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Alison Stewart: This is All Of It. I'm Alison Stewart, live from the WNYC Studios in SoHo. Thank you so much for sharing part of your day with us. Hey, a quick programming note. Thursday morning, the Supreme Court will hear oral arguments in the case of Trump versus Anderson. The former president and his attorneys are challenging a Colorado Supreme Court ruling that prevents his name from appearing on the ballot in that state. You can listen to this rare live broadcast of the Supreme Court proceedings Thursday morning, starting at 10:00 AM right here on WNYC, or live stream it at wnyc.org. That is in the future. All this hour in the present, we're going to give some first-class love to secondhand items. Later on, we're going to talk about how to thrift for furniture, but we'll get this hour started with clothes.

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Alison Stewart: New York Fashion Week kicks off this Friday, and tonight there's a Walk Your Values fashion show featuring models, activists, and garment workers, all in secondhand clothes. All the proceeds will go to the organization Remake that builds itself as, "A nonprofit organization fighting for fair pay and climate justice in the clothing industry". Look, some thrift for the thrill of the hunt or to find something just really well made and also, because reusing clothing is good for the environment.

The online resale site ThredUp made the prediction based on sales that the secondhand global market will reach $350 billion by 2027, doubling in the next three years. How to thrift ethically and still have fun is the sweet spot for our next guest, the host of the Pre-Loved Podcast, writer Emily Stochl. She's joining us to discuss how to thrift efficiently and ethically. Welcome back to the show.

Emily Stochl: Thank you so much for having me.

Alison Stewart: What is a thrifted piece that you love, listeners? Why do you like to thrift? What is a thrifting tip for a newcomer? 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC is our number. You may call in and talk to us on air. You can also text to that number. Our social media is available as well @allofitwnyc. Maybe you have a thrift store you want to shout out anywhere, or maybe you're someone who likes to fix or mend secondhand clothes. Tell us about a project or shout your favorite tailor or cobbler in the city who helps you with your upcycling. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692.

Emily, that number is incredible. The idea that we're talking about billions of dollars in thrifting. What is your take on the explosion of thrifting in the past? You've been at this for a while. I want to say you are not a newcomer. Your podcast has been around for many years.

Emily Stochl: I am not a newcomer, but we love all newcomers to secondhand here. I think it's incredible to see the interest in secondhand just rising and rising.

Alison Stewart: When you talk about secondhand versus thrift and vintage, do you have personal definitions for each?

Emily Stochl: Oh, okay. This is why I use the word "pre-loved" because I love anything that has had a life before, and I'm reusing it and giving it a new purpose. Technically, something vintage is around 20 to 30 years or older, right? There is that little distinction. Then thrift is typically what we think of if you're going to a charity shop, if you're going to a thrift store, and you're finding something for a great deal. I use all of those different words, but that's why I personally love pre-loved because anything reused is great by me.

Alison Stewart: Also, the idea of sometimes when you see vintage, it might be a little more on the expensive end because it could be-

Emily Stochl: Sure.

Alison Stewart: -an old-designer piece where thrifting, it can be like, "Hey, fill your bag for $10 day."

Emily Stochl: Right. There is a huge range and a huge range of different small businesses operating within the space. The important thing is, is that we're all interested in reusing things that already are on this planet.

Alison Stewart: For a lot of things that you talk about on your podcast and on your social media, you talk about fashion, but you also talk about a lot about protecting people and protecting the planet. Part of the work you do is to spread issues around the garment industry. You post a lot about the FABRIC Act, which is proposed by our Senator, Kirsten Gillibrand. FABRIC stands for Fashioning, Accountability, and Building Real Institutional Change Act. Tell us a little bit more what the act calls for.

Emily Stochl: Yes. The proposed federal FABRIC Act actually builds on a bill that was passed in the state of California called the Garment Worker Protection Act. It chores up groundbreaking workplace protection for garment workers who produce here in the United States. The unfortunate reality is that wage theft does still occur here, right here at home in the US. It offers workplace protections for those workers. It also offers incentives to bring back some made-in-the-USA production. Vintage lovers will know you see that in tags. It's not as common anymore, but the federal FABRIC Act has some incentives to encourage responsible production here at home. Like you said, sponsored by New York's Senator, Kirsten Gillibrand, and something that we're really hoping to see passed at a federal level.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk about the Walk Your Values Fashion Show. Tell us a little bit more about this event.

