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Alison Stewart: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. The nominations for the Annual Academy Awards were announced yesterday, and as per usual, there were some snubs, surprises, and some wait what? It was a history-making year for Asian actors as Everything Everywhere All At Once, the twisty turny sci-fi extravaganza that earned its two main stars Ke Huy Quan and Michelle Yeoh Golden Globes, led the nominations with 11.

It was a lack of representation in several categories, especially in the best director category where women were totally shut out, and the best actor nominees featured no man of color. There's also someone who came to the party unexpectedly, kind of like when your friend shows up with another friend. Then there were nominees we're just thrilled to be considered like Marcel the Shell nominated for Best Animated Feature. Here's a bit of a phone call Marcel posted on Instagram.

Marcel: What am I even supposed to say? I guess this is one of those moments that you call a stunner. Is this what you call a stunner? Wow, it really is an honor just to be nominated. I'm a little bit nervous about what maybe I should wear this kind of thing. I look pretty weird and a bowtie just because it accentuates that I don't have a neck or maybe I am only a neck, and I don't really like to think of myself in those terms. Maybe I'll just put a shiny glitter on my head or some sort of sash or something like that, but but but but, I'm getting ahead of myself. I just like to thank everybody, and just to say congrats to all the other nominees. Now I feel a bit shy, so I'm just going to conclude. Thank you for this prestigious honor and vive le cinema.

Alison Stewart: Kyle Buchanan, an award-season columnist for The New York Times joins us. Hi, Kyle.

Kyle Buchanan: You're expecting me to follow up Marcel? [chuckles] I promise I'm not good enough.

Alison Stewart: Well, that's debatable. That's another column for another time. Let's talk a little bit about the format of the show. Last year eight categories; documentary short, film editing, makeup hairstyling, original score, production design, animated short, live action short, and sound, were excluded from the live telecast, we have heard that they will be reinstated. What went into that decision, and what's been the reaction?

Kyle Buchanan: Oh, very simple. Everyone was really angry about it. There's a new man, Bill Kramer, who's taken charge of the Academy. He came to the Academy from the pretty well-regarded Academy museum that opened in Los Angeles. I think what he's trying to assure people is that this is going to be a traditional Oscars, a return to form kind of Oscars where all the categories are presented. We even saw it in the announcement of the Oscar nominations. They got two classy stars, Riz Ahmed and Allison Williams from the instinct called Classic Megan to announce those nominations, beautiful actors, pronouncing names correctly, kind of a return to form.

They might have gone a little to return to form in the hiring of Jimmy Kimmel to host, I don't know that he's going to bring anything fresh to it at this point, but I'm curious to see what they've got because the Oscars still are a prestige brand. If they lean into it, instead of running away from it, I think that could pay dividends.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk about some of the categories, Best Actress Cate Blanchett for Tár, Ana de Armas for Blonde, Andrea Riseborough for To Leslie. She's the one that friend who was invited by a friend. Michelle Williams, The Fabelmans. Michelle Yeoh, Everything Everywhere All at Once. Now, conventional wisdom says this is probably Michelle Yeoh versus Cate Blanchett, but we have this unconventional nominee and campaign, Andrea Riseborough. For folks have not been following this story, can you explain what happened?

Kyle Buchanan: Yes, you really would have only had to have blinked in this past week to not know what happened there because usually when it comes to an awards campaign, it's a month-long endeavor. The movie debuts at let's say, a Fall Film Festival, it starts to get buzz. Oftentimes, the actor will take a couple of weeks off, or even a couple months off, to do the necessary handshaking, audience Q&As, events, red carpets, et cetera. That go into a modern awards campaign. Andrea Riseborough didn't have that money, didn't have that time, and what she did instead is something really unconventional, and I'll be curious to see if anyone repeats it next year.

She and the people who were advocating for her tiny little indie To Leslie, where she plays this alcoholic lottery winner. They basically waited until the one week where Oscar voting opened, and then launched an all-out offense, getting every famous person they knew, to tout the movie on social media, to host screenings of it both virtual and in person, and created such an unexpected buzz cloud in that final week of voting that everybody who maybe had checked out everything else, was moved apparently, the check out To Leslie.

