Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Later this morning, Mayor Eric Adams is expected to hold his weekly Tuesday news conference. Tomorrow, as usual on Wednesdays, we'll have our lead Eric Adams reporter Elizabeth Kim, who attends those news conferences, usually gets to ask a question and brings us excerpts and analysis, and takes your calls. This week, we're adding a preview segment today because developments have been so fast and furious the last few days around the investigations that are surrounding the mayor and his top deputies. On Thursday, if you haven't heard this yet, the police commissioner resigned. On Saturday, many of you have not heard this yet, the mayor's top legal advisor resigned. The New York Times says resigned abruptly. You can't tell the people being investigated or those coming and going from the administration right now without a scorecard. We thought you might find it useful to hear an explainer about where things stand, the political implications for the mayor, the potential implications for all New Yorkers as the mayor is partly preoccupied with all this, and who some of the people involved are.

With us now and with Liz Kim's blessing, we're not journalistically cheating on her, is Emma Fitzsimmons, the New York Times City hall bureau chief since 2019. Emma, thanks for giving us some pre-news conference time today. Welcome back to WNYC.

Emma Fitzsimmons: Thanks for having me.

Brian Lehrer: Let's just start with Saturday's resignation of chief counsel Lisa Zornberg, not a well known name to the general public. What did her job entail and why did she quit?

Emma Fitzsimmons: She's the mayor's chief legal advisor and she's been a fierce defender of him as he's faced these investigation over the last ten months. I think that her resignation abruptly on a Saturday night was one of the most jarring developments yet in all of these various investigations. We reported that she resigned largely because the mayor was not following her advice on personnel matters.

She has been by his side at these news conferences saying he's not a target of the investigation. We're cooperating with the investigation. The fact that she was done and ready to leave I think was a concerning sign for many people who've been watching these investigations.

Brian Lehrer: You said not follow her advice on personnel matters. Did she want certain people fired?

Emma Fitzsimmons: There's been some reporting in other news outlets that she wanted certain people who are under investigation to leave the administration and we're reporting on that today. I think she had concerns about certain people that elected officials have called on to resign. Jessica Ramos yesterday, who's running for mayor, she called on the mayor to push out both Timothy Pearson and Phil Banks, two of his closest aides.

Brian Lehrer: Phil Banks the deputy mayor for public safety. Remind us who Pearson is.

Emma Fitzsimmons: Pearson is one of the mayor's closest friends. They go back many years and he has a nebulous job in the administration. He's an advisor to the mayor. He's been involved in issues like the migrant crisis, but he's also been accused of sexual harassment and fighting with someone at a migrant center. I think there are people within the administration who feel like if Caban, the police commissioner had to resign, why haven't Pearson and Banks also resigned?

Brian Lehrer: As chief counsel, did Zornberg wanted them fired for legal reasons to protect the mayor or the city legally in some way or because she found them morally objectionable?

Emma Fitzsimmons: It's unclear. We don't know. We just know that up until Saturday, Zornberg was very much in the mayor's corner and defending him publicly. She was at his news conference last week, and she comes from the southern district. She was a former top federal prosecutor so she understands these types of cases. She had a good reputation when she entered the administration. She was known as the tiny tornado. She was known as someone who had a lot of expertise in these areas. Now the mayor is looking for a new chief legal adviser, and he's also looking for a new corporation counsel after Randy Maestro did not get that job following opposition in the city council.

Brian Lehrer: You also report that the mayor was a late no-show yesterday morning, Monday morning, at a politically star-studded Democratic fundraiser. Why was he a no-show?

Emma Fitzsimmons: We're not sure. It appeared that his security detail was in front of the restaurant, but then they left. That happened around the same time that these new charges came out against two fire chiefs. The host of the Brooklyn Democratic fundraiser is one of the mayor's close allies and she told the crowd the mayor can't make it. He's stuck at City Hall. It's an event that the mayor typically would have attended in the past unless he had pressing matters at city hall. It seems like the mayor is focused this week on trying to focus on the achievements of his administration.

