[MUSIC]

Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. We just heard from independent New York City mayoral hopeful Jim Walden. We've invited all five candidates on for a round of short interviews followed by analysis. Curtis Sliwa, the Republican candidate, is scheduled for next Thursday. With us now, WNYC senior politics reporter Brigid Bergin. Hi, Brigid. Happy Monday.

Brigid Bergin: Happy Monday, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, we are open for phone calls and texts, messages from any point of view at 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. Brigid, did Mr. Walden make any news there?

Brigid Bergin: I'm not sure that he made news. I think it reiterated some of what we've heard from Walden in past conversations, trying to distinguish himself as an independent, someone who is neither a Democrat nor Republican coming into this race, really showing off his credentials as a former federal prosecutor. I thought it was really telling. You could hear how he approached government with a prosecutor's lens to solving some of what he considers the city's biggest problems. His positions on the Democratic nominee, Zohran Mamdani, also, I think, were not particularly new.

We know that he, as he noted, put out this proposal about 10 days ago that the candidates who are in the race running against Mamdani need to get organized, and if they're going to be successful in an election where there is no ranked-choice voting, that they need to decide who's going to be the one to really take him on. He has this idea for some poll in September, and whoever's ahead in the poll will be the person who takes on Mamdani. Hearing him talk about that directly, now that it is something that former Governor Andrew Cuomo is also talking up, was interesting, but, again, not brand new.

Brian Lehrer: Can you confirm the Cuomo story that he'll get actively into the campaign this week, but will suggest unifying by mid-September around which other candidate, who's not Mamdani, is leading?

Brigid Bergin: It's interesting. He was on NewsNation, which is the network that his brother, Chris Cuomo, also works at. That's where the most recent version of this story started. Over the weekend, his campaign gave me a statement saying that he'd have more to announce soon. It's interesting. There are a few things going on here. Number one, this notion that he will be in the race or not, or who will be taking on Mamdani. The ballot is set. All of these guys who are running in the race are going to be on the ballot in November.

The question is whether or not they're going to be actively campaigning, but there's no question about who is going to be on the ballot. All five of these candidates, Eric Adams, Andrew Cuomo, Zohran Mamdani, Curtis Sliwa, and Jim Walden, will all be on the ballot. The difference here is, in the post-primary world, which of these candidates will be actively running. We know for sure that the mayor is running for reelection.

We know for sure that Curtis Sliwa is running on the Republican line. He said he joined my colleague, Sean Carlson, on All Things Considered last week where he, I think it's fair to say, scoffed at the notion of this poll because he doesn't have to unite with anybody. He is on the Republican line. He will be on that Republican line unless he moves out of the city or he dies before November. Neither of those things, I think, are likely to happen.

Then Andrew Cuomo running as an independent and Jim Walden running as an independent, they can decide with Mayor Adams if they want to get organized and to unite. The likelihood of Sliwa joining this coalition, I think, is very unlikely. I think that the Cuomo camp has been trying to tease this idea since even last week. There was this interesting press conference last Monday. It was organized by John Catsimatidis, former Democrat who turned to be a Republican in 2013 to run for mayor. Former Governor David Paterson was there.

They were talking up this idea of people getting unified against Mamdani, talked about the proposal that Mr. Walden talked to you about where they would have a poll in September and see who was polling ahead. Last week, the Cuomo campaign put out a statement saying, "Yes, they thought that was probably a pretty good idea." I feel like there's this constant teasing of an idea to gain some support. I think, likely, we will hear more directly from Cuomo himself this week, but it doesn't necessarily feel that different from what people were talking about a week ago today.

Brian Lehrer: I want to acknowledge that we're getting a lot of reaction to what Mr. Walden had to say about Mr. Mamdani with respect to anti-Semitism in Israel and BDS. We'll take Marcia in Brooklyn as a representative of people who are calling in. Marcia, you're on WNYC. Hello.

Marcia: Oh, hi. Thanks, Brian. I heard a lot of headline Trumpy tropes from Mr. Walden, though I really appreciated everything he had to say about really digging into the corruption that besets our city government, regardless of political party. I have looked through Mr. Mamdani's policies. He was not my first-ranked choice, but he has very thoughtful plans on the police and his Department of City Safety.

He has very thoughtful ideas about protecting workers' rights, dealing with everything from the deliveristas, who caused traffic and injury problems, to also protecting their rights as workers who are entitled to a decent minimum wage. He has thoughtful ideas that actually, in effect, uphold the integrity issues that this candidate, Mr. Walden, said he wants to see really become a central focus of any New York City mayoral position. I'm shocked that somebody would run those tropes who has such a thoughtful presence and understanding of corruption within our government simply to garner votes. That's scaremongering. That really [unintelligible 00:07:09].

