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Alison Stewart: This is All of It from WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. All this week, we're playing excerpts of my conversation with Jonathan Eig, the author of King: A Life. It's the first new comprehensive biography of Martin Luther King Jr. in more than three decades, and it minds newly release materials including diaries, FBI documents, White House logs, and audio recordings. It's not only a meticulously research book about the Civil Rights Movement, but also about King, the person.

We played the full conversation on our show on Monday in honor of Juneteenth. Because it was a holiday for many of us, we didn't want you to miss any part of it. All week long, we're playing portions of my discussion with Jonathan Eig, so let's continue this month full bio conversation.

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Our June full bio choice King: A Life by Jonathan Eig was described in the Chicago Tribune as getting to "the man, not the myth" and that includes his eye for the ladies before and during this marriage. Eig quotes one of MLK's closest aides in saying, "When MLK was in college, he 'would try to make sure he could win the girlfriend of the tallest, handsomest guy on the campus' and that became a bit of a habit I feel."

MLK Junior's parents wanted him to marry a family friend in Georgia and become an Atlanta power couple. He thought otherwise especially after being introduced to a music conservatory student, Coretta Scott. King told her on their first date that she had all the traits he was looking for in a wife, "intelligence, character, beauty, and personality". Coretta was also far ahead of him on the issue of Civil Rights. Let's hear more about Coretta and Martin from Jonathan Eig.

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I want to talk about Coretta Scott King now. Before Coretta Scott King, MLK Jr. dated around a bit. He had a relationship with a white woman named Amilia Elizabeth Moitz. This was '49, '50, segregation was the rule of the day. How open were they about the relationship? Amilia and Martin?

Jonathan Eig: They were quite open. This was in Chester, Pennsylvania, so had they been in the deep South, it would have been a very different story. At least in Chester, they felt comfortable sitting on a park bench together holding hands and strolling around this tiny little campus, and everybody on campus knew they were dating. In fact, everybody knew that Betty had been dating a professor and young Martin stole her away from this professor, so it was impossible not to notice them.

Moreover, it became a subject of discussion because King was in love and he was asking his friends, "Do you think I could marry a white girl, and how would that affect my career? How would that affect my ability to return home to the South?" There were a lot of discussions, and he spoke to one of his mentors, J. Pius Barbour who was a Black Minister in the area around where he was attending school and he said, "What do you think? Would you marry us right now?" Barbour said, "I think it would be a big mistake for you at this point in your life and your career." King said, "Well, maybe love is more important than my career." He thought about it, but he eventually decided that it was too much of a risk and he broke things off with Betty.

Alison Stewart: Once he realizes that he can't marry this woman for various reasons, including his career prospects, he begins looking to get married. What qualities did a preacher's wife need to have at the time was he looking for?

Jonathan Eig: The interesting thing about King and his dating is that he never lacked for dates. He was always very active. He sometimes was dating more-- He was usually dating more than one woman at a time. He really seem to enjoy the company of women, but he also felt like he wanted to marry quickly and marry early. In part because it was good for a preacher seeking his first job to show that he was established, that he was settled into a marriage, that he was going to be a good preacher and a good part of the community, that he was going to stay a while and raise kids. It was part of the resume of a young preacher looking for a job.

By the time King leaves Crozer and moves to Boston in pursuit of his doctorate, he's dating a lot of women and they're very bright women. For the most part, they're college students, often times graduate students. He's making it very clear that he's looking for a preacher's wife. That he intends to return to the South, become a preacher, and that he's looking for a woman who wants to be his partner in this new enterprise.

Alison Stewart: What does that mean to be a partner at this time in the enterprise of being a preacher? Not just necessarily for him, just in general.

Jonathan Eig: In the early 1950s, not a lot of women were working out of the home. Most of them when they got married saw their jobs as being housewives and raising the children, and that was especially true for the wives of preachers. Especially true for the wives of Baptist preachers in the South. A woman marrying young ML King would know that she was likely going to be in this role where her job is pastor's wife and that this comes with great public role, public face where you're expected to be in church every Sunday showing off your well-dressed, well-mannered children, and that you're going to be on committees, that you're going to help with church social functions. That you're not going to really have a career of your own, and that was difficult for some of the women that King met because these were ambitious women who were in graduate school and thinking about maybe the world is ready for a little bit more of an independent woman.

