Janae Pierre: Can I get your first and last name?

Stella Amberiadis: Stella Amberiadis.

Janae Pierre: Stella, nice to meet you. Lovely coat.

Stella Amberiadis: Thank you.

Janae Pierre: Would you say that your rent's affordable?

Stella Amberiadis: Not at all. I split it with my sister, and my split's around $3,000, which I think is a lot.

Janae Pierre: If you rent in New York City, you already know this. Housing here, it ain't cheap. We just heard from New York City transplant Stella Amberiadis, who shares a two-bedroom apartment downtown. No matter where you are in the Big Apple, everyone's feeling the weight of housing affordability and questioning life in the city that we all love, like Christina Adja, a South Bronx native.

Christina Adja: I'm still with my family, but rent is definitely raising. With my mom's income, we mainly rely on her. It's just getting a little harder. I'm very frustrated with it, and I see NYC becoming less affordable. I could see myself just moving out, moving somewhere in New England, and just having a life there instead.

Janae Pierre: From WNYC, this is NYC NOW. I'm Janae Pierre.

[music]

Janae Pierre: New York City has a new mayor, Zohran Mamdani, and housing is one of the first areas where he's moving quickly, signing executive orders aimed at tenant protections and housing policy. A lot of the housing decisions shaping people's lives right now were made in the final days of the Adams administration, including vetoes of bills aimed at making housing more affordable for New Yorkers.

At the same time, some of the biggest housing questions are currently being decided in court or through boards and processes that most New Yorkers we never get to see. To help us understand some of the housing decisions being made right now, we're joined by Leah Goodridge, a Brooklyn-based tenants' rights attorney who's worked as a housing lawyer, served on the Rent Guidelines Board, and now sits on the City Planning Commission. Leah, welcome to the show.

Leah Goodridge: Thank you. Happy to be here.

Janae Pierre: We're happy to have you.

Leah Goodridge: [laughs]

Janae Pierre: Tell me about your time growing up in Brooklyn and what that was like.

Leah Goodridge: Sure. I grew up in Brownsville, Brooklyn, which is in the eastern part of Brooklyn. I have to say, as an adult, I do not have a lot of fear. I think that is because I grew up in Brownsville. "Never ran, never will," that's the slogan. All New York City neighborhoods don't actually have a slogan, but Brownsville does. I grew up there in Mitchell-Lama, and that is a type of affordable housing opportunity. It's a co-op, and it's for low-to-moderate-income New Yorkers. It was very communal. A quick story. I remember when I was about maybe 12, I got in a fight with some girls. She beat me up.

[laughter]

Leah Goodridge: My mom, she just went right over to the next Mitchell-Lama building that the girl lived in and spoke with her mom, and then they hashed it out, then that was it. It was a whole, like, "We live next door. We know where you live. You know where we live, clearly, because you came to our apartment. Now, our neighbors know we will shame you," and et cetera, et cetera.

Janae Pierre: The good old days.

Leah Goodridge: The good old days. I say that because, probably today, people would have involved a third party, like the cops.

Janae Pierre: Sadly.

Leah Goodridge: It was enough back, at least when I was growing up, that people knew about it that you were ashamed that you did this.

Janae Pierre: Yes, so you made it up out of Brownsville. Since then, you have worn many hats in your career, from representing tenants to helping shape housing policy. I'm wondering, from where you sit right now, what would you say are the most important housing issues that New Yorkers face?

Leah Goodridge: I would say the most important housing issue is affordability and how we define it, because affordability means different things to different people. Now, I think from where I sit, I think the prevailing view for a lot of New York City government that they have taken on and adopted is this view that affordability is simply just going to come with building more housing. We don't need to focus on the exact numbers of how much these units are going for.

Let's say, for example, if the studios that we're building, that's affordable housing, are $2,000 in Flatbush. Okay, well, as long as we build more of those, the market is going to come down, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I don't agree with that. My view on affordability is if we are government, and I sit on the City Planning Commission, so technically, I am, I think that we need to make sure that affordable housing is actually affordable. We need to protect and build actually affordable housing, right? That means including low-income, especially low-income.