He held a news conference yesterday to talk about the mayor's management report, which is something we care about very deeply in room nine but doesn't normally get its own news conference. He was trying to say we are getting rid of illegal mopeds. We're doing things to make the city safer. We're trying to clean up the trash. He said, "I want to write my own story and tell New Yorkers what I'm doing." Today, his office put out a news release about the Rat Summit that he's hosting tomorrow. They're trying to focus back on policy, but at the news conference today, I'm sure most of the questions will be focused on the investigations.

Brian Lehrer: Can they get the rats to come to the summit? Then they'll all be in one place and they-- Never mind. You did write in the Times that all this that's going on is raising doubts about the mayor's ability to focus on his agenda. You just went through some of that. Is there evidence of that actually happening? Certainly at last weeks news conference, he was speaking in front of slides that showed shootings and subway robberies declining to record or near record levels this summer. There are some of the other things that he's touting that you just mentioned. Is there any actual evidence that whether one likes his policies or not, he's being hampered from pursuing his policy agenda?

Emma Fitzsimmons: The mayor says he can do both at the same time, but we had a story in Monday's paper that looked at how some of his agenda could be in jeopardy. I spoke with Alicia Glen, the former deputy mayor under Bill de Blasio, and she said there are lots of great people in city government. The basic services will continue, but it's these larger policy goals. The City of Yes rezoning plan is expected to go before the city council this year, and the mayor is facing a lot of opposition in certain neighborhoods. He needs to have some political capital to get that across the finish line.

Things like trash containerization, which the sanitation department has been very focused on, you're going to have to take away a lot of parking spots, and that often causes an uproar. You need political capital to do some of these difficult things. At the same time, we've spoken with people in the administration who are worried about the investigations who report to people who are under investigation who say that things-- The mayor also had Covid last week, so we had to cancel a bunch of meetings. I think there are people within the administration who feel distracted and worried about what is going to happen next.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners who has a question about what's going on with all these investigations of and around Mayor Adams. 212-433-WNYC. Call or text. The New York Times City hall bureau chief Emma Fitzsimmons is here to explain as much as she can before the mayor's news conference later this morning, where all this is sure to be the main topic with resignations, arrests, and other developments coming almost daily in the last week. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692.

We tried to do a big explainer on the gun laws in segment one today. We're trying to do a real explainer on what's going on around the mayor in segment two with Emma Fitzsimmons from the Times nice enough to join us. 212-433-WNYC with your questions. 212-433-9692. Call or text. These two fire chief arrests yesterday, are they related to any of the other investigations that have seen searches or cell phone seizures of the mayor himself, his school's chancellor, his first deputy mayor, and his deputy mayor for public safety. Are these fire chief arrests related?

Emma Fitzsimmons: They do not appear to be related, but they did take place while Eric Adams was mayor. He tried at the news conference yesterday to say that the alleged corruption began under Mayor Bill de Blasio. He tried to say this actually started under him and continued under me. He said that his fire commissioner, once she learned about some of the allegations reported them. He's trying to distance himself.

I was talking with Jumaane Williams, the city's public advocate. He was at the fundraiser yesterday and he said there's just new allegations of corruption every day under this administration. He said it was the worst municipal corruption scandal since Tammany Hall, and he has not yet called on the mayor to resign. Yesterday, the first city council member to do so, Tiffany Cabán called on the mayor to resign and two state lawmakers have also called on the mayor to resign. I asked him yesterday whether that was a possibility, and he said 700,000 New Yorkers voted for me and I'm going to continue to serve in my job.

Brian Lehrer: We're going to get to the prospect of Jumanne Williams becoming the mayor because as public advocate, under the rules of succession, he would if things got bad enough that Mayor Adams had to resign midterm. In general, Emma I'm sure you agree it's been hard for the general public to tell, and I think even hard for us journalists covering the story to tell what's related and what's not in all this. Where would you start to explain to our listeners if there are just a bunch of individual suspicions or more like a big connected web of possible crimes that the feds are investigating?

