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Brian Lehrer: It's the Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning, everyone. Well, here's a story we never expected to begin our show with today. Our New York City journalism colleague, Katie Honan, many of you know her, political reporter for the nonprofit news organization The City, revealed that a close aide to Mayor Adams, currently a campaign confidant, as they call her, gave Katie a wad of cash buried in a bag of potato chips. I did say a wad of cash buried in a bag of potato chips, after Katie reported on the opening of the mayor's latest campaign office in Harlem. Some of you may be regular readers of Katie's work, or might remember that she was one of the three moderators of the recent mayoral primary debate that Katie, and Errol Louis from New York 1, and I all moderated back in June.

Well, Katie is here now to describe this unusual turn of events for herself. Hi, Katie. Always good to have you on the show. I never expected it would be under these circumstances, but welcome back to WNYC.

Katie Honan: Me neither, Brian. Thanks for having me on.

Brian Lehrer: Want to start at the beginning, you were reporting on the mayor's campaign office opening in Harlem on Wednesday--

Katie Honan: Yes, yesterday.

Brian Lehrer: And?

Katie Honan: I was reluctant to go because I didn't know if it would be newsworthy, but my editor said, "Oh, you might as well go," so I went uptown from City Hall. I've seen Winnie at every campaign event I've attended, and I always talk to her [crosstalk]--

Brian Lehrer: You'll tell a little of the story, and then we'll back up and talk about who is this person, who is Winnie Greco. But go ahead with the narrative.

Katie Honan: Yes. I've seen Winnie at every campaign event I've attended, and I always chat with her, and she's always very friendly with me. She always says, "We'll talk, we'll talk," which for a reporter, that's sort of all I care about, is the promise of eventually maybe getting a story from Winnie on the many years she's known Eric Adams in his inner circle. I saw her yesterday at the start of the event, she said, "Oh, we'll talk later." Then at the end of the event, actually I was walking with another reporter when I spotted her across the street. I said, "Oh, look, there's Winnie again," because she resigned from City Hall last year. Her two homes were raided in the Bronx almost two years ago. Resigned in this wave of resignations last fall after she had taken an extended medical leave following the FBI raid of her homes, so to me, it's noteworthy that she's still really involved in the campaign.

She texted me, and I don't text with her often-- I just texted her once when I got her number that this was me-- and told me to meet her across the street. We went to the Whole Food, I didn't go into a bank with her. When I saw her near the bank, I thought she just went in there to take cover from the rain. She immediately handed me this bag of chips and insisted that I take it. I said at least three times like, "No, it's okay. I don't want the chips. I don't want the chips." We spoke for a few minutes, and then we left. When I walked to the subway right outside the Whole Foods, that's when I opened the bag. I initially hoped it was a piece of information or something, which every reporter wants, a scoop in an envelope or something, but it was money.

Brian Lehrer: So, you had a suspicion even before you opened the bag that she wasn't just giving you chips to give you chips, that there was something else in the bag?

Katie Honan: Oh, no, I didn't realize until I looked at the open bag. Because the bag was open, which I also found odd. It was kind of crumpled closed. When I opened it, in that split second, I hoped it was information, and then I realized it was money, and then I really started to panic. That was the rest of my day [crosstalk]--

Brian Lehrer: How much, and in what denominations?

Katie Honan: We didn't count it. I was afraid to count it on the street, and then I found it wise to no longer touch it. But it was at least one $100 bill, and a lot of $20 bills in an envelope that I've seen at Lunar New Year and Mid-Autumn festival events. When friends have hosted these events, the kids get envelopes with money and stuff, so I know the cultural significance of it, but I didn't know why she gave it to me.

Brian Lehrer: What did you do when you discovered the money?

