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Brigid Bergin: You're listening to All Of It. I'm Brigid Bergin in for Alison Stewart. It's been months now since the Writers Guild of America went on strike, and over a month since the Screen Actors Guild joined them. SAG negotiations have completely stalled, and last week, the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers released to the public a counter offer. They have presented to the writers, negotiators, angering union members who felt the move was meant to put on pressure.

It was also recently announced that the highly anticipated blockbuster Dune 2 will be pushed back to 2024. Some other films have already made the decision to move their release dates, and of course, the fall TV schedule might look a little bit different this year. What will this all mean for TV lovers, award season obsessives, and most importantly, workers across the entertainment industry?

Here to give us some updates on how the dual strikes are going, is Samantha Chery, a breaking news reporter at The Washington Post, and listeners for disclosure purposes, New York Public Radio has a collective bargaining agreement with SAG-AFTRA. I am a member of that union, however, our staff belongs to a different branch from the writers and actors, and is not directly involved in either strike.

Finally, listeners, we want to hear from you. Are you someone who has been affected by the strike, either as a union member or someone who works in an adjacent industry? How is morale on the picket lines? How have you felt about the way negotiations are being handled from both sides? How have you been making ends meet during this period of striking? We want to check in about your experiences with the strike, the number is 212-433-9692. That's 212-433-WNYC. You can also reach us on social medias @allofitwnyc.

Samantha, last week, the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers released their most recent counter offer to the press, which seemed to really anger WGA members. Why was the scene as such a provocative move?

Samantha Chery: Yes. Definitely. In looking at this public offer that was now publicized by the AMPTP which is this group that represents some of the major studios that are at odds with the writers right now. One of the biggest things is that the writers feel that in opening this up to the public, they're almost trying to pressure them into taking an offer that the writers don't see as exactly what they're asking for.

Some of the talking points in terms of wanting to increase wages and provide protections from artificial intelligence and how that affects their work, there were some progress made more in the writers' favor with this offer, but the writers see it as not enough.

Brigid Bergin: Sure.

Samantha Chery: For example, looking into the writers room, which was a big major talking point, what writers have seen before they went on strike is that their writers rooms have gotten smaller, and so they haven't been able to then train some early career writers so that they would then build up and have the skills needed to then become showrunners. With that, the AMPTP said they'd guarantee three writers for each TV show or a movie, but the writers are saying it should rather be at least six.

Brigid Bergin: Just broadly speaking, AMPTP, I'm going to butcher my alphabet there, but what do you think the studios were trying to send in terms of the message by releasing that counter-offer publicly?

Samantha Chery: Yes. What I believe the message they were trying to is, I guess, controlling, maybe public opinion of the strikes and what is going on. Being able to then bringing it out to the public, and showing from their perspective what they see as this comprehensive package, would then maybe put pressure on writers if the public is saying, "Oh, this does seem like a great offer."

Brigid Bergin: Sure.

Samantha Chery: Also thinking of how earlier directors had already made a deal, that a lot of the concessions that they were able to make within that deal were also reflected in this one. I guess also the studios may be trying to say, "Oh, well, if the directors agreed to it, the writers should agree to it too."

Brigid Bergin: Sure. Listeners, if you just joined us, you're listening to All Of It on WNYC, and we are doing a strikes update. It has been a big summer for labor, particularly in the entertainment industry and adjacent industries. I'm speaking with Samantha Chery. She's a breaking news reporter from The Washington Post, and we really want to hear how this is affecting you. We know that our listenership has a lot of people who are connected to the unions involved in this strike, to the industries involved in this strike.

We know sometimes it's hard to have this conversation and maybe use your name, so we're open if you can certainly text us as a way if you don't want to go on the air, we will read those texts on air, or you can tell us your first name. I think it's an important part of the story to understand what the experience has been. What's the morale like at the picket lines? How have we been making ends meet during this strike? Our number is 212-433-9692. That's 212-433-WNYC.

Samantha, one of the biggest issues that I understand is related to residuals. What does this latest proposal from the studios reveal about how far they're willing to move on that issue? What were they actually offering?

Samantha Chery: Yes. Definitely. A big thing about the residuals, especially in terms of the era of streaming, was that writers weren't able to know exactly how popular or how viewed their streaming projects were, and that typically in traditional television would determine how much they would get in residuals. What the studios were able to offer were these confidential, quarterly viewership reports, that they would give to the writers union based on how the viewership for a lot of these streaming projects.

What the writers union is then saying is that this isn't enough because they wouldn't be allowed to share those reports with the writers and be able to then allow the writers to see exactly and be able to, I guess, advocate for the residuals that they feel they deserve according to viewership.