Janae Pierre: When you say "low-income," what number are we talking here?

Leah Goodridge: Exactly, because there are figures that all of the affordable housing uses. They're by HUD. They're called the area median income, and they're by percentages. It might be 30% to 60% to 80%. The most important thing people should know is that in New York City, low-income is actually all the way up to-- Is it $80,000 or $90,000? One of them. It's just so wacky that it's what is really moderate income by any other stretch of the imagination.

For me, when I represented working-class New Yorkers, and these are folks who-- Let me just back when I say this, the $80,000, $90,000 is low-income. Some people will say, "Oh, well, in New York City, that is low-income." I respond, "Who is delivering your food? When you go in a restaurant, who is busing your table?" I don't mean to sound like-- What's her name? Kelly Osbourne. That's not what--

Janae Pierre: Yes, sure, sure.

Leah Goodridge: I think people forget, like, there are working-class people in this city. Because you are middle-class, that's not to say these snappy slogans. They're actually quite offensive. There are a lot of people in the city who make $25,000, $30,000, or less than that. They have an hourly wage. They might be cashiers, home health aides, and they make the city run. These are the folks who need housing the most. When they go to find these apartments, especially if there are these affordable housing apartments and they're a $2,000 studio in Flatbush--

Janae Pierre: Who can afford that?

Leah Goodridge: Who can afford that? They can't.

Janae Pierre: If $80,000 to $90,000, if that person is considered low-income, the person that's making $25,000 annually, what are they?

Leah Goodridge: Exactly. They're called "extremely low-income." I would say that there is a report that is released by the mayor's office every year. It's called the Mayor's Management Report. It'll calculate how many of these units that the city has built has actually been designated for extremely low-income. Wouldn't you know that in those reports, it'll show the units that actually have been built, that it's about 15% that have been for extremely low-income, right?

Janae Pierre: Yes.

Leah Goodridge: I think that's important to know because you also have to understand that we're talking about the housing lottery. They're not the most accessible. It's really a crapshoot. You apply, but thousands of other people are also applying. For these buildings that are mostly built by private developers, it's like applying for a co-op, right? You got to have a vial of blood, credit score, all of this information. A couple of years ago, at least when I was coming back from law school, to me, applying for an apartment, to some degree, was much easier than it is today. It wasn't all of this, "We need references. We need--"

Janae Pierre: A guarantor.

Leah Goodridge: "We need a guarantor." You need to make a certain amount, and then that's it.

Janae Pierre: You need to have some money.

Leah Goodridge: Now, it's your credit score, all of these different things. I think there are just a lot of barriers. The other thing, too. Someone might listen to this and say, "Well, just go find a rent-stabilized apartment." First of all, there's no actual centralized database to find a rent-stabilized apartment. You can't just go online and say, "Ring me up all of the rent-stabilized apartments in New York City," and then go look for them. It's difficult to do that.

Even if you did, one big barrier that is at least removed now, but certainly was a barrier for years, is brokers. Brokers were a huge barrier. You know what? I would have a bunch of clients, and they'd find a rent-stabilized apartment. Then who would pop up and be the big boogeyman? The person who was a barrier, the broker. The broker would say, "Okay, this is a rent-stabilized apartment. If you want it, you have to pay me 15% of the annual rent," and so they wouldn't have it.

Here they are. They're extremely low-income. They found something that's actually affordable. It's something that, out of everyone, let's say, compared to someone who was more moderate income or wealthy, they should probably have it, right? They don't have that because the broker is now putting in this other barrier. There was recently a law passed by council member Chi Ossé called the FARE Act that removed the broker fee. At least that's one good thing.

