Title: 30 Issues in 30 Days: Public Education in New Jersey

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Brian: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. We continue on this Jersey Thursday, Jersday, as we've been calling them during the election, with our series 30 Issues in 30 Days, issue number 29, it all comes to a close tomorrow: public education in New Jersey, specifically the education funding formula, which sounds wonky but has a lot of implications as an issue in the New Jersey governor's race. The governor will inherit one of the most expensive and unequal school systems in the country, and the two candidates vying for the job have different ideas about how to fix it.

Democrat Mikie Sherrill wants to double down on tutoring and mental health support, for example, while rethinking how the state funds schools to make the funding formula more equitable, we'll explain what equitable might mean in this case, and Republican Jack Ciattarelli says he wants to "get back to basics" and with another new funding formula plus a push for charter schools and vouchers, what he calls a parent's bill of rights. It's a stark contrast that could reshape how districts are funded to affect how much they learn in school.

There's a big disparity in various ways between the urban and suburban districts. That's what a lot of this is about. We're going to talk about it with Jessie Gómez, who covers public education for Chalkbeat Newark, to walk us through each candidate's funding formula platform and the implications for actual kids and actual education outcomes. Hey, Jessie, welcome to WNYC.

Jessie: Hey, good morning. Thanks for having me, Brian.

Brian: Listeners, any teachers on your prep period right now or home from school for any reason who want to call in on this, or any parents or any other stakeholders in education, we're going to talk about the school funding formula, particularly as it seems to divide urban and suburban school districts, and how Ciattarelli and Sherrill are navigating this. 212-433-WNYC, if anybody has a question, 212-433-9692, or if anybody has a comment or a story from your school district. Can you describe the school funding formula, meaning what money the state government distributes to local school districts, and why that's an issue in the race?

Jessie: Yes. Funding formula is a bit of a doozy, but we'll explain it as best as I can. The state uses this formula, which is like a math rule that basically it's used to figure out how much money schools will get. It's based on students' needs, how much students are in a school district, and property taxes, which is basically the school district's ability to raise money through that mechanism. The problem with that is, though, the state hasn't always fully funded the formula, so in real life, some districts will get more money, some will get less, depending on the students, the needs, and of course, the property taxes.

To put it in context, in a place like Newark, New Jersey's largest city, sometimes the property value isn't as great as other districts, perhaps like in Glassboro or more affluent communities like Morris County. Again, that leads to some disparities as well, and it leads to some problems. The other side of the coin with the formula is that if a student has more needs, like let's say they're an English language learner, or they require special education services, that means more money to cover those costs. The state should provide more money for them through the formula, and that's how that mechanism works in a nutshell.

Brian: Another way to put that would be that since so much of education funding comes from property taxes, those wealthier communities that obviously have homes with higher appraised values and where people are paying a lot more into the towns with their property taxes, their kids get a lot more money funneled into their education than kids in poorer districts. Whether it's imperfect as administered or whatever, the state formula in theory aims at education equity to compensate for the property tax disparity, correct?

Jessie: Correct. The goal is basically, like you said, equitably and fairness. However, again, in reality, it doesn't always happen that way. Again, zooming into Newark, Newark has been historically underfunded by the school district, even though this school year it received a record amount of money from the state. How does that work, one might ask? Like you pointed out, the property taxes, also the special education need in Newark Public Schools, more than 7,000 students are special education students, and another more than 11,000 are English language learners. The cost for the public schools in that district is so high just to educate that vulnerable community, not even general education students.

Brian: Both candidates say the formula needs another look, but not necessarily in the same way. What kinds of changes is Mikie Sherrill talking about? Then tell us how that compares with what Jack Ciattarelli says he would do.

Jessie: Sherrill, we've heard her say on the campaign trail that she wants to modernize the current formula and help students overcome learning challenges, which is great. She also wants to do more to ensure that the school funding formula takes into account the districts that have that higher percentage of students with special needs, like I just talked about. Again, the current formula was written in 2008. That was a while ago. Things have changed a lot. The cost of things has also gone up, and vendors, again, for vulnerable students, vendors to provide curriculums, all of that has changed over the years.

