[music]

Automated: Listener supported, WNYC studios.

[MUSIC-Luscious Jackson: Citysong]

Arun Venugopal: This is All Of It. I'm Arun Venugopal in for Alison Stewart.

[MUSIC-Biz Markie: Nobody Beats The Biz]

Arun Venugopal: The song you're listening to is Nobody Beats The Biz from Biz Markie's 1988 debut album. Going off, this year marks the album's 35th anniversary. A new film reflects on the life, career, and legacy of the late Long Island MC, and it's titled All Up In The Biz. Features archival footage and interviews with some of the rapper's closest friends. We learn more about his childhood through his foster siblings, his burgeoning interest in Hip Hop, and his relationships with longtime professionals in the music industry. There's also an intimate size shown of the MC as his wife, Tara Hall, takes us through his final moments in the hospital reminding viewers that he was loved.

The documentary is titled All Up In The Biz and Premieres on Showtime and Paramount Plus this Friday, August 11th. Today, we're joined by the filmmaker. Sacha Jenkins is the Chief Creative Officer of Mass Appeal an entertainment company documenting urban culture. Sacha, welcome back to All Of It.

Sacha Jenkins: Thanks for having me.

Arun Venugopal: Also joining us today is Tara Hall, Biz Markie's wife and the executive producer of the film. Tara, hi.

Tara Hall: Hi, good afternoon. Hi, Sacha.

Sacha Jenkins: Hello.

[laughter]

Arun Venugopal: Listeners, we'd like you to join in on this conversation. What was the first Biz Markie song you ever heard? How do you remember him as an MC? Are there any Biz Markie TV or film appearances that you think fondly of? Give us a call or send us a text at 212-433-9692. That is 212-433 WNYC. You can also reach out to us at All Of It, WNYC. Sacha, what was your first exposure to Biz Markie?

Sacha Jenkins: Growing up in Queens listening to the mixed shows and growing up in the shadows of Queensbridge Housing Projects, I was in the mix of the Juice Crew, which Biz was a pivotal member of that crew and was just a fan. Just music I grew up to, grew up with and I have such fond memories of his music when I first encountered it.

Arun Venugopal: When are we talking about? Which years are we talking about?

Sacha Jenkins: '85, '86.

Arun Venugopal: Sure.

Sacha Jenkins: Way back in my golden years.

Arun Venugopal: [laughs] Tara, tell me, when did you first meet Biz?

Tara Hall: The first time I met Biz was about 2003, this was before Hurricane Katrina, and it had to have been 2003 in New Orleans at the Superdome.

Arun Venugopal: What was he like when you first met him?

Tara Hall: The first time I met Biz, he was actually working. He was DJing. He was spinning a huge party inside of the Superdome, and he was amazing. He was talking to me literally over the turntables, and that's how I met him.

Arun Venugopal: What struck you about his personality back then?

Tara Hall: He's just a fun-loving guy, always in a good mood. The first time I met Biz, like I said, I met him at a party and he was just talking to me and asking me like, "What's your name?" I said, "My name is Tara." He asked me what city do I live in? I said I live in New York. Keep in mind this whole time Biz is spinning this party. Then he said, "Well, what's your phone number?" Tables, he's never going to remember, so I just blurted out my number 1234567. He kept it moving. He was like, "Okay, I'm going to call you on Monday." I'm like, "Yes, right. Whatever."

That Monday came rolling around and sure enough, my phone rang and I answered it and he said, "I told you I was going to remember your number," and I was so impressed and shocked because he didn't write my number down. He was doing two and three things at the same time, let alone DJing and listening to my phone number. I was very impressed with that. I was like, "Wow, this guy's got the most amazing memory." Shortly after that, we became fast friends. [chuckles]

Arun Venugopal: Sacha, this documentary that you've made features figures in Hip Hop like Fat Joe, Nick Cannon, also features comedian Tracy Morgan. What did Biz Markie represent as an MC within the culture and community of Hip Hop artists at large?

