Title: A Guide to Venmo Etiquette

[MUSIC]

Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. To end the show today, have you ever sent a Venmo request that went unpaid or received one for $3.67? Maybe you have a digital debt waiting in your Cash App account from last month that you've completely forgotten about. Does your buddy owe you $50 for movies and dinner last week? Are you nodding your head at that one? What's the etiquette here? How do you manage these transactions in your friendships? What does that say about the nature of that relationship? Call or text us right now at 212-433-WNYC on what we might call Venmo etiquette. 212-433-9692. Joining me with her thoughts on Venmo etiquette is Annabelle Williams, publishing editor at The Wall Street Journal, who just wrote about this. Hey, Annabelle, welcome to WNYC.

Annabelle Williams: Hi, Brian. Thank you for having me.

Brian: What got you thinking about Venmo etiquette?

Annabelle: The Wall Street Journal does a lovely column called Young Money where staffers are encouraged to think about things that they're seeing in their day-to-day lives with how they interact with money. I have to say, I interact with Venmo more so than maybe any other way that I look at my own money. I use it at least once a week, and I've found that my use of it has changed as I've gotten a little bit older and built a little bit more wealth. I was curious to talk to my friends and talk to my contemporaries, as well as experts, and see what it was all about.

Brian: I'm going to put one of your anecdotes on the table here as a model for people. You write about a roommate who seemingly nickel-and-dimed your sister routinely for small purchases. What does it say about a relationship when we're requiring $1.57 from our roommate for splitting a jug of milk?

Annabelle: Just to clarify there, I don't want to malign my sister's roommate, who actually is very generous. We were talking, broadly speaking, about what it can feel like in the social context of getting a very small Venmo request. This was something that I saw more often when I was in college and when my friends and I had very little disposable income, and every dollar counted. A drink, even if it was $1.50, that could add up, especially if you were with a big group. As I've gotten older, I've found that it can feel a little bit tacky, and that's where the relationship and social context comes in, as you were saying earlier.

Brian: Listeners, do you have a Venmo etiquette story that you would like to share, or for that matter, a question for Annabelle Williams, publishing editor at The Wall Street Journal? Let's look at another maybe typical situation where one might accrue digital debt. You're at dinner with an old friend, and when the bill comes, the friend puts down their card. What kinds of conversations should be had at that moment?

Annabelle: Etiquette experts recommended, if possible, talking about these kinds of things in advance so that you're not left in that awkward situation where the waiter has set down the bill, you feel rushed, you're unsure of how you're going to handle it. If someone wants to set down their card, there needs to be a conversation first about, are you paying me back for this? If so, in what time frame? There's also something really nice and really classy about picking up the tab for an old friend, and I think sometimes that can get lost as we're so used to getting our money back quickly and down to the cent.

Brian: I think Ryan in Brooklyn has a story right along these lines. Ryan, you're on WNYC. Hi.

Ryan: Hey. Thank you so much, Brian. Long time, first time. I just wanted to communicate a story. When Venmo first came out, I went to dinner with an old friend, and I had said to him that I didn't really have the funds to go to the restaurant that he wanted to take me to. He said, "I'll buy you dinner." Then afterwards, he sent me a Venmo request for half of the bill. I felt like it was sort of an insult into our friendship.

Brian: Oh, it sounds like the opposite of what he said he was going to do. Also, go ahead.

Ryan: Sure. I deleted Venmo and have not used it since because I was afraid that this was a progressive trend amongst friends who could be taking advantage of others for a clawback on expenses that were undue.

Brian: Thank you for the troubling anecdote, Ryan. Do you get a lot of delete Venmo stories when you're asking people about this, Annabelle?

Annabelle: I have to say I haven't gotten many, but that is a particularly bad story. I can't say that's ever happened to me. It makes me think of something that my friends and the experts I spoke to said, which is Venmo and how we use money and friendships, it's a window into the relationship itself, and it seems like maybe that was that issue here more so than the money. I see why you would have deleted Venmo. I probably would have done the same.

Brian: A few people are calling or writing to suggest another app that solves some of these problems. I'm going to let Elena in Ellenville speak for that group. Elena, you're on WNYC. Hello.

Elena: Hi, Brian. I'm a huge fan. Thanks for having me on. I was telling your screener that I experienced a change in this using the Splitwise app with my mom, where now and then we would have transactions where we'd owe each other something, and it always felt silly to ask for the money because it's my mom. We started using Splitwise, which just enabled us to set up a little group of just the two of us, and we can add transactions there. If we ever want to settle up, we can. It's nice because it feels like there's a communication space that's really clear and we don't have to feel weird or wonder about it. For me, it's more of a communication tool that helps us set this plan and then just live our lives and not worry about it so much.