Emma Fitzsimmons: We made a graphic on our website to show who's involved in which investigation. I understand it's complicated. It's complicated for me and I've been covering this every day. We believe there are at least four federal investigations. One is focused on his campaign fundraising and is looking at the mayor directly. Those are related to the raids last November of his chief fundraiser.

There is a second inquiry linked to senior city hall aides. That is the one that involves Sheena Wright, the deputy mayor, David Banks, and Philip Banks, two brothers. There was another inquiry that is related to the police commissioner who resigned and his twin brother. Then there are various other legal matters. Prosecutors in Brooklyn are looking at Winnie Greco. Her home was raided. She is the mayor's advisor on Asian affairs and she has returned to city hall and is still working there.

There are a lot of people involved. There's also been some cases related to straw donors regarding the mayor's campaign. We don't really know how this is all going to end until prosecutors take some action or tell us that they're not going to take some action. We just don't know until they show their cards.

Brian Lehrer: We don't even really know what they're looking for.

Emma Fitzsimmons: We have reported on some outlines of some things that are included in the investigations. The one looking at the mayor and his campaign fundraising has examined his ties to Turkish donors. We have some details through our reporting and there's been great reporting from different news outlets trying to figure out what prosecutors are looking at. Yesterday Damian Williams said if you know anything about the things that have been happening within city government that involve wrongdoing, you should let us know.

Brian Lehrer: Damian Williams, the US attorney. Go ahead.

Emma Fitzsimmons: Yes. This idea of they're in this stage of collecting as much information and they've seized all of these phones, they're looking through the phone records for various officials. It is unprecedented to have this many people investigated in one administration. I often speak with Christina Greer, a professor at Fordham, and she says there's a lot of smoke. There's so much smoke that I would want to leave the building. We don't actually have any on-the-record allegations against the mayor.

That's what the mayor has said. He said, "This is all going to prove that I did nothing wrong and I'm just going to try to focus on my job." I have to say that the tone of the news conference yesterday was pretty somber. He had some of his close aides surrounding him on the steps of city hall. I think the mayor, he was elected with a lot of pomp and circumstance. He was viewed as this rising star in the Democratic primary and he's in a really perilous place politically right now.

Brian Lehrer: Jose in Woodside, you're on WNYC. Hi, Jose.

Jose: Hi. Thank you for taking my call. I follow this conversation. I follow the fact that there are all these allegations and they started some time back. The Turkish thing. All of this has started some time back. Yes, there's a lot of smoke and Fox is coming around saying about the chaos in New York City government. I don't see that. I walk the streets, I don't hear anybody talking about this.

I have no sense that there is any interest in the general public about this and yet now they're on this tactic about asking the general public if you know anything, if you've heard anything. This is the same thing they used about sexual harassment against certain politicians and the same thing they've used against other politicians who have resigned and afterwards, nothing was made out of it or just some minor, minor, minor-- Or people came out they said, "Oh, he held my hand too long." It just becomes so, so ridiculous.

Brian Lehrer: Jose, thank you. I want to separate two things that Jose brought up there. One is his implication that a lot of charges of sexual harassment or sexual assault are made up or too flimsy. Really Jose? In fact, the mayor, that's another thing we haven't even mentioned yet, Emma. A listener points this one out in a text. "Let's not forget the sexual assault allegation against the mayor. That's in the Adult Survivors Act lookback period. It's an accusation. It's not proven but somebody brought that up in a civil suit against the mayor and that's also out there.

Emma Fitzsimmons: Yes. I've been doing some reporting on the lawsuit and it's proceeding. The woman who accused the mayor is going to be sitting for a deposition soon. We reported that she talked about what she alleges happened to her, and she wrote two emails about it prior to the Adult Survivors Act happening. I think her legal team will be arguing that this is not something that she just brought up to try to get money out of the mayor, but it's something that she has been talking about for some time. That case is proceeding at the same time. One theory is that that is why the mayor wanted to bring on Randy Maestro to be his corporation counsel to represent him in civil legal matters. Right now he doesn't have a lawyer in either of these top two positions at city hall. I think they're going to announce someone to replace Lisa Zornberg in the coming days and they have a new interim police commissioner. They should announce someone that will be more long-term. It's a lot of turnover and change at the top of the administration.