Janae Pierre: Yes, that's one good thing. We're talking about rent-stabilized apartments. I know that you used to serve on the Rent Guidelines Board under former mayor Bill de Blasio. Now, I got to say, a lot of people have questions about the board, and it feels, I don't know, a bit mysterious.

Leah Goodridge: Yes.

Janae Pierre: First of all, tell us, who are these people that make up this board, and what exactly does the board do?

Leah Goodridge: Okay, so there are nine people on the Rent Guidelines Board. Every single one of them is appointed by the mayor. That's important to know because it means that all of them are likely going to be aligned with the mayor's views, right? For example, Bill de Blasio, I think he was a lot more tenant-friendly than Mayor Adams. He appointed people that aligned with his view.

The second thing to know is that there are different types of board members. There are two tenant members. That means those two members are supposed to represent the interests of tenants. Then there are two landlord members. They are supposed to represent the interests of landlords. We're at four so far. Then there are five, what's called, public members. Those are members in the middle. They're supposed to be neutral. Both sides, the tenants and the landlord board members, are trying to vie for the public member vote because you have to get five votes out of the nine to win.

Not to get too into the weeds here, but let me just simplify it. In the middle of the year, which is late June, the board votes on what should be the rent increases for rent-stabilized apartments. Some of that might be a rent freeze. That's a 0%. That means your rent will not be going up, or it could be a 1%, or it could be a 16%, right? Whatever vote passes, that is by a majority vote. Five out of these nine board members will have voted for it. That means that the board members are trying to get each other to vote in unison with a proposal so that it wins out.

Janae Pierre: I asked this question because, as some of our listeners know, former Mayor Eric Adams made last-minute appointments to the Rent Guidelines Board, adding four new people.

Leah Goodridge: He was rubbing his hands, boy. He said, "I just want to leave a little gift before I go." [laughs]

Janae Pierre: Yes, yes, but some experts say that that move was to make it harder for Mamdani to carry out his affordable housing plans, but it's recently been announced that two of those appointees have dropped out. I'm wondering how significant that is for Mayor Mamdani.

Leah Goodridge: Just to provide New Yorkers and listeners with a little bit of context, board members have term limits. When they're appointed, it's not like you're just appointed. You have a year term or two-year terms. When Mayor Adams was trying to appoint these board members, what he was trying to do is put in board members who would have these term limits. Like I said, you need the majority of the board.

If he had five members or four members on this board and they each had at least a year left, that means that Mamdani would not, or at least it would have been very difficult for him to remove these board members, because you have to have some cause to remove them. For example, if Mamdani's people said, "You just need to go," theoretically, it could be a lawsuit, right? It's not as easy to say, "I just want to remove you." You have to have a reason.

What it means that these folks dropped out? Well, number one, people generally do not want smoke with the mayor's office. You might appoint people. If you're going to have millions of New Yorkers mad at you because you were the pawn of the former mayor who messed, and you work at Merrill Lynch, which I think was one of them at that, yes, you're going to have millions of New Yorkers angry at you. I suspect that that's one of the reasons why that person dropped out.

Janae Pierre: Trolling you in your neighborhood.

Leah Goodridge: Yes, yes, it's a real thing. Now, what does it mean overall? It means that the rent freeze is back in play. It means that Mayor Adams' people will not have the majority of the board. Mayor Mamdani can appoint people. It'll at least be either a straight, like half or the majority of the board, which means that that would be enough for him to appoint people who would approve a rent freeze. There are some people on there as of now who are Eric Adams' appointees, who have said they're not voting for a rent freeze. There's that.

Janae Pierre: We covered this lawsuit on WNYC and Gothamist, and we reached out to you for comment at the time.

Leah Goodridge: Yes.

Janae Pierre: The case focuses on a relatively small number of apartments that have been vacant for many years now, and how New York's rent stabilization rules limit what landlords can charge after major repairs. Now, on its face, it affects a small slice of housing, but you've said that it could have national ramifications. Can you explain that?