It had previously not been on their radars, and there's something to be said for being the very last film that people watch because it's fresh in your mind. Enough people checked it out to get her into that best actress category. Like I said, we watched that brand-new award strategy get pioneered in real-time. I'm curious to see if someone will take that baton and run with it next year.

Alison Stewart: Well, let's pull out a little bit. A lot of people were really unhappy that Viola Davis and Danielle Deadwyler of Till, Viola Davis of The Woman King were snubbed for best actress. What do you make of the optics of that, given these two Black actresses with these phenomenal performances weren't acknowledged? Maybe even one actress who was acknowledged should have been in a supporting category.

Kyle Buchanan: Yes, I think those optics are clear. The thing that confounds me is that The Woman King, Viola Davis's movie is to me like a totally old-fashioned entertainment. That is the sort of thing that the Oscars ought to eat up, and it was blanked across the board, didn't get into picture, director, actress, supporting actress, hair and makeup, there's plenty of places that I would have put it. One of the most incredible and rousing scores of the year. I was disappointed by that.

A lot of films directed by women about women had a rough go of it yesterday, not just The Woman King, but Women Talking which did get in the best picture, but not director, and none of its cast was nominated, only got one other nomination for its screenplay. Then you had films like Till, like She Said, that struggled to get a foothold. I think it's a reminder that even though the Oscars have done a lot to diversify their voting membership, even though the Oscars have given the last two best director awards to women, there is still, I don't know, maybe an endemic bias against movies that star women that are about women that are told by women.

I think that there is after what, like almost a century of the Oscars telling us that movies about men are important, movies made by men about men are the most serious, the most worthy of canonization. We still come up against these movies that are called things like She Said, Women Talking, The Woman King, and a lot of older men in the Academy just aren't as eager to check them out.

Alison Stewart: One of my favorite tweets was women talking about how Sarah Polley didn't get nominated when her director, when a screenplay in her movie did, I guess it's called Kyle Buchanan, New York Times award season colonists were talking about the Academy Awards. Best Actor in a Leading Role; Austin Butler in Elvis, Colin Farrell in The Banshees of-- I can't say it. Can you say for me?

Kyle Buchanan: Inisherin.

Alison Stewart: Thank you, Brendan Fraser for The Whale, Paul Mescal for Aftersun, and Bill Nighy for Living. Austin Butler, one of the Golden Globes as the Colin Farrell, there seems to be a lot of momentum for that film, for Colin Farrell's film that I can't say the name of. Who do you think the race is between? This is an interesting group.

Kyle Buchanan: It is. I honestly think the front-runner is probably Brendan Fraser. He's giving Oscar voters exactly what they like, which is a comeback narrative. B, the makeup-aided transformation that shows evident, visible work. C, they liked that movie well enough to also nominate Hong Chau, who was the supporting actress in it. Brendan Fraser is playing this 800-pound recluse. We haven't seen him in a while. He used to be this big man cast and hunky rolls in films like The Mummy.

For him to come back here and demonstrate that he's a serious actor, that's the kind of thing that Oscar voters usually go to, which is not to take anything away from Colin Farrell, who I love who I would vote for, in Banshees of Inisherin, and Austin Butler, who I thought was tremendous in Elvis. I don't even care if he's still using that voice. It's a great voice, keep using it, I would, but I don't know that the Academy is going to be in any rush to reward him because they tend to want someone more seasoned in best actor to win. I think this is somebody who came out of nowhere, this young hunky guy who basically came out of Disney Channel and CW shows. That's not the type of guy that they usually go for in that they want the over-40s. They kept Leonardo DiCaprio dangling until his twink days were long behind him. There's another good example.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk about best actress in a supporting role. Angela Bassett in Black Panther: Wakanda Forever. Hong Chau in The Whale. You mentioned Kerry Condon, The Banshees of, I can't say. Jamie Lee Curtis in Everything Everywhere All At Once and Stephanie Hsu in Everything Everywhere All At Once. It has been really nice to see I'm just going to say my bias, Angela Bassett getting her flowers this award season.