Sherrill, again, is really proposing that if we update that formula and make tweaks to it, then that could provide a more equitable solution to funding public education. That differs with Ciattarelli's visions. He wants to set this statewide standard on per people spending, it's what it's called, how much it costs to educate a student in New Jersey. Then he would want that money, that cost attached to the student, per se, to follow the student to a public school, a charter school, or a private school through a mechanism that he would set up called voucher program. A voucher program, we don't have that right now in New Jersey, but something like in Florida, he hopes to model that after.

Brian: He's very much for school choice. We did a separate segment on that earlier in our 30 Issues in 30 Days segment, those multiple kinds of choices that you were just saying, having a certain amount of money that could flow to a district public school or a charter school or a private or religious school. What you just said about what that amount of money is, so that it's the same amount of money that follows each student, how would he get to that? He couldn't tell wealthy districts with a lot of property tax revenue not to spend more than his baseline on their wealthier kids, could he, or would he?

Jessie: Yes, I guess he could, but the problem with that is it doesn't cost the same to educate every student across the state, and that's for a number of reasons. Again, if we talk about vulnerable students, it doesn't cost the same to educate a general education student that does not require special education services versus a student who might have a severe disability and needs therapy, needs to get to school on a bus because they might have an oxygen tank, and can't get on a regular car. To say you want to set a statewide standard, that would be interesting to do, but also, how would he take into account servicing all the students and all of their varying needs?

Brian: Ciattarelli has also pointed to a state investigation that found Newark School District spent about $44,000 in taxpayer money on what he called a "staff fun day," a fun day for staff, $44,000, and he's used that as an example of why, in his view, districts need tighter oversight. How central is that theme of accountability in his campaign, and how much does it resonate with voters who may already feel like they're paying too much in property taxes?

Jessie: We've heard that Ciattarelli wants the Department of Education to get off the backs of higher performing school districts, and he wants the state to really focus on the underperforming ones. When you reference Newark staff fun day, yes, they spend a lot of money on this activity for their staff, but also we have to look at where a district like Newark is when we talk about accountability. They just were under 25 years of state oversight. It's their 5th year of local control, and a city like Newark, when it comes to oversight, the community has said, "We want to have more autonomy over our schools, and we want to be able to dictate that."

When it comes to Ciattarelli stance on focusing on more lower performing schools, Newark state's test scores are not up to par as they have been pre-pandemic. We've seen students really just drop after the pandemic. That, again, it's all because of the pandemic and the effects of remote learning and all of that. If we're looking at lower-performing school districts at the state level, then we also have to take into account what are the needs of the students? Do they need more tutoring? Do they need some sort of special academic intervention? If the state wants to take that responsibility of ensuring academic recovery, then how will they pay for it, and again, ensure equity across all of New Jersey's more than 500 school districts?

Brian: You're making an interesting case. Does Sherrill make the same case explicitly? That is, arguing that it's actually unfair to give the same amount of money to each student because different students have different needs, and there are some with those disadvantages that you're talking about, whether disability or English language learners, various things, that the same amount of money per student is not the measure of fairness. Is Sherrill out on the campaign trail saying that?

Jessie: We know Sherrill has said that she wants equity in schools, across the board. When she talks about equity in schools, she's talking about the makeup of the students in schools, she's talking about the funding for students, that sort of stuff. She's also talked about her efforts for academic recovery. She wants students to have high-impact tutoring three times a week with the same tutor every day, which has been a research-proven method. Again, we haven't really heard exactly how the state would oversee these low-performing school districts from Sherrill's perspective, but I think equity is something that she's thinking about, but specifics, again, we'd have to wait and see if she becomes governor.

Brian: Ciattarelli's take on equity does very much go to school choice. Here's 30 seconds of him on that from the debate on October 8th.

Jack Ciattarelli: I'm going to repeat something I said earlier in the evening, because I think it's one of the things that differentiates the two of us very, very much, but also reveals one of the hypocrisies of the Democratic Party that wants to portray itself as the party of the marginalized, disadvantaged, and minorities. Who has school choice? People with money. They can pull their children out because they have the wherewithal to send them to private school. Who doesn't have school choice, particularly in failing school districts? People without the money. I'll provide them choice with vouchers and charter schools. My opponent will not.