Emily Stochl: Yes, I'm so excited. The event is happening tonight at the Delancey. It is all sold out.

Alison Stewart: That's good news.

Emily Stochl: It's great news. Very excited to kick off New York Fashion Week with this runway show that is really the kind of fashion that I would like to see in the world. The show features youth climate activists, models, garment makers. It's really a very mission-oriented runway show. Then, everyone is wearing entirely vintage pieces. The show has a bit of a ode to New York nightlife Studio 54 vibes, picture Halston on the dance floor type of thing. The really cool thing is that people will be wearing pieces that were originally from that era in the show. Sorry if you couldn't make it to this season, but follow Remake because I'm sure we'll be back for Fall Fashion Week as well. [chuckles]

Alison Stewart: Why is it important to you in the work that you do to talk about these issues?

Emily Stochl: It matters to me because I care about the people who make our clothes. To me, that is all interconnected. There is so much abuse that happens in the fast fashion system, which is where a vast majority of these clothings are made today. By choosing secondhand, I feel that I can remove myself from that exploitative system and instead, support small businesses, people who are curating this clothing that already exists. I'm doing good for both the planet and for people as well. Both those things matter to me a great deal. I'm sure to many of the listeners too.

Alison Stewart: My guest is Emily Stochl, Pre-Loved Podcast. You should check her out and on social media. We are talking about thrifting in 2024, how to have fun, and to do it ethically. Our phone lines are filling up. Let's take a few calls. Elizabeth from Park Slope. Hi, Elizabeth.

Elizabeth: Hi, how are you?

Alison Stewart: Doing great. You're on the air.

Elizabeth: Okay. I wanted to highlight a awesome thrift store here in Brooklyn. It's actually located in Brooklyn Heights at the Plymouth Church. It's called Underground Thrift Store. We are all volunteer-run thrift store. Our mission is to recycle and sell secondhand clothing, some household items, and some other surprises that you never know what people want to donate to raise funds for Plymouth Church, but especially for anti-human-trafficking efforts and organizations here in the city. We're open Sundays from 12:30 to 4:00. It's the only day we're open, September through June. We think ethically, it's great secondhand. It's also if you can raise money for much-needed efforts here in the city. It's fabulous.

Alison Stewart: Elizabeth, thank you for calling in. Let's talk to Marika, friend of the show, calling in from Brooklyn. Hi, Marika.

Marika: Hi. I'm calling to share that I've been hosting a clothing swap for 12 years. It happens every spring and every fall. The mailing list has grown. It's probably over 100 women on the list, and I just sent out an email and open the door, and everybody brings clothes, no schmattas. You don't even need to bring clothes. You can just come and take clothes. It's been a wonderful, wonderful experience, and it's really easy to do and then you don't have to go shopping.

Alison Stewart: All right. While I have Marika on the line really quick, so Marika is a cellist, a moth storyteller, played in the band in Hadestown on Broadway, has an incredible-- What are you doing next, Marika, musically, just real quick?

Marika: Right now, I'm in Taylor Mac, Bark of Millions at BAM this week.

Alison Stewart: Marika, I owe you a call, by the way. Marika, thanks for calling in. I didn't know you were going to call today. That's awesome.

Marika: I never have before. Thanks for having me talk.

Alison Stewart: All right. We are getting some really great comments. Somebody said, a text, "Pretty Little Things, a fab thrift shop in Bethel, Connecticut. Shannon, the owner, calls her plus-size section curvy girls." Love that. If you want to shout out a thrift store or your relationship with thrifting, we'd love to hear about it. 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. My guest is Emily Stochl. Her podcast is called the Pre-Loved Podcast.

I was following you on Instagram, and you had this great list at the end of the year that were your ins and outs for 2024. I wanted to go over a few of them. Actually, I DM'd you about one of them because I got very nervous I was doing something wrong. Let's talk about your ins. You say value over volume, not just for individuals, but for the whole damn system. Individually, what's example of value over volume?

Emily Stochl: Right, so I think that this means that I want the clothes that come into my closet to be something that I value and I love forever. I'm more concerned with that, the value, what it means to me than I am accumulating tons and tons of volume. It applies not just to us as people too, like I said, for the whole system. I think that the whole fashion industry could benefit from thinking about the way they produce in that way. Baking clothes that people are going to value and keep and cherish rather than focusing so much on cranking out large volumes.

