[MUSIC - Luscious Jackson: Citysong]

Alison Stewart: This is All Of It. I'm Alison Stewart, live from the WNYC studios in Soho. Thank you for spending part of your day with us. Whether you're listening on the radio, live streaming, or on demand, I'm grateful you're here. On today's show, we'll speak with Klancy Miller, the author of For The Culture: Phenomenal Black Women and Femmes in Food: Interviews, Inspiration and Recipes. We'll take your calls and questions about getting your garden ready for winter with Stephen Orr, the editor-in-chief of Better Homes and Gardens. Join us for that conversation, and you can call in and ask questions.

We'll hear from author Nana Kwame Adjei-Brenyah, whose novel Chain Gang All Stars is a finalist for this year's National Book Awards. Such a good book. That is our plan. Let's get this started with some artists making the jump from concert stage to silver screen.

[MUSIC - Taylor Swift: Cruel Summer]

Fever dream high in the quiet of the night

You know that I caught it

Bad, bad boy

Shiny toy with a price

You know that I bought it

Killing me slow, out the window

I'm always waiting for you to be waiting below

Devils roll the dice, angels roll their eyes

What doesn't kill me makes me want you more

And it's new, the shape of your body

It's blue, the feeling I've got

And it's ooh, whoa, oh

It's a cruel summer

Alison Stewart: She broke a record. Taylor Swift, The Eras Tour, documenting the initial leg of her 2023 Mega Tour is the highest-grossing domestic concert film ever. While Swift is certainly the biggest draw of the moment, other concert films have been bringing fans to the movies. Talking Heads classic, Stop Making Sense, was re-released last month in honor of its 40th anniversary and set a record for IMAX Theater sales. When Beyonce, whose blockbuster Renaissance Tour wrapped in the US this month, she said she'd be coming out with a concert film in December. It garnered 7 million in pre-sales the day it was announced.

That got us thinking about concert films in general. We asked NPR's Stephen Thompson to join us to discuss not only what makes a good concert film, but what are some of the best that have been released in history. Of course, you know Stephen from NPR's Pop Culture, Happy Hour, one of my favorite podcasts. Hi, Stephen.

Stephen Thompson: Hi, Alison.

Alison Stewart: Thanks for being with us.

Stephen Thompson: It is my pleasure.

Alison Stewart: Listeners, let's get you in on this conversation. What is your favorite concert movie and why? Have you recently gone to see Stop Making Sense or did you see The Eras Tour movie over the weekend? How many of you have already got your Beyonce tickets? I do. We're talking concert movies, and we want to hear from you. Give us a call, 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. You can join us on the air and chat, or you can text to us at that number if that's more convenient. Of course, our social media is available as well @allofitwnyc. We're talking concert films, and we're going to hear some great music. Stephen, what makes a good concert film in your eyes?

Stephen Thompson: I think anything that captures that communal experience and that overwhelming feeling of joy that comes from a great concert. One of the hardest things to do in music is capture live energy in a recording. The great concert films find a way to do that. They do it through expert sound engineering. They do it through lighting. They do it by bringing in skilled directors. You have some of the biggest directors of all time have stepped into direct concert films. There is an enormous amount of artistry to it. It's not as simple as plugging a jack into the soundboard in order to capture a concert experience.

You really want to capture the feeling of being there as best you can while also providing some greater context. Some of the greatest concert films have some historical component to it that the film can kind of tap into in order to put the performance in a clearer context.

Alison Stewart: Does it have to be a great concert to be a great film?

Stephen Thompson: Boy, that's a really good question. I guess it really depends on how juicy the backstage drama might be. I've definitely had the experience with some concert films of wanting more concerts, feeling like I'm getting a prepackaged artist-approved documentary. That's what the artist wants you to see about the making of the spectacle. Sometimes I just want to sit and steep in the music. I think, in general, you want to have electrifying source material if you're going to have an electrifying film.

Alison Stewart: Do you have a recollection of the first concert film you saw or one of the first?

Stephen Thompson: Oh, that's a really good question. No, it might be Madonna's: Truth or Dare.

Alison Stewart: We're going to get to that.

[laughter]

Stephen Thompson: She was so, so, so, so, so, so huge. It was capturing the 1990 Blond Ambition tour, and it was a concert film that really seeped into the public consciousness to the point where there were a lot of parodies. I remember a Julie Brown parody of that film called Medusa: Dare to be Truthful. There were scenes from that film that were-- The scenes from Truth or Dare that became the subject of parody and commentary and tied into the way we see Madonna. Honestly, my earliest memory, though, would have to be Spinal Tap, which is not technically a concert film, but certainly is parodying and playing off of a lot of the tropes associated with those films.