Brian Lehrer: Marcia, thank you very much. One more. I'm not going to let the whole rest of the segment get focused on this one issue, but I do want to acknowledge that a lot of Mamdani supporters are chiming in on the phones and on texts, outraged at the way Mr. Walden was talking. One more text. "Jim Walden just sounds racist against Mamdani and Muslims. BDS was, in no way, a pillar of Mamdani's campaign. His campaign was about affordability, and that's why people like him. Criticizing Israel does not equal being anti-Semitic, and New Yorkers see that."

These are the ones that are coming in right now. This is what happens in talk radio. Somebody says something, and it's the people who don't like it who tend to respond en masse. That's what we're getting right now. Obviously, we've had other critics of Mamdani call in and text us in the past. We continue to get multiple point of views on everything in this race. Brigid, can you fact-check what that texter said? I don't know if you have it. Maybe you don't, or really what Walden said about Mamdani and BDS, that Mamdani is campaigning to stop all New York City business from doing any business with Israel, in particular, and any company that does business with Israel.

Brigid Bergin: Yes, Brian, I would make two points on that. I was checking that as Mr. Walden was saying that, because I know this issue has become something that can be very polarizing in this race. It was very polarizing during the primary. First, I think Mamdani in the past has supported BDS. I think during the primary campaign, he was not talking about it as something that would be a priority of his mayoralty and, in fact, declined times when he was asked about it to talk about it as a focus of his mayoralty, because what he often said, very interestingly, which is my other point, was similar to what Mr. Walden said to you when you asked about the issue of a two-state solution, which is he wants to focus on things that will be a priority for him as mayor of New York City.

Those would be the local issues, not foreign policy issues. I think it's a question that we know where he stood prior to running for mayor. We know it's something that, in the past, he has supported. It is definitely not something that they have made a central pillar of his mayoral campaign, nor do I think it's something that they would make a priority of his mayoral campaign.

Brian Lehrer: When you filled in for me two weeks ago today, you had Brad Lander on the show, one of Mamdani's prominent Jewish supporters. Obviously, Congressman Nadler, among others, have now also endorsed him. I mentioned Congressman Nadler to Jim Walden. What's their argument against this charge that Mamdani enables anti-Semitism? Did you and Brad Lander talk about it?

Brigid Bergin: Part of what they will note is that the language that Mamdani has been asked about repeatedly, that phrase, "Globalize the intifada," was language that, again, he was asked about, not language that he himself has used. In his attempt to be, I think, from his perspective, thoughtful about what those words mean, he tried to give an explanation of the translation of that phrase. Again, it's not an expression that he uses to the ears of someone like a Brad Lander.

It's not a phrase that sits well or feels comforting, but I think that they understand that he sees some complexity there and some nuance that goes beyond just a way to try to inflame an audience. I think that there's an understanding that so much more of his policies align with theirs that there's an understanding. There's a room for dialogue. Even in the space of talk radio where we have these conversations, it can be very challenging to have thoughtful conversations about things that people feel so strongly about.

Brian Lehrer: Why do you think Cuomo, in particular, as a Democrat, would align against Mamdani if these reports are true, that Cuomo will actively re-enter the race as an independent, but will agree with something like the Jim Walden proposal that, if in the middle of the campaign, he's not leading among those who are not Mamdani, he'll get behind the one who is? Cuomo ran in the Democratic primary. Eric Adams has left the party. Jim Walden was not in the party at any time during this campaign. Sliwa, obviously, is a Republican. Why do you think Cuomo, in particular, as a Democrat, would take that position?

Brigid Bergin: I think in this case, it has something to do with the path to victory and knowing that so much of the support that Mamdani received is support that is unlikely to shift to Cuomo or to him. He has to find a path that allows him to be successful. In some ways, that's a path that is going to be different from the one that will allow Mamdani to be successful. He needs to appeal to a different set of voters in a different way on a different set of policies.

I think it also reflects a different view of the role of government and of elected leaders in terms of who they build alliances with and build support from. There was a $30 million super PAC supporting the Cuomo campaign. There were questions raised by the Campaign Finance Board about coordination. The campaign vehemently denied that there was any coordination there. Taking that at face value, it still suggests that there's a certain interest and support for the Cuomo campaign that's rooted in a sector of New York City that has a very different view on how the city should run than Mamdani and his supporters.

Now, Mamdani would argue that he wants there to be successful businesses here in New York City because that's the only way to fund some of these other programs that he's talking about. The notion that they might have to change how they're operating, that they may have to put in a little bit more to support the workers who are working for them, I think, is something that the Cuomo campaign doesn't necessarily agree with.

Brian Lehrer: I take your point from the beginning of that answer about maybe Cuomo sees a path to victory here, because among Cuomo, Adams, Walden, who's polling at 1%, and Sliwa, maybe come mid-September, which is the time frame that Cuomo is reportedly putting on this, come mid-September, he's fairly likely to be the one who's leading among the four of them, and then the pressure would come to bear to support him. He sees a path. It's not just that he's opposed to Mamdani so strongly. It's that he sees a path to victory through this strategy.