Alison Stewart: Coretta Scott grew up in around Marion, Alabama, a small town of about 3,000 people. She was one of three children. She went to Antioch College, she went on to a music conservatory in Boston. What was going on in Coretta Scott's life before she met MLK?

Jonathan Eig: Coretta Scott was a couple years older than MLK, and she was a very serious young woman. She had gone to Antioch College which was a white college that accepted Black students, but primarily white. She had been very active there on campus in social movements. She protested a barbershop that wouldn't cut black hair, she fought with the university because they wouldn't let Black students do student teaching in white schools.

She was more of an activist at that point than MLK, and I think that's a big part of what attracted King to Coretta. When they met for their first date, I think he was blown away by the fact that she had been involved in all of these protest already, because he hadn't done anything yet. He'd been focused on his schooling and he had not been a part of any organized protests. That's what separated Coretta because King had a lot of dates with a lot of beautiful, intelligent women, but none who had the resume that Coretta had.

Alison Stewart: We actually found a 1960 WNYC interview where the interviewer asked Coretta Scott King to describe her first impressions of MLK.

Coretta: Well, I had known some things about him before we met, so I suppose I had some preconceived ideas. First, I knew he was a minister, and I knew he was studying at Boston University for his doctorate, and I had been told that he was a very fine and promising young man and a very nice person. I had these things in my mind when I met him. I thought he was a very fine person, a nice person, a likable person. When we had had a chance to talk and get to know each other a little, I thought he was very nice. Of course, I think it was almost-- I wouldn't say exactly I met love at first sight, but we liked each other, I think a great deal, and we seem to have a great deal in common.

Alison Stewart: In the clip, she would say, "Oh, he was nice enough, and we were friendly, and we had a lot in common." It's interesting because they were married for so long, but we'll talk about this later, he was not faithful. What do you think was the glue of their marriage?

Jonathan Eig: I think the glue was the movement. I talk to Harry Belafonte about this a lot. Belafonte thought that they have a business partnership and that they loved each other, and trusted each other, and relied on each other. Belafonte thought that King never got over his love of Betty Moitz, the white girl that he dated at Crozer. He loved Coretta in a different way, and sometimes it felt a little bit dry to him, and that may have been a function of her personality.

There's no question that King respected her ambition, her intelligence, and her passion for justice, and that was really what I think kept them together more than anything else. Then, of course, their kids and their love for their kids that they share. In the beginning and certainly in the early days, I think the glue was the struggle for justice.

One of the things that I often think about is that when King won the Nobel Prize, it was Coretta who said, "We now have a greater responsibility to fight not just for justice in America, but all over the world. To think about things like world peace, and hunger, poverty, because the Noble Prize gives us a greater sense of responsibility." She saw that as something that they both had to live up to.

Alison Stewart: My guest is Alison Stewart. The name of the biography is King: A Life. Coretta Scott and Martin Luther King Jr. marry in June of 1953. What did Coretta have to give up to become Mrs. Martin Luther King Jr.?

Jonathan Eig: Coretta gave up a lot. First of all, most obviously her singing career. She really wanted to be a concert singer and she wanted to use her voice to raise awareness and to raise money for social causes. It became clear once she decided that she would marry King and move to the South, that that wasn't going to happen. There was no way she could have a concert career while raising a family, being the pastor's wife, and raising children in the deep south.

She shifted for a little while thinking that maybe she'd become a music teacher, that she could give piano lessons and voice lessons, but even that, she didn't have time for and had to sacrifice over. I found recordings that Coretta made while working on her first memoir just after her husband's death and in these recordings, she says, over and over, "And that too, I had to accept. And that too, I had to accept." Then once she came to realize that her husband was not faithful, that too she had to accept. She discovered that very early, even before they were married when they were engaged, she discovered that he was still seeing another woman. She says even then, that she had to learn to accept that.