Brian: All right. Let's listen to a clip of Mikie Sherrill, who argues, among other things, that New Jersey sends too much money to Washington and doesn't get enough back for education.

Mikie Sherrill: Yes, they did get rid of a lot of federal funding. They got rid of it at every level of education. They got rid of it for funding for our colleges and universities with Pell Grants and with research and development funds. They got rid of it when they limited the amount of money you can take on as a student loan to such a small amount that many people now can't go to medical school who thought they were going to medical school. They've limited it for our Title I schools that we're seeing. In almost every level, the federal government right now has limited the money that they're sending back to New Jersey for education. As a state who spends so much money to the federal government, that's offensive.

Brian: Mikie Sherrill from the first gubernatorial debate on TV in September. What she said in that clip was about higher ed, but she also said at all levels. I guess the question would be, how much leverage would a governor really have on what she's addressing there that is pressuring the federal government, and what is she signaling about her priorities, if anything?

Jessie: It's very interesting that Sherrill has been really explicit about retaking that federal money that schools are owed and the states are owed for education. She's been really gung-ho about it, and we've heard about that on the campaign trail, that her focus for gaining back that money that the federal government had said might slash because of education, she wants to take that fight to Washington, which is interesting.

Could the governor have that much power to do that? Theoretically, yes. It depends on, I guess what the next governor would want to do and how hard they would want to push Washington to get that money back. It's kind of a wait-and-see on what she would do. That, again, is a very, very different approach from what Ciattarelli is proposing.

Brian: Dan in Montclair, you're on WNYC. Hi, Dan.

Dan: Hi. Good morning, Brian. Thank you for taking my call. Again, I'm not necessarily supposed to be speaking to the media about this, but I just wanted to take an opportunity to let people know that in Montclair, where I happen to be a teacher, there is a referendum vote that's happening on December 9th, asking residents. We had a $20 million shortfall that has been accruing over several years. A lot of theories about how and why we wound up here. This is a town where Mikie Sherrill's children attend school, some of them anyway, or have attended.

Just last week, 153 of my colleagues received either a Rice notice informing them that they were going to be reassigned as a result of this shortfall. Some teachers were let go. We lost secretaries, nurses, security. It's like this town is under attack. We have trucks rolling around with monitors on three sides of them promoting charter schools. I feel like public education, especially in a place like Montclair, where there's so much wealth, a really rich history of integration, of progressive educational ideas. We are completely under attack.

I think something like only 30% of the town residents actually send their kids to the public schools. Obviously, many of them do send them to charter schools or to parochial or private schools. Like I said, I appreciate the opportunity, I appreciate this conversation, and it's good for me to hear about these state formulas are really interesting in that I wonder to what extent Montclair has suffered or maybe not, maybe benefited from however the--

Brian: Dan, let me ask you a follow-up question, because as you said, Montclair is certainly one of the wealthier towns in New Jersey. How is it if they can tap the property taxes for a lot of school funding, even if your stat is right, and that's pretty shocking stat that only 30% of the families with school-age kids send those kids to the public schools? We'll see if our guest from Chalkbeat can confirm whether that's a real number, but it doesn't matter because those families are still paying property taxes if they own homes. How is it that a town as wealthy as Montclair winds up with a deficit in the education department?

Dan: That's the question all of us are asking. Unfortunately, we've had a revolving door of administrators, even at the highest level, where-- I don't even know how many superintendents I've lived through in my 20 years in the district, but our most recent superintendent seems to want to do the right thing, but she just stepped into this role. She basically inherited this mess and is trying to take whatever measures she can to make it right. While I don't love what she's proposing, I understand the needs, but it's a real quandary.

Brian: All right. Dan, I'm going to leave it there. I really appreciate your call. Wow. Jessie, as the title of your news organization says, Chalkbeat Newark, primarily covers Newark. Do you know anything about this deficit in Montclair?