Brigid Bergin: Interesting. What did the writers you talked to have to say about that part of the proposal? How did they think it should be? Did they have an idea of what they wanted it to include?

Samantha Chery: Yes, definitely. In terms of just being able to have that transparency, they feel that if they have a popular show that should be reflected within their residuals. They feel that it's just in terms of fairness, not just have whatever they pay they get at first, but to then have just that incentive to be able to see that their viewership and their performance is reflected in their pay.

Brigid Bergin: Let's go to the phones. Nick in Brooklyn. Nick, thanks for calling All Of It.

Nick: Hi. Thank you for having me.

Brigid Bergin: How's the strike affecting you?

Nick: Yes. I'm a sound mixer in Local 52, and I'm also a shop steward, so I'm familiar with contracts and how set protocol goes. The strike is not good. There's a trickle effect especially with the amount of labor that's involved when sound work is slow. I work on film construction crews, so that's also like the assembling of the sets and whatnot. If things don't happen before the end of October, because that's when everything starts to slow down until the next year. We're talking about film production ramping back up and a construction crews building to set. It takes months and months of pre-production before the shooters are even back out on location and in the studios.

People are going to start running out of unemployment. I was fortunate to get a union reality gig after my main show ended right before the strike but a lot of people have been out of work since the holidays just because of everything that was halted because of the possibilities of a strike. We're talking about hundreds of thousands of people. We're not talking about tens of thousands of people.

Brigid Bergin: Absolutely. Nick, thank you so much for that call. I'm glad you were able to find something on a reality show. In the meantime, I want to read another text that we received. The listener writes, "I, in 764, the Wardrobe Union, and many of my fellow film workers in the union haven't had film work since the end of last year." A lot of what we just heard from that caller. "I specifically build the costumes. Luckily, I am barely able to make ends meet by picking up freelance theater work but that doesn't pay into my health insurance or retirement. I interviewed for some teaching positions but nothing came through. The uncertainty is exhausting, and I don't know anyone in the industry who doesn't side with the striking workers."

Again, we're doing a strikes update here on All Of It on WNYC. My guest is Samantha Chery from The Washington Post. More on the status of the negotiations and your calls coming up. Stick around.

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This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Brigid Bergin, and we're checking back in on the status of some major strikes impacting the entertainment industry, and those industries that are adjacent to it--the writer's strike, the actor's strike. I'm speaking with Samantha Chery, breaking news reporter from The Washington Post.

Listeners, we started this conversation actually about a month ago when I was filling in for Alison Stewart. We know that this has been something that has been a struggle for people in our region for the weeks since. We want to know how have you been affected by this strike, either as a union member, and either one of these unions, the Writer's Union or the Screen Actors' Guild, or someone who works in an adjacent industry. How is your morale? How are you coping? How are you getting by? How are you feeling about the way negotiations are being handled from both sides? What do you make of the reports that you're reading about the offers and counter offers that are being made? We want to check in about your experiences with the strikes. The number is 212-433-9692. That's 212-433-WNYC. You can also reach us on social medias @allofitwnyc.

Samantha, you mentioned this before about the topic of the writer's room, and requiring a certain number of writers to be hired for each project. It sounds like there has been some progress made in terms of the offers there. Just give us quickly the update on what the status of that is.

Samantha Chery: Yes. In terms of the writer's room, so basically, the writers who are then being staffed to write television shows and movies. The offer from the studios was to have at least three people in the writer's room. That would include the showrunner and then at least two mid-level staff writers. On the writer's side, they're saying that's not enough in terms of wanting to then bring on some early career writers. That's where they got that they want at least six.

Brigid Bergin: You mentioned again, this role of showrunner. It's a nebulous thing that we've really seen it been popping up more in television in recent years. Have there been efforts to try and really codify the rule, define what it actually means?

Samantha Chery: Yes. With showrunners so that's the term they use for basically the top-level writer. It's sometimes synonymous with an executive producer. Basically, these will be usually the big names that you'll see first either in the opening or the ending credits. A big part of it is these are the people that are very much credited with being able to create the show.

Brigid Bergin: We're getting some really interesting texts, Samantha, one regarding the SAG strike. The listener writes, "There are so many people in the film and TV business who aren't union members, and therefore unqualified for financial relief or other union benefits. These people are generally at the bottom of the pay scale. In general, though they're extremely supportive of the unions."

Another listener writes, "I'm a location manager in Local 817. I haven't worked since February. They tell us to have six months of emergency rainy day funds. Six months is how much we can bank health insurance. Six months is the length of unemployment. What do we do now? The work stoppage is decimating our industry. I've had to get roommates to continue to make ends meet a lot of different experiences there.