Leah Goodridge: Sure, yes. This lawsuit is very particular. It's about these small property owners who are saying, "Listen, my apartments are vacant right now, and I have no actual economic reason to put them back on the market to get new tenants because they need repairs, and it would be too expensive, so I'm just going to keep them vacant. Therefore, this is a taking. We're suing." We're in federal court. That's the lawsuit, and so it is.

It could affect, if we were looking at a larger number, up to 26,000 units, they say in the lawsuit. That's not a small number, but I think the thing that New Yorkers should know, overall, there are about one million rent-stabilized apartments. Obviously, 26,000 is a small chunk of that, even though it's a big number. The thing New Yorkers should know is that this lawsuit is actually one piece of a larger puzzle.

Landlords have been suing the city to try to weaken rent stabilization and challenge rent stabilization for years now. When I was on the board back in 2019, I was sued as a board member, me along with all the other board members, because this is the same as this lawsuit. We were sued, and that was a very similar lawsuit. Basically, they were saying, "Rent stabilization is a taking. This is my private property. The city is forcing me to renew leases to people I don't want to renew leases to."

Meaning in a private apartment when it's not rent-stabilized, once the lease is up, you can just say, "I don't want to renew the lease. I want a new tenant. Bye," right? In a rent-stabilized apartment, you can't necessarily do that. You have to have a reason to kick them out. It has to be for a cause. If they haven't done anything wrong, you have to renew the lease, and so they can stay there for years.

Then there's also succession. There are all these other things. Landlords hate it. Their take on it is like, "This is literally my private property, and the government is intruding on this. Technically, you have taken this from me." That has been their legal argument. Now, when this was brought in 2019, I don't know that it was taken super seriously because, at the time, the political climate was different. It was like, "Well, this is New York City. Rent stabilization isn't going anywhere." Now, things are different. There is a much wider critique of rent stabilization. That comes with the move to privatize everything.

One of the major critiques that I'm hearing a lot more from just the general public is this, like, "Well, we think that rent stabilization is bad because you need to free up the market." Actually, this is again the "build more." These apartments can't even rent. If you were to remove these from rent stabilization, then they could go on the market, and we could build more, and that's it. Problem solved. Obviously, that's really scary and problematic because you have everyday people who are now wondering if rent stabilization is even worth it anymore, even though we've had it for a long time.

Janae Pierre: Wow.

Leah Goodridge: I'll just say, I think the difference here is when the Supreme Court is looking to take a case, one of the things they look at, obviously, is the strength of the case. When they brought their other case, which was the one I was part of, that one, they said no. This went all the way to the Supreme Court, meaning that they were asking the Supreme Court to review it. When the Supreme Court said no, Clarence Thomas actually wrote a separate decision and said, "Hey, guys, we're actually interested in this. This is a really interesting issue. If you want to bring it, here's my suggestions of how to bring it again so that we can actually take up this issue." That is scary as hell.

Janae Pierre: Wow.

Leah Goodridge: That's scary.

Janae Pierre: Yes, definitely.

Leah Goodridge: When the Supreme Court is thinking of taking something up, number one, they'll signal it outright. The other thing is they'll see if it's a national issue, if it's been a nationwide conversation, which it has been. The other thing to keep in mind is that rent stabilization is very political and has become very controversial, even more so in the last couple of years. For example, in Boston, Mayor Wu, she has been pushing for rent stabilization. We've had other controversies in, say, California for rent stabilization. This will not just affect New York if the Supreme Court takes this case up.

Janae Pierre: You talked earlier about where landlords stand in all of this. We know that they often argue that rents need to go up because they have repairs, maintenance, and all these things that they need to do. In the context of rent-stabilized apartments, what are they pointing to when they make that case?

Leah Goodridge: They're pointing to the same thing. The Rent Guidelines Board hearings were quite interesting because-- Just in case anyone hasn't been, let me paint the picture. There are literally hundreds of New Yorkers who show up. When I say "show up," I mean they're tenants. Hundreds. They show up sometimes with drums. They show up with signs. A lot of people, when I say this, they're envisioning, I'll just be blunt, young, white DSA people with glasses. Oh, no, these are people in their 50s and up. Those are the majority of the crowd.