Alison Stewart: From your research, it is clear that King strayed from his marriage and that she did know he was not faithful, and seems he had a couple of ongoing relationships. There was even an apartment nearby home where he would stay sometimes and meet up with women later in his life. The FBI would seek to use this information to try to bully him into silence. Anywhere in your research, did he show or write why he did this? Did he show any kind of remorse or shame?

Jonathan Eig: Well, he certainly expressed remorse, not specifically for this. He never addressed the affairs, but he talked about the guilt that he felt for his sins, for his failures, and it's clear that this was one of them and he talked to friends about it. He talked to people like Ralph Abernathy and Andrew Young, and they asked him, "Why don't you stop? You know the FBI is trying to destroy your marriage. You know they're listening to your phone calls. They know about these other women." At one point the FBI made a recording of some of King's conversations and some of his activities in a hotel room and sent it to Coretta.

When his friends asked him, "Why? Why don't you stop? You know this is dangerous. You know that if it's exposed, it will destroy your reputation." King just said he couldn't. He couldn't stop if he tried, and the friends I talked to really couldn't explain that any more than just repeating what he said.

Alison Stewart: My guest is Jonathan Eig. The name of the biography is King: A Life. The Kings moved to Montgomery, Alabama, where MLK accepted a position as a pastor at Dexter Avenue Baptist Church. What was it about the congregation in Montgomery that appealed to a then-25-year-old MLK?

Jonathan Eig: Once again, King broke from his father. His father said, "Don't go to Dexter, it's lily white and uptight." He said that it wasn't white, of course, but it was a Black church, but it had a reputation for being very conservative and being hoity-toity and that's where the Black College professors all attended and, daddy King thought it was too snobby for his son. Dexter had a reputation for being a powerful church where great ideas were exchanged, where people challenged authority.

The prior minister there, Vernon Johns was a legend and he liked to make even his own congregation uncomfortable pushing them to really think about what they could and should be doing to change the society in which they were living. I think King was really drawn to that. It was a big prominent church with a great reputation, and of course, he didn't know that he was about to find himself in the center of this great storm of protest.

Alison Stewart: Well, what did they see in him? This church? He's a young guy.

Jonathan Eig: Yes, he's a kid. Some of the church elders thought he was too young and that there was no way that anybody was going to respect this kid. It didn't help that he was five, six and a half, and looked like he was about 17 years old, but he quickly earned their respect because he was such a beautiful speaker and so brilliant combining philosophy with religion. I think they were really moved just by the power of his intellect more than anything else and he was just absolutely charming.

He made the rounds, he got to know people. He shot pool with the teenagers and went to backyard barbecues and learned people's names and really just seemed to be a great listener. That's one of the things we forget about King, even when he becomes this great leader of the Civil Rights Movement when he's got the pressure of the world on his shoulders, he's a great listener and he's a leader who understands and wants to work with other people, not boss them around.

Alison Stewart: The King's move to Montgomery in August of 1954. This is two months after Brown v. Board of Education struck down school segregation. What impact would that ruling about schooling have on King's early trajectory as a civil rights leader, even before he was a civil rights leader?

Jonathan Eig: Yes, even before he is a leader, a couple of big things happened that seem to create this momentum that will soon affect his life. First of all, as you said, Brown v. Board of Education is an earthquake that rattles America that says change is coming whether you like it or not. All over the South white segregationists are trying to figure out how they can preserve the power structure, and preserve their all-white schools, even if it means shutting down public schools in some cases. Black people are thinking, "Okay, the government agrees with us, segregation is wrong. How do we keep fighting for more? How do we keep fighting for more integration?"

At the same time roughly, just shortly after Emmett Till is murdered in Mississippi, and the images of his body, at his funeral really shock America and again, force or compel a lot of Black people to think that this is a moment where we can fight for change. One of those people who happens to hear a lecture about Emmett Till is Rosa Parks, a young activist, and seamstress in Montgomery, who is ready to help lead that fight.

It just so happens that Montgomery becomes the epicenter of the next big protest, and that emerges when people decide that they're not going to take the treatment on those buses that Rosa Parks refuses to get up from her bus seat, and Montgomery decides it's time to boycott those buses and to send a message that we are not going to take it anymore.