Katie Honan: I immediately called my editor, and he didn't pick up right away, which I was joking with him about. Then I called her and I said, "If you're still in Whole Foods, I cannot accept this. I need to give this back to you. This is really serious." Then when I did speak with my editor a few minutes later, I just came to the office and, you know-- I did text her that I couldn't keep the money, snd that was sort of what started it. We notified the authorities and who, I believe, DOI is still looking into what she did when she was working in the administration. And I think the timing of this all right now, within the last hour, four more indictments naming Ingrid Lewis-Martin, a former aide to Mayor Adams, and not just an aide, but a close friend, someone who she's referred to as brother and he's referred to as sister.

She's named in four additional indictments, and looking briefly at the statement of facts from the DA's office, DA Bragg's office, it is just-- The allegations of money exchanging for favors, for permits, money at Gracie Mansion, so the timing of receiving this, it felt almost cinematic, but unfortunately, it's real.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, does anyone have a question about Katie Honan's shocking encounter with Adams' campaign confidant and former liaison to the Asian American New York Community, Winnie Greco? 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692, call or text. Or the larger context of the state of the Adams campaign and the state of Adams' world with respect to the law and allegations of financial impropriety, should we call it, that were leveled yesterday against Ingrid Lewis-Martin, a very close aide, and now this coming on top of that, coincidentally or not. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692.

Katie, this has not been a good week for Mayor Adams and his campaign with these two stories. We also talked on yesterday's show about the failures of the administration in preventing the Legionnaires' disease outbreak that has killed multiple people in Harlem. And we described the audio tape that another one of our colleagues in New York journalism from Politico brought of Andrew Cuomo at a campaign event over the weekend, predicting that Adams would drop out of the race by September 15th. Not a good week for the Eric Adams campaign.

Katie Honan: No, and I'm thinking of the leaked audio reported by The Daily News with First Deputy Mayor Randy Mastro urging the Department of Probation to get her agency in line, so it has not been a good week for the Adams administration. I'm sure they will just blame the wicked, evil reporters covering them. In reading the statement of facts from these four separate indictments, it's interesting how familiar so much of it is because it has previously been reported in so many outlets, whether it's my own, The City, whether it's Daily News, Politico, amNewYork, Gothamist, WNYC. All this stuff has been reported, and usually, we are told we're awful people for reporting it, but I guess we were right all along.

Brian Lehrer: Winnie Greco did not deny that the cash was packed in with the chips. What did she say?

Katie Honan: What she told my colleague, Greg, who reported the story-- You know, I didn't want to do a first-person on this. It felt serious enough that someone else should write it from our outlet, but she said it was a cultural thing, and that's what people do as a gesture of friendship. I can understand the cultural context of it, but she was a city employee for two years, and I know, or I presume they receive ethics training. Even though she's no longer a city employee, it was probably explained at some point, or at least it should have been, that she shouldn't give anyone who she's talking to an envelope of cash inside a bag of chips. You know, this wasn't a wedding, this wasn't Lunar New Year. It made no sense to give that to me.

Brian Lehrer: Yes, and your news organization, The City, did do what you were just indicating, and I would agree, it was the professional thing, you did not write the story about this. It was written by two of your colleagues, Greg Smith and Yoav Gonen, with the headline, "Eric Adams Advisor Winnie Greco Handed a City Reporter," you "Cash Stuffed in a Bag of Potato Chips." They contacted her, and I guess the quotes-- or did you contact her? But the quotes that they have here included, "I just wanted to be her friend. I just wanted to have one good friend. It's nothing." She said, "Can we forget about this? I try to be a good person. Please, please, please don't do in the news nothing about me." And she said, "I'm so sorry, it's a culture thing. I don't know, I don't understand. I'm so sorry. I feel so bad right now. I'm so sorry, honey," she said to you--

Katie Honan: To Greg. That was to Greg, just to clarify

Brian Lehrer: Oh, that was to Greg.

Katie Honan: Yes.