Alison Stewart: I think the one that really changed my life was Rolling Stones' Let's Spend The Night Together. I was like, "This is rock and roll, and I am in." 16-year-old me was very excited about that in 1982.

Stephen Thompson: Exactly. This is rock and roll and I get to watch it.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: Let's talk about Taylor Swift, kicked off in March. The tour in the US, will continue overseas, on track to be the highest-grossing concert ever, taking in more than $1 billion. We just learned this morning. Highest-grossing domestic concert film ever. Why does a concert film make sense for her?

Stephen Thompson: I think there's surplus demand. Anytime you're trying to sell a concert tour, you have supply and demand issues. How many people are interested in buying tickets in each city? Will we be able to fill these venues? The thing is, Taylor Swift is arguably the biggest star in the world right now and has cult-like devotion on top of massive mainstream popularity. You have people who are going to these concerts, plunking down enormous sums of money, having these wonderful communal experiences, posting about them on social media, but there's also a lot of FOMO.

I like Taylor Swift, I like these albums. I'd go to a Taylor Swift concert, but am I going to plunk down X number of dollars in order to do so, and can I even get a ticket even with my media connections? There is overwhelming interest in seeing this tour. Making a different kind of communal experience instead of the Taylor Swift Eras Tour is in New York City this week, everybody in New York City is talking about it. The Taylor Swift Eras Tour is happening all over the world, and everybody can experience it communally simultaneously. It's a different kind of way for fans to get excited about her continuing her quest to take over every single minute of our lives.

Alison Stewart: Including sports. Now Sundays football as well.

Stephen Thompson: Including now sports.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: What is it about her for people who are saying, "I just don't get the Taylor Swift thing," what is it about that makes everything such an event at this point in her career? Who she's dating, this concert tour, where she had dinner over the weekend, that she was on SNL?

Stephen Thompson: I think she has really managed to level up in a lot of ways, level up in terms of fame, level up, I think, in terms of the quality of her records. I think her records kind of keep getting better. There are people who love every single one of her records in different ways. I think that there is a certain amount of-- We are in peak Taylor in a lot of ways, but this feels like an opportunity for a victory lap and a way to have a somewhat cost-effective way for all of her fans to experience here at once. I think that there is a hunger in this country and in this world for what we used to have, which is a monoculture, where everyone knew the biggest stars of the day and everybody experienced the biggest stars of the day simultaneously.

Look at the number of people, the percentage of households who watched the finale of MASH, and how often do we have those communal monoculture experiences today. We're all split into different streaming services, we're all experiencing different things at different times, and we're all able to be super-served based on our passions. That is wonderful in so many ways, but it denies us some of the sense of unity of everybody experiencing the same thing at the same time and being able to talk to each other in a shared language. I think Taylor Swift has reached a level of supersaturation to the point where everybody can be expected in a conversation to be called upon for their opinion of Taylor Swift at any given time.

Alison Stewart: One thing I really like about her and it's got nothing to do with her music, I like that she's got a deep voice and no vocal fry. I really like her speaking voice.

Stephen Thompson: Sure.

Alison Stewart: Unless she's Elizabeth Holmesing it, I really think it's cool.

[laughter]

Stephen Thompson: If she is, then God bless her for her artistry, for being that exacting. I think we're going to be talking about Beyonce in this conversation. One of the things that we're experiencing with these stars who are putting out these films is you're talking about stars who really put in the work who are not about pretending that they're putting in no effort. I appreciate that as a concertgoer and a moviegoer, I want to sense that you thought about every word you're saying. I want to sense that you thought about all your staging and your choreography and your lighting and your sound and getting everything just right to put on the best possible show. I have a lot of respect just for watching somebody do that much work.

Alison Stewart: My guest is Stephen Thompson, you hear him on NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour. We're discussing great concert movies. What's your favorite concert movie and why? Have you gone to see Stop Making Sense or The Eras Tour movie over the weekend? 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. You can call in and join us on air, or you can text to us. Let's get to some phone calls. Anne or Annie calling in from the Bronx. Hi, Anne.

Anne: Hi. Hail! Hail! Rock 'n' Roll. It's from a while ago. It's a rockumentary about Chuck Berry. It has a concert in it, but it also raises issues about history. After I saw it, I thought, "Oh, everybody should see this in high school because he brought up slavery," and in some ways with the book bans and everything else, this movie refutes all that sanitation of history that we're going through now.

