Ray Chen: Every time you hear it, it's like long-term friendship that you're returning to someone you care deeply about, and you don't need, like, to catch up on anything. You just start right where you left off last.

[music]

Manny Ax: From WQXR and Carnegie Hall, this is Classical Music Happy Hour, hosted by me, pianist Manny Ax. Each episode, we'll speak with a special guest about their lives, listen to some of their favorite musical gems, play music-inspired games, and answer questions from you, our listeners. You're just as likely to see my guest today on YouTube as you are on the concert stage. He's performed with almost every major orchestra you can think of, but he's also collaborated with Sting and been featured in the Netflix animated series Arcane, both on audio and on screen. I got to see some of that.

His latest album mixes classical themes with music from television, movies, and video games. And if that weren't enough, he's also the co-founder of a music app called Tonic. Ray Chen, it's a pleasure to welcome you to the show.

Ray Chen: Oh, thanks so much for having me, Manny. It's a pleasure to be here.

Manny Ax: How did you start playing? Was that through your parents? Was that something you heard, were you-- early on? Were you very young?

Ray Chen: Yeah, so I started playing violin when I was four years old.

Manny Ax: Mm-hmm.

Ray Chen: My parents were the ones who got me into it. You know, being a first-gen immigrant,-

Manny Ax: Mm-hmm.

Ray Chen: -we immigrated from Taiwan to Australia.

Manny Ax: Mm-hmm.

Ray Chen: And like many first-gen immigrants, my parents were all about giving me the opportunities that they couldn't have growing up.

Manny Ax: Yeah.

Ray Chen: And one of these was playing music, especially for my mom, because she played a bit of the piano when she was young, but couldn't continue due to financial constraints. So for me, it was very important to her on a personal level that,-

Manny Ax: Yeah.

Ray Chen: -you know, one of her kids, I have a younger sister as well, who also played a variety of musical instruments, but at least one of her kids would play music.

Manny Ax: Mm.

Ray Chen: And so it became this thing where she was very invested, if not equally, if not more invested in kinda my musical learning journey,-

Manny Ax: Yeah.

Ray Chen: -taking me to all my lessons, practicing with me. All of this was done together with my mom.

Manny Ax: She must be ecstatic now. [laughs]

Ray Chen: Oh, yeah, absolutely. She just looks at my calendar and says, "You know what? I'd love to go there."

[laughter]

Manny Ax: It's wonderful. And you played at the Olympics when you were young.

Ray Chen: Yes, this was one of my early, I think, turning pivotal points. I was eight years old. I got invited to 1998 Winter Olympics in Nagano, Japan.

Manny Ax: Wow.

Ray Chen: And it was in celebration of Dr. Suzuki.

Manny Ax: Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

Ray Chen: I was a Suzuki Method kid. And so it was in celebration of his legacy. And I think 500 kids from all over the world were invited to play at the opening ceremony of the Winter Olympics, which was pretty cool.

Manny Ax: Yes.

Ray Chen: I stayed at a host family, local there. We still keep in touch, by the way, to this day, like it's almost 30 years later. Yeah, it's pretty amazing. And then through that, I loved just the idea of, hey, I can practice this wooden box, and it can take me to all these different places. So yeah.

Manny Ax: Yeah. Yeah.

Ray Chen: It was how I got into the whole idea of being a musician.

Manny Ax: Yeah. And then you auditioned for Curtis. I thought it was so amazing that your mother took you, you went there, you auditioned, you didn't get in.

Ray Chen: That's right.

Manny Ax: Then you came back a year later.

Ray Chen: That's right.

Manny Ax: And you did get in.

Ray Chen: That's right, yeah. [laughs]

Manny Ax: It's quite, quite amazing to me that you could've possibly been rejected once. [laughter] It doesn't make sense.

Ray Chen: Well, you know, I was really young at the time. I was 14.

Manny Ax: Yeah.

Ray Chen: And now, that being said, I mean, plenty of people get into Curtis. Gary Graffman was, like, nine when he got in, I think. Uh, so it's-it's-- they're no strangers to young kids.

Manny Ax: No, I think what it shows you is that the whole process of auditioning and competitions is such a lottery. You just never know what's going to happen.

Ray Chen: Yeah, I think a lot of it is how you play that day and then who you're up against. And you could be feeling slightly uncomfortable, and then you let slip, and that's it.

