Title: 30 Issues in 30 Days: E-Bike Safety & Regulation

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Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning again, everyone. We're in our 30 Issues in 30 Days election series, and we are up to lucky Issue Number 13, how to regulate e-bikes, scooters, and mopeds for public safety and still respect the ability of delivery workers to make a living and not be harassed by the police. The station reported on Monday, maybe you heard it on our newscasts, the horrible story of a 60-year-old woman killed Monday morning after two people riding on the same e-bike slammed into her along a popular bicycle route near the Brooklyn Navy Yard.

According to the story, bystanders at the scene said they're growing increasingly concerned about speeding e-bikes along the bike lane on Flushing Avenue there, noting that e-bikes moving at high speeds have become a common sight in the neighborhood. Here's a local resident named Juan Santana, who commented to our reporter.

Juan Santana: It's too fast. You see that one, 40, 50 miles. It's a lot. It's similar of a car.

Brian Lehrer: That Excerpt from our WNYC in Gotham, a story on Monday's fatal crash. In our 30 Issues series, we've been addressing some issues with explainers and some with debates. This will be more on the debate side, an exchange of views with our two guests, Nicole Gelinas, a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute, a contributing editor to City Journal, a columnist at The Post and the author of the book, Movement: New York's Long War to Take Back Its Streets from the Car, and Ligia Guallpa, who is the executive director of the Workers Justice Project and co-founder of Los Deliveristas Unidos. Welcome back to the show. Ligia and Nicole, welcome back to WNYC.

Nicole Gelinas: Good morning, Brian.

[00:02:04] Ligia Guallpa: Thank you.

Brian Lehrer: Let's start with some stats and see if you both agree, as we try to assess the risk. Nicole, you were here during the primary to talk about transportation issues, and you cited a stat that there have been seven pedestrian deaths from e-bikes and scooters over the past four years. The stat on pedestrians injured cited by Andrew Cuomo and others, in addition to those deaths, is 494 injuries in 2013. Streetsblog has it lower, but have you spent time with the data to let people know, "What are we talking about? Are we talking about actual deaths and injuries at a significant rate, or are we mostly talking about fear?"

[00:02:53] Nicole Gelinas: We're talking about both. We've long had a problem with people being hit by cars and trucks. The good news is that the City has made tremendous progress in reducing pedestrian deaths, and they're down even more this year in Manhattan with congestion pricing, but we have a brand new source of pedestrian fatalities, which is people being killed and also injured, of course, by people on motorized e-bikes.

You don't want to say, "Oh, it's great, traffic deaths are down," and ignore an entirely new source of traffic deaths and injuries. The only reason traffic deaths are down is that we've paid a lot of attention to it and thought of a lot of policy solutions over the past 35 years. This is yet another area where, yes, we do have to say, for example, looking at the DOT report from 2024, crashes involving motorized 2-wheelers, which includes the e-bikes, we had 6 pedestrian fatalities in 2024 and 581 pedestrian injuries. This is a source of harm that just didn't exist in the same way 10 years ago. We have to acknowledge this and figure out what to do about it.

Brian Lehrer: Ligia Guallpa, what about the stats on the safety of the delivery workers themselves? I saw a report from the New York City Department of Transportation that showed 12 deaths of e-bike and moped riders. I don't know if they were delivery workers, but 12 deaths of e-bike and moped riders in the first 6 months of this year, apparently, versus 20 last year, so getting somewhat better, but still, people are dying on these 2-wheelers. Does that tally with what you're seeing among deliveristas and the risks that they feel they're taking?

Ligia Guallpa: Yes, I think we do have to acknowledge that there is a new reality when it comes to e-micromobility in the City, right? There is a rise of e-micromobility across the City as a method of transportation alternative not only for delivery riders, but I think across New Yorkers. Just going back to your stats, e-bike riders is a really large population that not only includes deliveristas but also other people, but I think we need to talk about, really highlight the stats.

