[music]

Tiffany Hanssen: This is All Of It from WNYC. I'm Tiffany Hanssen in for Allison Stewart. A PBS documentary tells the story of residents at a public housing community in Miami who are fighting to save their neighborhood from climate gentrification. It's called Razing Liberty Square. Built in 1937, Liberty Square is home to one of the oldest housing projects in the United States. Today, it's home to nearly 700 families. Here's a clip of the film. This is Climate Justice organizer Valencia Gunder, sharing a brief history of the historically Black neighborhood.

[music]

Valencia Gunder: When they built Miami, they wanted it to be this beachfront paradise, but the people of color were forced to the middle of the city.

Tiffany Hanssen: Liberty Square is just eight miles inland from Miami's beaches and roughly 10 feet above sea level, making it more resilient to flooding than other neighborhoods along the coast. In 2017, the City of Miami started redevelopment of the former housing projects. Razing Liberty Square premiered nationally last month on PBS. It's available to stream for free on PBS.org, the PBS app and on YouTube. Joining us to talk about it is the film's director, Miami-based filmmaker, Katja Esson. Katja, welcome to All Of It.

Katja Esson: Thank you.

Tiffany Hanssen: Also joining us is producer Ann Bennett. Ann, welcome to All Of It.

Ann Bennett: Thank you very much.

Tiffany Hanssen: Last but not least, producer Corinna Sager. Corinna, welcome to All Of It.

Ann Bennett: Thank you. Welcome.

Tiffany Hanssen: All right. Katja, let's start with you about the origin of this project. I'm curious how you got involved and at what point you realized that you really wanted to make a documentary about what was happening in Liberty City.

Katja Esson: Yes. Great question. I am originally from Germany, and I came to Miami in the late '80s to study film. My biggest claim to fame really is being a production assistant on many music videos of the rap group, 2 Live Crew, which were all filmed in Liberty City. At that point, I was a young film student that hardly spoke any English and really couldn't expect that I, more than 20 years later, would come back and do this documentary in Liberty City. I left to New York for many years to work on documentaries all over the world and then came back in 2016. That was the time Moonlight came out. Moonlight is playing, the story takes place in Liberty Square.

I learned that this housing development now was slated to be raised to the ground and replaced by a new community, by a mixed-income community. I have to say, the European in me couldn't believe that something so historical, you said it before, one of the oldest public housing projects in the country, one of the first segregated public housing projects would just be torn down. My first interest was purely historical. I picked up my camera, and I wanted to just preserve something that I did not know much about. The rest of Miami also did not know much about as I found out.

While I was there filming and meeting people and talking to residents, I was educated by the residents, "By the way, we are sitting on some of the highest and driest ground in Miami." Next, I was educated about this term that I had never heard of before, climate gentrification. At that point, I knew that this would be a very different film. We still have a lot of history in it, but it became a very, very different film. Yes, it's kept us going for six years. It took six years to make.

Tiffany Hanssen: For people who aren't familiar with the Miami area, just describe for us Liberty Square, just so we get a sense of what we're talking about, where it is, what it looks like when we get there.

Katja Esson: Yes. When it was built in the '30s, it is not how I ever imagined public housing. It is a bungalow style, one-story, maximum two-story, a nine-block area with garden apartments and laundry lines. Everything painted in pastels, pink and green and blue and yellow. I remember Tarell McCraney, the writer of Moonlight saying, "Yes, and Miami poverty is beautiful," because it did look beautiful. Also when we started filming, well, the film office insisted on giving us a police escort. That's how dangerous the area was considered to be. It was, I think in 2014, '15, one of the dangerous zip codes in the United States. It's a very, very challenged area.

Tiffany Hanssen: Okay. Ann and Corinna, to you. Ann, I'm curious about your origin story with this project and also how you all decided what voices needed to be pulled in to tell the story of Liberty Square.

Ann Bennett: Oh, that's a great question. Thank you. Well, I have known Katja now for almost 25 years. We had met when Katja was working in New York City, and she was editing her short film, Ferry Tales, that was Oscar-nominated. Katja had invited other filmmakers in to watch the film and give notes. That's how we got to know each other because I was part of that screening. Katja was always very inclusive in her filmmaking process. We kept in touch over the years. Then when Katja started to work on this project, she had given me a call because she knew that my background is mostly in historical documentaries, and I was specialized mostly in African-American history projects.

When Katja called me, she said, "Well, I've got this great project, and there's this amazing African American community and this amazing history." I have to say I was a little embarrassed because I like to think that I know my African-American history, and I know all of my spots of history and culture and politics and whatnot. I did not know all the things that had happened in Miami as far as Black history and culture. I did not know about Liberty Square and the Hampton House and how this community was a real hotspot for not only entertainers but for political folks. People like Malcolm X actually came there and [crosstalk]

Tiffany Hanssen: Yes, I'm curious, Ann, is educating people about that history that you didn't even know about part of the mission of this?