Alison Stewart: While we're talking about value, what are some things people can look for in a garment to determine that it's well made?

Emily Stochl: Ooh, always check the seams. I think that's a good indicator that it's well made if it's got those sturdy seams. You always hear folks say things like, oh, they just don't make them like they used to and it's so true. Then I think the other thing is fabrication. I love natural fibers if I can find them. Things like cotton or wool that are purely those natural fibers. They're just meant to last longer than some of the textiles that are made today.

Alison Stewart: You had a recent podcast episode about finding gems and what was called even the most meh thrift store. What was one of the suggestions your guest made about, you walk in, you're like, oh, there's nothing here. Your guest was like, wait a minute.

Emily Stochl: Wait a minute. It just takes a little bit of imagination because I think that if you're used to a retail shopping experience, you are used to things being beautifully merchandised on the racks, on the mannequins, and the imagination is all done for you. In a thrift store, you're looking at all of the different items and you have to be the one to picture how would this look outside of the contact of this thrift store. How would it look styled in my wardrobe? I think that little creative exercise is good for us to do. It makes us better stylists. When you put that hat on, I think you will be surprised by the things you find in the rack that you might have passed over before.

Alison Stewart: Another thing on your in list for 2024, attainable buy goals. What do attainable buy goals look like?

Emily Stochl: I think that sometimes we start the new year and we want to make resolutions. A lot of people will say, I want to buy less this year. I want to do a low buy. I want to do a no-buy. I think that's so wonderful but I do think that sometimes when we set up goals, we set rules for ourselves that can be hard to achieve and then we maybe stumble and we're like, I failed. I have to give up the resolution.

I want people to set goals that feel attainable to them. At Remake, we talk a lot about trying to do three months of no new clothes. No new clothes to you can mean checking out secondhand shopping, trying to just make that transition to buying less that was produced new. I think that's a way to approach sustainability that feels attainable to you. If you can stick with it, it's going to be sustainable for you in the sense that you can do it for a long time.

Alison Stewart: I loved one of the things you do. You mentioned that you have a thrift list and you create it from photos, but you don't include the photos when you explain your photo thrift list MO.

Emily Stochl: Something that I like to do is I found a lot of people do Pinterest mood boards and things like that. I think that's wonderful for collecting inspiration, but sometimes if I'm looking at a photo, I get too particular about, oh, I want to recreate their outfit. It goes back to what my guest was saying about sometimes it just takes a little imagination. Maybe you don't find the sweater that's exactly the same color that the girl in the photo has, but it's still a very nice sweater. Instead, I will write out just in the notes app on my phone what I'm looking for and try to describe what it is that I'm looking for. Maybe I want a nice sweater made of wool and it's going to be a solid color, but it still leaves a little bit open for interpretation because the reality is when you walk into a secondhand store you never know what you're going to find.

Alison Stewart: Right. So you don't write down. I'm going to get this Brooks Brothers sweater from 1962, but that was maybe the inspiration.

Emily Stochl: Exactly. You know what? Manifestation. Maybe I will find that incredible Brooks Brothers sweater but just being open to the possibility of what you might find.

Alison Stewart: Let's take a call. Let's talk to Francine from Clifton, New Jersey. Hi, Francine, thanks for calling in.

Francine: Hi. One, I am now 54 years old. I started thrifting when I was 15 and it was because the church behind Stuyvesant had a thrift shop and I discovered shop wall, really good wall and I have not gone back since. The downside of thrifting and people need to know this is I had a fire in my house and my house burnt down. The pieces that I love, I can't replace.

Alison Stewart: Ah, that's true. When you find a gem, it's one of a kind. That's the up and the downside. I'll take it for the upside. I'm sorry that you had the fire by the way, I should say that. Didn't want to put that on the bat. I didn't want to overlook that. My guest is Emily Stochl. We are talking about thrifting 2024. We'll take more of your calls after a quick break. This is All Of It.

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Alison Stewart: You are listening to All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest in studio is Emily Stochl, the host of the Pre-Loved Podcast. We're talking about how to thrift ethically but also still have a really good time. We're getting some great texts. A post from Instagram says, "I'm loving the segment about pre-loved items. We'd like to shout out Mongers Market, a massive multi-seller thrift and vintage market in Bridgeport, Connecticut. A great mix of housewares, furniture, clothes, and industrial salvage. Open Sundays only."