Janae Pierre: Yes, who've been in those apartments for decades.

Leah Goodridge: Who's been in those apartments. They're terrified. The retirement is coming, or retirement is already here. They move to South Carolina when I'm not from there. What are you talking about? This is it. This is it. They're like, "I want to stay in New York." They're the ones who were coming out, and they're strong. They're loud. They're chanting. I'm telling you, I should show some of the videos. They have their canes. They're in wheelchairs. They are just extremely angry about it.

Just to paint the picture, you have all these folks, these tenants who are coming. They're shouting. The landlords are saying, "We want a rent increase." The tenants shout back and say, "A rent increase for what? You guys are not even taking care of the buildings. There are repairs in these buildings. Now, you want to raise the rent." Then the landlords shout back, "Yes, we can't do anything. We can't do those repairs unless we raise the rent."

Now, there's a standstill because a lot of these landlords have had the buildings for years, right? Some of them have had the buildings for literally 10-plus years. From the tenant perspective, it's like, "You know it's a rent-stabilized building. If you don't agree with it, then don't purchase it." The second part of it is, how long do you want to have this excuse for 10, 20 years of like, "Oh, I can't raise the rent"? Okay, this is New York City. This has been around for, what, 50, 60 years, right? We need some form of affordable housing, and this is it.

[music]

Janae Pierre: Welcome back. We're talking to Leah Goodridge. She's a Brooklyn-based tenants' rights attorney who's worked as a housing lawyer, served on the Rent Guidelines Board, and now sits on the City Planning Commission. Leah, in your line of work, you hear a lot about the cost of living in New York, [sighs] and whether it's feasible to be here for a long time. I'm sorry. I had to take a deep breath because it's something that even I struggle with. Housing is a big part of that, but transportation costs have gone up, food prices, childcare, damn near everything. You're from Brownsville, Brooklyn, as you mentioned. Can you talk a little bit about how you felt some of these changes personally?

Leah Goodridge: Sure. One of the things I've realized is that me being from a working-class family, number one, and me being a tenant right now, number two, has really impacted how I see this work in a way that, quite frankly, is uncommon. I know that that might sound strange to people, like, "What do you mean? The people who do housing policy, who create these policies?" Yes, I am saying that a lot of the people who are engaged in creating the housing policy in New York City are homeowners, number one.

I know this because oftentimes, when I raise these points about who the hell can afford $2,000 affordable housing studios, it's like, "Huh." I think to myself, I'm like, "Wow, I'm amped up about it." Sometimes I'm like, "Is it me? Am I being gaslit? What's going on?" I realized, "No, it's because I'm a tenant. This is very personal to me." Then, not only that, I'm talking, right? I've spent a lifetime of helping tenants.

About 70% of New York City residents are tenants, right? This is a bulk of the city. It is very personal to me. Sometimes people ask me, "Wow, you're a city planning commissioner. You're going on Instagram. You're going on Twitter. You're just speaking off the cuff." I think there's just been a lot of steel put in my back from, actually, the more you do, the more of the sauce you get to see how it's made, and the more angry you get.

Now, I understand why the 50, 65-year-olds are showing up to the rent guideline. Yes, I'm going to be one of them because, now, I get it, because you just get a lot more like, "Oh, okay, so I thought this was how it was." Now, I have confirmation, and so this needs to change. To answer it in a lump sum, I am from a working-class background. I was born here. I grew up here. I've seen the city change. I've seen all these spots that I used to go to. Now, it's different. It's unaffordable, and it's really personal for me.

Janae Pierre: What about your family?