Manny Ax: Yes, and it could be the mood of the judges, too. You know, it could be anything at all.

Ray Chen: Yeah. But, you know, went back to Australia, then practiced a whole year [laughs], and then got in the second time.

Manny Ax: And that's all it took for a springboard for a fabulous career.

[music]

Manny Ax: Ray, we've got a few listeners who submitted questions, and I hope you can answer them for me. Eh, if we don't know the answer, we'll make something up, right?

Ray Chen: I'll-I'll do my best. I'll do my best. [laughs]

Manny Ax: Okay. So a listener asks, "Was there a time when you realized that you made it as a soloist?"

Ray Chen: Oh, that's a great question. So I, of course, like many of my colleagues, you know, I dr-dreamt of playing on the stage.

Manny Ax: Mm-hmm.

Ray Chen: In what form or shape that was, you know, it was to be determined. And it was in my mind at the time, like, oh, if I worked harder, then I would be at the front of the stage, you know, as opposed to the back, sitting in orchestra.

Manny Ax: Mm-hmm.

Ray Chen: And of course, that doesn't make any sense looking back at it. But at the time, it was a great motivator for me. And so I went about this path. I thought about how I was going to reach the front of the stage. This was like 12-year-old me, by the way. And I thought, "Okay, maybe someone will invite me, like a great conductor." But in the meantime, I'm just going to do these competitions and just get as much time on the stage as I can, right? That's kind of like being on the front of the stage.

Manny Ax: Mm.

Ray Chen: You're in a competition, you get stage experience.

Manny Ax: Mm-hmm.

Ray Chen: And so I went about, like, signing up for basically every single competition that I could find that was local to me. And I started that process. And by the way, I lost a lot more competitions than I won.

Manny Ax: Well, you only have to win one. [laughter] Yeah, it's fine. [chuckles]

Ray Chen: But finally, at the end of this whole process, there were two competitions that really elevated, I think that gave me that sense, "Oh, wow."

Manny Ax: Mm-hmm.

Ray Chen: First one was the Menuhin Competition, the Yehudi Menuhin Competition. That was in 2008. And within a span of a year, I won the Queen Elizabeth. And so the first one, the Yehudi Menuhin one, gave me the feeling of, "Oh, man, I could really do this."

Manny Ax: Mm-hmm.

Ray Chen: It gave me a lot of confidence.

Manny Ax: Mm-hmm.

Ray Chen: It didn't really make an impact to my career. There weren't, like, many concerts that came out of it, but it made a whole world of a difference to how I approached really myself and music.

Manny Ax: Mm.

Ray Chen: And it amplified the learning process to a tremendous level. And then the following year, I did the Queen Elizabeth. I participated and won. When I won that, that's when everything was like, "Wow, okay. It's not just a peek through the door. I've got my foot through the door. And the rest is up to me."

Manny Ax: Yeah, well, of course, that's a major, major competition. And when you win something like the Queen Elizabeth, you are destined to be an important soloist, I think.

Ray Chen: [chuckles] It's a lot to still weigh-- I remember when I first won that competition, I just felt this immense weight on my shoulders as I looked back at all the previous winners, all the way back to David Oistrakh-

Manny Ax: Yes. [chuckles]

Ray Chen: -and thinking, "Oh, my goodness, like I have so much to live up to."

[music]

Manny Ax: It's so fascinating to me that you started this app called Tonic.

Ray Chen: That's right.

Manny Ax: And it fascinates me because, as you say, you worked very, very hard when you were young, and you kept working hard. But how to work is another whole subject, which I think most of us need to learn a lot about. And I know that, for example, our mutual idol, Yo-Yo Ma, I think he, uh, actually is the best practicer I know.

Ray Chen: How does he practice?

Manny Ax: Well, it's all very concentrated.

Ray Chen: Hmm.

Manny Ax: He hears something that's not working, and he will try to analyze that particular problem.

Ray Chen: Got it.

Manny Ax: And in a few minutes, he'll say, "Okay, this is the problem. This is what I have to fix." And once he does that, he's got it. So what impresses me so much about it is that I have to spend endless hours doing things over and over and over to get a result. And he doesn't seem to need that so much. And I think it's the practice habits which are so amazing. So I was gonna ask you about Tonic and the whole idea of practicing in front of other people or hearing other people play.

