclear how long that check on power is going to last. As the governor pointed out last night, President Trump is getting a full hundred percent support of the Republican majority in Congress. They're voting as a block. They're not breaking ranks. That is an issue that he would like to see the voters of New Jersey take up and fight.

Brian Lehrer: Last thing in our last minute, the governor declared a state of emergency over the massive I-80 sinkhole. He visited the site last weekend. I see. What's the latest timeline on repairs? Did he say how much longer drivers are going to be stuck dealing with detours?

Nancy Solomon: Yes, this is just an amazing story. It's a massive sinkhole on I-80, which is the major artery east, west out of this region to travel west across the country, and a major artery just within the state of New Jersey. He went and visited on Saturday, and he said that they're doing everything they can to get this patched up, but it's not a simple matter of just filling in a hole.

Apparently, this area where we had was a huge mining area a century ago. There are more than 90, what are called voids underground in that area. I'm unclear whether the 90, I think some of them aren't necessarily under I-80, but there are lots that are, and so they can't just fill this hole. They need to figure out what to do with this area that has eroded under the surface.

Yes, it's interesting. For now, eastbound traffic on 80 has to divert into the town of Wharton, get off and get back on, and it's causing huge traffic jams, and it's not a good situation.

Brian Lehrer: WNYC's Nancy Solomon, she hosts the Ask Governor Murphy call-in once a month, and usually comes on with us the next morning. Talk to you in April, if not before.

Nancy Solomon: Thanks, Brian. Good to talk to you.

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