Elizabeth Kim: Janae, what do you think makes a person a real New Yorker?

Janae Pierre: Oh, Liz, that's a touchy subject in this city, but for the sake of not pissing anyone off, I'm going to say a real New Yorker is someone who was born and raised within the five boroughs or even in the state.

Elizabeth Kim: That's interesting.

Janae Pierre: I'm going to say that.

Elizabeth Kim: That's interesting.

Janae Pierre: Yes, I'm going to say that.

Elizabeth Kim: That's interesting. Well, this question has come up in this mayoral race. One candidate, Andrew Cuomo, says he represents the interests of real New Yorkers, and that his opponent, Zohran Mamdani, represents the interests of gentrifiers. Cuomo and Mayor Eric Adams have been directing that message at--

Janae Pierre: Let me guess. Black New Yorkers.

Elizabeth Kim: Right, and that's what we're going to unpack today. Gentrification and Black voters.

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Janae Pierre: This is NYC NOW from WNYC. I'm Janae Pierre. Happy Saturday. In three days, New Yorkers will decide on its next mayor. Over the last several weeks, WNYC has been examining the issues shaping the race, from young and new voters to public safety to the cost of housing and childcare. Today is the last installment of our Voter Driven series, and it's a story about a group that's been one of the pillars of the city's Democratic electorate, Black New Yorkers. Joining me now is Elizabeth Kim, who reports on City Hall and has also been covering the mayoral race. Liz, tell me, what drew you to this story?

Elizabeth Kim: During the primary, as Mamdani was surging in the polls, I kept hearing a lot of skepticism from political experts. That's because the political wisdom in New York City is you can't win a citywide race without winning the Black vote. Mamdani was in a bit of a tough spot. He was competing against Andrew Cuomo, who's a household name in politics, and also three other Black candidates. He also wasn't really that well-known in New York City, including in the Black community. He's a 34-year-old Queens assembly member who's also a member of the Democratic Socialists of America. Black voters, as we know, especially older Black voters, tend to be more moderate.

Janae Pierre: Yes, but Mamdani winds up winning the primary.

Elizabeth Kim: That's right, Janae. Lo and behold, he wins in a surprise upset, but what's also surprising is he doesn't win a majority of the Black vote.

Janae Pierre: These experts, they were wrong.

Elizabeth Kim: Yes, they were wrong. Mamdani gets edged out by Cuomo in the predominantly Black neighborhoods. I'm talking about Southeast Queens, parts of Central Brooklyn, but he makes up for that by winning other voters. Voters like Asian and Latino voters. He also runs up the score in gentrifying neighborhoods. Places like Clinton Hill, Fort Greene, Crown Heights, Flatbush.

Janae Pierre: Yes, neighborhoods that have been historically Black.

Elizabeth Kim: Yes, but which have been transforming younger, more affluent, and, yes, more white. This is the tension I wanted to get at. With the election on the line, I wanted to talk to Black voters about gentrification and Mamdani, and I knew exactly who to start with. Renee Collymore has watched the Brooklyn neighborhood of Clinton Hill cycle from a middle-class enclave of Black homeowners to a casualty of the crack epidemic, to one of the most desirable places to live in the borough. I meet her on a tree-lined block of stately brownstones and immediately spot the one that belongs to her family. I give her a call. Hi, Renee. I think I'm here. Is your house the one with the Eric Adams sign? [chuckles] Okay, I'm outside. She's actually waiting for me behind the wheel of her white Mercedes.

Renee Collymore: All right, so.

Elizabeth Kim: You're going to take me on a tour?

Renee Collymore: Yes. They purchased this house here, where you just saw, in the late '50s, '60s, but they bought it for $6,000. That brownstone today is appraised for $4 million.

Elizabeth Kim: Collymore is very active in local politics. In 2021, she ran for the city council. She didn't win, but when residents were upset about a nearby migrant shelter last year, she was the one who arranged a meeting between her neighbors and Mayor Adams.

Renee Collymore: He came. He was by himself. When he walked in, everybody was just staring at him because they couldn't believe it.

Elizabeth Kim: Collymore is a dying breed in this affluent and racially diverse section of Brooklyn. She's a Black, moderate Democrat who opposes Zohran Mamdani and everything he represents. That includes his membership in the Democratic Socialists of America.