Ray Chen: That's exactly what it is. So it's a live stream practice app where musicians of all levels, of all ages can share their work in progress, right? They're practicing. Which is, if you think about it, the longest part of the journey, right? The most hours aren't spent performing.

Manny Ax: Yeah. Yeah.

Ray Chen: The longest part of the journey is actually when you're practicing on your own, right?

Manny Ax: Sure. Sure.

Ray Chen: In solitude, in isolation.

Manny Ax: Sure.

Ray Chen: And sure, that gives you focus, but just like the example that you gave of Yo-Yo and yourself, like you guys have figured out to each your own ways of practicing. Most people don't have either that discipline or that framework, their way of practicing.

Manny Ax: Mm-hmm.

Ray Chen: Gary Graffman wrote that book, I Really Should Be Practicing, right? I mean, that's the problem that Tonic aims to solve. And it's-it's that helping to motivate people who know they should be practicing, but they might not have the next performance opportunity for months.

Manny Ax: Yeah.

Ray Chen: So where do they go to get that final point of, like, fulfillment of the sharing part, right?

Manny Ax: Yeah.

Ray Chen: Music is so much better when it's shared.

Manny Ax: I'm trying to sort of visualize it. Let's say I heard this person practicing-

Ray Chen: Mm-hmm.

Manny Ax: -a Mendelssohn piece.

Ray Chen: Mm-hmm.

Manny Ax: And would he want to know that I'm there?

Ray Chen: Oh, absolutely. I mean, people want to feel seen, right, and supported. Like, that's kind of cool. And unlike YouTube or anything like that, Tonic, it's all under that context where everyone understands everyone is in the work in progress. So you're not being judged from a performance vantage point, right?

Manny Ax: Right.

Ray Chen: People are there to support you. They understand that they're there. It's like open rehearsal. When people go to open rehearsal, they know that they're there to, like, see a work in progress.

Manny Ax: Yeah. Are people willing to devote the time to other people?

Ray Chen: Absolutely. You know, we have the metrics that show us that the average use time of a studio when no one's there is already 36 minutes.

Manny Ax: Mm-hmm.

Ray Chen: 36 minutes of practice time averaged out across all people is pretty substantial already. But then as soon as one person joins, that practice time increases drastically. We're at almost 50 minutes now with one person. And then with two people, it's over an hour. It's like an hour and 16 minutes. From the listener's point of view, it's kinda like a radio, right?

Manny Ax: Mm-hmm.

Ray Chen: It's a radio where you can just listen, and then you can interact with the player. So that's pretty cool, too. Like, both sides give each other-

Manny Ax: Mm-hmm.

Ray Chen: -what the other side needs and value.

Manny Ax: It's an amazing idea and connection. I saw an interview you did where you talk about when you play, when you commune with the composer, that's one thing. But when you have someone listening to you communing with the composer, that to you is the ultimate satisfaction.

Ray Chen: Yes, absolutely. Because at the end of the day, like, we're musicians. We have our own interpretations. This is what I believe, by the way. Our purpose is to share those interpretations with others. Now, of course, you could just play for yourself, but what about that part that's missing?

Manny Ax: Mm-hmm.

Ray Chen: I think it's the part where someone else is there. When that person's there-- It's like a chef, you know? A chef's purpose is to serve dishes to others, right? And all of their different ideas come together on a plate.

Manny Ax: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Ray Chen: For us, it comes together on the stage, and that stage might be in the living room of someone's house.

[music]

Ray Chen: It could be on the stage of Carnegie Hall, but it's a stage nonetheless.

Manny Ax: You've brought in some music that you really like, the Brahms' piano Intermezzo.

Ray Chen: Yeah, I-I love that piece. I used to learn piano as a kid.

Manny Ax: You never learned that one, right?

Ray Chen: No, I discovered this piece after I had already, uh, what? Well, I wouldn't say quit the piano. That's a strong term. I may return to it.

Manny Ax: Yeah. [chuckles]

Ray Chen: But where I put it aside-

Manny Ax: Yeah.

Ray Chen: -momentarily for a few decades. [laughs]

Manny Ax: Okay. What do you like about this Intermezzo?

Ray Chen: I mean, I just love how it just begins.