Leah Goodridge: Yes, a lot of them have moved out of New York City. My mother has moved out. My uncle, he passed recently. He passed last year, but he moved out. He moved to Virginia. A lot of folks moved out. In large part, you have to remember. My family, like most New Yorkers, they worked in jobs where they were servicing the city. My uncle was a security guard at the Brooklyn Museum, shout-out to the Brooklyn Museum, for many decades.

My mother worked in hospitals as an administrative assistant and other jobs for many decades. These are jobs that service the city. No matter how many hours you work, they could not afford to buy a house, right? They couldn't afford anything other than a one-bedroom co-op. Even for a one-bedroom co-op, you would have to scrounge. Remember, we lived in a Mitchell-Lama already.

Even move out of that to buy something more, it was practically just untenable. Case in point. I grew up in Brownsville. I checked on Zillow the other day. The houses in Brownsville are $500,000 for a three-bedroom house. I can't afford that. There was a report by the Center for NYC Neighborhoods that showed that 40% of home buyers in New York City are cash buyers. They're not even relying on, yes--

Janae Pierre: Who has-

Leah Goodridge: Exactly.

Janae Pierre: -20% of $500,000?

Leah Goodridge: They're buying the whole thing. They're buying the $500,000, and most of them--

Janae Pierre: They have $500,000.

Leah Goodridge: Exactly. You asked me this before. I have a lot of this steel in my back. Why I'm able to speak so loudly is because I am often reminded of my background as a working-class person. For a hot minute, sometimes I'm like, "Do I have it wrong?" Then I just talk to tenants. I'm like, "No, you don't have it wrong. You're just one of the few at the table."

Janae Pierre: The story of your family moving out because they can't afford to live in this city is a story that just keeps happening over and over again. When people hear affordable housing, they usually picture something they could realistically pay for. We talked about the studios on the housing lottery. That's $2,000, right? What does it actually mean in practice, affordable housing? What does that mean?

Leah Goodridge: For me, I think that it means that both the rent and, if it is means testing, which means that it's based on income eligibility, that the income match. For example, I kid you not, a lot of these affordable housing, they start at $50,000. [chuckles] That's a starting point. That's number one, that it be actually for low-income, and then number two, that the rent actually be an actual affordable price.

Now, we go back to this talking point of like, "Hey, why don't we just get rid of rent stabilization?" This is another thing, a new term that's evolved. The New York Times had it. They're like, "Oh, developer advocate," right? There's this whole thing of, "Let's stop talking about developers in a bad way. Let's stop talking about landlord." My father's not a landlord, but I'm saying, people will say, "Oh, my father isn't a landlord. I'm a landlord." I'm like, "Listen, I don't have time to do the ego thing." I've been doing this work for a long time.

We need to touch base. In reality, I don't have time to do the kumbaya. You're talking about kumbaya. They're going to try to go to the Supreme Court, right? When it comes to developers, for example, developers will sit and make a decision like, "Hey, I have to do affordable housing." To me, I'm going to get more revenue if that affordable housing income eligibility is higher like, say, $100,000. That would be classified as affordable housing. Why am I going to build affordable housing for people who make $20,000, as opposed to someone who makes $80,000 to $100,000? Yes, I'm going to do that.

That's a clear example of what I mean when I say profit over people. This is what happens when you allow private developers to take over. Let me just step back and say, I am not saying that every single piece of housing needs to be public housing, because some people will say "Oh, public housing is bad. It hasn't been successful," but I want people to understand that there's the other side of this coin, too, which is everything that's privatized and left up to private developers ain't good either.

Janae Pierre: Earlier, we talked about the busboy who works at the restaurant, who makes at least $20,000 annually, right? You call them extremely low-income?

Leah Goodridge: Right.

Janae Pierre: I'm wondering, is there extreme affordable housing? When the city calls an apartment affordable, how is that number actually decided? Who comes up with that number?

Leah Goodridge: Yes, I should say the wait list for public housing is 10 years. That's number one, yes. Then, if you can get on an expedited wait list, if you meet certain criteria like domestic violence or other issues, and that might bring it down to four or five years. That's number one. Number two is, who decides the actual numbers? HUD. These are called area median incomes, and they will make the decision of how much the income brackets are for affordable housing. That's the Federal Housing and Urban Development Agency.

