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Alison Stewart: This is All Of It. I'm Allison Stewart, live from the WNYC studios in Soho. Thank you for sharing part of your day with us. Whether you're listening on the radio, live streaming on-demand, or on demand, I'm grateful you're here, and I'm really grateful if you've made a contribution to WNYC for our pledge drive, and big special thanks to everybody who came out to the New York Public Library last night for our Get Lit with All Of It book club conversation with Lone Women author Victor LaValle, and everybody who watched the live stream, we had a really great time.

We learned the backstory of how Victor came up with the name of the villainous family in the book. Let's just say, if you cross a writer in real life, don't be surprised when your name is in the pages of his next novel, his or her next novel, their next novel. You'll be able to hear excerpts of that Get Lit conversation along with musical performance from Kaia Kater, fantastic on the banjo. That will be on Friday's show. That's later in the week, but let's get this hour with started with a chat about the H-word, house guests.

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Alison Stewart: More than 42 million Americans are expected to travel over the upcoming holiday weekend according to a AAA report, the busiest Memorial Day weekend since 2005. Some of the top destinations include Vegas, Atlanta, San Francisco, and New York City. A quick hotel search reveals the average hotel room in New York City on a holiday weekend is about $300 a night. Don't be that surprised when a friend or family member who says, "I'm coming to New York," means, "I'm coming to New York. Can I crash with you?"

With that in mind, we're going to go over a few tips on how to be a gracious host and how to be a decent house guest. Joining us is the Judge John Hodgman. It's a podcast, people have their most pressing issues from umbrella etiquette to wedding proposals answered by a self-described famous minor television personality. Of course, we're talking about John Hodgman himself. Hi, John. Welcome back.

John Hodgman: Hello, I'm glad to be here.

Alison Stewart: Also, joining us is John's co-host and producer Jesse Thorn, also known as Bailiff Jesse on the podcast. Jesse, hi.

Jesse Thorn: Hi, Allison. How are you?

Alison Stewart: Doing great. Listeners, we want to hear from you. Do you plan on hosting overnight guests, friends, or relatives this weekend? How are you preparing your home to make them feel comfortable? What do you think makes someone a good host or a good house guest? What is the rudest thing a guest has done while staying overnight? [chuckles] How did you handle it? How do you wish you had handled it? Let me tell you, we've got some answers on that one already. Give us a call, 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC, or reach out to us on social media @AllOfItWNYC. This has clearly touched off a nerve because we have a slew of questions already on social media. Let's set the table, shall we say? John, what is something, one important thing to consider and or take care of before a guest steps into your house? A house guest.

John Hodgman: Well, guests and hosts have specific obligations. When I heard that report from AAA about how many people are going to be traveling this year, I took the liberty of nailing my door shut and barricading it-

[laughter]

John Hodgman: -because people want in. People want into your New York apartments. Here's what I'm going to say, first of all, to potential house guests, absolutely do show up with a thoughtful present. Bring something from your part of the world that you can't get in New York. I don't know whether it's a hot sauce, what else, Jessie? What would you bring for me?

Jesse Thorn: I'm welcoming all guests from New Orleans, and I'm asking that they bring me deep-fried peanuts, which I ate out of a bag from the grocery store in New Orleans and haven't stopped thinking about since. You eat the whole thing, including the shell, Alison.

John Hodgman: Of course, we eat the shell. It's delicious, yes.

Jesse Thorn: So good.

John Hodgman: Do not redecorate the person's apartment for them.

Jesse Thorn: Classic mistake.

John Hodgman: I have a very close friend who I will not name, Ken Plume, who stayed in my office, which has this pulled-out sofa in it. For a period of time, it was wonderful to have him, and when I reoccupied my office where I do my work, I found a poster for a very strange Turkish science fiction movie called Badi, B-A-D-I. Now that was impolite of Ken to choose wall decoration for me. It's a wild poster though, I have to say, and it's come to grow on me, but that was really pushing the envelope, Ken.

Alison Stewart: This brings me to my next question, Jesse, do you set up ground rules upfront? What are some important ground rules to set up as soon as your guest arrives?

Jesse Thorn: I think it's so important to suss out what the transaction is.

John Hodgman: Yes, you've got to suss.

Jesse Thorn: This is deeply-- If you don't suss, it's very sus.