[music]

Ray Chen: Every time you hear it, it's like long-term friendship that you're returning to, someone you care deeply about. And you don't need, like, to catch up on anything. You just start right where you left off last. And it's like no words need to be said. You just have that feeling, and that's what that piece gives me.

Manny Ax: There are two elements in that piece that get to me every time. First of all, the fact that the tune itself is actually slightly tortured.

Ray Chen: Hmm.

Manny Ax: It's so spread out, those leaps.

[music]

Manny Ax: And yet because of the harmony, it's so incredibly beautiful and seamless. And then the other part that completely gets me [chuckles] is that he always goes to that A. He always goes ta, da, rum, ta, da, rah.

Ray Chen: Yes.

Manny Ax: And then the very last time, it goes one note higher, ta, da, rum, ta, da, lah.

Ray Chen: Yes, yes, yes. [laughs] Yes.

[music]

Manny Ax: And it's marked very, very soft. It's such an arrival. Brahms was always a guy, for me, who-who kind of-- it's very hard to get somewhere. You know, it's like Sisyphus pushing the rock up the hill.

Ray Chen: Hmm.

Manny Ax: But once you get there, he gets to stay a little bit, unlike Sisyphus. A lot of the time, he is also like Sisyphus in that it rolls right back down, and it's depressed all over again. But once in a while, he gives you the pleasure of getting up there and remaining up there. [chuckles]

Ray Chen: Yeah, I mean, he's definitely not trying to show off, right?

Manny Ax: No, no.

Ray Chen: He's just saying something so quietly.

Manny Ax: Yeah.

Ray Chen: And it goes straight to the heart, and it's-it's just so tender and-and sad a little bit at-- and deep. You know, that and all the emotions that are there. Yeah, it's so-- I love that.

[music]

Manny Ax: I'm Manny Ax, and this is Classical Music Happy Hour. We'll return in just a moment. This is Classical Music Happy Hour. I'm Manny Ax. Let's hear more from Ray Chen. This show, as you probably know, is called Classical Music Happy Hour. What is your favorite drink after a long day?

Ray Chen: Ooh, favorite drink after a long day would probably be a sparkling water that's really cold with ice and lemon, fresh lemon.

Manny Ax: Okay. So you're not really a drinker.

Ray Chen: I used to drink, but then I stopped drinking about a year ago. I was undergoing, like, a pretty heavy schedule back then, balancing between-

Manny Ax: Mm-hmm.

Ray Chen: -what I was doing with Tonic, with a startup, as well as my concert career. So I stopped drinking for a month, and then it sort of just went on for-- [laughs] well, it's been over a year now.

Manny Ax: What is the best book you've ever read about music?

Ray Chen: Ooh, best book. I have to say Indivisible by Four. I love that one, written by Arnold Steinhardt about quartet life,-

Manny Ax: Mm.

Ray Chen: -his life in quartet. I read it as a student. I, to this day, it-- I still think of it as-as like my highest recommended, uh, book in music, [chuckles] about the career especially.

Manny Ax: Yeah, I love it, too.

Ray Chen: Yeah.

Manny Ax: First album that you ever bought with your own money?

Ray Chen: Ooh, first album. This takes me back. I think that it might have been-- you know, I remember going to the store, and oh, my gosh, this is so embarrassing. It was Barbie Girl by Aqua. You know, back in those days? "I'm a Barbie girl." You know that one?

Manny Ax: I don't, but, uh, if it had been the Schoenberg Orchestral Variations, I would've known it. [laughter] Now, can I ask you about-- I know you've done a number of things with video game music. It's in snippets, right? Am I right about that?

Ray Chen: Yeah. So video game music is a little bit like recording soundtracks for movies, right?

Manny Ax: Mm.

Ray Chen: But each scene has a different section, a cue as we call it, and usually it's recorded separately from the orchestra. So you're recording your own part, but you might be hearing a backing track.

Manny Ax: Mm-hmm.

Ray Chen: There's usually a click track to it, but so you have to find musicality in between. Sometimes they tell you, and I get this a lot, "Oh, can you just be a little less musical [laughter] Because we've got dialogue coming-- going over this particular scene? And you don't wanna, like, stand out too much." So that happens a lot.

[laughter]

Manny Ax: Okay. Oh, wow.