We're talking about-- e-bikes encounter for 1% of pedestrians fatalities. That's particularly data from Comptroller 2024 micromobility report. Also DOT has recently, in July 2025, come up with a report that explains that e-bike ride fatalities have been cut in half from high, from 13 to 6. Also, I think you mentioned street safety is not just a concern for pedestrians; it's also for delivery riders, delivery drivers who are driving in a city where there is a lack of infrastructure, turning delivery work also in a dangerous job, and a deadly job for e-bike riders, particularly for deliveristas.

I think we do want to have a full conversation because if we compared between cars and e-bikes, actually, cars happens to be the most dangerous vehicles in our streets, causing the deaths and injuries not only of pedestrians, but also of e-bike riders turning actually one of the deadliest industries if you see most of the fatalities that workers are that deliveristas are experiencing, is because it's really hard to share the streets, especially in certain neighborhoods where there's not enough bike lanes, especially protected bike lanes.

Also, we need to turn the page, that if we're talking about the rise density of e-bike riders, we need to talk also about, "Who are causing these problems in the City, right? Who needs to address?" I think we need to figure out how we address comprehensively, without targeting one, particularly, population as if they are the ones creating this problem.

Brian Lehrer: This brings us to the clips of the candidates that I'm going to play and to contrast their positions. By the way, this is one of those segments where, as of a few seconds ago, I didn't even need to give out the phone number. All our lines are full. For people who may try to get as others finish up, or you can always text us, 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. I asked both Mamdani and Cuomo about this issue during the debate I co-moderated during the primary season.

When I asked this question submitted by one of our listeners, the listener wrote, "Mopeds, e-bikes, and scooters are out of control and pose a danger, but what specifically can be done to get them to obey traffic laws?" Here's Mamdani's reply first.

Zohran Mamdani: The key thing here is we have to understand that so many of the violations of our laws as pertaining to our streetscape are also violations that are the natural result of an economic model of these food delivery apps. When we're talking about so many of the delivery workers, the orders that they have to deliver within a time frame, there is no way for them to be able to obey the laws of the road.

Brian Lehrer: After pointing out that Andrew Cuomo received donations from the DoorDash app, Mamdani continued with this.

Zohran Mamdani: What we need to do is finally fulfill the street's master plan. We are so many miles behind the building of bus lanes and protected bike lanes. Those are critical not just for safety, but also to ensure that we are finally following the law, which is something that Andrew Cuomo would find to be just guidance, not a requirement.

Brian Lehrer: Here's Cuomo's response to the question after denying that the app donation would affect his policymaking.

Andrew Cuomo: If I could do it again, I passed the law on e-bikes in Albany. Legislature passed it also, but I signed it. We left it up to local regulation. That was a mistake because here in New York City, the local regulation has been slow. The bikes are moving too quickly. It's mayhem. Too many people are getting hurt. I would have the apps, the apps responsible to license the bike, and they have the responsibility for tickets that are issued to that bike. It's their financial liability. They police it. I would reduce the speed limit down to 15 miles per hour per hour, period. Because if you're riding a city bike, you are as much a subject of the speeding e-bike as anybody else.

Brian Lehrer: I want to get both of your take on whether there may be some common ground between at least those two candidates. Of course, Sliwa wasn't in the primary debate, but Nicole, how does that sound to you in terms of how they would respond differently to this issue, if at all?

Nicole Gelinas: Yes, I don't disagree with Assemblyman Mamdani that this is a function of the economic model of the apps, but I also agree with Cuomo that this is not something that we can't fix. We regulate the apps, we regulate motorized vehicles on the streets, and these are motorized vehicles. One of the principles that has always governed the City and state regulation of the road is that if you're under your own power, if you're on foot or on a bicycle, you're fine.

You don't need to be licensed, you don't need to be insured, but if you are using a motorized vehicle to go faster than you could go on your own, you are taking on a different responsibility for other road users, and you do need to have registration. You need to have insurance. You need to have a license, and particularly, if you are operating as part of a commercial fleet.

If I'm delivering for Uber Eats or DoorDash, or Grubhub, I'm part of a commercial fleet. That fleet should be providing registration and insurance, including liability insurance for both the worker and other people on the streets, such as pedestrians, and also some level of licensing. It does not have to be a full driver's license, but yes, if you are working for an app or for several apps, you should have to take something like a three-day course, showing you understand you have a tremendous responsibility on a motorized vehicle, and that you understand what that responsibility is.