John Hodgman: Yes, right.

Jesse Thorn: I think you have to know what the expectations of your host are and what the expectations of your guest are. That doesn't mean that you have to have a Yalta conference, but it does mean that when that invitation comes, it should be a clear invitation, and when that request comes, it should be presented clearly and presented in such a way that it can be politely declined, if that's what's better.

John Hodgman: Yes, and I think that communication is so key. You, as host, should feel free to speak truthfully to your guest and presume that they're speaking truthfully back to you. I would say for guests, be prepared to take no for an answer. If you're there already and you offer to cook a meal in their kitchen or wash the dishes or strip the bed when you leave or whatever, and your host says, "Don't worry about that. I'll take care of it." Believe them, it's fine.

They probably have some weird system of their own they don't want you messing around with, or maybe they keep poisonous snakes in their kitchen cupboards and they want you to live. It's important to always help if you're going to offer help, and you should, in the way you are asked to help. Helping the way you want to help is never helping, but if you say, "How can I help?" Accept the task that you're given. If you're not given a task, it's fine. Don't do it.

Jesse Thorn: No, I will say this, Alison, we asked on all Judge John Hodgman's social media, what people's house guest beefs were, and one woman wrote in that she has family members who asked her to do chores the entire time that she's there. I think she might be, it's possible she's confusing her family members with those organic farmers that have someone stay at their house in exchange for labor.

[laughter]

Jesse Thorn: I think graciousness includes the guest offering to be helpful. Indeed, being helpful in ways like stripping the bed after they're done visiting.

John Hodgman: Jesse, don't strip the bed. I'm telling you for years when you come and visit me, don't strip the bed. I've got a plan for that. Don't worry about it.

Alison Stewart: I'm so glad to clear that up.

Jesse Thorn: John just hoses down the bed. He just spreads fresh hay.

[laughter]

John Hodgman: No, I'll tell you about it later. I'll say something about that Judge John Hodgman listener who wrote in saying, "My family makes me do chores the entire time I'm there," and it feels like farm work that they're talking about. That's a miscommunication, right? Because what those family members are saying is, "We don't want you here. We don't want you to visit us." Instead of simply saying that and owning their truth, they're trying to train their family members to not visit them. They should just be able to say that. "It's just not convenient for us to have you in our home. Let me help you find another accommodation around here where you can be comfortable and not have to mow the back 40 or whatever."

Jesse Thorn: I'm not 100% sure what a scullery is, but if your family invites you to stay in their scullery, that means they don't want you to come.

John Hodgman: They don't want you to, yes.

Alison Stewart: How many degrees of separation is appropriate for someone to stay?

John Hodgman: Zero.

Alison Stewart: My cousin-- Zero? Well, let's say my cousin's girlfriend is going to be in New York. Is that too many degrees of separation? Do we stop at the cousin?

John Hodgman: You need me to talk to your cousin's girlfriend about this?

Jesse Thorn: Here's your cousin's girlfriend on the line, Alison. We'll hash this out. [laughs]

John Hodgman: Here's my rule of thumb. You do accept an invitation to stay with a friend or a family member if it is freely offered. Do not ask to 'crash' on a friend's couch if you're over 35 in most of the country, or New York City, if you're over 50, [chuckles] then you get 15 extra years to crash on a friend's couch, but you should also not be bullied into taking someone in if it's not convenient for you or if you don't have the room, space, and ability to make them comfortable, which means providing them ideally with a room with a door, or a very nice air mattress or something in a shared space that you're able to make clean and neutral feeling for them.

If you don't have those things, you know, look, for bad and for bad, we live in the era of Airbnb, and in most parts of the country, it's reasonable to say, "Let me help you find accommodations that would be comfortable for you, and I'd love to see you while you're here."

Jesse Thorn: Now, there are exceptions for show folk, right, John?

John Hodgman: Yes, that's true. There is a carny exception. If you're an actor--

Alison Stewart: I feel like you all are working something out on your own.

John Hodgman: No,no, no [crosstalk]

Alison Stewart: I feel like, is there something you need to say, Jesse, to John?

John Hodgman: No, no, no. First of all, Jesse is not 50. He can come crash anytime, and I love him. He knows that, but we're both show folk, right? We're carnies. If you're in a rock band or you're an actor, or you're a comedian or a podcaster, or any of the other loathsome poverty trades that require travel, you can ask to crash in that person's place if you're willing to reciprocate. Don't say, "Can I crash?" Just say, "Would it be convenient if I stayed with you for X periods of days?" If I say, "Nah," then don't.