Alison Stewart: Anne, thank you so much for the thoughtful call. Jake is calling in from Green Township, New Jersey. Hi, Jake.

Jake: Hi. How are you doing today?

Alison Stewart: Good, man. What's going on?

Jake: He mentioned it before, but I definitely have to say This Is Spinal Tap. It is an absolute classic and it engulfs everything that every other concert movie has in it.

Alison Stewart: Jake, thanks for calling in. Let's talk to Reed from the Bronx. Hi, Reed. Thanks for calling All Of It.

Reed: Hi. Again, want to echo my love for Spinal Tap. Turn the knob to 11. Loved that. I saw Stop Making Sense in IMAX, and when I saw American Utopia with my parents, we're all Talking Heads fans. I loved how intergenerational the audience was and that everyone of all ages jumped in to join the dance party before the Q&A.

Alison Stewart: Reed, thanks for calling in. Stop Making Sense, the restored 4K version is in theaters now. Now, this band had drama Talking Heads did. Some members were not on the best terms. What did you think, Stephen, when you heard about this re-release?

Stephen Thompson: I was really excited, first of all, that the band got back together, not to perform but to talk about it. That 40 years, later people were able to mend fences enough to be back in the same room together. For those of us who've treasured that band, you always want the music you love to be made by people who are happy making it. I've been really, really happy to see that, but I've also just been so happy to see that film return to Theaters, coming to IMAX screens where people can come and really get lost in that performance. Stop Making Sense is such a beautiful example of a concert film that is really focused, pretty much entirely, on a concert and is recreating the experience of being in a concert.

It's not even giving you a lot of that superfluous looks at the crowd or talking to an enthusiastic fan in the crowd, screaming how much they love the band. It's really focusing on the build of a great performance and the way one song will lead into another song and more and more people coming on stage and the spectacle becoming greater and greater and more giant and communal. I just love that film and I love what it says about how a great concert is built.

Alison Stewart: Let's take a listen to a little bit of Burning Down the House from Stop Making Sense.

[MUSIC - Talking Heads: Burning Down the House]

Ah, watch out

You might get what you're after

Cool babies

Strange but not a stranger

I'm an ordinary guy

Burning down the house

Hold tight

Wait 'til the party's over

Hold tight

We're in for nasty weather

There has got to be a way

Burning down the house

Here's your ticket, pack your bags

Time for jumpin' overboard

Transportation is here

Close enough but not too far

Maybe you know where you are

Fightin' fire with fire

Alison Stewart: One of the greats. Jonathan Demme directed this film. You were talking about how prestige directors were getting into directing concert films. Where was Demme in his career? How can you tell this is a Jonathan Demme project?

Stephen Thompson: Demme is still probably a decade away from Silence of the Lambs and becoming one of the ultimate Oscar-winning mainstream filmmakers, but it certainly already had a lot of the A-list directing chops. Also, a great director knows when and how to get out of the way and knowing when to put your directorial stamp on a project, and when to let the project speak for itself. I think that's one of the things that he really brings to that film.

Alison Stewart: Someone has texted in, where was it? Prince Sign o' the Times completely designed and shot at Paisley. It's absolutely the GOAT of concert films. On repeat always at our place in Brooklyn even after all these years. You can call in and tell us your favorite concert film and why. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. After the break, we'll talk about Beyonce, and we'll get some of Stephen's favorite concert films. This is All Of It.

[music]

Alison Stewart: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest is Stephen Thompson from NPR. Of course, you listen to Pop Culture Happy Hour the podcast. We are talking about concert films obviously because Taylor Swift's concert film dominated the box office this week. We have an upcoming film Beyonce the Renaissance World Tour in lockstep with the Eras Tour, the Taylor's tour this summer. On your list you made of top concert films, you actually put Beyonce there with Homecoming which spotlighted her 2018 performance at Coachella. Tell us why this is on your list.

Stephen Thompson: Homecoming is on my list in part just because we talked in the previous segment about artists who put an extraordinary amount of work into their concert experience. Beyonce is famous for putting extraordinary amounts of choreography and athleticism and effort into everything she does. Homecoming manages to capture a lot of that while still giving this wonderfully vibrant motion-filled tribute to HBCUs, celebration of music from across her career. It's this wonderful, wonderful electrifying performance, but you're also getting a sense of what went into making it. I think it strikes a really excellent balance between performance and background.

Alison Stewart: Let's take a little bit of a listen from Homecoming. This is Beyonce.