Brian Lehrer: She called him honey. [chuckles] I mean, there are different things in there, and maybe from what you've described already, they do fit together, but on the surface, they look like different excuses. One is, "It's a cultural thing." Another is, "I just wanted to be her friend. I just wanted to have one good friend."

Katie Honan: Yes. It's just unfortunate that she did that, and I don't know her full intent. Nothing was shared with me before to ask for anything favorable, and it just put me in a bad spot.

Brian Lehrer: Yes. Her attorney, Steven Brill, said to your news organization, "I can see how this looks strange, but I assure you that Winnie's intent was purely innocent." Then he hangs it on a cultural thing. He says, "In the Chinese culture, money is often given to others in a gesture of friendship and gratitude. Winnie is apologetic and embarrassed by any negative impression or confusion this may have caused." I wonder if any Chinese-American listeners have a reaction to attorney Steven Brill or Winnie Greco herself hanging this on Chinese culture. Does this ring true to you? Maybe you'll put this in a slightly more benign light because you know something about that to be true, or maybe the opposite. Chinese-Americans, 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692.

Though, as you say, Katie, you imagine that somebody in the kinds of positions with respect to the mayor that she's been in would have gotten basic ethics training that would have made it clear from the start of her association that this is not the kind of thing that you do. Do you have any indication that Mayor Adams was aware that Winnie Greco did this or anything like this in the past?

Katie Honan: I can't imagine Mayor Adams would ever want anyone to give me anything, so I can't imagine he was involved, but I don't know. I mean, everything is a big question for us--

Brian Lehrer: Yes, and not just to you.

Katie Honan: Yes, to anyone. I don't know if she's done this in the past. We've reported extensively on Winnie and what appeared to be straw donations centering around the New World Mall, and now that comes into play again today because the co-owner of the mall is named in one of the indictments that also names Ingrid Lewis-Martin. So again, nothing exists independently, especially with this administration. Everything's connected, and the timing of everything-- Again, her doing this yesterday and then these additional indictments coming today, which appear to be money-related and bribery-related, it just-- I don't know who else she's given it to. I can't imagine she's ever done it with a reporter and they wouldn't respond the same way I did, but there's a lot of questions about how prevalent this is.

Brian Lehrer: Lisa in Manhattan has a question. Lisa, you're on WNYC with Katie Honan. Hello.

Lisa: Hey, Katie. This reminds me of the 2009 arrest in New Jersey where one bribe of-- I think it was $97,000, was stuffed into an Apple Jacks box, and now we've got bribes in a potato chips bag, and so I'm just wondering what next. Is it going to be a spaghetti box or something like that? But Katie, as I joked yesterday, you got a $100 bill and a bunch of 20's and all that, and a bag of chips, so--

Katie Honan: I didn't eat the chips, and I don't think I could eat a sour cream and onion chip ever again.

Brian Lehrer: I mean, never mind an open bag of chips that maybe somebody else's germs are in, but maybe I'm just being a germophobe.

Katie Honan: No, I think you're not wrong.

Brian Lehrer: Listener texts, "What does Katie think was the purpose of the money transfer?"

Katie Honan: I don't know. I don't want to do a jump to what the intention could be. I kind of just wanted to get rid of it very quickly. Maybe there is some truth to it that she didn't mean anything nefarious by it, but it was inappropriate at the very least, so that was sort of enough for me to just freak out as I did and just try to get rid of it.

Brian Lehrer: I see your news organization reported this incident to law enforcement. Are they investigating it as something potentially criminal?

Katie Honan: That's my understanding. They are looking into it, because I know that there have been-- She was never charged or indicted with anything. Her homes were raided almost two years ago, but it's not necessarily closed. You know, a lot of these investigations that emerged within the Adams administration-- My colleague Greg Smith wrote earlier this week about the Banks brothers; Philip Banks, David Banks, and Terence Banks, and he got confirmation that they are still-- these investigations are not over, so I think it's in line with what we've seen with the Adams administration and many people who he brought on and then defended aggressively when we would bring reporting showing perhaps some issues or some concerns about their ethics or anything else. Eric Adams repeatedly defended them. That's what we saw with Philip Banks and David Banks, and what Greg was reporting, that their brother Terence, who no longer worked in government, and perhaps the access he received with helping clients who wanted to get contracts. That is what we have, it's sort of all in line with this Adams world.