Sacha Jenkins: He represented the possibilities of Hip Hop, the freedom of Hip Hop, the whimsical nature of Hip Hop. He didn't take himself seriously yet he was very serious about what he was doing. That determination, I think, is something that crosses over whatever genre, whatever person you are, what kind of human you are. Anyone can relate to someone who's really determined, who doesn't give up, who's an underdog, who no one really expected much from him and that's something I can relate to. Growing up in Queens, not many people expected much of me either. I can credit Hip Hop with giving me lots of opportunities, and I think Biz can say the same.

Arun Venugopal: One thing about the documentary that's unique is how you lift this veil on his personal life, and especially with his relationship with Tara, his wife. When did you realize that their relationship was going to be central to telling the story of Biz Markie's life?

Sacha Jenkins: So many people loved him, and he was not doing well during COVID and so, so many people didn't get to see him and that's a part of Biz's life that so many people loved and wish they were a part of. They wish that they could be there for him. The simple facts of the matter was it COVID time and the only person who was tenacious enough to get in there was his best friend, aka his wife. The only people who knew what went down was Biz, who's no longer here, his wife, and maybe some nurses and some doctors. I thought it was important for people to understand that he did have love the whole time and that he was fighting.

He was doing the best he could under the circumstances. He didn't want to leave. He's hung around for like a year and change. This is someone who was a fighter who wanted to be here. Unfortunately, it didn't pan out that way, but his personality is so strong. In many ways, he is still here.

Arun Venugopal: Tara, we've got these scenes set, these very innovative filmmaking scenes in the documentary. There's animation going on, but there's also this very offbeat choice of staging you in the hospital room by Biz's side and he's represented by a Muppet. [laughs] Tell me about, as you the wife of Biz Markie interacting with his Muppet, who represents your husband, how did this work out? Was this something that Sacha came up with and how did he direct you in these moments?

Tara Hall: [laughs] It was pretty wild. Sacha and Andre, one of the producers on the film, they literally held my hand through the whole process. I remember that day that I walked on to the set and the gentleman met me right at the door, and I'm like, "What's going on?" They just said, "We just want to make sure you're going to be okay for what you're about to see because they had the whole hospital scene all set up. They had the puppet there, they had the nurses, the doctors, the whole scene, and they just really wanted to make sure that I was okay, especially after what you just said, Biz had been hospitalized for an entire year and some change before he passed away.

When I walked into that set, it did take me back. When I read the script, just tears were streaming down my eyes because they wrote a beautiful script from our meetings and some of my copious notes that I took throughout Biz's hospitalization. The puppet, anybody that knows Biz, he would have loved it. It's something that he actually talked to Sacha about. Even Biz's business card was a character of himself. His backpack that he carried, his laptop in was a character of himself. Biz used to be on Yo Gabba Gabba! He was just one of the big characters. I think Biz really looked at himself that way, that he was just like a big fun doll when he was alive.

It didn't take me back too much to see the puppet. By the way, they did such an amazing job down to the gray hairs and his goatee and the way it moved. It really was amazing. As I was going through the scenes, it actually became very cathartic for me to get that out. It was important for the fans to see the last part, of course, of Biz's life. I always say it was a very hard thing for me to really live through, and it was scary, but it was more important for that story to get out than of me being afraid and scary. We just knocked it out. We did it. Sacha believed in me. I don't know how he thought I could do it, but I did it. I just trusted Sacha throughout this whole process, and he really put the puzzle pieces together and made an incredible film.

Arun Venugopal: We are going to play a clip now. Let me just set this up. This is Biz Markie's foster brother, Diamond Shell and his foster sister, Sue Parker. They're reminiscing on the first time that they met Biz when he came to live with them. Let's take a listen.

[music]

Diamond Shell: I remember my mom telling me, "There's going to be a new member in the house. Try to be nice to him."

Sue Parker: I was outside when he got dropped off with the social worker. The first thing he said is, "Hey, I'm allergic to grass." That was this, "What kid is allergic to grass?" That's the first story he told me. The second story he told me as he's walking by is, "I can only wear PRO-Keds on my feet. The doctor only prescribes PRO-Keds for me."