Someone is shouting out GoodFolk Vintage in Atlantic Highlands, New Jersey, highly curated, great owner. Awesome consignment shop in Caldwell, New Jersey, Willing Hearts, all volunteers run by Rotary Club clothing and household items. Merchandise changes every 30 days. "This one is a shout-out to Witch Bitch Thrift in New Haven, Connecticut, queer owned and they do occasional giveaways on their socials. It's gender-free and not separated by women's and men's, et cetera. Plus your guest voice is so nice."

There you go, Emily. Then this text gets us to something else that was on your list of ins for 2024. Someone texted, "I started collecting dead umbrellas to sow into tote bags. On your list, it says, address your to-mend pile, invest in your local clothing economy, cobbler, tailor, et cetera. Can you share a tailoring success story with us?

Emily Stochl: Ooh, I love this. Something that I'm loving, as guests are calling in is they're talking about people in their community who have these thrift shops that they love. That's what I meant by this ins list. There are also awesome small businesses who repair things in your local community. Tailors who can make stuff perfectly fit to you. Cobblers who can fix up your shoes. I have a wonderful tailor back home who is someone that is a friend of the vintage shop and she's who I trust to take everything to and repair the sleeves on a coat that I have worn for so many years and want to keep going. All of those beautiful things. I highly recommend you find that great person in your community too.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Wendy from Springfield, New Jersey. Hi, Wendy.

Wendy: Hi. I just want to shout out Westfield Service League in Westfield, New Jersey. The money goes to the Westfield residence. It's a nonprofit. They put in grants so they give to the Y homeless. You can get evening gowns for $30, there're household items, blouses, and sweaters. I just also want to say that I, at one point, was walking in New York, needed a scarf, didn't have one, went in to the Garment District. I was in the Garment District, I got them to cut me a yard of beautiful royal blue material, but it had raw edges. I came back home and I got the seamstress to finish it so I got my own scarf.

Alison Stewart: There you go, Wendy. Good tip. Carol from Montclair, New Jersey. Hi, Carol.

Carol: Hi. I wanted to shout out Toni's Closet in Montclair. It's a great thrift store and it supports Toni's Kitchen, which is a feeding program here in Montclair. I'm a volunteer there. It's all volunteer-run. They have a great selection of clothing and housewares and decor and really we get these amazing donations of items. We have a designer section of clothes, which are beautiful pieces, often designer or very high-end and [inaudible 00:18:33].

Alison Stewart: Oh, [unintelligible 00:18:35] into her phone. Carol, thank you for calling in. I want to get to some of the things on your out-for-2024 list, clothing take-back programs. This seems like a good idea on the surface. Bring back old jeans, get new ones, recycle leggings, get new ones. What's the downside? Where's the word in the fine print do I need to read more carefully?

Emily Stochl: Right. It is a really fine print thing. These clothing takeback initiatives, a lot of them were started by fast fashion brands and they might put a little thing that basically looks like a trash can out in front of the store. It's green or something like that. It invites you to put something that you don't want anymore into the bin and then maybe you get a discount to buy something new. That's the thing that gives me a little pause. Why are we incentivizing the buying something new? This is supposed to be about reusing what's old.

The unfortunate reality is that a lot of the items that end up in those take-back programs that are sponsored by big fast fashion brands, unfortunately, many end up destroyed, landfilled, or exported to countries in the global south where communities there may try to resell them, but because there is so much clothing and some of it is just of not very good quality, it ends up in those local landfills as well.

What I encourage people to do instead of something like that where there is that risk that that could happen in the piece, it's not what anyone wants to happen, is to try to keep it in these local economies like the folks who are calling in on the show and talking about a church-run thrift store or their local second-hand industry, and that way you can make sure that that item is going to someone in your community who needs it, who wants it, rather than some of these things that we maybe don't know exactly where the piece is going to end up.

Alison Stewart: Also on your list, dupe obsession. What's a dupe obsession and what's a better way to focus your time?

Emily Stochl: Dupes is an internet culture term that's short for duplicates. This is the idea that a lot of fast fashion designers will try to make duplicates of other pieces, and so they'll copy the design and sell it for cheaper prices. Again, let's take it back to that values over volumes idea again, is that really what we value or are we really just concerned about consuming, consuming, consuming? I think the best dupes, if you really want to go that direction, is to look at vintage pieces because the reality is, is that a lot of what is created new these days is meant to look like something that is from the past anyway.