Jesse Thorn: I'll say this, when I was on tour doing sketch comedy, my entire sketch comedy group slept in a modular parking garage, a two-car parking garage that had been converted into a backyard community theater. It was fine. We slept on some burning man furniture they had in there. The problem was that there was only one door, but there were no windows. Once that door had been closed and the lights were out, you couldn't see anything. That led to my comedy partner Jordan waking up in the middle of the night with biological needs and after some time pawing at the interior walls, being ungracious towards this host.

Alison Stewart: This is like that bad Jordan Peele movie. I'm terrified.

[laughter]

Jesse Thorn: That's what doing comedy is, Alison.

John Hodgman: I think there's a reason that one of the most prolific sub-genres of horror movies is a home invasion. [laughs] You have to understand that on a certain level, no matter how close this friend or family member is, you look like you're wearing a mask to them and that you are breaking into their home to disrupt their lives.

Jesse Thorn: I was certain you were going to say that the most prolific genre of horror movie is [laughs] 'Drank too much. Can't find a bathroom.'

John Hodgman: Yes. There's that as well.

Alison Stewart: From Twitter, "My worst house guest broke both my refrigerators within two days. He made piping hot lentil soup and put the hot soup into glass containers and into the fridge and freezer in two separate units, leaving with no fridge for month as it was during the pandemic." Did not see the hot lentils coming.

John Hodgman: Is this person writing in from New York City and they have two refrigerators? I want to check out this house.

Alison Stewart: [laughs] Let's talk--

John Hodgman: I want to sleep there.

Jesse Thorn: This is Michael Bloomberg.

Alison Stewart: Right. Let's talk to Beth from Greenpoint. Hey, Beth.

Beth: Hi. Can you hear me?

Alison Stewart: Yes, you're on the air. Go for it.

Beth: Great. Wow. Okay. First time, in a long time. This was about, I don't know, maybe 18 years ago. My now husband, we were just engaged. He's from England, so we were living with my parents. He was waiting for his visa. My mom had a friend come stay with her out in the suburbs because she had a facelift and she didn't want anyone in her upper Manhattan apartment to see her recovery. I'm at therapy, I'm doing my thing. My husband's home alone with her, and my husband runs a bath and he's on the phone with his dad, loses complete track of time and overflows and water is pouring like a waterfall through the center light fixture.

I just pull in, I'm feeling great, and he is carrying rugs and rugs out from Okinawa when my grandfather was in the war out into the backyard to dry them. I just lose my mind. I walk in, I see this waterfall of water pouring through the light fixture, and this woman with her completely bruised, taped up face, nothing wrong with it, but that's just setting the scene. Popped her head out and asked my husband if he could put on the BBC for her, so she would like to watch the news. I look and I'm just frozen.

John Hodgman: As your home is collapsing.

Beth: Yes. My parent's home. I'm just like, he was supposed to propose and now we're not going to get married. You're not going to get a visa. [laughs] My whole like, nightmare. My parents, to be honest, were amazing about it. It was very-- now, we can laugh. Yes, he offered to fix it. My dad was great. They took care of it. No one got hurt. Everything was fine, but I was like, the BBC, do you see what's happening like this? This house, it's going to collapse. I pictured the entire second floor falling down through the roof.

Alison Stewart: I can tell Beth is reliving it right now. That's a lot, Beth.

Jesse Thorn: Alison, John is in Brooklyn. I'm in Los Angeles. I'm just experiencing this as just a pure representation of New Yorkiness. Oh, there's a woman from the Upper West Side getting a facelift, and there's a British husband that wants to listen to the-- and I'm like, "Let's bring in a bialy and Mister Mat and call it a day.

[laughter]

John Hodgman: Yes. You've got to be careful with the people's homes that you're visiting. You don't want to break any of their refrigerators by putting hot soup in there, which is a definite no-no. With regard to water, be extra careful. They say you can hide from the wind in a natural disaster, but you've got to run from water. That stuff is unstoppable. You can watch the tub when you're filling it up, for heaven's sake.