We have a listener, Max from Manhattan who's on the line. Max, welcome to WNYC. What's your experience with this?

Max: Hi, guys. Thanks. I've been a Screen Actor Guild member for my entire working career. That's my livelihood. As all creatives are able, we can live on a dime. We can spin on a dime. We're survivors. The dire consequences and profound prevailing negative residue of this complex discussion is that corporate America has no concern for the creatives of the world.

They're essentially friends of mine in the industry in Australia. I'm sorry. I am a little bit upset. Clearly, it impacts all of us. It's very upsetting on a grand scale, but the industry is thriving. There's big streaming corporations. It just basically moved offshore. Apparently, the industry is thriving. They're just hiring and outsourcing, and using AI in major studios in Sydney.

They've just taken their work, and they've put it elsewhere. They're biting their time. We have to stick with it on a moral-- It's a distribution. It comes back to that old argument, distribution of wealth. It's about sharing the profits and the spoils with the people that are quite happy to put their lives on, like mine on ice, emptying our savings, while we fight for the bigger fight.

Brigid Bergin: Max, thank you for that call. You could hear that stress in her voice, Samantha, but she raised something that I know has been an ongoing concern throughout the strike in the negotiations, which is the use of artificial intelligence, AI. What progress, if any, has been made on that issue in these negotiations?

Samantha Chery: Yes. Basically, a lot of the fear is that AI will then be used as source material. Basically, the original material that then writers would only be tasked with rewriting or basically editing. The studios have said that this won't be just a rewrite task for writers, and that the writers credit won't be affected by the use of AI. What is still to be discussed between the different parties is whether the writing of the human writers whether that will be used to train the artificial intelligence. That's still in the negotiations and still being discussed.

Brigid Bergin: Let's talk a little bit about SAG. It seems like those negotiations have stalled SAG in the studios, haven't even made it to the negotiating table that much. What's going on there?

Samantha Chery: Yes. For them it has been at a standstill. NathanCrabtree-Ireland, who is the chief negotiator for SAG, he has said that the actor's union is just waiting on the call from studios to be able to get back into the negotiating table. They said they're ready whenever that comes. It's likely that the same way that studios then invited writers to resume talks that at some point it'll be the same for actors.

Brigid Bergin: We're getting in some more texts. A listener writes, "IATSE, the film, and union for Cruise, we honor the WGA/SAG strikes. My vendors are also suffering. The people who make textiles and the prop houses. If we don't work, they don't get our business. Also, DGA negotiated a completely different contract. Streaming contracts killed the actors' residuals. Without a real effort in tracking how content is sold, the actors don't have a chance for proper residuals like the old days." Thank you for that text.

Thanks to our listeners for participating in this conversation. We know this is a hard time for many of our listeners, and as has been pointed out, we're not talking about a small population. We're talking about thousands of workers here, not just actors, not just writers, but all of the people that interact with those unions.

Samantha, just last week, it was announced that Dune 2 was going to be pushed back to 2024, and there have been a few other films that have been pushed back. What goes into that kind of decision on the studio's end to push a big blockbuster movie back sort of briefly?

Samantha Chery: Yes. A big part of the production it takes all these months to go through the writing and filming process. Because of the strikes, that process has been delayed, which then pushes back the date of these big blockbuster movies.

Brigid Bergin: What are some of the other big projects that have been pushed back?

Samantha Chery: We're looking at pushbacks for Avatars 3, 4, and 5.

Brigid Bergin: Oh, wow.

Samantha Chery: As well as, yes, several Marvel movies as well, including The Avengers. Definitely, [laughs] for a lot of sequels.

Brigid Bergin: This means, in some cases, you've got projects that may be completed already. How has SAG responded to the studios pushing back the launch date for finished work?

Samantha Chery: Yes. I think the big thing is because actors aren't able to promote their work when they're on strike. A big decision might just be to delay it so that they are able to promote it once they're off strike.

Brigid Bergin: In terms of morale, what are you hearing from either of the union's members that you've talked to as you've been reporting in this story? We heard it in our listeners, people are pretty weary that are in these unions, but do they have the fortitude to keep going?

Samantha Chery: Yes. It definitely has been much of a struggle that I've heard from these writers and actors, but with that understanding that basically if they don't get the deal that they need, it'll be much worse, having to work under conditions that don't allow the continuation of their careers.

Brigid Bergin: Well, we are going to have to leave it there. I'm so grateful for our listeners who texted, who called, who participated in this conversation. We know that this is a tough thing to talk about, but there is so much more to watch here. At this point, it has no end in sight, and for that, we can turn back to Samantha Chery, who covers breaking news for The Washington Post. She gave us an update on the writers' strikes and the actors' strikes. Thank you so much for joining me.

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