Kyle Buchanan: I do think that's one of the things that has propelled her to win at the televised award show so far, at the Golden Globes, and at the Critics Choice Award, she took both those awards, and she's terrific in Black Panther. I really do think this is what happens a lot of the time in award season where it feels like a career-capping award, where people are looking over the breadth of what you've done in your life and your work in your career, and that's what they're really rewarding you for.

I think she mentioned in one of those speeches that the last time she was up on one of those award stages was for What's Love Got To Do With It, which is the only other time that she's been nominated for an Academy Award. I think she's regarded as one of our very best actresses. This is I think, going to lead to let's make it up to you by giving you the win. You deserve this for everything you've done and you deserve even better opportunities from here on out.

Alison Stewart: I had to double-check this, that this is a first Oscar nomination for Jamie Lee Curtis. Why do you think this is the role that finally earned her-- She's been around for so long, I just assumed at some point she had been nominated but no.

Kyle Buchanan: She's been around a long time and her parents, Tony Curtis and Janet Leigh are also Oscar nominees. She's the third actor to be an Oscar nominee herself when her parents were. Talk about nipple baby power. I think the thing that worked against Jamie Lee Curtis before that is that her biggest roles, the things that would have gotten her nominated were in comedies. The Oscars have historically been a little skeptical when it comes to comedies. Films like Fish Called Wanda and True Lies, not that those didn't earn nominations, but I don't know.

A woman in comedy is not typically the thing that the Oscars go for and in the case of Everything Everywhere, well, first of all, it's undeniable that they liked it because it led the nominations, but it also mixes that comedy up with a million other things. Also, let's be real, Jamie Lee Curtis wanted this [chuckles] nomination. She was out there being the drum. She was out there as the Everything Everywhere crew likes to say. She's out there as the film's number-one cheerleader. I think she was eager to be on the winning team after spending so much time playing the game in Hollywood.

Alison Stewart: For anyone who thinks that the campaigns are just, oh, they're this little thing. I won't say any names, but we had a director who was going to be on the show and we asked if we could move it to another day. I was like, "Oh, no, that's after Oscar voting closes."

[laughter]

Kyle Buchanan: Yes. it's not unlike a political campaign some of the time, and I think people could get disillusioned when they hear that. Doesn't it have anything to do with the quality of the movie and the performance? It does, but there's so much else that goes into it as there is with politics. There are optics, there's relatability, [laughs] there's all sorts of things and there's momentum. Right now, Everything Everywhere has it and I'm curious to see if it can ride it all the way to the end.

Alison Stewart: That leads us to best actor in a supporting role. Brendan Gleason in the Banshees Of-- Brian Tyree Henry, Causeway. Judd Hirsch, The Fablemans. Barry Keoghan, The Banshees of-- and Ke Huy Quan, Everything Everywhere All At Once. He has just turned out to be the person that would make the most hardened hearted person cry with his award speeches. He's gotten a Golden Globe already. Let's listen to a little bit of his speech.

Ke Huy Quan: Thank you. Thank you so much. I was raised to never forget where I came from and to always remember who gave me my first opportunity. I am so happy to see Steven Spielberg here tonight. Steven, thank you.

[applause]

When I started my career as a child actor in Indiana Jones and The Temple of Doom, I felt so very lucky to have been chosen. As I grew older, I started to wonder if that was it, if that was just luck. For so many years, I was afraid that I had nothing more to offer, that no matter what I did, I would never surpass what I achieved as a kid. Thankfully, more than 30 years later, two guys thought of me. They remembered that kid, and they gave me an opportunity to try again.

[applause]

Alison Stewart: Should we just give it to him now?

Kyle Buchanan: [laughs] It would save some time. There's no way he won't be winning this. It's the lock of Oscar Night. Who'd argue? He reminds me a lot of Troy Kotsur last year, who was the actor from CODA who also won supporting actor, basically cruised through the award season picking up trophy after trophy, very much like Troy Kotsur, Ke Huy Quan has a perfect storm of factors here.

It's a terrific performance in a movie that people love, that could win Best Picture, and you know he's going to give a potent emotional speech because of what he's had to put up with and the resilience that he's demonstrated to get to this point. He's really terrific. It truly is an honor just to be nominated if you're one of the other four men in that category because there's no way that trophy is going to be engraved with your name.