Brigid Bergin: Exactly. The irony, of course, in all of this, Brian, is that this is assuming that Mayor Adams is going to buy into this strategy. Mayor Adams also sees a path to victory. Unfortunately, for these two candidates, their path to victory requires drawing from very similar segments of the electorate in New York City. They're trying to appeal to some of those same voters and that same segment of the electorate and those same donors, frankly. There's no indication that Mayor Adams is at all interested in this plan.

In fact, the statement that he put out over the weekend essentially said that-- This was the statement directly, "Andrew Cuomo lost the Democratic primary by double digits and is now doing the same thing he did to respected leaders like Charlie King, Governor David Paterson, and Carl McCall. Assemblymember Keith Wright," in all-caps, "forced a Black-elected out of office. This kind of political double-dealing is exactly why so many New Yorkers have lost trust in him. The people spoke loudly. He lost." This notion that somehow, there's going to be a coming-together among these candidates, particularly between Cuomo and Adams, that would allow for some unity coalition to go after Mamdani feels very unlikely to me at this point.

Brian Lehrer: Yes. Although politicians say one thing at one moment, and then who knows? Come September 15th and Cuomo's at 35% and Adams is at 12%, maybe something will change. Who knows? Here's a question for you from a listener who writes, "This feels like how the Democrats regularly operate. Have they learned nothing from the Harris loss? Does Brigid see any new learned behavior from the Dems?"

Brigid Bergin: Yes, I think what we are seeing in some of the recent endorsements that Mamdani is picking up is a recognition among some of the establishment Democrats that the people of New York City, the Democrats of New York City who turned out in that primary, have spoken. Last week, Congressmember Adriano Espaillat, represents Upper Manhattan in the Bronx, huge power player, hugely influential, endorsed Andrew Cuomo in the primary, held an endorsement event for Mamdani at a theater in Washington Heights with several other elected leaders giving a full-throated endorsement to Mamdani.

From my analysis, covering that event, being there in Washington Heights, it really felt like a message that was being telegraphed to other Democrats in New York, other members of the delegation giving them a runway to join the Mamdani campaign, talking about how the Democrats have a big tent party, how they don't agree on everything. You don't have to agree on every issue to still be supporting the nominee that the Democratic voters selected here in New York City.

He framed it very much as almost an act of resistance to the Trump administration that getting behind this candidate, even though you may not agree with everything, but standing up for what this party stands for was going to be an important step in pushing back against an administration that is conducting immigration raids, that is holding people in detention centers with conditions that are reportedly completely deplorable, and that it was important for Democrats to do that.

Brian Lehrer: Acknowledging that multiple points of view are starting to come in more now from the other side of the text and the calls that we took, listener writes, "With respect to Lander and Nadler, we call this the masochistic Jews." Just acknowledging multiple points of view out there in the Jewish community, as in many communities, about many things. Last thing, Brigid. When do you think we're going to hear this Cuomo plan from Cuomo's mouth, and the beginning of his active campaign?

Brigid Bergin: The statement I got from his campaign was, "Soon." We know that there are some big things happening this week. Tomorrow is a meeting of the New York City Campaign Finance Board. Just over the weekend, there was a ruling out of federal court related to a lawsuit filed by Mayor Eric Adams trying to get matching funds awarded to his campaign after the Campaign Finance Board had decided to withhold them for multiple reasons, including not filing his conflicts-of-interest board filing and not responding to information requests from the CFB, something that was a pattern that we've reported on throughout his 2021 campaign and in his 2025 campaign.

There could be news coming out of that tomorrow. I think beyond that, soon, I think we'll likely hear from Andrew Cuomo and his campaign about what their official decision is. Again, Brian, I feel like some of this is candidates making news for something that if he's going to start to campaign, then we'll see him starting to campaign. He's on the ballot no matter what. A certain number of voters are going to vote for him. Whether he's out there campaigning, raising money, talking about issues or not, it will certainly change the dynamics if he decides to do that.

One of the things that was, I think, a challenge for the primary campaign for Andrew Cuomo was there wasn't a ton of campaigning. There weren't a ton of events where he got media coverage. There weren't a ton of opportunities to ask the candidate questions. If that remains the posture of the campaign going forward, it will be interesting to see how much changes. Maybe there's a real reset with a real different style of campaigning. It could be very interesting.

Brian Lehrer: All right, Curtis Sliwa up next in the series of candidate interviews in this round scheduled for Thursday on the show. Who knows? Mr. Cuomo or Mr. Mamdani or Mr. Adams may come through even for in between then. We did have all nine of the leading Democrats on the day before primary day, so we're hoping that everybody will say yes again in the general election. We'll keep having this conversation in the public interest with the candidates directly. You can make up your own mind, voters, on these divisive issues and who's best at advocating for the issues that you care about, as we do here. WNYC's Brigid Bergin, who always helps us do it, our senior politics reporter. Thanks for today.

Brigid Bergin: Thank you, Brian.

Copyright © 2025 New York Public Radio. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use at www.wnyc.org for further information.

New York Public Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline, often by contractors. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of New York Public Radio’s programming is the audio record.