The same thing with e-city bikes. This is an issue because you have a lot of underage people, in particular, have no idea how to safely operate a motorized vehicle. Obviously, they have to fix that, but the e-bike city bike fleet should also carry liability insurance for the pedestrians and other bicyclists that are getting in the way of these things.

Brian Lehrer: Let me add Sliwa's position, which is not too far from, I think, what Nicole was just saying. I read that Sliwa has expressed support for what's known as Priscilla's Law, which has not passed City Council but was introduced, which would require all e-bikes and e-scooters to be registered with the City and display license plates. He's even promised to sign an executive order, from what I read, for registration and enforcement on his first day in office, if elected. Ligia, how much do you disagree with those kinds of proposals or what Nicole was saying?

Ligia Guallpa: Yes. I think the public, and everybody, needs to know that the current administration is already regulating and overregulating e-bike riders, right? Recently, the mayor imposed a new rulemaking process to reduce the speed limit to 50-mile per hour, recently launched a new NYPD policy to criminalize e-bike riders, particularly launched a Department of Sustainability, particularly to continue to regulate e-bikes, right?

We're seeing again and again how what is concerning to us, not only of this current administration, but I would say for the next administration, we don't want to see is overregulating the e-bikes and the e-bike riders without addressing the root causes of the problem, right? What we're deeply concerned that is these new policies is more intended to criminalize and create a new system to supercharge racial profile, particularly e-bike riders, who mostly are Black and brown people.

Especially what is very concerning is that we're creating entire pipeline from ticketing to potential deportation, especially knowing that about 80% of the workforce is immigrant Black and brown people who are doing delivery work. What we do want to see is a real, comprehensive approach. I think we need to acknowledge that our streets are not designed for the revolution of e-micromobility, right?

We need to acknowledge that we need physical, protected bike lanes. We need more labor protections, deactivation protections that protect workers every time you have Uber, Grubhub, DoorDash punishing with deactivations to delivery drivers for not delivering faster and faster. Councilmember Justin Brannan just recently introduced a new legislation that will guarantee some basic protections so workers can prioritize their safety over the continuous punishment and excessive pressure of the companies.

Also, we want to see app companies being regulated. I think we continue to see new policies that are aiming to punish and penalize and criminalize the e-bike rider, but not hold accountable the companies, and create a new infrastructure that adapts to a new reality. The thing is, e-bikes are not going to go anywhere, especially in a public transportation that is broken, where people can not only travel using public transportation, but there is communities that rely on e-bike riding to go to work, to go shopping, to go to school.

It is becoming a transportation alternative that hard-working New Yorkers rely on. We cannot continue to see that the solution to addressing the problem that our city is experiencing with the use of e-bike riders is by punishing, criminalizing, and creating more harmful policies that this administration has already done.

Brian Lehrer: Nicole, how much do you disagree or agree with any of that, including the criminalization of users and the racial profiling of Black and brown people in that respect, that our other guest asserts?

Nicole Gelinas: Well, one of the reasons that Police Commissioner Jessica Tisch has cited for the fact that they've been giving out criminal citations is because there is no system by which they could give out a civil citation. If someone is driving a car and they're speeding or they're going the wrong way, or they go through a red light, there is, optimally, a license plate there. They can be caught that way. They can be given escalating tickets and get points on their license, and at some point, their license will be taken away.

Obviously, there's criminal penalties there as well, but there is a civil system that starts before they escalate to criminal penalties. With the e-bikes, because there is no license, there's no registration, there's no insurance, there is no way to give out a civil summons, and ensure that the person is going to come and show up and pay the civil summons. You just pile up these unpaid summonses.

Having a license, registration, and insurance system for the app fleets and for anyone delivering for an individual restaurant, although that side of the business is less and less, this would address the issue of having to address it through the criminal side, because there is no other side. As for making sure that the apps operate in an environment where they can't exploit these workers, absolutely, but part of that means you are responsible for this fleet, and you are responsible for knowing who is operating this fleet.