Brian Lehrer: Right. You want to tell us a little bit more about the actual story you were reporting yesterday? You had a byline on Eric Adams aides and donors expected to be indicted by Manhattan DA, and of course, you were just describing that to some degree. It starts, "Ex senior advisor to the mayor, Ingrid Lewis-Martin, faces anticipated influence-peddling charges alongside official Jesse Hamilton and mayoral donors who rolled back a Brooklyn road safety project," so what's the charge? This charge did come, right?

Katie Honan: Yes. At this point, it's four additional indictments in addition to the indictment she received. She was indicted months ago for-- that was the alleged bribery involving a Porsche and her son. She's named in four more, so that's what I was working on yesterday a little bit. But actually, I had to finish my summer newsletter, which comes out today, and I urge all listeners to go to thecitty.nyc and sign up. I had to finish that this morning. It was a switch of what I was doing yesterday, writing about summer in New York City. That's what I was really working on, but it did really derail the day, unfortunately.

Brian Lehrer: I guess so. All right I'm going to let Beth in Brooklyn ask the question that I was resisting asking, but that I know a lot of people are wondering. Beth, you're on WNYC. Hi.

Beth: Hey, how's it going? Yes, Beth in Brooklyn here. I was just wondering what kind of chips were they? It's a Cool Ranch Dorito situation, or a classic Frito. I'm just always chasing the crunch, so I want to know what to crunch on today. [chuckles[

Katie Honan: They were Herr's Sour Cream and Onion, but like the ridged chips. Like a ruffle, but I guess that might be a brand name. Yes, the ridged Herr's Sour Cream and Onion.

Brian Lehrer: The actual brand name of the chips being withheld to protect the innocent--

Katie Honan: No, Herr's. H-E-R-R-apostrophe-S.

Brian Lehrer: Oh, I thought you meant they belonged to her. Oh, yes, I know [crosstalk]--

Katie Honan: I think the catchphrase is, "Make Herr's yours," if I remember from my commercials.

Brian Lehrer: Another listener who can't resist the sarcasm writes, "The detail about this happening inside Whole Foods is all the more conspicuous because there's no way they even sell that product in Whole Foods." But more seriously, another listener writes, "There is the red pocket custom for giving cash gifts for the Lunar New Year." Someone else wrote, "I'm not Chinese-American, so I'm curious, even if giving money to friends is typical, if it would also be typical to give money to a friend hidden in the bottom of a chips bag?" I think you kind of went over that, that that's sometimes in envelopes. All right, I guess we're going to leave it here. Is there a reaction from Mayor Adams himself? Not just from Winnie Greco and her lawyer.

Katie Honan: His campaign spokesman, Todd Shapiro, said in a statement to us yesterday that she's no longer involved in the campaign at all, but I haven't heard anything from Eric Adams or his staff. I think they're probably very busy going through the four additional indictments from his former top aide, which involves allegations that parties at Gracie Mansion were the result of bribes, and food was donated in exchange for bribes. I'm sure they're going through all that, and maybe they forgot all about this chip stuff yesterday.

Brian Lehrer: Katie Honan from the news organization The City. Good willpower resisting eating the chips, at the very least, znd thank you for coming on and describing this incident.

Katie Honan: No, thank you. One other point I want to make is that this happening, it just distracts from all the work we're trying to do. There's fewer reporters than ever covering City Hall here in New York City, and nonprofit newsrooms like yours and like mine need support, but not given to us in red envelopes, so--

Brian Lehrer: Yes. Thanks, Katie.

Katie Honan: Thank you.

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