Alison Stewart: A text, "Shout out to my wife's business, Hipstitch Academy, formerly in Hoboken, now online in Harpersfield, New York. She fixes clothing and helps teach the art of sewing." We have from Twix, "We'd love to give a shout-out to Wilton Connecticut's biannual tag sale called Minks to Sinks. We collect more than 100,000 donated consigned goods each sale, and all proceeds go to a fantastic not-for-profit called Family & Children's Agency of Norwalk, Connecticut."

Someone says, "Alison, please mention the Sold By the Pound Goodwill in Long Island City. It's amazing. It's a little crazy with huge trials of clothes, but I have found many goodies with the lowest prices." Let's take a few more calls. Marie is calling in from Westchester. Hi, Marie.

Marie: Hi. I just wanted to shout out two of my favorite places in Southern Westchester County. The first is Tony's Expert Shoe Repair in Ossining. He fixed my favorite pair of leather boots for very cheap and kept me from throwing them away. The second is Retake-Remake in Peekskill, which is super cool. They're a reuse and donation store that sells secondhand craft supplies including fabric for people who want to make their own clothes.

Alison Stewart: Thank you so much for calling in. Let's talk to Emmy from Brooklyn. Hi, Emmy.

Emmy: Hi. Can you hear me?

Alison Stewart: Yes, you're on the air.

Emmy: Hi. I just wanted to call out my favorite vintage store in Brooklyn, which is called Vogue Vintage on Grand Ave near Withers Street, and it's just expertly curated. The owner is really helpful. She'll help you find the perfect pair of jeans or the leather jacket you've been looking for for years.

Alison Stewart: Emmy, thank you so much for calling in. We are getting some questions, and I don't know if you have the answer to this, or if you've thought about this or had guessed about this. People asking about, "Well, if I'm going to places like Goodwill and I'm buying clothes, am I taking clothes away from people who maybe can't afford to go someplace else?"

Emily Stochl: Yes, great question. I think the thing that I would want listeners to know is that the unfortunate reality is there is way too much clothing on this planet, way too much clothing that has been produced and is in circulation than can ever go around. That's where I mentioned the problem that is happening of clothing that's being exported to other countries where, again, it's tried to resell, but because so much of it is coming into the secondhand system, it can't be resold and ends up in landfills. What I always tell folks is that the best thing we can really be doing is not adding any new clothing into that system and reusing everything that is in circulation. Don't worry, there is way more than needs to go around.

Alison Stewart: I'm going to ask you about thrifting and the culture each year, there's something in the thrifting zeitgeist. You made a prediction that it's going to be capes. The capes are making a comeback.

Emily Stochl: I think this one would be very fun. I think it can be done in a really chic way and it's very cozy, and so keep an eye out for vintage capes. I think you might see a resurgence in them.

Alison Stewart: One of your ins we didn't get to, it's the last thing I want to talk about is every garment having its own loving backstory. Why is that important to you this year?

Emily Stochl: Oh, I just love these moments. This past weekend, I was at the Manhattan Vintage Show, a wonderful vintage show here in New York, and vendors were telling me all of these wonderful stories about, "Oh, this is the woman who owned this piece before." I just love that special connection that we can make to clothing. I think that if we did that with our clothes more, we would waste less. I really want every piece in my closet to have a little story. Maybe it's the story of where it came from before, maybe it's the story that I'm going to imprint on that clothing, but I think that that really matters.

Alison Stewart: All right. Tell me the story of something you're wearing today. We'll have a thrift-off. I wore all my thrifted clothes. Three-quarters of what I'm wearing is thrifted today.

Emily Stochl: Amazing. I love it. I'm wearing a pair of 1970s plaid vintage trousers, a vintage graphic T-shirt, and vest. Then this is an upcycled charm necklace. It's made from all different kinds of charms that a maker has taken and added them all together onto a necklace chain. I have this one-of-a-kind charm piece for myself.

Alison Stewart: Love hearing your stories. You should definitely check out Emily's podcast, Pre-Loved Podcast. Also, follow her on your socials. Where can people find you?

Emily Stochl: Yes, you can find me across the internet as @emilymstochl. Thanks for listening.

Alison Stewart: Thanks to everybody who called in with suggestions and thanks to everybody who texted as well. Happy thrifting.

 

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