Alison Stewart: Let's give people a picture of Montgomery at this moment. You quote a Black newspaper from 1953, and this is the quote, "Montgomery is fast taking the lead as Alabama's most enlightened city." What was it about Montgomery, Alabama that would have a newspaper write that about it and made it a fertile place for the Civil Rights Movement to take root?

Jonathan Eig: Well, Alabama had been one of the great or most horrendous states in the country when it came to enslavement. At one point, the vast majority of the state had been made up of enslaved people. By the time the 1950s come around, there are some signs of progress. One of the minor league baseball teams is integrated and some cities in Alabama are experimenting with integration of the buses. There's a sense that Montgomery is perhaps a little bit more progressive than place like Birmingham just down the road a bit and that fuels hopes.

I think the fact that there are some small signs of progress in Montgomery really helps pave the way for the Montgomery bus boycott because when the community decides to organize, there's already a sense that the machinery is in place, that we know how to motivate people that we've got the potential here. There are several strong Black leaders, and NAACP and other activists who have been fighting for voting rights, who've been fighting to try to integrate the buses in the schools, and that they're ready to really make a big commitment to come together and to really see if they can get everybody to refuse to ride those buses after Rosa Parks' arrest.

Alison Stewart: It's interesting to think though, that at this moment of the bus boycott, MLK wasn't really a leader in the movement. You even write that in 1955 he was looking for other positions, he'd gone to interview for a role at Dillard. His first daughter had been born just a few weeks before Rosa Parks wouldn't move from her seat on the bus, then the bus boycott began. Initially, how did he get involved with the bus boycott at all?

Jonathan Eig: This is one of those great moments in history when you think about what might have been because King was very close to accepting a job out of town. He was ready thinking about moving to New Orleans, and then this bus boycott begins and they're looking for somebody who will step up as the official spokesman. They're not even asking for someone to lead the movement, they're just looking for somebody to stand up and give the big speech on the first day to see if people are ready to do this thing and they turn to King, not because he's the most famous or the most the bravest, the smartest guy in town, it's because he's new, and he hasn't made any enemies yet. They figured that maybe there won't be too much division that people from different churches, different parts of town, might all be willing to listen to this guy. Most people in town don't even know who he is at that point. Most Black people are coming together to hear him speak for the first time. This is really the moment when King finds his voice, finds his real identity, but he's not even sure he wants the job. He has a panic attack a few minutes before he has to give the speech because he's just really not sure what he's doing or whether he's doing the right thing.

Alison Stewart: This led to a moment that Martin Luther King is described as the moment that God called him to lead. How did he describe it?

Jonathan Eig: He finds out that he's going to be speaking at Holt Street Baptist Church, and as I mentioned, he's got just minutes to prepare, and he has a panic attack. Now he's got even less time to prepare. He rushes to this church, with just a few notes sketched about what he might say. As he gets there, traffic blocks, and he has to get out half a mile from the church and start walking. It's only then that he realizes that this traffic is because the church is packed. There are thousands in the seats, in the aisles, in the rafters, and thousands more spilling out onto the streets. There are workers setting up loudspeakers so that people outside the church can hear too.

King has to wedge his way into the church and gets up there to make the speech and has never faced an audience like this before. That's when he really finds his way his voice. He begins by saying, "We're here for serious business, and we're here to find out whether the Constitution of the United States means something. We're here to find out if the words contained in the Bible are really true, and that we have an opportunity to prove to America that America is capable of embracing true democracy, embracing true justice, and if we are wrong, the Constitution is wrong. If we are wrong, God Almighty is wrong."

The crowd just explodes. They have never heard anything like this. That moment, King really becomes the leader and becomes not just the leader of this bus boycott in Montgomery but becomes a voice for a generation.

Alison Stewart: Our guest has been Jonathan Eig, author of "King: A Life,” it's our choice for Full Bio. Tomorrow we'll discuss more about that pivotal year 1955, that launched the 20-something new pastor and father into this leadership role that he originally did not seek. That's tomorrow.

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