Little Richard: King of Rock 'N Roll

This 1966 file photo shows Little Richard.
( (AP Photo, File) )

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Alison Stewart: This is All of It, on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. The Huffington Post describes the new documentary, Little Richard: I Am Everything this way, "This is one of those instances where a film thoughtfully reexamines previously established truths about a musician's legacy so fervently, that it completely upends you. Take, for example, what we learn about this hit song--"

Little Richard: Wop bop a loo bop a lop bom bom

Tutti frutti, oh rootie

A wop bop a loo bop a lop ba ba

I got a gal, named Sue, she knows just what to do

She rock to the East, she rock to the West

But she's the gal that I love best

Tutti frutti, oh rootie

Alison Stewart: There's a whole other layer to the song, that we learn in the film, that the original lyrics were Tutti frutti, good booty, and that the words go on to suggest that he was singing about a way two people can have sex. Little Richard was a Rock 'n' Roll icon, and queer, and religious, and unique, and complicated. Born in 1932, in Macon, Georgia, Richard Wayne Penniman was one of 12 children.

He took what he learned in church, on the Chitlin circuit, and in drag clubs, and blended it all into a form of music that had not been heard before, but definitely has since. In the trills of Paul McCartney, the fluidity of Prince, and the swagger of Jagger. Mick is in the film, along with Nona Hendryx, John Waters, Tom Jones, Corey Henry, and many more who owe a lot to him. There's a special screening of the film today, countrywide, here in New York.

It'll be at the Quad, the Nighthawks, the Regal, and Astoria. You should check the Google for other locations. Joining me now is director Lisa Cortes, last time we spoke to her was with her film, All In: The Fight for Democracy. Lisa, welcome back.

Lisa Cortes: Hello. Good afternoon.

Alison Stewart: When you came aboard this project-- Little Richard passed away in 2020, you realized there had not been a Little Richard documentary, which is wild to think about. Why do you think that was?

Lisa Cortes: I didn't think too much about why it wasn't, but I saw the great opportunity it offered for me to interrogate someone whose music I loved, but whose style and swag I equally appreciated.

Alison Stewart: When you put your archival team to work, what did you tell them you were looking for? What were some of the questions that you wanted answered?

Lisa Cortes: I think the scaffolding of this film is Little Richard's voice, giving him agency. It was important for me to give him the mic so he could tell his story. What I asked the archival team is to do a very deep dive and identify his narration of the seminal moments in his life, but I also knew that I then needed to have other voices from our incredible scholars, family, friends, and musicians, who could sometimes counter the story, that our unreliable narrator was giving to us.

Alison Stewart: Let's listen to the very first minute of the film, which is Richard being interviewed by a British interviewer, who looks a little bit confused, to be honest. [laughs] Richard, I'm going to try to paint the picture, is wearing a peach-colored ensemble jumpsuit, has a Wonder Woman-like headband on, lip liner, eyeliner, heavy pancake makeup, and this is how the film Little Richard: I'm Everything starts.

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Interviewer: Little Richard, it's now 16 years since you've had your first hits.

Little Richard: Oh, yes.

Interviewer: Do you realize that-- Well, you must realize, that your performances, now, there are people who weren't even alive when you first began.

Little Richard: Yes, but I have woke 'em up now. Everybody that wasn't alive when I started, and was gone, I have brought their spirit and put it on 'em.

Interviewer: Were you always so shy?

Little Richard: No, I'm not-- A lot of people say I'm shy, but-- I let it all hang out. Every bit. The love, the gentleness, the tenderness, the kindness. You ain't supposed to hide 'em. You got it, God gave it, show it to the world.

Alison Stewart: Why was that the clip to start this film, Little Richard: I Am Everything?

Lisa Cortes: Initially, it was starting just with the interview. When we got the footage in, my editor discovered him noodling on the piano, which-- Actually, the music is always the gateway to Richard, and it was one of those beautiful archival discoveries, that sets up the complexities of the journey we're going to go on. What you didn't share is that not only is he wearing his Wonder Woman headband, but it says King on it. Even if the world is not giving him his flowers, he is asserting his place within this constellation of Rock 'N Roll.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk a little bit about Little Richard's childhood. He was one of 12 children. When did it become clear that he was different?

Lisa Cortes: Well, there's some crazy stories that Richard talks about in his autobiography, where he used to defecate in boxes and give them to people in the neighborhood as gifts, and would wait till they opened them up. At a very early age, he had a twisted sense of humor, but I think the tragic course of his life gets set in his teens, when his father said, "I wanted seven boys and you are throwing it off because you're gay," and he is kicked out of his home.

He ultimately is reconciled with his father, but his father's kicking him out of their home really sets Richard on this course to discover a chosen family of queer, non-normative people, who help to propel him, and support him as an artist and as an individual.

Alison Stewart: There's an interesting moment in the film where you point out that his parents went to different churches, which I really found interesting. What impact did that have on him, musically? His parents going to two different churches, and him hearing two different kinds of church music.

Lisa Cortes: Well, it wasn't just only the two different kinds of churches, it was also the experience of worship. One church, where he went to with his mother was much more stayed and conservative. The church he went to with his father was Holy Roller. It was up and down. That's just like one of the many early contradictions that Richard is seen in his life. His father's a minister, and his father owns a nightclub. His father is a bootlegger.

Back in those days, none of those professions, for respectable people, were supposed to live together. He's seen, I think, these tremendous contradictions, in the landscape of his early life

Alison Stewart: That plays out later in his life. He has this back-and-forth, push and pull with the church, and with how he's allowed to be within the church. Did you get a sense of why it was such a back-and-forth? Is it a repeat of what he saw in his family? Is it his faith? Is it culture, making him have to be in that push and pull?

