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Alison Stewart: This is All of It. I'm Alison Stewart live from the WNYC studios in Soho. Thank you for sharing part of your day with us. Whether you're listening on the radio, live streaming, or on demand, I'm grateful you're here. On today's show, we'll speak with the filmmakers behind Scream VI. Historian and now novelist Dan Jones will join us to talk about his latest book Essex Dogs, and we'll hear from two-time Oscar winner and current nominee, Cate Blanchett and director Todd Fields about the Oscar-nominated film Tár. That's the plan. Let's get this started with The Seagull/Woodstock, NY.

[music]

On your average Chekhov bingo card, you'll find a doctor, a teacher, a countryside setting, and someone whose name sounds like Asha. All of the above are in Thomas Bradshaw's adaptation of Chekhov's classic The Seagull. The time is basically the present at a country home in the Hudson Valley, Woodstock, New York, where upper-middle-class families, friends, and lovers want more and more even though they have so much. In this adaptation, Irene is a well-known stage actress. Just ask her or don't, she'll let you know anyway. She's played with hilarious gusto by Parker Posey. Her lover William is a charismatic but emotionally shady writer of note played by Ato Essandoh.Irene's son Kevin is a nepo baby in the making.

He wants to be a groundbreaking playwright and wants his mom's friends to help him but he's weighed down by mediocre talent and self-delusion and darker moments clearly depression. Kevin is dating and obsessed with a young local actress named Nina, who shines from within and attracts almost everyone, including her boyfriend's mother's boyfriend, that writer dude. Add another layer that Nina and her secret lover William are Black in a world of white bourgeois bohemians, a lot of truth is told through some very funny jokes and some very sad truth. The new group production of The Seagull/Woodstock, NY is playing now at the Pershing Square Signature Center. Reviews have called it devilishly fun and fresh and intriguing. Joining us now in studio Thomas Bradshaw the playwright. Thomas, nice to meet you again.

Thomas Bradshaw: Nice to see you again.

Alison Stewart: And actors who play the couple Irene and William, Parker Posey and Ato Essandoh. Parker and Ato, welcome.

Parker Posey: Thank you.

Ato Essandoh: Thank you.

Alison Stewart: This is a question for the group. It's a journalism 101 question. Very obvious. Thomas, I'll start with you. What was your first experience with The Seagull?

Thomas Bradshaw: Oh, that's an interesting question. I actually hadn't thought about that but funny enough, my wife and I's first date was standing outside all night waiting for tickets for Shakespeare in the Park at the public theater when it was done with [unintelligible 00:02:56], exactly, in 2001. That's the first time I remember seeing the play. I may have seen some community theater version of it but so The Seagull, I have really great memories of that. Also, some really wealthy people paid us $100 each to give them their extra ticket for the Shakespeare in the Park show so I made some money then.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: That is a good memory. Listening right now. Note to self, summer gigs, right? Parker, how about for you?

Parker Posey: I went to the drama program in SUNY Purchase, and I had this Chekhov Ibsen Shaw teacher named Joan Potter. As actors in theater Chekhov was the progenitor of what we know as modern theater. Thomas so expertly and geniusly inhabits this new adaptation. For me, it's like the bones of humor and pathos and characters speaking through their hearts with a certain amount of narcissism and expression. As my teacher Joan Potter would say, they're laughing and crying at the same time and there's a beauty to the human condition and there's a hilarity to it. The anecdote I love about Chekhov is that when he wrote this play, he wrote it as a comedy and the actors ruined it.

[laughter]

Never had on stage doing that proclamation two-dimensional type of that arrogant acting where they're like these big gestures and shouting above everyone else. He's like, he was so upset by the drama and tragedy of it that he ended up in the hospital with some kind of disease. Then I'd been reading this book called The Method by Isaac Butler about the history of method acting and really loved it. I shared what I was reading with everyone when we were rehearsing this. Stanislavski and the Moscow Art Theater, which, of course, brought the method to this country, were said let's go beg Chekhov to bring that play back to the Moscow Art Theater. He was like, "No, not in your life. No, not doing it. That was the worst experience in my life."

I don't know if he was dating Olivia Nipper, whatever, I forget her name. She was the leading actress at the Moscow Art Theater at that time. They were all in cahoots. They were all going upstate. They were having affairs. Chekhov and his writer friend were in love with the same young actress. There was all this scandal and modern love lifestyle. They were really pushing the envelope. So cool. Right now in doing this play is how we're still kind of the same. We're still pushing it the same and with Chekhov, it's like, it's about that yearning and it's about that acceptance and that optimism and that desire and our limits and our hope and all these beautiful things. I've cherished it.