Alison Stewart: I did want to say it's great now that we'll be able to say oscar nominee Brian Tyree Henry.

Kyle Buchanan: I'm very happy about that. That was one of the little surprises of the morning. He's really terrific in this apple film called Causeway with Jennifer Lawrence. It's basically a two-hander with the two of them and I worried it was too underseen for his performance to break out. He's been so terrific for so long and a whole lot of things. People might know him from the TV show Atlanta and I'm happy that he's getting his flowers. Also saw him in a really beautiful suit at the Critics Choice Awards. I know he will bring it on the red carpet.

Alison Stewart: All right. Best Picture. All Quiet on the Western Front, Avatar: The Way of Water, The Banshees of Inisherin.

Kyle Buchanan: You did it.

Alison Stewart: Elvis, Everything Everywhere All At Once, The Fablemans, Tár, Top Gun: Maverick, Triangle of Sadness, and Women Talking. Out of that group, which one was a surprise to you?

Kyle Buchanan: Ultimately, actually, it was Women Talking. That was a movie that had been really on the bubble. It launched really strong out of the Fall Film Festivals and like I said earlier, kind of struggled to find that cultural foothold when it actually came out right around Christmas. I am heartened to see it there because I think it's terrific. Actually, I'm really happy with this lineup. I think it's exactly the sort of thing that I like to see from a lineup of 10, which is really different types of movies. There's absolutely something for everyone in this lineup and we have a whole lot of theatrical hits, which is encouraging this many years into the pandemic.

Films like Avatar: The Way of Water and Top Gun: Maverick were obviously billion-dollar successes, but then also Elvis and Everything Everywhere All At Once did really tremendously in theaters. That's not to say it's all good news. Films like Fablemans, Banshees, Tár, among the most acclaimed movies of the year kind of struggled. I wonder if we're seeing a little bit of a sea change after having gotten so accustomed to watching movies at home, where if it doesn't feel like a huge event, people simply won't go to the theater.

Award season is supposed to be the event that propels these films to your must-see list. I'm not sure. Maybe people are just waiting for them to debut on HBO Max going forward. We'll have to see what the ultimate health of the theatrical industry that this would appear to be encouraging toward how that actually shakes out over the next few years.

Alison Stewart: The best directors are all from those films. Martin McDonagh from The Banshees of Inisherin. Daniel Kwan, Daniel Scheinert for e Everything Everywhere All At Once. Steven Spielberg, The Fablemans. Todd Field, Tár, and Ruben Östlund for Triangle of Sadness. It's so interesting because two of these films are wild. Triangle of Sadness and Everything Everywhere All At Once. I love that being crazy and Kooky is being recognized.

Kyle Buchanan: Absolutely. I'm heartened that Everything Everywhere is the nomination's leader. I remember seeing that film at its LA premiere last year, a premiere that happened to be during Oscar week last year. It was a nice little distraction and then I found myself not so distracted because while watching it, I thought, as quirky as this is as different from the Oscar norm as this is, it's hitting a lot of emotional beats really effectively and it has these terrific performances. I think this could be the big Oscar movie next year. Slowly but surely, that passion that people felt for it is the thing that helped propel it to the top.

I think people feel passionate about Triangle of Sadness as well. I think it's an indication that playing it safe doesn't really get you anywhere when it comes to the Oscars these days or when it comes to releasing movies these days. You have to make noise and you can't deny that those two films did.

Alison Stewart: Kyle Buchanan is New York Times award-season columnist. Kyle, thanks so much for being with us.

Kyle Buchanan: Anytime.

Alison Stewart: Listeners, while we're in the subject of the Oscars, did you know the very first film to win the Academy Award for Best Picture entered the public domain this year? The Silent Film Wings is one of the thousands of works that you can be adapted and built on for free. We want your help exploring the public domain. It's part of our music-focused All Of It public song project. Send us your original recording of a song based on work in the public domain before February 13th and our panel will pick it to get it on the air. For more, go to wnyc.org/publicsongproject. That's wnyc.org/publicsongproject. We look forward to hearing from you.

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