These are motorized vehicles. Although the mayor is implementing a 15-mile-an-hour speed limit that will go into effect in a couple of weeks, they certainly can and do go well more than 15 miles an hour. Always, always, since the invention of the motor vehicle in New York City, 100 years ago, 100 odd years ago, there has been a greater responsibility when you voluntarily take on the burden of operating a motorized vehicle rather than taking the train, taking the bus, walking, taking a traditional bicycle, you agree to abide by the rules of the road, to understand the rules of the road, and to take on a financial responsibility when something goes wrong.

We need to go back to that principle. When you need the speed and convenience of a motor vehicle, yes, it's true. The City streets were not built for motor vehicles, and they should not be rebuilt for motor vehicles. These are not the default vehicles on the street. We have a street system that is made for pedestrians, for mass transit, and for traditional bicycles. If you are needing that motorized speed, you take on a lot of responsibility for that.

Brian Lehrer: Let me get a couple of callers in here with different experiences. Acacia in Greenpoint, you're on WNYC. Hi, Acacia.

Acacia: Hi. I am an e-bike rider. I ride my two kids from Greenpoint to the East Village or Lower East Side every day for school. What I see every day is people just trying to cross the street in the middle of the street. Bikes don't stop the same way that cars do. I wish that the City would just put a little, tiny bit of money into teaching everybody how and when to cross the street, a little bit more about just common courtesy, things like that.

I feel like the e-bikes, we get such a bad rap because if I'm going down and all of a sudden someone's trying to cross in them, but even in a protected bike lane, they're coming from the curb to between, they step off, or people even at the crosswalk with their phones that aren't paying attention. I feel like the City hasn't put any money into messaging about how to be a pedestrian. I know that seems so simple, but that's what I feel.

Brian Lehrer: Nicole, pedestrians have a responsibility here, too. Acacia says nobody's talking about that.

Nicole Gelinas: Yes, pedestrians have a responsibility, but the issue is, New Yorkers have always crossed against the light and in the middle of the block. Maybe they shouldn't; maybe they should, but we got rid of the jaywalking laws. They're basically allowed to do it. The issue is, you know which direction to look for to see if a car is coming. You can hear the car, but when you step out and there is a bike coming from the wrong direction, making a turn off of the sidewalk, coming from the side street on the wrong direction, this is a burden that pedestrians have not been used to.

Again, not excusing bad pedestrian behavior, but this is something where you should be able to look one way from which the traffic is supposed to come, and if there is no traffic coming from that way, feel comfortable crossing the street. The problem is you're adding a cognitive burden when particularly at dusk when it's getting dark, if you can't see very well, you're looking for cars and trucks, you're looking for turning vehicles, and then you also have to contend with fast-moving two-wheeled motorized vehicles coming from all different directions.

Brian Lehrer: Ligia, hold it for a second. That question was more challenging to Nicole's position. I'm going to take one that's more challenging to your position and then respond to both. This is Pam in Manhattan, who, full disclosure, happens to be a personal friend of mine who got hit by an e-vehicle a few years ago and wound up co-founding an activist organization around this issue. Pam, you're on WNYC. Hi.

Pam: Hi, Brian. Can you hear me?

Brian Lehrer: Yes.

Pam: Thank you so much for taking my call and bringing up this hot topic that I have been working tirelessly, along with Janet Schroeder of E-Vehicle Safety Alliance, to promote bike safety. Well, let me start by saying, as you know, I'm partially paralyzed and lost my career as a cellist, but that's nothing compared to, of course, being killed, which so many people are, starting withLisa Banes.

Of course, our law, which promotes everything that Ms. Galenas mentioned, licensing, registering, insurance for e-vehicles, that is called Priscilla's Law. Priscilla Loke died, already, two years ago. My accident was more than three years ago now. Anyway, yes, how you can compare pedestrian crossing with e-bike egregious behavior is not comparable.

Brian Lehrer: That's to the previous caller, but what would you say to the point that Ligia has been making, that you have to look at the underlying issues to really solve this and don't criminalize what's going to turn out to be mostly Black and brown New Yorkers who might wind up being racially profiled, not to mention in the Trump era, the fact that they may risk their immigration status?