Alison Stewart: Ato, when would you first experience The Seagull?

Ato Essandoh: The same with Parker in my acting class. I was at the acting studio under James Price and I saw a production of it. Like everybody else, I think at the time I didn't know Chekhov was supposed to be funny. I was like this play about the bird and everybody's like talking about the bird, and then suddenly they're not, and then it's like really sad. Then something sad happens at the end. This is a funeral dirge. When I read Thomas's adaptation, I was like, "This is really funny." I thought he was being so iconoclast. I didn't understand.

Then I started to understand that, well, no the Chekhov original play is supposed to be funny. It's supposed to be about these narcissistic people in a really great way to look at these human beings and how they exist. If you play it with the love that Parker is talking about then the comedy comes out, but if you're playing it like it's a funeral dirge that's the problem. I love how Thomas stayed with the beats of the play but updated it so that an American audience would really understand what's going on and that's what I love about doing this play.

Parker Posey: Like when I tell Nina, just casually as she's leaving, "Your father's worse than Stalin."

[laughter]

Kevin, I ordered generals. It's his favorite. Why didn't you say Kung Pow? Kevin, I ordered Kung Pow.

Ato Essandoh: I don't know.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: Thomas has been this exodus to the Hudson Valley from New York. Why did you choose Woodstock as a location?

Thomas Bradshaw: I went to school at Bard College in upstate New York so I know the area well but also before my wife and I had children, we really had a dream of keeping our small Brooklyn apartment and buying a house upstate. We actually put in offers on three different houses but all of them fell through which was actually a blessing in disguise because as soon as the last one fell through, we found out that we were pregnant with our first kid so we bought a house in West Orange New Jersey instead because that would not have been a good plan having a small Brooklyn apartment and a house upstate. One of my goals was really to make this relevant for modern audience.

I wanted to really set it in 21st Century America and I wanted all the characters to be struggling with and grappling with all the issues that we're grappling with today as a society. It was really the first idea that I had when Scott approached me about writing an adaptation that we should totally set this in the Hudson Valley. Another goal of mine with this adaptation is that I want a modern audience to be able to experience the play the way that Chekhov's audience in Russia would've been experienced it then. All that went into choosing that location.

Alison Stewart: It's interesting because there's that push and pull between the country and the city that when they get angry or upset about something I'm going back to the city. It's this place, it's not me, it's this place. That's the problem.

Ato Essandoh: Yes. Irene has this great line that I wait for every night where she's upset and she's going to leave and she's like, "I'm leaving tonight. This place makes me miserable." We always talk after that moment. It's so written because she's making such a declarative queenly statement when you could just be like, "Well, I'm going to go home now." You know what I mean? Nobody talks like that unless there are these--

Parker Posey: [unintelligible 00:10:10] really emotionally immature and dramatic.

Ato Essandoh: Exactly.

Parker Posey: That's what's so fun is the drama of this play and being, as Scott was telling us during rehearsals these people are burning, and that's what the fun is of theater to be able to inhabit that.

Thomas Bradshaw: Absolutely. Just regarding your first question, I did read Chekhov in college. That's when I first encountered it. I've been teaching Chekhov for 20 years. I was a professor at City University of New York for 10 years before moving to Northwestern University. I's really something that I've always wanted to do.

Alison Stewart: We are talking about The Seagull/Woodstock, NY which is now at Pershing Square Signature Center until April 9th. I'm speaking with playwright Thomas Bradshaw and actors Parker Posey and Ato Essandoh. In the play, I believe it's Irene says, "We are codependent in a good way." This couple. What is working in their relationship and what is not, Parker?

Parker Posey: Their desire is working very well, in spite of his affairs and his modern look. I think they both inspire each other, I think they need to feel alive which was why I was so happy when I met Ato that first day. I don't know, I could just tell he had this dignity and sense of self that it was-- Irene has made the rules in this relationship, and he has agreed to them. She's accepted a lot of things but one thing that she's not going to accept, and a boundary that he's crossing for whatever reason, this is what's so fascinating about people, why can he not stop himself from being in love with the woman that my son is in love with? This is what great dramas and plays are about.

Alison Stewart: What's important to William when we meet him?

Ato Essandoh: Well, I think that William lives with a philosophy in life and what I found very exciting to try to play is there is the philosophy in practice and then the philosophy in theory. In theory, yes, we have this open relationship, I can have sex with whoever I want. We're cool with that. You've set up the rules, this is it. But then when we come against the grey edge of humanity, when you have to look at your lover in the eye and say, "I want to do this," and see her heart break, how stringently are you going to stick to those rules?