[laughter]

Arun Venugopal: Even at this young age, we hear, I guess, this larger-than-life like, "Who is this guy thing?" Sacha, is this a theme that you gathered from other people you spoke to, this is wild spirit that we came to know of in Biz Markie?

Sacha Jenkins: Yes. I've done a few films in my day, but never has the description of someone who's no longer alive been so consistent. Everyone consistently has the same stories and the same impression of who he was. That's why it was so impactful on so many people and why so many people wanted to be in the film, but we couldn't get everyone, obviously. He was consistently himself. I think that's something that we all aspire to be consistently ourselves, but you got to start with knowing who you are. He knew who he was at a very young age and that's something that most people don't know who they are until they're in their twilight years, like myself.

Arun Venugopal: All right. Let's take a call. This is Craig calling in from Queens. Hi, Craig.

Craig: Hey, good afternoon to you and your guests. My condolences to the widow of Biz Markie.

Tara Hall: Thank you.

Craig: Biz might have been-- Thank you. I'm sorry about that. Biz might have been from Long Island but he showed mad love to South Jamaica, Queens. The Amazing Dewitt, Grandmaster Vic, they brought him to the Park Jams, or he showed up at the Park Jams before he had a record freestyling, and then Ralph McDaniels. You see Biz later on a video, and you be like, "This was the guy the summer before jamming in the park for free." This is in the late '80s, early '80s when hip hop was still amazing thing to behold because you could be up and close and personal with people. Mr. Cheeks in the park.

Biz always came to the park. He always shows Queen's love. To see him and his success, and then years later to sit with my son and watch him on Yo Gabba Gabba! Even when he transitioned from rap to DJing, I was so happy that he had a career because he was truly a good guy. I never personally shook his hand, met him, nothing like that, but like I said, I was one of the people in the crowd that he entertained with the microphone. He came to our neighborhood, and he was a good dude.

Arun Venugopal: Thank you. Craig calling in from Queens for that memory of Biz Markie. One thing I'd like to ask you, Tara, concerns the clips in the documentary where even people who knew him very well said that when it came to his childhood, there were things that he didn't want to go there in some respects because even after being embraced by a foster family, there were parts of his life prior to that, struggles that seemed to be very wounding. As his wife, was that something that he was more open with in terms of more vulnerable with when it came to talking about that period of his life?

Tara Hall: Of course. People will learn in the film the most awful things happened to him. He saw his mother collapse in front of him and die when he was like five or six years old. The amount of trauma that that caused him, things could have gone so differently for Biz. He could have been a bitter individual. He could have been mad at the world but he didn't. He changed that. He wanted to be joyful. He wanted to stay a child. If you knew Biz, if people met Biz, anybody that knows Biz knows that he was like a big kid. I'm not a doctor, but I think he just wanted to preserve that part of him when his mother was alive and his family was together.

Of course, we would talk about things like that, but I'm telling you, I am also one of those people that have that same story about Biz. Biz was always in a good mood, even at home, even family man Biz. He came home, he came through those doors, and he would just yell out, "Tara. Avery," our daughter and Major our dog. "I'm home." It was just on and it was fun. That was one of Biz's superpowers is that he could stay in that kind of mood all the time. It really was incredible. I've never seen him in a bad mood. I've known Biz for 20 years. I've never seen that man in a bad mood. He should have been, you know what I mean? Everybody would've understood.

It's really true that he just, instead of being in a sunken place and being in a negative space by the things that happened to him in his life, he turned it around and he became the icon that he was and is.

Arun Venugopal: Let's take another call. This is Nelson calling in from Bellport, Long Island. Hi, Nelson.

Nelson: Hello. Hi, everyone. My condolences to the wife. I would just like to say my memory of Biz goes back way back to maybe mid-'80s when he used to come to golf with my brother. He used to be a DJ, and he used to come to the basement parties. He does his little skit where he beatboxes. People are like, "What is that noise? What is he doing? What's going on?" But it sounds hot and it sounds deaf, but no one knew what he was doing. He wasn't really rhyming, he was just beatboxing along with the record and sounding just like the record or sometimes even better than the record.

