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Brian Lehrer: On WNYC, and we're going to end today with one of our occasional call-ins of ambivalence, this time on the question of having kids. Every now and then, we invite listeners to call in and tell us about things you're generally torn about. Almost every day, there's some news story about how having children is a decision more and more people are delaying or foregoing, right? Today, we're inviting you to share your inner conflict on the air.

Why are you or why were you on the fence about becoming a parent recently? Talk us through your pros and cons in your own reasoning, even if you've landed by now. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. Because our news-oriented segments went a little long today, we've only got about 10 minutes for this, so call right in, and you'll get right on. You can get right to the point about what made you or what is making you ambivalent about becoming a parent. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692.

This can be about someone close to you. If it's not you yourself, maybe you're the potential grandparent in waiting or just talking to your friends. 212-433-9692. As always, we do these ambivalence call-ins because we want to create space for uncertainty in public when so much of the discourse these days, political and otherwise, is about doubling down and picking sides, being kind of a cult of certainty moment in this country.

We want to hear what it sounds like when people aren't sure. On this issue in particular, less political and more personal, but definitely with political overtones. You know about the "pronatalist movement." You know about fear of what kind of world you're bringing your kids into for climate and other reasons that's also gotten a lot of press. What has driven the ambivalence for you or people you know? 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692, about ambivalence and parenting. Call or text. We'll take those calls and text right after this.

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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Now, to your calls and texts of ambivalence about becoming a parent. Let's see. One listener writes, "I am a 34-year-old woman. I would like to be a parent. Our combined household income is over $200,000 a year, but I can't imagine how we can afford a child in New York City, where we both grew up." Another listener writes, "My nephew and his wife will not have kids while Trump is president."

Another listener writes, I should say this was what I'm about to reference was one of the inspirations for this call-in. Listener writes, "You might have caught the opinion piece in The Times this weekend that blamed therapy culture for more people opting out of parenting. Would love some discussion on that perspective." Part of that, I think, was therapy is so focused on how your parents messed you up that people are like, "I don't want to be in that position. I'm just going to mess up somebody else." Alice in Ditmas Park, you're on WNYC. Hi, Alice.

Alice: Hi, Brian. Thank you for taking my call. I am grandmother age. I have a 37-year-old daughter, who's about to get married actually. She has made the decision not to have children primarily because of the climate crisis. She's concerned about clean air, clean water, all of the desperate emergencies in terms of wildfire, in terms of flooding. The migrant crisis that is a result of the climate crisis. She's devastated by the fact that so much of our ecosystem is collapsing that there's a great extinction on the way, on the march. She doesn't want her children to grow up in a world without lions or elephants. [chuckles] She's very saddened by that.

Brian Lehrer: There is an argument, I wonder if you've heard your daughter address it, that, yes, obviously, climate change is real and it's going to have effects, but it's not like it's going to be an apocalypse, certainly not in Brooklyn. This is the argument. Let's not avoid having children because of climate change. Let's have the children you might otherwise want to have, but advocate for policies that will manage climate change. I'm just curious if that's ever come up with your daughter.

Alice: It's come up all the time. I remind my daughter that when I was young, rivers were on fire in this country, that we had acid rain, and that there are always people out there who are trying to mitigate these problems. We are also living in an age, certainly, under this administration, where they are doing everything to roll that back, where they're trying to open up federal lands for pipelines and drilling, and where they are anti-wind power and solar power. They're all "burn, baby, burn." She just doesn't see a political future in the immediate term. As I say, she's 38 years old, so there is a time element. Also, she just really fears for the healthcare industry in this country, the expense of health insurance.

Brian Lehrer: Alice, thank you very much for your call, yes. Other people are writing, even others with six-figure incomes. I read that other one that I wonder how some of you reacted to. If somebody saying they make over $200,000 a year, I think between the two members of the couple, but still aren't sure if they can afford to raise a kid in New York where they don't want to leave.

Another one writes, "I always imagined myself having children. Then when I finally had recovered from graduating into a busted job industry in 2008 and gained some stability, the world seemed to fall apart all at once, starting with Trump. Every day, I'm reading about a new climate disaster and watching the world at large turn toward fascism, and it goes on. I do not know how I can bring a child into this world, where they are seemingly going to have a perpetually deteriorating quality of life." Sorry. Judith in the Bronx, you're on WNYC. Hi, Judith.

Judith: Hi. Good morning. Yes, I had two children via IVF. I am in my late 30s. I find that my peers, who are also waiting to have babies, they hear my stories of how difficult it was to get pregnant via IVF. That turns them off even more. They're now in a mindset of, "If it happens, it happens." Based on how difficult and unreliable IVF can be, I'm not going to go that route either. There's that ambivalence, plus the cost, because, honestly, in your late 30s, it's hard to find someone who hasn't gotten pregnant or tried to get pregnant via IVF, is my experience as a New Yorker living in 2025.

Brian Lehrer: Judith, thank you for chiming in. We appreciate it. Listener texts, "As a millennial parent of three who are under five, yes, I'm tired. This conversation is exhausting. Our ancestors lived in caves and tried not to get eaten by bears. It's always been hard being a human. Have kids if you want to. If you don't, do those kids a favor and don't have them." I guess that listener is arguing not for any pressure to have kids. If you feel an impulse to have kids, don't let the difficulty of being alive these days dissuade you, at least according to that person. Let's see. Can we get in one more? I think Sydney in Long Beach, hi, but we have 30 seconds for you. Hi.

Sydney: Hey, 30 seconds. All I wanted to chime in is what you stated about-- the fraction of a lot of people making salaries, I think it's going to be downsized. A lot of people are not even going to have their people place in school no more. They're going to start taking advantage of a lot of these online schools. I think school is going to be defunct within probably a five-year period.

I think a lot of kids gravitate into the tech space into a lot of these. That's going to cut a lot, of course. The ambivalence of that is that when you look at that and you project that in five years because a lot of kids, like I stated, when we went through the pandemic, off school, they really dug into their laptops. That's really close conflicted if you really want--

Brian Lehrer: Sydney, I have to cut you off. I'm sorry because we're out of time in this segment. I'll sneak in one more tiny, little clip, a text, but from someone who raises another important issue that should be stated. It says, "I have a friend who is afraid because she lives in an anti-abortion state. Stories like Adriana Smith in Georgia don't help allay fears." You can look that one up. Thanks for all your calls on your ambivalence about having kids.

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