That's the breaking point. That's what happens in that scene that I love playing with Parker when we have that confrontation, because there is the reality of your theory, which is really nice but then in practice, how are you going to tell the woman that you love that this is what you want? How are you going to go through it? That's what I think one of the struggles is.

Alison Stewart: The choice. Is it a choice? It's interesting. Thomas, are your two characters good at their jobs? Is this Irene a good actress and is this William a good writer?

Thomas Bradshaw: I love all the characters that I write and I do think that Irene is a very good actress and I think that William was a very good writer, though I'm a writer and you have no choice regarding what people think of your work. As we hear in the play, people have differing opinions about whether William is a great writer or not. It's not for me to say which is true, but I think he's a good writer.

Alison Stewart: Does William think he's a good writer?

Ato Essandoh: Oh, William thinks he's amazing, absolutely.

Parker Posey: He has the reviews to prove it. [crosstalk]

[laughs]

The lifestyle and he's worked really hard.

Ato Essandoh: He's sold a ton of books, as he says, do you know I mean? I think that there's always that uncertainty. What I love about this play as well is that every character says something truthful about another character when they're off stage. I love when Kevin is talking about my writing. I hear it. I'm not supposed to hear that part but he is trying to bring writing to another level and so maybe I'm writing some sappy stuff that he doesn't really believe in. I'm thinking is Kevin a good writer? Maybe he is. Maybe Kevin is actually the smartest person in this room and he's trying to bring writing to an other level that I can't because I have such commercial success so I can't be that daredevil like I might have been back in the day. It's really such a multi-layered threaded play that there's so many nooks and crannies about everything in this play that you could play in a thousand different ways.

Thomas Bradshaw: There's so many conversations about art in the play. As artists, do you push yourself to do something new or you keep doing the same thing that's been bringing you success? One of my North Stars, as far as artists is concerned is Bob Dylan because he's just always pushing himself and changing and constantly producing.

Ato Essandoh: [unintelligible 00:15:48] was prints.

Thomas Bradshaw: I've been reading the Rolling Stone special issue of prints I love prints so much.

Ato Essandoh: Yes, sir.

Parker Posey: Dylan gets a shout out in the play.

Thomas Bradshaw: Yes, he does.

Alison Stewart: Irene is such a nice name dropper, as we follow her through, and she's very into her clothing, very specific kind of clothing. Is there a certain costume, Parker, that really helps you feel like Irene?

Parker Posey: Yes, I would wear this character skirt. Actors rehearse in these way back in the day in the '80s. They were these long black character skirts, and you'd wear these buttoned up collars, and you'd do your classic theater work and I loved that old school kind of things if you wear a skirt and dress and what the shoes are. What was your question?

[laughs]

Alison Stewart: Of your costumes--

Parker Posey: [unintelligible 00:16:59] You know what? I got in touch with a designer, who I've known for 25 years and her name is Rachel Comey. She's a New York designer, and she supports New York tailors and she's got a great team. William and Irene are these New York chic urban couple. I called her up, because we only had three weeks of rehearsal for this play.

Alison Stewart: That's it?

Parker Posey: That's it. Reading that book and hearing the 175 days that the Moscow Art Theater actors had to inhabit their characters and bring life onto the stage, it's really wild to think that there's just so little time given to wardrobe and props and blocking and all of that. I'm used to that from all the independent movies that I've done so I just picked up the phone and I was like, "Okay, who can I call right now to help me out?"

Alison Stewart: The upside of the short time though sometimes is you can't get precious because you're on time, [crosstalk] choices fast.

Parker Posey: Well, that's the thing about being an artist. The obstacles, you welcome them and that's the thrill of it. I love that, which is why I do a lot of independent movies.

Thomas Bradshaw: I was a little nervous about two days before the first preview about whether we were ready.

Ato Essandoh: Tell me about it.

[laughs]

Parker Posey: It was crazy because we were essentially thrown into live rehearsals in the previews without the right props. I had a camp Thermos for cocktail shaker and I think because of COVID and how communication has- you have to ask for the same things three times. We're just coming out of the woodwork really. You need those things to really ground you. I'm so impressed with everybody and how far we've come and how much we were able to really jump in.

Alison Stewart: Thomas, in the play race comes up. William and Nina discuss about how thinking about race can either contract what you think's available to or expand what you think's available to you, it comes up in a fight between Irene and William. When did you know you were going to introduce race into The Seagull?