Janae Pierre: Leah, with a new mayor, Zohran Mamdani, who campaigned on affordability, housing affordability specifically, what should New Yorkers realistically expect to change, and what might take longer than expected?

Leah Goodridge: Well, my hope for the Mamdani administration is that they truly focus on affordability, and that means, literally, the actual numbers. When we're talking about building and approving these housings, making sure that a huge percentage of that actually includes low-income numbers, so that's one, right? I say that because, like I mentioned earlier, a lot of the thinking around affordability is simply supply and demand. The more you build and you rely on the market, the more that, ultimately, the prices will go down. I think that's an incredibly passive approach, and it's an irresponsible approach for government to take. That's a talking point for private developers to say, but it should not be a talking point for any government actor who is serious about housing policy.

Janae Pierre: What do you think are some of the most important laws tenants should know these days?

Leah Goodridge: Well, I named the FARE Act, which is that you don't have to pay a broker's fee if you didn't hire the broker. What else? I know there are so many. The curse of being a tenant's rights attorney. Now, when you have to think of one thing, you can't even think of what else.

Janae Pierre: I think that broker's fee one is a big one. That saves you at least $5,000.

Leah Goodridge: Yes, there is a national one. It's settled, but there was a federal lawsuit where, again, we talk about-- Again, we were like, "Well, what's wrong with letting private developers take over and build?" This even was part of the national election, by the way, during the presidential election. It became a talking point like, "Let's allow private developers to build our way out of the housing crisis."

Now, there was a lawsuit because when you're a landlord, and you're trying to set the rent, a lot of the landlords were relying on rent software. They're like, "How much should I--" just imagine you're a landlord asking ChatGPT literally like, "How much should I charge for rent in Greenwich Village for a one-bedroom?" Instead of Chat, it's a rent software, and it says, "Oh, $6,000 for a one-bedroom." They're like, "All right, I'm going to charge $6,000."

Well, this was happening on a larger scale. These rent software and the landlords, as the lawsuit alleged by the Department of Justice, were colluding to increase the rent. They were actually artificially raising the rent to the point where it was affecting rent nationally. At the very least, that lawsuit settled. Even the governor of New York was saying that she would make sure that, locally, that it didn't happen in New York as well. That's one thing to be aware of, of just landlords colluding with AI to artificially increase your rent. Here we go again. On the one hand, they're saying, "Well, let's let the market do what it does." Then the other hand, we're like, "Yes, we're manipulating the market so that your rent goes up."

Janae Pierre: Leah, you laid out a lot. I don't know. Your Instagram bio said that you lay it out in a digestible way, but--

Leah Goodridge: Stomach hurts.

[laughter]

Leah Goodridge: Stomach hurts.

Janae Pierre: Leah, thanks so much for joining me for this conversation.

Leah Goodridge: Thank you.

Janae Pierre: This was eye-opening. It hurt. It was good, but it hurt.

Leah Goodridge: Thank you so much.

Janae Pierre: We needed to know. We needed to know.

Leah Goodridge: It's ripped the Band-Aid off.

Janae Pierre: Yes, for sure.

Leah Goodridge: Yes.

Janae Pierre: That's housing lawyer Leah Goodridge, helping us answer some of the pressing questions facing renters this year. Also, check out Leah's Instagram, where she breaks down housing policy in a digestible way.

Leah Goodridge: [laughs]

Janae Pierre: You can follow her @leahfrombklyn. That's Leah, L-E-A-H, from, B-K-L-Y-N. Of course, that's short for Brooklyn, y'all. Thanks for listening to NYC NOW, where we go beyond the news headlines and into the why. Hey, got an idea for the show? Hit us up at NYC NOW at WNYC.org. I'm Janae Pierre. See you soon.

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