Just remembering all the great times. My good friend of mine, Jimbo, he used to barber shop with, he used to come up there and he'll just sit in the barbershop for hours and hours talking to people coming in and out, having great conversations, giving people a little bit of money, even here and there. Not much money, but just a little bit of money. Just a real genuine good guy. I'd just like to say rest in peace, my brother. You did good. Thank you.

Arun Venugopal: Thank you, Nelson.

Tara Hall: Another story.

Arun Venugopal: Let's listen to another clip from the documentary All Up in the Biz. This is Biz's former manager, Bernard Alexander, describing the crowd's reaction to Just a Friend in Detroit.

Bernard Alexander: Fast forward, we are literally in Detroit. The sound goes off, Biz goes on last, and all he says is, "You." They turn the mic off and the crowd sings. You can look at his lips telling me, "I told you, Bernard." I'm like, "Wow. He's not even a rap star no more. He's a pop star."

Arun Venugopal: Sacha, anything more to add to that? This is not just a moment for Biz Markie but for, I guess, the industry in general because had anybody really heard anything like that before?

Sacha Jenkins: What's great about Biz is it goes beyond the industry. He's the essence, the purest essence, the purest distillation of hip hop in the physical form that predates any music industry, that just goes back to when we were kids trying to express ourselves, trying to make a name for ourselves, trying to feel good about ourselves. When hip hop made us feel good about ourselves. I'm not saying hip hop today doesn't make people feel good about themselves, but I think the hip hop for my day, and I'm an old man but I'm going to tell you, hip hop for my day made us feel good about ourselves. I think that's what Biz represents. I hope that there are more people making music that make us feel good about ourselves. Hopefully, people can take from Biz's example and follow suit.

Arun Venugopal: We got a few minutes left. If you have a call or if you just have a text to send in about what Biz Markie meant to you, that number is 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC, or you can, say, tweet at us or, what do you call it, X us, whatever that term is now @AllOfItWNYC. Tara, any particular moments that, for you, when you're watching the documentary, really stand out in terms of who he was or what he meant to the people around him?

Tara Hall: He was just an amazing guy. You can only imagine what kind of father and what kind of husband he was to me. He was one in a gazillion. Every time I see the film, just another little piece tugs at my heartstrings. The last time I saw it, which was at the Tribeca Film Festival, and just looking back at the day that we got married, I'm looking at this, and Biz and I had said our vows, and then Biz said at the end of it, "Thank you." [chuckles] It still gets me. Just thinking about it now, you don't have to thank me. Thank you. I don't know, there's just so many parts in the film. When Biz--

Oh my gosh, you know what? I don't want to say too much more about the film. I want people to really tune in and tell me what they think. He was a beautiful, beautiful soul, and I mean that with everything I am.

Arun Venugopal: We've been speaking to Tara Hall, the wife of the late Biz Markie, and the director of a new documentary about the life of the rapper called All Up In The Biz. It premieres on Showtime and Paramount+ this Friday, August 11th. Thank you both for joining us today.

Sacha Jenkins: Thank you.

Tara Hall: Thanks for having me.

Arun Venugopal: Let's go out on a song. This is Just a Friend by Biz Markie.

[MUSIC - Biz Markie: Just a Friend]

Have you ever met a girl that you tried to date,

But a year to make love she wanted you to wait?

Let me tell a story of my situation,

I was talkin' to this girl from the US nation,

The way that I met her was on tour, at a concert,

She had long hair and a short miniskirt,

I just got on stage, drippin', pourin' with sweat,

I was walkin' through the crowd, and guess who I met,

I whispered in her ear, "Come to the picture booth,

So I can ask you some questions to see if ya hundred proof."

I asked her her name, she said, "Blah-blah-blah."

She had 9/10 pants and a very big bra,

I took a couple of flicks, and she was enthused,

I said, "How do you like the show?" She said, "I was very amused."

I started throwin' bass, she started throwin' back mid-range,

But when I sprung the question, she acted kind of strange,

Then when I asked, "Do ya have a man?", she tried to pretend.

 

Copyright © 2023 New York Public Radio. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use at www.wnyc.org for further information.

New York Public Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline, often by contractors. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of New York Public Radio’s programming is the audio record.