Thomas Bradshaw: Well, for me, I have written some plays actually that are all white casts, but even when I'm writing a play that's all white cast, race is still an element. Just by virtue that a Black man is writing these white characters. For me, if it's going to take place today, if it's actually going to be modern adaptation, then it has to include race because race is such an important part of the American story. It's constantly on the American mind.

Regarding what is said about race in my play, I always strive to present a range of issues. Really replicate the debate that I see going on into the world, but without the playwright's hand telling you what to think or what not to think. You're not providing these messages for the audience. Because I have this belief that-- I consider the plays I write to be art. I think for something to rise to the level of art, it has to leave room for audience interpretation. If there's no room for audience interpretation, then it's propaganda.

Alison Stewart: We have so much of that going on in the past 20 years.

Thomas Bradshaw: Absolutely.

Alison Stewart: I say it all the time, and people love work like that, and movies like that, and shows like that. I was like, "It's propaganda." They don't understand what I'm saying.

Thomas Bradshaw: Yes. As far as I'm concerned, look, I'm a professor. Why write a play if there's just a clear message that I want to deliver to people? I can get up and give a speech.

Alison Stewart: Right.

[laughter]

Thomas Bradshaw: Go around and give a speech. A lot less work, and a lot less money.

Ato Essandoh: Run for office. Yes.

Alison Stewart: Run for office, yes.

Thomas Bradshaw: Maybe I will. [laughs]

Ato Essandoh: Here we go.

Alison Stewart: That's fair enough.

Ato Essandoh: Yes.

Alison Stewart: Parker and Ato, it's a thrust stage. The audience is on three sides. How does that impact your performance?

Ato Essandoh: It's something I think about all the time because there's a lot of times where you feel like you have, and you actually have your back to the audience. You have to come up with a way bodily and physically to give everybody your face in a way that looks organic, that doesn't look like you're trying to give the face. It's really interesting. I'm going to talk about Parker for a second. One thing that I love about her and her acting in, I've seen her in a ton of things, and she's one of my favorite actresses in the world, and I think I know what her superpower is. She is such a physicality, that every choice that she makes is not cerebral, it is actually a physical manifestation.

I clock how she makes choices, and it comes fully in her body. In the thrust, it's almost like it is such a wonderful performance that if you're looking at it, you're like, "Oh my God, every single word does something else to her body. Every single emotion." It's never really the same. It's just where she is in the moment, and that's the thing, because I'm a thief. When I'm in rehearsal, I look at everybody who's acting no matter what the level I think they are, and I'm writing down notes. For Parker, I was like, "Body, body, body." You know what I mean? There's no wasted motion. It's beautiful. Anyway, that's-

Parker Posey: That's so lovely.

Alison Stewart: I thought that you never stop moving.

Ato Essandoh: Never stop moving, yes.

Alison Stewart: Your body is all constantly in motion during the play.

Parker Posey: She's a dramatic actress. There's so much going on in the play for her. I've thought in my process doing this. It's been a conversation about what is it to be an actor, and I have felt like a generator. I feel like a generator moving water around, and shooting it out, and surfing it. In a thrust, I started out as a dancer, and I love movement. I love bringing meaning to words, and having them feel and having them back to Chekhov and the psychological gesture. Having them really affect your body and show people in the theater who don't have that body, whatever that expression of what that looks like, so that they have an image in their heads.

One of my friends used to say the play was like, "That's imprinted in my mind when you're pounding the stage. You're like a lioness." It's like it was terrifying and wild or you just like-- I love thinking like that from the outside in and the inside out. That's what theater can do to you as an actor. That's the exercise. That's the catharsis, that's the experience. It's really rich.

Alison Stewart: On my Zoom right now, Parker, is the new production team for Scream VI. We're going to talk to next. Do you [crosstalk]

Parker Posey: Oh, I wish they hadn't killed me. I begged [crosstalk] I'm like, "Please." Then I'm like always for an alternate universe. I'm like, "Please can we have a Scream III in Dreams, and Gail can come back?" It's an astral plane. She's working and a newscaster or whatever she was. Hey, you guys Scream VI. Yes, bring me back. Figure it out.

[laughter]

Parker Posey: Come on. Figure it out.

Alison Stewart: I'll follow up on that for you after the break.

Parker Posey: Thanks.

Alison Stewart: We've been talking about The Seagull/Woodstock, NY. It is at Pershing Square Signature Center until April 9th. My guests have been Thomas Bradshaw, Parker Posey, and Ato Essandoh. Thank you so much for coming into the studio. I really appreciate it.

Parker Posey: Thank you.

Thomas Bradshaw: Thanks for having us.

Ato Essandoh: Thanks for having us.

Parker Posey: Thanks for having us.

 

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