Pam: Well, Brian, the person who hit me was not delivering anything. The problem is that the basic commuter or just joyriding teenager is out there on a city bike without any accountability at all in our parks, on our streets. I'm shaking now, talking to you because this brings up-- I usually don't think about this, except that I walk the streets every day. I take my dog to Central Park every day.

The idea that safety, not these fee summonses, the only reason Jessica Tisch has been forced to enforce fee summonses is because Priscilla's Law was not passed the last year that we have tried both citywide and federally. Still working for that, yes.

Brian Lehrer: Pam, thank you very much. Ligia, too, I think what's an underlying point there is even while everybody in this conversation, meaning the mayoral candidates and the two of you who are our guests, agree that structural things need to happen, if people are going through red lights, if people are going the wrong way down a one-way street, the argument is you can't blame the apps for that or the lack of basic infrastructure.

Don't run a red light. Don't run a stop sign. Like any other motorized vehicle, don't go the wrong way down a one-way street. Those things should be enforced, as the caller mentions that the police department is now trying to enforce, to some degree. Degree. Your response to that?

Ligia Guallpa: Once again, I think there's two things that we're talking about. As Los Deliveristas Unidos and Workers Justice Project, and even if you talk to any e-bike rider, they will absolutely agree that safety is a priority for every e-bike rider, right? I think that at the end of the day, our goal is to make our streets safer, but at the same time, making sure that nobody gets injured, nor the e-bike rider nor the pedestrians.

I think we need to understand, as I have said, addressing the issue, it's not just thinking about e-bike registration, right? Registering e-bikes won't make New Yorkers safe. Registering e-bikes is not the ultimate solution to the problem that exists in our city. The root causes are--

Brian Lehrer: My question right now, though, is about ticketing riders with or without any registration or driver's licenses who run red lights and stop signs and go one way, the wrong way, and speed.

Ligia Guallpa: Yes. I can speak for deliveristas. Ticketing individuals, especially delivery workers, is not going to change the app business model that are designed to make sure that e-bike riders run faster, right? We totally agree that the solution also lies in worker and education, but also cannot just be about education, needs to be about regulating the app delivery companies, needs to be about not only worker education for workers, education for pedestrians, regulating the app delivery companies, adapting the streets to safer e-bike use, and that requires building a comprehensive approach that it's not just about overregulating the e-bike riders and overregulating the e-bikes, making it impossible to create new transportation alternatives that people need to rely on in the City of New York.

Brian Lehrer: Nicole, the last word, and then we're out of time. If they have to speed up, not stop, go around the block, be tempted to run a red light, and they feel they have to do that to keep their jobs, then because there's quotas, formal or informal, by the apps or whatever, then ultimately we have to look to that. No?

Nicole Gelinas: Yes. A lot of this is apps wanting to keep their costs as low as possible. It's almost like congestion pricing for app-based delivery. The price of the delivery should be higher because there's an externality that everybody else is bearing so that somebody can get some slop delivered to their house for cheap. This is a business that, as the price signal changes with appropriate regulation, the business should actually shrink.

The business of delivery used to be there's a restaurant a few blocks from here, they keep a delivery person on board, and they deliver within a few block radius. Now we have these cloud kitchens. We have deliveries being made miles and miles away from where the person lives. That really does not make a lot of sense except for companies specifically exploiting both the people and the City and state's regulatory infrastructure. A smaller, better-regulated industry would make a lot of sense.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, that's Issue 13 in our 30 Issues in 30 Days election series. Today on delivery apps and e-bike, scooter, and moped regulation, we thank Ligia Guallpa, executive director of the Workers Justice Project and co-founder of Los Deliveristas Unidos, and Nicole Gelinas, a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute, contributing editor of City Journal, columnist at The New York Post, and author of the book, Movement: New York's Long War to Take Back Its Streets from the Car. Tomorrow, it'll be Issue 14, Public Safety and Criminal Justice Reform, as an issue in the mayoral race for today. Thank you both very much for engaging.

Ligia Guallpa: Thank you.

Nicole Gelinas: Thank you, Brian.

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