Brian Lehrer: To Jose in Woodside's larger point, that people aren't talking about this. This is not what's on the minds of New Yorkers. I can tell you and listeners, I mentioned this last Wednesday when we were talking a lot about the investigations with our lead Eric Adams reporter Liz Kim, that nobody was calling, and it's happening again today. Emma, our lines are usually full when we talk about almost any topic in the news that we choose to talk about. We had Jose just now, and there's one other person hanging on, and that's it.

If people in the political insider world are starting to clamor for Adams to resign, a few progressive elected officials have started to call for that, and people in the journalism world and political world are talking about it among ourselves or in this case on the radio, general public is not engaged.

Emma Fitzsimmons: I think New Yorkers care about how the mayor is doing. He has a low approval rating. A lot of that has to do with the budget cuts and certain concerns among New Yorkers over the libraries and schools and homelessness and the migrant crisis. The mayor had a low approval rating prior to these investigations. I think one of the allegations involves a bar owner who said that he was asked to make a payment to make his problems with the NYPD go away. I think that's why prosecutors are asking for the public to come forward. If a bar owner was asked to make this payment to the police commissioner's brother, they want to hear more information about that.

I think New Yorkers care about the mayor and what's happening with him. I also think right now a lot of voters are focused on the November election. I hear that a lot. There is a primary next June for mayor and there's four prominent democrats running in this race. I think after the November election, there will be much more focus on the mayor's race.

Brian Lehrer: I don't know if you heard me just laugh. I wasn't laughing at you. I was laughing because now that we're running out of time, probably because I said what I said, all our lines are starting to. Don't worry, listeners, we're going to be at this again with Elizabeth Kim tomorrow morning because the mayor's going to have his news conference shortly, his weekly Tuesday news conference. Our lead Eric Adams reporter comes on on Wednesdays after those news conferences, as many of you know. You'll get your chance tomorrow.

I will say that the investigations are so vaguely described as we've been discussing, that it's hard for people in the general public to get their minds around them as a big issue for them. All it takes is one really very specific thing to jump out and then the whole conversation chart changes. That's my opinion. Emma, I don't know if you agree. Once people have something to hang their hat on that's really controversial that the mayor did or is accused of doing by law enforcement, then it's a whole other ballgame. Just one last thing I mentioned earlier. If the mayor were to resign, public advocate Jumanne Williams would become mayor under the rules of succession. What's he saying under these circumstances?

Emma Fitzsimmons: He said yesterday that this is the worst municipal corruption scandal since Tammany Hall. He said he was angry. He said he was tired of all the allegations and investigations. I asked him if he was prepared to become mayor. He said no public advocate wants to have to become mayor, but he was prepared to do that if necessary and if he did become acting mayor, he would then have to set a date for a special election within 60 to 90 days, and there would be a special election to replace Adams.

The other option is if these investigations move forward and there are charges brought. There's also the possibility that the mayor could choose not to run for reelection. Jumaane Williams did say that he was prepared if necessary.

Brian Lehrer: A couple of texts that came in to right away about people not calling. It says, "If these things are not top of mind for residents, it's because these are complex legal issues and residents rely on the government's infrastructure to move these forward. We can't all be yelling about everything all the time." You haven't listened to talk radio lately. Another listener writes, "We're too busy with freaking out about the election, but I care and I want Adams out."

Another one writes, "I think the reason you're not getting callers is that corruption is baked into Adams like lying is to Trump." One more person writes, "I'm at work, so I can't call." We will leave that there as the last word for today, and we'll see what the mayor is asked and what he says at today's news conference and pick it up with Liz Kim tomorrow. For today, we thank Emma Fitzsimmons, city hall bureau chief for the New York Times. Emma, thanks so much for your time today.

Emma Fitzsimmons: Thank you.

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