Brian: Keep track of who supposedly owes what. Is that what Splitwise does?

Elena: Yes. Then over time, now and then, we'll settle up, but it could be months even because we know we're going to keep buying things and maybe owe each other. If the balance gets too high, then at some point, we might settle up. It really takes that emotional weirdness out of the conversations and the perception of money in the relationship.

Brian: Elena, thank you very much. I'm going to go right to another caller who has maybe the most cringeworthy story yet. Allison in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. Hi, Allison.

Allison: Hi, Brian. First time, long time. Thanks for having me.

Brian: Glad you're on.

Allison: My story, this just happened on Friday. I am recently back in the dating world. I met somebody on an online app. We went on three dates. To preface, I'm a straight woman, and I understand that in the heteronormative world of dating, there is this unfair expectation that men pay for everything. I don't subscribe to that, so I did pitch in on our dates and paid for things. After the third date, I very kindly and politely explained that I didn't think we were a match, and he sent me a Venmo request for the dinner that he bought me the night before.

Brian: Oh.

Annabelle: Oh, my goodness.

Brian: Annabelle, what are you thinking?

Annabelle: Oh, wow. I think that you might have dodged a bullet [chuckles] not to go out of [unintelligible 00:08:45].

Allison: Oh, I agree.

[laughter.

Brian: Allison, thank you for giving everybody somebody else to be angry at because we don't have enough of those people in this world. Oh, my God. A couple of texts that are coming in, Annabelle, unrelated topic. One person writes, "An important piece of Venmo etiquette, please keep your account private. I don't need to see the funny or crass comment your friend left when paying you back for whatever." Another one writes, "I don't like that Venmo exposes our buying and spending habits. It's how I realized a friend who frequently made lavish expenditures, then complained about being broke, gets a monthly allowance from their parent. What about what's visible on Venmo to others about your finances and any etiquette around that?

Annabelle: I spoke to Daniel Post Senning about this, who's the great-great grandson of Emily Post. He had a lot to say about the privacy and the etiquette expectation of privacy when it comes to money that to a certain extent is being eroded by the transparency that we have. Everyone I've spoken to, whether they be friends or experts, has advised putting your Venmo on private settings. What settings said was that your finances can tell the story of your life and sometimes that's not something you want out there in public. I've seen people get in trouble for Venmo transactions, even if it's just making a joke. It's not something that everyone needs to know in my view. I think the experts tended to agree with me there.

Brian: One more call. Carrie in Union Beach, you're on WNYC. Hi, Carrie.

Carrie: Hi, Brian. First time, long time. I had the opposite experience. Dinner with family. It was a sushi meal and we were all chipping in because we got it and brought it to my sister's house. I was the one who picked it up, brought cash with me because I knew it was going to be a big bill and I like paying cash. My sister had ordered it, so she had already paid. At the end of the night, I said, "What do we owe?" I owed her a little money from something else, so I just put it all together and gave her cash.

About a month later, she called me and said, "You're one of the few that didn't pay me for the sushi night. I don't see it anywhere on my Venmo bill, which is what we do a lot of back and forth." I went, "Oh, I could swear I took care of that." I wasn't even thinking cash. I looked in my Venmo, didn't see it, and I ended up paying her again, and I know in my heart I had paid her.

Brian: What happened? The record just disappeared off the web?

Carrie: No, I had paid her cash that night.

Brian: Oh, you paid her cash that night. Oh, I see. She didn't have a record of the cash. Carrie, thank you. We've only got 30 seconds left in the segment, Annabelle, but yet another example of what can go wrong.

Annabelle: Absolutely. For the record, I think cash is still great in these situations. That's just a personal preference.

Brian: There we leave it. That's one solution to all the Venmo etiquette problems. Just pay cash. Annabelle Williams, publishing editor at The Wall Street Journal, wrote about Venmo etiquette. Annabelle, thanks for sharing this with us and prompting-

Annabelle: Thanks for having me.

Brian: -some good stories. Listeners, that's The Brian Lehrer Show for today, produced by Mary Croke, Lisa Allison, Amina Srna, Carl Boisrond, and Esperanza Rosenbaum. Zachary Cohen produces our daily politics podcast. Our intern this term is Henry Serringer. Julianna Fonda at the audio controls.

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