Jessie: I don't know much about the deficit in Montclair, but I think it's interesting when we talk about funding for schools, and we're hearing that, again, a very affluent town like Montclair, where property values are much higher than those in Newark, contribute much more to the schools in Montclair than does in Newark. It's concerning to hear. Again, we'd have to look at the Montclair's budget. Is Montclair educating a higher number of vulnerable students? Are they spending more money on school infrastructure? Are there projects on the horizon? Are they investing in more tutoring post-pandemic? These are all questions that differ across the districts, and that will impact how much money the state will send to them.

If we talk about charter schools, when we look at Newark, which is not far from Montclair, about a third of charter school students in Newark are in those schools, and the rest, about 41,000, are in the public schools. There is a difference there, but there has been a lot of concerns about charter school expansions, how much money the public schools will have to send to charter schools.

This school year alone, Newark said that its highest expenditure was sending money to charter schools, and that sometimes could impact the public schools and how much they can offer their students as well. When we talk about cost of schools, they differ across the board. For the next governor to really focus in reforming the funding formula, that's a really big challenge that will require bipartisan support and also lawmakers to really pass these bills and ensure that the funding formula remains constitutional.

Brian: Gina in Ramsey, you're on WNYC. Hello, Gina.

Gina: Hi. How are you? I'm a career educator, recently retired school administrator. I just want to point out something that's an intangible impact that's deeply affecting kids is the decimation of teacher benefits and the fact that salaries have not kept up with the cost of living, have not kept up with what other public servants are being paid, for example, police, firefighters, and just the struggle for teachers to be paid a fair salary.

I just want to highlight too that the serious lack of applicants for content area positions like math, science, world language, ESL, special education, and that those unfilled positions occur in the most marginalized of the school districts. You could have classrooms in Patterson or Jersey City or Newark, first-grade classrooms where those children are not being nurtured by a single teacher, but rather by substitutes that just cycle in and cycle out. That's not about the money, but it's looking at the profession as a whole that really has to be addressed.

If you call any of the local schools of education in New Jersey, you will find that there has been a significant reduction of students who are enrolling in education preparation programs, and that to me is a serious crisis. I think if you look back at the Chris Christie years, that decimation of benefits, that decimation of the power of collective bargaining is what really started to create this backslide of qualified applicants. You want the best and the brightest in this profession, and that that has significantly impacted the outcomes for children in the most marginalized communities.

Brian: Jessie, you want to weigh in on this? Is this consistent, her concern with any reporting you've done at Chalkbeat Newark?

Jessie: Yes, definitely in line with what we're seeing in Newark public schools. They're currently in need and in high demand of teachers who will be able to provide special education services and will have to provide STEM courses, and also educate English language learners. It is a problem. I think just across the board, even not just in New Jersey, there needs to be more teachers in schools. Across the country, enrollment has declined, but in Newark Public Schools, enrollment is increasing, and the need for qualified teachers, like Diana said, is really, really important.

Sometimes teachers may not want to enter the profession because of financial costs, or perhaps salaries are not up to par as their life needs demand. In Newark, at least, there is a partnership that the school district has with Montclair University to have this pipeline of students that graduate and then go to Montclair and then come back as teachers. That's one solution that Newark has found to fill that teacher vacancy hole. Again, when we talk about teacher vacancies and the need for more teachers, we have to think about what do teachers need? I think our listener really laid that out too.

Brian: Gina, thank you for your call. I want to take one more. Heather in Morris County, who I think has kids in or who have attended charter school. Heather, you're on WNYC. Hello.

Heather: Hello. Thanks for taking my call. Yes, my kids are in a charter school. I have four children in a charter school in Morris County, and I can say that it is one of the most mission-driven schools that I have ever experienced in my life as a lifelong Jersey resident. There's a big problem with schools in New Jersey. Even the highly funded schools like Montclair or those in Morris County are really suffering. Being able to have the choice to send my child to a charter school where not only are the teachers and the administration, but the board members are committed to the mission of educating children with a mission of sustainability in all facets, in the facet of environmentalism, but also in mental health and giving back to the community.