Alison Stewart: Patricia says, "Guests should have a packing list. I also sweep their room before they leave and have my own list. Coats, phone cords, toothbrushes, items left in the shower, scarves, hats, et cetera. They swear they have everything and they never do. Stop jamming the carrot. Just A-S-K. Appreciate the emphasis on that one.

John Hodgman: That's some high-level checklist communication, but I feel that part of the reason for having house guests is to get free phone cords. [laughs] That's how I replenish them. All right. [unintelligible 00:15:30] , I suppose.

Alison Stewart: Jasmink on Facebook, Jesse, he wants to know if guests do laundry in your house, should they clean out the lint? Also, should guests help themselves to your hairbrush or any other personal hygiene items?

Jesse Thorn: No. If guests are doing laundry at their house, they should light their ducks on fire.

John Hodgman: Look, you have to clean out the lint. This all comes up on Judge John Hodgman all the time. When to clean out the lint trap of your dryer. You have to do it before each use. Should the person who used it before you have cleaned it out already? Absolutely. That's the polite thing to do. Be mindful of the work you leave for others. Do you want to take the risk of your clothes dryer catching on fire? No. Clean it out yourself. Double it up. Absolutely. Don't use other people's hairbrushes, for heaven's sake.

One time someone was visiting a friend of mine named Charles. He was actually visiting his girlfriend in the apartment that she shared with Charles. He used Charles's toothbrush. They were in their 20s at the time. They were barely human, but Charles was so upset about it that he put the toothbrush in a pot of boiling water and left it boiling all day so the person could see what was happening.

Alison Stewart: Oh.

John Hodgman: Replenished the water as it evaporated.

Alison Stewart: That is a masterclass in passive-aggressive. Wow.

John Hodgman: Let it speak.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Craig from Riverdale. Hi, Craig. Thanks for calling in.

Craig: Hey guys, how you doing? When you go to someone's house for dinner, you usually bring like, you ask dessert or wine or something like that. In three months I'm going to a destination wedding in Florida. It's my one of my best friend's relatives, but his family's very big. I thought I was staying at his place, but I'm staying at friends adjacent who I've met a few times but we are not that close, but they're generously letting me stay because of how I'm friends with this other guy. Do I bring food, alcohol? Do I do some reconnaissance? What they like? What they need? What's the Emily Post's version?

John Hodgman: What's the destination?

Craig: Florida.

John Hodgman: Florida, okay. You're traveling from New York?

Craig: Yes.

John Hodgman: New York City? Bring them a New York City thing. Bring them--

[crosstalk]

Jesse Thorn: Mister Mat.

Craig: I live in Riverdale, LeBronx.

John Hodgman: Yes. Get some New York City bagels, the real ones and bring them down.

Alison Stewart: A good Babka.

John Hodgman: Yes, for example. That would be very nice. What else could they bring, Jesse?

Jesse Thorn: Aaron judge.

John Hodgman: That's right. Bring Aaron Judge down. Good idea. Everyone loves that.

Alison Stewart: Thanks for staying away from politics on that one. I appreciate that in your answers. Okay. Here is Brent on Instagram. He and his best friend Matt will argue about taking off shoes in the house. Is he wrong to ask them to remove their, "Hoof covers?"

Jesse Thorn: This is the richest vein of Judge John Hodgman's content. I would say 35% of all Judge John Hodgman-submitted disputes are about shoes in the house.

John Hodgman: I think that this needs to be normalized more than it is now. There's always going to be Matts in your life that are going to argue this point, but wearing shoes into someone else's house is gross. It doesn't mean that it doesn't happen, but you shouldn't be surprised if someone says, "Will you please take off your shoes?" This is, you are walking through all kinds of stuff out there in the world. The polite thing to do in cultures where this is perfectly normal to the point of being unavoidable, is you provide house shoes, house slippers, or something like that. If you're making that request, then you need to provide them with suitable coverings because what if their feet stink?

Jesse Thorn: Yes. I think the ultimate question is that if you are the guest, it's your responsibility to defer to the cultural expectations of your hosts. This is a subject of much controversy among Judge John Hodgman listeners, but I live in a shoes-on home. I wear my shoes in the house. I live in California. There's not sludge or mud that I'm walking through, but there's other things on the sidewalk. I live in a shoes-on house, but never in a million years would I dream of showing up to someone's house. They're, there in house shoes or socks. There's a rack of shoes by the front door, and I say, "No, I won't take off my shoes." That's bananas.