Renee Collymore: Their agenda is to take over New York City.

Elizabeth Kim: His signature campaign policies.

Renee Collymore: Free buses? There's no such thing as free buses. Who's going to pay for that? It's going to be us. It's going to be the people.

Elizabeth Kim: His support in gentrifying neighborhoods like Clinton Hill, where Mamdani won over 60% of the vote in some areas.

Renee Collymore: Every Black person knows if there's ever a Black community, when white people start moving into the neighborhood, rent goes up.

Elizabeth Kim: If that sounds familiar, that's because Mayor Eric Adams is saying the same thing.

Mayor Eric Adams: Who is his base of support? Gentrifiers. Gentrifiers have raised the rent in the city and disrespected communities for far too long, and he's the king of the gentrifiers.

Elizabeth Kim: After dropping out of the race, Adams is endorsing Andrew Cuomo as his successor.

Mayor Eric Adams: Well, you criticized Andrew, and you called him names. You know what? He called me names. You know what? Now, it's time to fight for the family.

Elizabeth Kim: Cuomo edged out Mamdani in majority Black neighborhoods, and he's hoping for a repeat. The former governor is framing his strategy this way.

Andrew Cuomo: We're going to get the Latino vote. We're going to get the Black vote. We're going to get the white vote. We're going to get every New Yorker who's a real New Yorker.

Elizabeth Kim: A real New Yorker. Christina Greer, Fordham University political science professor, says this kind of political message is a tale as old as time.

Christina Greer: If you hear the messaging enough and you're in this scarcity mode, then you're more receptive to that type of messaging.

Elizabeth Kim: This year's mayoral race represents a shift in the balance of political power between the Democratic establishment, represented by the likes of Cuomo and Adams, and the party's grassroots, which fueled Mamdani's upset primary win. That shifting dynamic has prompted soul-searching among politically active residents of many gentrifying Black neighborhoods.

Suddenly, Black Democrats are worried they don't have the influence they once did. Non-Hispanic Black residents declined by more than 6% between 2000 and 2020, according to census data. A Quinnipiac poll last month showed Mamdani winning support from 48% of Black voters compared to Cuomo at 34%. Mamdani is seeking to increase his margin. Over the weekend, he spoke at the Abyssinian Baptist Church in Harlem, where his message of affordability received applause.

Zohran Mamdani: Today, you will hear many politicians who will say, "This is the greatest city in the world," but what good is that if you cannot afford to live here?

Elizabeth Kim: Still, the 34-year-old Mamdani is unfamiliar to older Black voters. At a recent event in Brooklyn, an audience of over 100 Black progressives filed into a community center to hear from the candidate.

Roger Green: Mamdani is somewhat exotic to some folks. I hate to use that term, but I got to be honest.

Elizabeth Kim: Roger Green is a former Brooklyn state assembly member who moderated the event.

Roger Green: As he's begun to move around and meet with other people, I think it's changing.

Elizabeth Kim: The city's second Black mayor was viewed as a watershed moment for Black leaders.

Roger Green: I won't be just another Black face in a high place, but a person that's willing to do the job in a real way.

Elizabeth Kim: Green, who served as an important ally for the city's first Black mayor, David Dinkins, argues that Adams and others haven't delivered for Black New Yorkers.

Roger Green: Head of the court system is Black. Lieutenant governor is Black. The speaker of the assembly is Black. The majority leader of the Senate is Black. The speaker of the city council is Black. The mayor is Black. Public advocate is Black, and we still are marginalized.

Elizabeth Kim: Whether Mamdani can advance the agenda for Black residents is an open question for some who worry that his support comes from neighborhoods, where liberal white voters have displaced Black residents. At the forum, Mamdani receives a polite, but not rousing reception.

Roger Green: I know that there were progressives in that room who were undecided because they were saying, basically, "Look, we don't want to see another example of white political hegemony controlling our communities either."

Elizabeth Kim: In East Harlem, I meet 38-year-old Brandon Lloyd Adams. He runs two bakeries started by his father called Lloyd's Carrot Cake. It's a New York City institution. Although he voted for Mamdani in the primary, some of the progressives' policies make him nervous.

Brandon Lloyd Adams: I'm all for having fair wages and things like that, but you hear a $30 minimum wage and it's like, how do you survive on something like that? It's kind of scary to think about.