Ray Chen: But other times- but other times, yeah. And-and so it's like, "Okay, got it. I got it. A little less vibrato. A li--"

Manny Ax: Yeah.

Ray Chen: I call it the less musical Ray that they're going to get. But-

Manny Ax: [laughs] That's-- yeah.

Ray Chen: -other times it-it's just knowing your role, right? It's kinda like when you don't have the main melody in a chamber music piece. Eh, y-you don't- you don't wanna just, like, always be blasting out your line all the time.

Manny Ax: What is your favorite video game, if you have one?

Ray Chen: [laughs] I would never have expected to be asked that question by Emanuel Ax. Oh, my gosh. What is my favorite video game?

Manny Ax: Well, I can tell you what mine is. It's very easy. Mine is Tetris. The reason I really love it is because I'm incredibly inept at it. [laughter] And my kids used to watch me trying to play it and would get hysterical with laughter.

Ray Chen: Oh, my gosh.

Manny Ax: They thought it was the funniest thing in the world, me trying to manipulate this thing moving from side to side, which of course does nothing. [laughs]

Ray Chen: Right. But meanwhile you're playing, like, thousands of notes. Yeah, I do have so many. I-- it's kinda like asking what's your favorite piece. I wouldn't be able to give you one particular title. But the genre of video games that I love are usually open world.

Manny Ax: Mm-hmm.

Ray Chen: So one of my favorite games of all time is Skyrim. We call it RPG, role-playing game, and the concept is that you are in a-- um, gosh, I-I have to explain this in a way that audiences that don't play video games will understand. So it's where you choose your character.

Manny Ax: Uh-huh.

Ray Chen: But every decision that you make affects the storyline, and so that's what makes it really interesting. You're in this fantasy world, there's a lot of fighting involved, but there's also a lot of story involved as well. Several factions are at war with each other, and you're this main character that goes through it all. And it's got great music as well.

Manny Ax: Mm-hmm.

Ray Chen: It's written by Jeremy Soule. It sounds very reminiscent of what you might hear from Howard Shore of Lord of the Rings, but, like, each place, each geography, each region has its own identifiable music. Like, to this day, the Whiterun music is still, like, stuck in my head-

Manny Ax: Huh.

Ray Chen: -just from the hours of gameplay [laughs] that I've been in there.

[music]

Manny Ax: We seem to be, generally speaking, in a video-oriented society, and I wonder, do we still have a role to play in it? Do we still have Bruckner symphonies to listen to, or is that gonna go away because it's too long without video action?

Ray Chen: No, I don't think it's going away anytime soon, to answer your question in one quick sentence. And-and the reason why is because-

Manny Ax: Uh-huh.

Ray Chen: -there's kinda passive listening, and a lot of these streaming platforms have that, right? It's just in the background. I think what you're referring to with the visuals, that's very active listening.

Manny Ax: Mm-hmm.

Ray Chen: And it's kinda linked to social media, the way I view it, as that's the top of the funnel. That's when you're trying to grab people's attention, people who might not be regular or they're just kinda casual classical music fans, or-

Manny Ax: Mm-hmm.

Ray Chen: -they might not even be regular classical music fans. And you're trying to be like, "Hey, here's the most epic part of the Mendelssohn Violin Concerto."

Manny Ax: Yeah.

Ray Chen: I usually have, like, some fire emojis that go along with it. You're trying to grab their attention, and then you funnel them in. Now, what happens next is a very long process to them, and that Bruckner symphony, right, or the Schoenberg Verklärte Nacht, right?

Manny Ax: Yes.

Ray Chen: That's, like, a long journey for them.

Manny Ax: But that's exac-- what I wonder about is, do you feel there will be people who will make the transition from the 5-minute segment to the 45-minute journey?

Ray Chen: Oh, yeah. It's just a matter of making sure that at each stage of the funnel, it gets narrower and narrower, and that's the shape of the funnel, right? It's natural to lose people at each stage. So let's say you have at the top of the funnel-

Manny Ax: Yeah.

Ray Chen: -a 40-second, you know, TikTok, Instagram Reel of Vivaldi Four Seasons, right? That's right at the top of the funnel.

Manny Ax: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Ray Chen: And so I've had some videos that hit over 100 million views, right? That's a lot of people.

Manny Ax: Right.