Lisa Cortes: Well, specifically, the rollercoaster that Richard's on is, he cannot come to terms with his queerness, with being a Rock 'N Roller, and being a man of faith. He does not know how to hold all of that, and his understanding is that those multitudes cannot live alongside one another. He's like this pendulum. He has his moment, he's a huge star, then he gives it all away, he goes to Bible college, and he's a serious student. Then he is pulled back to rock and roll, and he enjoys that platform.

Then, once again, he leaves it all behind, he's selling Bibles, and speaking at large assemblies. It's a lot of artists who have a similar pull. I think we see it, in the Marvin Gaye story, and what happened in his life, the son of a preacher man, but he's singing this sexual music. We see a little bit in Sam Cooke, who starts out in gospel music and then moves to, straight ahead, beautiful R&B and pop music.

It was very difficult for these people, who have such a strong foundation in the church, to reconcile with desire and musics that are antithetical to what they have been taught, what the church approves of.

Alison Stewart: My guest is director Lisa Cortes. The name of the film is Little Richard: I Am Everything. The special screening's today, it opens wide on April 21st, I should mention, and on-demand. He got his start at a place called Ann's Tic Toc. How was he able to develop there?

Lisa Cortes: I was in Atlanta for my niece's graduation, when I knew I was going to be working on this project. I actually borrowed my sister's car and drove to Macon. I was like, "I need to feel this place. I need to see what's going on." The first thing that blew my mind in Macon is, if you go down to the old train station, which is now defunct, it's other municipal building, but you still see the sign that says colored waiting room. There's been no sandblasting of this history.

I went to the library, I met the Macon librarian who was born and raised there, and I ultimately ended up interviewing her. She told me this amazing story of, Richard gets kicked out of his home. He is taken in by the couple who own Ann's Tic Toc, which, as she says, we would call a gay bar. It is the 1940s Macon, Georgia. There's a gay bar in the south, where Black and white people are together. It didn't surprise me, because this has always been a part of the fabric of our country.

Even this whole thing, when Richard then goes on the Chitlin' Circuit and performs in drag, which we lovingly go into in the film, he's not the first. There are drag balls, and there is drag culture, that is documented in the 1800s. I love seeing, specifically to Ann's Tic Toc, how he found that first community outside of his family, that loved on him that supported him. That is why Sister Rosetta Tharpe is so important in his life. She sees him. She invites him on stage when he's 14. She is queer herself.

This queer narrative, this Black queer narrative, in the origin story, in Rock 'N Roll, is one that's been erased. The story that has been told was whitewashed. That eraser is what concerns me, and what I'm hoping this film is corrective of.

Alison Stewart: Also, I think this film's a great class in musicology, and music history, because we meet so many people. We hear about Rosetta Tharpe and Lucille Bogan. Two people that the film spent some time introducing us to are Billy Wright and Esquerita, who were foundational for Little Richard. For people who haven't heard their music before, let's play a little bit of Billy Wright.

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Billy Wright: Hey, little girl

Oh, you fine, fine thing

Hey, little girl

Oh, you fine, fine thing

Alison Stewart: Then, let's hear a little bit of Esquerita.

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Esquerita: Hey, Miss Lucy,

You’re too fat and juicy for me

Hey, Miss Lucy,

You’re too fat and juicy for me

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Alison Stewart: What did you want people to know about Billy Wright and Esquerita, as well as Little Richard? I think, to your point, there's a lot to learn about Rock 'NRoll history.

Lisa Cortes: These are artists, Black artists, traveling through the South, who are out. They are queer. They have here as high as, in the case of Esquerita, Little Richard, but they are also innovative for Rock 'N Roll, for this synthesis of boogie-woogie performance and really distinctive vocals, that offer mirrors and possibility for Richard.

Alison Stewart: It's this push and pull. Little Richard talks about himself being an emancipator of Rock 'N Roll. We see later in the film, he will claim his space even if people aren't going to give it. I thought that was just so sad, because he wasn't able to be free himself, ultimately, from his religious upbringing.

Lisa Cortes: I think that is part of the great poignancy of his story. He's very bold and innovative, but he can't reconcile his desire and his faith. Now, he gives the code to so many other artists.

Alison Stewart: He is hiding in plain sight, in many cases.

Lisa Cortes: Yes. I have great love for him, and tremendous empathy. I was really moved in interviewing Billy Porter, who declares how important for him, as a Black gay man, Little Richard. He's like, "He gave me permission to be my full self." Sometimes, the residual effect that we have on people, we might not be able to fully embrace it, but Little Richard is such a great example of the ripple effect of culture, of being transgressive, of introducing music, fashion, gender fluidity, in a very provincial time, in mid-1955. It's a different America.

Alison Stewart: As you point out in the film, that was the year that Emmett Till was murdered. There was real risk in being who he was.

Lisa Cortes: There's risk and there's boldness, that you are saying, "I am." That you are declaring your place, at a time when there is tremendous fragility to the Black body. That he's out there, touring through the South, causing mayhem and unleashing this energy. We've forgotten that about Little Richard. He became shut up. He became a comic foil. He became removed from the narrative of this great art form, when he is an important architect.

Alison Stewart: The name of the film is Little Richard: I am Everything. There are screenings today, then it opens wide and on-demand, April 21st. I've been speaking with its director, Lisa Cortes. Lisa, thank you so much for sharing your film with us.

Lisa Cortes: Thank you.

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