Katja Esson: Yes.

Ann Bennett: Oh, most definitely. During the process, we were learning from all of the community members, from historians and doing quite a bit of research as well. I know that Corinna was working with us to get involved with the local archives and to find images, footage, people, stories. It's been quite inclusive to make sure that we were thorough in our research and thorough in our journalism and our storytelling as well.

Tiffany Hanssen: Corrina, I'll throw the question to you then. I asked, how did you decide what voices to pull into this?

Corinna Sager: I think I have to hand that over to Katja because she really is the one.

Katja Esson: We interviewed 40, 50 residents. We interviewed a lot of historians, experts because the topic we realized at one point clearly that we had to bring housing justice and climate justice together, which is not an easy task, and then bring in history and structural racism. We thought we had to rely on experts, but it became very clear very soon that the people, that the residents, they are the experts of their own stories. We completely pivoted, and we made it into a Verity documentary. There's not a single "experts," and I'm making air quotes.

Yes, everybody is an expert on their story. Yes, we have in our film where we wanted to not do the usual David and Goliath story in a way like bad, bad developer, poor victimized community. It's much more nuanced than that. We have somebody from the development team, we have a resident, we have an organizer, we have a former resident. That's how then we chose the voices.

One thing I have to say, Tiffany, that I'm so happy about, and thank God to my editors, we managed to create this chorus of elders that keeps coming in and that builds the film with so much life and so much knowledge. The reaction of the audience is always amazing because they're also funny. These elders, they know a lot, but they're also really funny. We have that chorus also that comes in.

Tiffany Hanssen: Corinna, describe the opening of the film for us. What will we see when we sit down with this film? Just to start off.

Corinna Sager: You'll see clouds and water reflecting Miami, but really mostly you'll fly over Miami and Miami Beach, but right then and there comes Valencia Gunder, whose voice you were playing earlier, who was giving the history, and she says this famous line about, "They're going to come take Liberty City because we don't flood." You have this contrast between this beautiful Miami and the sound and the voiceover where that throws you off right then and there, like, "What?"

Also, we're seeing the usual Miami that everybody knows, and then we continue. We show what is behind the glitzy facade. We go inland. Then we land right smack in Liberty Square. We see what everybody knows about Miami, the beaches and the glitz and the glamour and then behind that.

Tiffany Hanssen: Ann, I'm curious if you can maybe give us a little bit of history about this plan for redevelopment. Because what happened is the city moved in and said, "Because it's on land that is less susceptible to the problems of climate change that are all facing most of Florida at this point, we're going to swoop in." Is that what happened? Is that an accurate--

Ann Bennett: A little bit, but actually, I'm going to defer to Katja as well, because she can give us really the particulars. Because we want to get this story straight. Katja, if you could help, just give us sort of an outline of that timeline for when the development was started.

Tiffany Hanssen: Just lay out the timeline for us here, so we can understand what this is shaking up [crosstalk]

Katja Esson: It's like Liberty Square is the heart of Liberty City, the historical Black neighborhood, which is a huge, huge area. Developers will look at it and say it's underdeveloped because there are a lot of single-family houses. I know that they have been circling that area for a while, but now with sea level rise threatening and insurance rates going up and people really pushing inland, it has become a feeding frenzy. They tried before to redevelop Liberty Square, but residents actually stopped it. In 2015, it was decided by the city to do it, by the county to do it, and 2017 is when the first bulldozers roll in and tear down the first building.

Right now, we are still exactly where the film ends. Of the nine blocks, three are done. They're incredibly behind. That's in a nutshell what it is.

Tiffany Hanssen: In the film, we hear from Aaron McKinney who grew up in Liberty City. He works for the related group who, as I understand it, are developers overseeing this project. I just want to get a clip from him. We take a listen to that and then talk about it.

Aaron McKinney: Generations of families have grew up in this particular site. It's understandable that folks, they have some kind of emotional attachment to this place. It's for better or worse somewhat of a staple in this community. It's bittersweet. I get that.

Tiffany Hanssen: Aaron has been present for a lot of meetings around the development of the property. Many of those meetings, I can imagine, were quite contentious. Katja, just talk to us about him, his relationship to the project, his presence in the film and how that relates to development, et cetera.

Katja Esson: Aaron is the most vulnerable of all our protagonists, and even now that we started our impact campaign-- No, I should say, especially now that we're actually showing the film in community, it's hard. He keeps saying his anxiety level is rising because he's the most vulnerable, as I said. I went on this journey with him. He believed he could make a difference, he could have a place at the table and make sure that the development would do right by his community. That's how he started out. That's how I started out. That's how the film starts out.

Then he also had to see how promises were just chipped away and not kept. Then I don't want to say, Tiffany, how, because people who want to watch it, I just don't want to give away what's happening, but yes, he has been on a extremely intense journey.