Ray Chen: That is so wide.

Manny Ax: Yes.

Ray Chen: It would be great if a whole 100 million of those people-

Manny Ax: Yeah.

Ray Chen: -like, started becoming classical music fans, right?

Manny Ax: [laughs] Yeah.

Ray Chen: And so for them, then, there's the next part. Maybe that's like the Bach Prelude [crosstalk].

Manny Ax: Uh-huh.

Ray Chen: And they sort of, like-- funnel goes-goes, uh, goes narrower and narrower, and then you finally get to Bruckner. But unless you widen the funnel, make the whole thing bigger, there's gonna be less and less people reaching the innermost part of the funnel. That's just a scalability kind of question. So when people ask that, "Is classical music gonna die?" I say, "Not if we keep increasing the funnel, it won't die." But if we start to narrow in-

Manny Ax: Mm-hmm.

Ray Chen: -and stop thinking about the widest part of the funnel, then yes, it will become smaller by-- for sure, and that's what's happening. We're seeing that because classical music is being defunded everywhere, right? The top of the funnel used to be huge. It used to be, like, basically everybody in New York City, uh, just taking one city alone, had something to do with classical music through radio, through television.

Manny Ax: Mm-hmm.

Ray Chen: And now, we're seeing it become privatized. Sure, it's moving a lot to these social media platforms, but yeah, it's becoming smaller and smaller. So we have to put ourselves out there now to serve the music to the people and create the top of the funnel all over again.

[music]

Manny Ax: The whole idea of nerves in performance-

Ray Chen: Mm.

Manny Ax: -you seem to feel that as you get closer to the audience, you have less nerves.

Ray Chen: That's correct. I have so many people asking me, "How do you get rid of anxiety? I have stage anxiety, performance anxiety. How do I get rid of it?"

Manny Ax: Yes.

Ray Chen: And my belief is that if your desire is to play and perform and share music in front of people, uh, well, you should practice doing that then. You should practice in front of people.

Manny Ax: Mm-hmm.

Ray Chen: It's the most straightforward answer that I can give.

Manny Ax: Yeah.

Ray Chen: And s-- most people just don't have enough opportunity and access to doing that. And so by being able to play in front of people, which is much w-- of what Tonic is, that's their opportunity, that's their access.

Manny Ax: Do you have any sense of why people are terrified of performing? I mean, I am terrified of performing.

Ray Chen: You are?

Manny Ax: But I don't know why.

Ray Chen: No way.

Manny Ax: Absolutely. I get terribly nervous before every concert, and I'd love to know why.

Ray Chen: I mean, you're about to go into an unknown, but you're also-- I think of it as excitement. There's nerves for sure. There's adrenaline, right?

Manny Ax: Mm-hmm.

Ray Chen: Let's be unbiased for a moment and just call it by-

Manny Ax: Mm-hmm.

Ray Chen: -what it does to the human body.

Manny Ax: Mm.

Ray Chen: There's adrenaline that goes in. I think of nerves as not necessarily a good or bad thing, a positive or negative emotion, but the emotion is the sticker we slap on it, right, through, mm, mm, either positive or negative experiences. So if you have bad experiences with being on stage, then that could be a trigger-

Manny Ax: Yes.

Ray Chen: -right there. But if you have positive ones, and you focus on those, then it's more likely that it's excitement, and kinda like it's about to be your birthday, and so you know it's like something's gonna happen in a good way.

Manny Ax: The perfect situation would be to be excited but not frightened. [chuckles]

Ray Chen: Yes, yes, for sure, especially when it's live-streamed, and they tell you, and everyone's, like-

Manny Ax: Mm-hmm.

Ray Chen: -adjusting the microphones in front of you, and on top of that, you know it's gonna be also on YouTube, or it's gonna be-

Manny Ax: Oh.

Ray Chen: -livestreamed on television.

Manny Ax: I have to tell you [laughter] I am so glad to hear you say that because I'm an oldster now, and coming from my generation, the whole idea of live performance for recording or for television or anything like that is the most frightening thing in the world.

Ray Chen: Oh, absolutely.

Manny Ax: So I'm glad to hear you have a little of that also. [laughs]

Ray Chen: Oh, I-I have a lot of that, and the reason for that is because, you know, it-it-- recordings are done with such care, meticulousness, and it's like I'm ready to present you a legacy piece, not a snapshot-

Manny Ax: Yes.