Elizabeth Kim: The Black business owners I spoke to seem worried about the rules changing after they've worked hard to build generational wealth. Adams, the bakery owner, tells me he doesn't know who he'll vote for.

Brandon Lloyd Adams: As a Black person, there are a lot of different aspects that I have to consider. It's going to be a game-time decision for me, honestly.

Elizabeth Kim: Back in Brooklyn, Collymore tells me she's also torn. She's turned off by Cuomo's sexual harassment scandal. Up until recently, she was holding out hope that Adams might change his mind and get back in the race.

Renee Collymore: This is going to be a problem. I know it's going to be a problem because we're not going to have any representation in City Hall.

Elizabeth Kim: Mamdani has said City Hall should "look like the city that it serves." In a city where their numbers are declining, that may be exactly what worries Black New Yorkers.

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Janae Pierre: When we come back, we'll dig deeper into Liz's reporting and her conversation with Black New Yorkers.

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Janae Pierre: Liz, in your piece, you speak to Roger Green. He's a Black progressive who says that, for all of the Black leadership the city has, Black people are still marginalized in this city. What does it mean for a mayor to have a Black agenda?

Elizabeth Kim: Well, for folks like Green, it begins with recognizing the disparities and the institutional racism that is behind those disparities. There's plenty to talk about. Income, for example. Black New Yorkers make 44% less in median household income than white New Yorkers. Unemployment. The unemployment rate for Black New Yorkers is far higher than any other racial group.

It's been rising even as the national unemployment rate for Black Americans is going down. Housing is another example. Black New York City residents are 30% less likely to own a home than white city residents. I can go on and on. What people mean by a Black agenda is it's not just about representation in City Hall. It's about how are you going to tackle these deeply rooted inequities with policy?

Janae Pierre: Speaking of tackling these inequities, has Mamdani talked about these issues facing Black New Yorkers? If so, how does he respond to the criticism from Adams that he's the "king of gentrifiers"?

Elizabeth Kim: I did reach out to Mamdani's campaign about the criticism around gentrification, and they didn't respond. I also spoke to one of his supporters. His name is Ernest Skinner. He's 82 years old. He's a Black Brooklyn resident who's been out there during early voting campaigning for Mamdani. This is what he says.

Ernest Skinner: I think that is a fallacious argument.

Elizabeth Kim: Really?

Ernest Skinner: Yes. The fact of the matter is that Mamdani has drawn his support across racial, ethnic, social lines.

Janae Pierre: Liz, what really strikes me about the criticism against Mamdani as a gentrifier is that it really doesn't track. He's a South Asian Muslim guy who grew up in this city. You could argue that he's more of a New Yorker than Andrew Cuomo.

Elizabeth Kim: Exactly. That's a very, very fair observation. Mamdani has gone out and said that Cuomo and his supporters are making Islamophobic attacks against him. There was this AI video that the Cuomo campaign said was inadvertently released, but it depicted Mamdani's supporters as criminals. It had these AI scenes of Mamdani eating with his hands. There was another very ugly incident in which Cuomo was doing an interview with a radio host, who suggested that Mamdani would not be prepared to lead the city during a terrorist attack. The implication there being because he's Muslim. During that interview, Cuomo laughed.

Janae Pierre: Yes, yes, and Cuomo is a guy that Black voters know, right? What do they think about his sexual harassment scandal? Are they willing to just overlook it?

Elizabeth Kim: Well, as you heard in the piece, the woman I start out with, Renee Collymore, she was turned off by those sexual harassment allegations. She doesn't want to vote for Cuomo. What's important about what she says is that the Black electorate is largely made up of Black women, women who you would think would be especially turned off by sexual harassment allegations. Now, polls show that Mamdani is getting just under 50% of the Black vote, and he's doing better, actually, than Cuomo. I will say that I texted Collymore this week, and I asked her if she had voted yet. She told me no, but when I asked her who she was going to vote for, she told me Cuomo.

Janae Pierre: That's WNYC's Elizabeth Kim. Thanks a lot, Liz.

Elizabeth Kim: Thanks, Janae.

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Janae Pierre: Thank you for listening to NYC NOW from WNYC. I'm Janae Pierre. Enjoy the rest of your weekend. We'll be back on Monday.

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