John Hodgman: Yes. That's monstrous. Also, wear clean socks all the time.

Alison Stewart: Jeff from Long Island City. Hi, Jeff. Thanks for calling All Of It. You're on the air.

Jeff: Hi, Alison. Good afternoon and good afternoon, John and Jesse. I am a de facto fan of yours and I went to your recent show. It's the Lincoln Center. My partner, my long-term girlfriend, and she's a massive fan. I'm a de facto fan.

Jesse Thorn: You're a fan-in-law.

[laughter]

John Hodgman: We support it. We're all for it. Appreciate that.

Jeff: Thank you. Here's my story. I thought it was very apropos in the moment. Some years ago now, I had an opportunity to be an expat in London. I was married at the time and ended up staying over many years. I always told friends and family they could come and visit because I wanted them to be able to take advantage of my good fortune and my opportunity. I only have one first cousin and she's a couple of years younger. I forget why she was coming over across the pond, that she was coming over and asked if she could stay with me. I said, of course. She came and she stayed, and then she went out and saw the museums and whatever.

What I didn't know was that she had, I guess, previously met a young man at a wedding in the States who was from Manchester, UK. I guess during the day, this gentleman came down to see her again and helped her enjoy the sites and everything. I had to work. After work, we met up for, frankly, drinks and lots more drinks, and then eventually we got around the food. Before we knew it, we all had a lot of drinks and a little bit of food, and it was about midnight.

My cousin informed me that her guest, obviously-

John Hodgman: Although in England at midnight it's called sixpence, but go ahead.

Jeff: -he wouldn't be able to take a train back to Manchester, which I had long figured out and was waiting for when this shoe was going to drop. She asked if he could stay. I, of course, said yes because I wasn't going to put the young man out on the street. Of course, I didn't expect him to stay for another three days, but he did. At the end, it was very interesting. It was very weird. He bought several bottles of wine and he was very, I think, apologetic and semi-embarrassed.

John Hodgman: Why did he stay for several days? I have to ask you. That's not very Mancunian of him. They know better up there.

Jesse Thorn: Was this Morrissey? He has a bad reputation.

Jeff: [laughs]. Well, I think you would have to ask my cousin why he stayed a couple of extra days.

John Hodgman: Well, I know why. The cousin wanted him there. He's saying, what was his excuse? Look, even if it is by guile that somehow your house guest brings another house guest into your home, even if it's by like, "Whoops, missed the train, didn't know how to read an English watch." That one night is fine, that's an emergency, but to extend beyond that is not okay. That Mancunian should have gotten out of there on the first train out in the morning. Otherwise, they should get a room in a hotel or something.

Alison Stewart: Last question, Jesse. Am I responsible to be a concierge of sorts if someone is staying at my house? Do I have that responsibility?

Jesse Thorn: What kind of concierge services are we talking about here? Are you talking about getting tickets? [laughs].

John Hodgman: Getting Broadway show tickets.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: My guests have been John Hodgman and Jesse-- [laughs].

John Hodgman: I think being generous is fun. That's why people have house guests rather than bolting the doors shut. If you have stuff that you can offer to enhance their stay that you feel like sharing, if you have extra Broadway tickets or an in at Bar Centrale or whatever, that's a lot of fun. You're never obligated. You're never obligated to have some weird Mancunian boyfriend in your house.

Jesse Thorn: I was visiting New York, staying with Hodgman, and I met Nico Lowry, one of my heroes from the Antiques Roadshow. Nico Lowry said, "Come have drinks with me at the Players Club which I thought was only a rap in forte song. I did not realize it was a real edifice. That kind of thing, yes, go to town. That makes everybody feel great.

John Hodgman: You were visiting me, I didn't expect Nico Lowry to live in my house for three weeks after that.

Jesse Thorn: Well, [chuckles] he needed a place to stay. He travels with a lot of plaid suits.

Alison Stewart: My guests have been Jesse Thorn and John Hodgman answering all your house guest and host questions. Gentlemen, thank you for your wisdom.

John Hodgman: Thank you very much.

Jesse Thorn: Thank you and I hope folks will support WNYC. I hear it's drive time.

John Hodgman: That's right.

Alison Stewart: That's a segue.

 

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