Ray Chen: -of who I am in that present moment wh-where-where it could be-

Manny Ax: Yes.

Ray Chen: -misinterpreted due to anything.

Manny Ax: Yes.

Ray Chen: It could be a fly that's, like, flying in the air, or maybe a sweat that went into my eye that makes me unable to see. I just don't-

Manny Ax: Yes.

Ray Chen: -want to be-

Manny Ax: Yeah.

Ray Chen: -judged based-

Manny Ax: Yeah.

Ray Chen: -on that particular moment, and so, yeah, that's-

Manny Ax: Yeah. Yeah.

Ray Chen: -something that-- uh, yeah.

Manny Ax: Yeah.

Ray Chen: There's-- definitely anxiety-inducing for me.

Manny Ax: You've brought in some music that you love, Bach's Chaconne.

Ray Chen: I mean, from a player's perspective as well as a listener's perspective,-

Manny Ax: Mm-hmm.

Ray Chen: -it's just so satisfying to both listen and play too.

Manny Ax: Yeah.

Ray Chen: It goes through everything.

Manny Ax: Yeah.

Ray Chen: It's totally my desert island piece. If I could only play one piece and it was my last piece ever, it would be the Bach’s Chaconne.

Manny Ax: Can you play the beginning and tell us what it does?

Ray Chen: Okay. All right, all right. Let me go ahead and make sure my instrument is in tune.

[music]

Ray Chen: All right.

[music]

Ray Chen: So just, I mean, just that beginning, right, is so-

Manny Ax: Mm-hmm.

Ray Chen: -gripping. It's so commanding, and it's so unlike the rest of what Bach wrote for the Sonatas and Partitas as well.

Manny Ax: Mm.

Ray Chen: And, of-of course, I'm playing in a very, what some might call romantic style, where it's much more broader and more emotional, but I think the piece deserves that. It-it-- The vessel of the piece can contain that.

Manny Ax: What you played-

Ray Chen: Yes.

Manny Ax: -was half of the theme. Is that correct?

Ray Chen: That's correct. Yes. So-

Manny Ax: Okay.

Ray Chen: -it's half of the 8-bars Chaconne, the-the-the form that repeats, uh, harmonically.

Manny Ax: For the duration of the piece.

Ray Chen: For the duration of the piece, yeah, and-and we have this middle section which goes to a major, major moment, a major key.

Manny Ax: I guess you could say it's a theme in variations on this harmonic progression, right?

Ray Chen: That's right, that's right.

Manny Ax: And how many variations? Any idea?

Ray Chen: There are 64 variations in Bach’s Chaconne.

Manny Ax: Fabulous.

Ray Chen: And the full repeating unit is 8 bars, so that-- uh, we just heard the 4-bar pattern.

Manny Ax: Would you mind playing the 8 bars? Would that be possible?

Ray Chen: Yes. Let's hear it.

[music]

Manny Ax: That's wonderful [laughs]. Thank you very much.

Ray Chen: Thank you. No, thank you.

Manny Ax: I will also say I'm glad that you only had to tune the violin, 'cause if you had been here for the piano, we would've been an-an hour-and-a-half. [laughter] Thank you for playing that and for mentioning how the piece is kind of structured. As you mentioned, there's a whole area in the middle which is in D major and then going back to D minor, but it's the same basic repetition of the 8-bar kind of harmonic underpinning, right?

Ray Chen: That's right.

That's right. Yeah. But somehow it's never repetitive.

[music]

Ray Chen: It's just this journey, this massive journey.

Manny Ax: Ray, you play a lot of wonderful games on your YouTube channel, so we decided to challenge you today.

Ray Chen: Okay.

Manny Ax: We're hoping you can tell us, Is It a Composer or Is it Cheese?

Ray Chen: Oh, I know this game.

Manny Ax: This will be quite easy for me because I don't know much about the composers, but I know I eat a lot of cheese. [laughter] So I should be able to know that.

Ray Chen: Oh, my gosh. Okay, let's-let's bring it on. Let's-let's hear it.

Manny Ax: Let's start with number one. Gruyère, composer or cheese? Gruyère.

Ray Chen: That's definitely a cheese. That's definitely cheese. I love gruyère.