[MUSIC - Beyonce: Homecoming] [audience cheering]

Baby, I'm back by popular demand

Bitch, I'm back by popular demand

I did not come to play with you hoes

I came to slay, bitch

Y'all haters corny with that Illuminati mess

Paparazzi, catch my fly and my cocky fresh

I'm so reckless when I rock my Givenchy dress (Stylin')

I'm so possessive so I rock his Roc necklaces

My daddy Alabama, mama Louisiana

You mix that negro with that Creole, make a Texas bama

I like my baby heir with baby hair and afros

I like my negro nose with Jackson Five nostrils

Earned all this money, but they never take the country out me

I got hot sauce in my bag, swag

Alison Stewart: You can really feel the energy of the crowd and hear them singing along and it's infectious. It really takes you there, I think.

Stephen Thompson: Yes, and she puts so many performers on stage who are also clearly feeling the performance as much, and so your eyes can dart all over the screen and find enthusiasm and find the pursuit of perfection happening in every frame.

Alison Stewart: It's so great, I think, about these concert films for people who can afford the tickets to the concert, can't afford the whole spectacle of it. I was out on medical leave, I couldn't go to any concert. I'm so excited to see Beyonce after seeing it on Instagram and seeing all the clips. It's very exciting. You get to be there in a way.

Stephen Thompson: Exactly. I bought my ticket for IMAX on Thursday night, the true opening night of the release, and we're going to make a whole night of it, even though we didn't get a chance to see the concert live and have that kind of communal experience. It will be a different kind of communal experience because every seat in the house will be packed.

Alison Stewart: At Texas, I saw Stop Making Sense two weeks ago and I can't stop thinking about it. Completely perfect 88 minutes of pure euphoria. My first concert film was Green Day's Bullet In A Bible. Substantially less perfect, maybe even bad, but has similar effect on me as an 11-year-old. [laughter] Let's talk to Emily.

Stephen Thompson: So much of art is when you find it.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Emily from Ossining. Hi, Emily. Thanks for calling All Of It.

Emily: Thank you so much, Alison. I haven't seen so many concert films, but of the ones I've seen, The Last Waltz is a fabulous film, and it's the band whom I had a personal connection to at one time because I babysat a bunch of their kids. [laughter] I can't say we were close friends, but I got to know a bunch of them a little bit, and this was many years ago in the '70s. The film has so many other musicians who played at that concert, and I actually only saw the band live once, and it wasn't in Woodstock, it was in Buffalo. I was visiting my family there. It's a great film. If you haven't seen it, it's a film to see.

Alison Stewart: Emily, thanks for calling in. That was on your list from 1978, The Last Waltz. Tell us a little bit about it.

Stephen Thompson: Part of what you're getting there is you're getting a time capsule document of a historic concert. It was the band's farewell concert in 1976 on Thanksgiving, and they brought in a whole bunch of massive, massive, massive guests. You have Neil Young and Bob Dylan and Emmylou Harris, Neil Diamond, Dr. John, [chuckles] Van Morrison, Muddy Waters. You can just keep listing. All of these performers, many of them in their absolute prime, all up on that stage at the same time and having their performances woven in. You're getting not only this important historical document, not only this perfect time capsule, but you're also just getting these fly-in performances by other iconic artists that you might not have seen from exactly this time and place.

Alison Stewart: It was directed by--

Stephen Thompson: By Martin Scorsese. Yes. Getting back to that theme we were talking about with Jonathan Demme and other major, major, major directors coming into direct concert films. You also have Gimme Shelter was directed in part by the Maysles Brothers. You have other famous filmmakers will make these films and put their own directorial stamp on it, on top of the historical significance and on top of the musical brilliance.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Sig from Manhattan. Hi, Sig. Thanks for calling in.

Sig: Hi. Thanks. Long time and first time. My nomination is different and I thank you for putting it on. It is The Weavers: Wasn't That a Time! This movie is about the great folk group, and it's about the organization for the concert and a lot of the concert itself. The touching background that everybody knew, alas, was that Lee Hayes was probably dying, Count Basie sang in a wheelchair, and indeed Mr. Hayes did die about a year after the concert in Carnegie Hall in 1980.

Alison Stewart: Sig, thank you so much for the information. Let's talk to Christine calling in from Staten Island. Hi, Christine, thanks for calling All Of It. You are on the air.

Christine: Hi. Good morning, Alison. Good afternoon, rather, to you and your guest. This is a great spot. It's bringing back lots of memories for everybody, I would imagine. Anyway, I wanted to call because what came to mind for me immediately was George Harrison's Concert for Bangladesh. I think when he brought that forward, it was possibly one of the first, if it's not the first concert that was done intentionally to spotlight a troubled site and in the globe. It's something that had great meaning for him, and then of course it was a fabulous concert, and then that gets bookended by the Concert for George, which was done by his family and best friends a year after George passed.