Unfortunately, I've been in other public schools, and I'm not trying to offend any teachers or administrators, because I know they're trying their hardest, but it's just so hard for them to be able to get things done because they're constantly fighting with the town, with the state, to be able to do what they want to do. In the charter school, they have their own mission. Even when teachers were cycling out after COVID or during COVID, the mission drove the school, and it still drives the school.

I do not really prefer either of the candidates. I'll be writing in a third-party candidate for the Green Party, Lily Benavides, but I do think that we need more charter schools. There's students from all over New Jersey that come from the Oranges, from Newark, from Piscataway, from many districts that come to a tiny little charter school in Morris County, because they know that the education is better, and they have a smaller, not necessarily a smaller class size, but the school itself is smaller. The teachers and the administrators are able to see the children from K to 8, and they have a vested interest.

Heather: My children are attending special education classes. One of the teachers actually said, "You may be able to get better services in your district." After really highly considering it, we chose to stay in the charter schools.

Brian: Meaning by leaving the charter school?

Heather: By leaving the charter school, yes. We might be able to get "better services." We chose to stay in the charter school because we know that the teachers and the administrators are invested in the success of our children.

Brian: Briefly, Heather, what do you think when you hear so much of the criticism of spending a lot of the public school education dollar on the charter school sector as taking something away, or maybe taking students who could help their fellow students if they were still present in the district schools? All these criticisms of charter schools that are so common. You obviously are a strong proponent. You feel you've had wonderful experience as a charter school mom. What do you think when you hear those critiques?

Heather: One, a big chunk of our tax dollars stay in the district. I don't know the exact percentage, so I don't want to say that. Maybe your guest can confirm that, what that percentage is. I think it's something like 6% to 8% of our tax dollars stay in the district. That is actually for children that they're not serving.

Two, there is a ballot question on my ballot in Denville, New Jersey, to increase the tax rate of Denville to the tax levy of 1.83% to come up with a cost of $700,000 to renovate the public school. Now, I will vote for that. Why? Because I have the ability to, but also because I'm committed to the education of all of our children, whether that is in the district or in the charter. Quite frankly, I think New Jerseyans have lost that [inaudible 00:27:24] education of every child.

Brian: Heather, thank you very much for your call. We really appreciate it. We're starting to run out of time, Jessie, but what were you thinking as a public education reporter for Chalkbeat Newark listening to that full-throated case for charter schools when they remain so contentious?

Jessie: We definitely heard those similar statements in Newark as well. I think in Newark, the school community is really divided on charter schools. Some really love them, some don't. To put things in context, Newark Public Schools' charter school expenditures this school year total $416 million. That's a lot of money. Newark has a $1.5 billion budget, which also gets a lot of money. The superintendent, Roger León of Newark Public Schools, has made the case that charter schools are a cost expenditure for his school district.

If we zoom into how much city taxes influence the money in the public schools, only 9% of city taxes make up Newark Public Schools' budget. It's not a lot. 84% of that district's budget is made up of state aid, which is what they really need. If we look at a school district like Denville has higher property taxes, might get more money from its local fair share of property value, then it has the ability to put out a bond for school infrastructure. Newark Public Schools cannot do that because its city taxes do not allow it to do that. When we talk about charter schools and funding, it's all really related, and it's just a very, very difficult answer to say, yes, this works, or no, this doesn't work, or vice versa. We have to look at every school district.

Brian: I know we're over time, but I'm going to go back to Heather for one more follow-up question. If you're still there, Heather, I think you are, because I'm so curious, as an advocate for charter schools and with the experience that you've had in them, you told us that you're not voting for either Ciattarelli or Sherrill, but Ciattarelli is clearly the candidate of charter schools or the stronger advocate for more of them. Why aren't you voting for him?

Heather: I'm not voting for him because I don't agree with him on many other things. I am disgusted with both parties, and while I may agree with him on charter schools to a point, not fully, but I just can't put my vote behind either one of them.

Brian: Because of other issues. Thank you very much. We leave it there with Jessie Gómez, who covers public education for Chalkbeat Newark. That is 30 Issues in 30 Days for today, issue number 29: education funding as an issue in the New Jersey governor's race. Jessie, thank you so much for your reporting.

Jessie: Thanks so much, Brian.

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