Manny Ax: Definitely a cheese. I can even describe it. It's a semi-hard cheese made from cow's milk named after the town Gruyère, Switzerland.

Ray Chen: Ah, lovely. Lovely.

Manny Ax: Oh, here's one. Philidor, composer or cheese?

Ray Chen: That feels more like a composer because I don't know the cheese Philidor.

Manny Ax: Absolutely correct.

[music]

Manny Ax: François-André Philidor was an 18th-century composer. He might not be associated with cheese, but he was a great chess player, [laughter] and there are chess moves named after him, actually.

Ray Chen: Wow. So I-

Manny Ax: Yeah. And--

Ray Chen: -didn't know about Philidor, but now I will look him- look him up.

Manny Ax: Yeah. Number three, Brillat-Savarin, composer or cheese?

Ray Chen: Um, actually, this one is stumping me. You know, as someone who-- I wouldn't say that I kn-know either very well in terms of, like, I know all my cheeses or all my composers.

Manny Ax: Mm-hmm.

Ray Chen: I'm gonna go with composer on this one.

Manny Ax: Okay. You would be mistaken.

Ray Chen: Oh, wait, say the name again?

Manny Ax: Brillat-Savarin.

Ray Chen: Oh, was it in the brie? Is it a brie kind of cheese?

Manny Ax: No, no, no.

Ray Chen: No.

Manny Ax: No, no, it's B-R-I-L-L-A-T Savarin.

Ray Chen: And what kind of a cheese is that?

Manny Ax: Named after a famous French gourmet and politician, cow's milk cheese, notes of sweet cream, truffles, and a texture of whipped buttercream. It pairs well with champagne and berries.

Ray Chen: Wow, that sounds so delicious the way you describe it.

Manny Ax: Yeah, yeah, although I-I would say Ravel and Debussy also pair very well with champagne and berries, so--

Ray Chen: That's-that's true. [laughs]

Manny Ax: You know. Yeah, yeah. And number four, Rousseau.

Ray Chen: Rousseau is definitely a composer.

Manny Ax: Right. But-but here's the surprise.

Ray Chen: Oh, no.

Manny Ax: It's also a cheese.

Ray Chen: No. What?

Manny Ax: So there's Jean-Jacques Rousseau, was an 18th-century philosopher, writer, and composer.

Ray Chen: Right.

Manny Ax: But there is also a cheese named after him-

Ray Chen: Oh.

Manny Ax: -then titled-- Entitled Tomme de chèvre Cave Rousseau.

Ray Chen: Wow. Imagine having a cheese named after you. Do you have a cheese named after you?

Manny Ax: Uh, no. [laughs]

Ray Chen: Oh.

Manny Ax: No, no, I'm afraid not.

Ray Chen: The L'Emanuael Ax?

Manny Ax: But-- [laughs]

Ray Chen: Notes of sharp, brie, and really I don't know, like apricot and-- [laughter] Uh, pairs well with the-

Manny Ax: No, I--

Ray Chen: -the finest DRC. [laughs]

Manny Ax: Ye-yeah, I-I think, I-I guess I like potatoes. If I ever do a book, it's gonna be called The Sensuous Potato.

Ray Chen: Oh.

Manny Ax: But [laughs] no, no cheese. So this is Tomme de chèvre Cave Rousseau, a goat cheese aged for a minimum of three months, earthy tangy flavor.

Ray Chen: Oh.

Manny Ax: Pairs well with bread, fruit, and cured meat.

Ray Chen: Oh, my gosh, you're making me so hungry right now.

[music]

Manny Ax: Ray Chen, thank you so much for joining us today.

Ray Chen: Thank you. Thank you so much, Manny.

[music]

Manny Ax: I'm Manny Ax, and this is Classical Music Happy Hour. Classical Music Happy Hour is supported in part by the Robert and Mercedes

Eichholz Foundation and by Linda Nelson. Our production team includes Lauren Purcell-Joiner, Eileen Delahunty, Laura Boyman, Elizabeth Nonamaker, David Norville, Christine Herskovits, and Ed Yim. Our engineering team includes George Wellington, Irene Trudel, and Chase Culpon. Classical Music Happy Hour is produced by WQXR in partnership with Carnegie Hall.

[music continues]

[00:35:11] [END OF AUDIO]

 

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