Tiffany Hanssen: Probably not the only one.

Katja Esson: No.

Tiffany Hanssen: I can imagine, just from hearing what you've been saying, Ann and Katja, about how it's affecting residents.

Ann Bennett: Right. Part of the goal of the film has been that we're filmmakers, we're storytellers, but we want to have this film be a tool for people to use and to share. Part of the sharing is that our protagonists, the people featured in the film, have been really active in sharing the film and discussing this in different communities. You just asked about Aaron. Aaron has come to, goodness, numerous screenings. I have to say, I really admire him because people oftentimes will have some comments. They'll say, "Well, didn't you know?" "Weren't you concerned?", and whatnot. He very bravely has addressed audiences when both they have applauded him and also questioned him.

I've been really impressed by all of our protagonists who've stepped up and been very open to share their stories, not only in the film but with audiences in person as well.

Corinna Sager: There's also another aspect because the developer sent a letter, just before broadcast actually, basically requesting that the film not be screened at all. That was really quite something.

Ann Bennett: Yes.

Corinna Sager: There's a lot really going on, and Related is a very, very large gigantic real estate development company in the United States. It's even planning something in New York right now with public housing. For sure, the film touches on a lot of really important aspects.

Tiffany Hanssen: We did get a text. "I've lived in Miami for 10 years. I lived in downtown Miami before the big boom. My sister went to the University of Miami. She was a teacher in Brownsville and Liberty City. I used to go with her to school to teach. After school, I enjoyed the neighborhood and the people. I'm originally from Brooklyn, and I know the feeling of gentrification and development by cooperations." There are a lot of feelings around gentrification and climate gentrification specifically. I'm wondering, if you can just give us a sense of the pulse, not only in Liberty City but in Miami generally, I'll toss it to any one of you, generally around climate gentrification.

Katja Esson: It's a huge fight, Tiffany. As I just mentioned before, we started our impact campaign. The film is being shown in all over, and we're so happy about that. Ann mentioned that too, communities, residents, activists, organizers, everybody is claiming this film for themselves and showing it as a cautionary tale. Because there is right now really rampant development also here in Miami of public housing properties and the push to turn them into mixed-income. That's happening all over the place.

In our film, we show to approach promises very carefully that are done by local governments and the developers. Corinna mentioned it now, Related, it just got the bid for the first full demolition of New York public housing. Our film arrived just at that critical time. It is right now being shown all over public housing properties in New York as well. [sound cut]

Tiffany Hanssen: Oh, I think Katja froze there.

Katja Esson: New York for me, it's just so crazy because it's the same developer.

Tiffany Hanssen: Ann--

Katja Esson: Did I freeze?

Tiffany Hanssen: Yes, a little bit. That's all right. Ann, I'm looking for a little bit more of the feeling though, the emotion around climate gentrification in Miami right now. What's the palpable sense from folks in Liberty Square and outside Liberty City about climate gentrification for New Yorkers who are sitting here thinking, "I don't understand what this is all about."

Ann Bennett: Katja was best as being in Miami on and off for the past 30 years. I can definitely say that people are feeling pushed and feeling displaced. That's been happening in Miami, especially in the Black neighborhoods almost throughout Miami's history. When Miami was founded in 1896, a third of the people signing that original charter were people of African descent, and they're some of the first settlers in Miami, and they're first settlers along Miami Beach, but they're also some of the first people to be pushed out of Miami Beach once they realized how valuable that property was.

Black communities have been pushed from the waterfront area. They've been pushed when the highway come through. They've been now pushed as sea level rises. There's an old phrase I remember my parents said back in the day that, "Urban renewal is Negro removal." That's something they would cynically joke about back in the '70s and in the '80s, but that's happening still now. That's something that people have known historically, they families know it, but they also are feeling it. There's certainly feeling of the more things change, the more they stay the same in many respects.

Tiffany Hanssen: Katja, I have a minute left here. If you could pull one quote from the film that you would like to have with folks after watching it, what would that be?

Katja Esson: Unfortunately, it's the one that Corinna already said. Valencia said it, "My grandfather always told me, they're going to come for Liberty City because we don't flood."

Tiffany Hanssen: Yes, Corinna, same for you?

Corinna Sager: As a quote, yes. There's another one, but I can't quote it, I always liked Valencia talking about how much money is invested in shoring up Miami's flood situation but not investing to the people.

Tiffany Hanssen: Filmmaker Katja Esson, thank you so much for joining us, and producer Ann Bennett, producer Corinna Sager, all worked on the film,  Razing Liberty Square, and we are very appreciative of your time today. Thank you so much.

Ann Bennett: Thank you.

Corinna Sager: Thank you.

Ann Bennett: Thank you for having us.

Copyright © 2024 New York Public Radio. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use at www.wnyc.org for further information.

New York Public Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline, often by contractors. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of New York Public Radio’s programming is the audio record.