I probably can't not watch that whenever it comes on PBS. George was my favorite Beatle, and the love and the fabulous music that comes through especially for me at least from the concert for George is just it's timeless and it's such a great indication of someone who is greatly missed and was greatly loved for his contribution to our consciousness around problem sites in the world, and also just the wonderful music he was a part of his own, and of course, everything that The Beatles generated.

Alison Stewart: Thank you so much for calling in. We got a text which is about a film that's on your list, Stephen. Someone who saw Stop Making Sense said it was great, said, "Don't forget Aretha Franklin's Amazing Grace movie. It was really amazing." All right, so tell us the background on this film.

Stephen Thompson: Oh, man. Amazing Grace is Aretha Franklin's gospel record, a classic from 1972, and they shot film to accompany the recording of that album, but it sat in a vault because they could never quite figure out how to sync up the audio and the video. Over time they developed the ability to do that, but Aretha Franklin herself didn't want the film released in her lifetime, and she sued to block its release. It didn't end up coming out until 2018. You can watch it on streaming, and it is absolutely gorgeous. You see the nerves on her face as she's preparing to perform.

Then you get to watch this full concert carry out, and you're watching, not only a piece of history, but you are watching a brilliant artist at the height of her powers surrounded by her family, surrounded by congregants. It is a beautiful, beautiful historical and musical document and one of my favorite concert films.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Gary from Old Bridge, New Jersey. Hi, Gary. Thanks for calling in.

Gary: Thank you. Wayback Machine go to the Monterey Pop, I guess 1967, and three things stand out when Janis was singing and Mama Cass was just-- It's total shock, and then Hugh Masekela and then it ends with Ravi Shankar, which was transcendent.

Alison Stewart: I can hear it in your voice, how much it means to you. [chuckles] Gary, thank you for calling in. All right. I'm going to play a clip to just get us all in the mood for one of the films on your list.

[MUSIC - Wim Wenders: Buena Vista Social Club]

De Alto Cedro voy para Marcané

Llego a Cueto voy para Mayarí

De Alto Cedro voy para Marcané

Llego a Cueto voy para Mayarí

Alison Stewart: Of course, we're talking about Buena Vista Social Club, Wim Wenders. Tell us a little bit about how this was received when it was released.

Stephen Thompson: It was received rapturously. It was providing a window into a country most of us have never gotten to see, Cuba, and with these musicians who had been isolated for decades. In many cases, some of these musicians were in their 80s or even their 90s. Suddenly, they were getting to perform for the world for the first time. The musician Ry Cooder organized these concerts, and Wim Wenders shot them into this film. It wound up, frankly, changing the course of music history because it just introduced the world to these artists for the first time in ways that are still reverberating. It's a really inspiring and beautiful story that made the world feel a little bit smaller in just the right way.

Alison Stewart: We've got two texts about something that was on your list. Summer of Soul is the best concert video ever. Oh, wait, what about Summer of Soul? [chuckles] We also had someone weigh in on U2 Rattle and Hum, said they were so glad to be able to see it because they couldn't get to the concert. They couldn't afford the concert. What does this film document particularly?

Stephen Thompson: Which one? Rattle and Hum or Summer of Soul? Because I could talk about either of them.

Alison Stewart: Oh, Rattle and Hum. We've had Summer of Soul a lot on the show, which is great, but let's talk about Rattle and Hum.

Stephen Thompson: Oh my God. I could talk about Summer of Soul for the whole segment.

Alison Stewart: Easily.

Stephen Thompson: Rattle and Hum came along at a really interesting time in U2's career because it's right on the heels of The Joshua Tree, which was this massive, massive, massive global phenomenon. Really elevated U2, which was already a huge band into really one of the very biggest bands in the world. Rattle and Hum is capturing that stage of their career where they're at the height of their fame. Also, some would say at the height of their self-regard, and so you have a mix of these powerful performances with a lot of U2 bombast.

Alison Stewart: [laughs] That was excellent. Stephen Thompson, you can listen to him on Pop Culture Happy Hour. Thank you so much for this ride along for best concert films, and thanks to everybody who called in. We've got 24 Hour Party People, [unintelligible 00:19:45] Newfest. So many good recommendations. Thanks to everybody who called in and thanks so much, Stephen.

Stephen Thompson: Thank you, Alison.

 

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