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Alison Stewart: This is All Of It. I'm Alison Stewart, live from the WNYC Studios in SoHo. Thank you for sharing part of your day with us. Coming up on the show today, we're going to talk about the new exhibit at MoMA, Picasso in Fontainebleau. We'll also discuss the Montclair Film Festival, which is going on right now. Some great films are going to be screening there, and while we're on the topic of films, let's hear about the latest from David Hemingson and Alexander Payne.

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Three very different people at different points in their lives are stuck together at a boarding school over Christmas break in 1970. The new film, The Holdovers, stars Paul Giamatti as a cantankerous career history teacher at a boarding school. Here's a scene from early in the film. He's just handed out the final semester exams, which feature a lot of D's and F's, and at least one generous F+.

Paul Hunham: "I can tell by your faces that many of you are shocked at the outcome. I, on the other hand, am not because I have had the misfortune of teaching you this semester, and even with my ocular limitations, I witnessed firsthand your glazed, uncomprehending expressions."

Pupil: "Sir, I don't understand."

Paul Hunham: "That's glaringly apparent."

Pupil: "No. Sir, I can’t fail this class!”

Paul Hunham: “Oh, don’t sell yourself short, Mr. Kountze. I truly believe that you can.”

Pupil: "I'm supposed to go to Cornell."

Paul Hunham: "Unlikely."

Alison Stewart: This prickly professor must oversee a student with nowhere else to go. First, the break, a lanky, bright, and rebellious kid whose mother and stepfather ditch him at the last minute. Also, there's the school's cook whose son had been a student at the school but recently died in the Vietnam War. Unlike his connected and privileged schoolmates, this Black young man went to combat.

To make The Holdovers authentic to the time and place, Payne employed period lenses, miking styles, and lots of dissolves, like you'd see in your favorite '70s movies, and filmed in part at Deerfield Academy, where he found his young lead. The Holdovers comes out in select theaters this Friday, and opens nationwide on November 10th. It's directed by Alexander Payne, who joins me now. Hi, Alexander.

Alexander Payne: Hello. Very nice to be here. Good morning.

Alison Stewart: Good morning, good afternoon, and written by David Hemingson, who is with us as well. Hi, David.

David Hemingson: Hey, how are you?

Alison Stewart: I'm good, thank you. It's a rare time, Alexander, when you are directing a film that you didn't write solo, why was this the film you wanted to make? What was it about this script?

Alexander Payne: I may not have written a screenplay, but I was involved in its conception. I had had the idea for about a dozen years and hadn't done anything with it. Then I read a pilot script that Mr. Hemingson had written, and I thought he would be the right writer for this idea, kind of get it up on it in no small part, because he had had the life experience I had not had, which is at a Eastern boarding school. I got in touch with him, and we conceived it together, and then he very generously wrote this screenplay.

David Hemingson: Right hand of you, sir.

Alison Stewart: [chuckles] Sir, Mister, okay, we're going to be very formal today. David, when you're working with a new collaborator, what is your process for working with someone?

David Hemingson: Well, it's interesting because I'd long been a fan of Alexander's work, so to get this call, I'd written the pilot, and I wouldn't say forgotten about it but any stretch of the imagination, but I'd didn't really realize he'd gotten ahold of it. When he did, I was surprised and delighted and slightly terrified because he is a great writer.

I think the key thing in working with Alexander specifically are really any collaborators who can understand what the cut and thrust of their style is. Like what is an Alexander Payne movie, and I was very fortunate, and then I pretty much saturated myself in his work before I ever met him.

It's trying to understand where the artist is coming from as much as possible, and then to figure out what my proclivities and strengths are, and then to see what the intersection of that Venn diagram is, like where do we intersect? I've been really lucky in many respects, but especially in this regard, Alexander and I have a very similar sensibility. I wouldn't say easy, but it was certainly a joy and a thorough going pleasure to plumb his mind and figure out where we both wanted to go with it.

Alison Stewart: Alexander, David's original script was set in 1980. This film takes place in 1970. Why was that change important to the story you wanted to tell?

Alexander Payne: It's funny you mentioned that. I have no memory of what year his pilot was set in, so thanks for reminding me. Well, for practical reasons, we knew it couldn't be a contemporary story because it's at an all-boys prep school, and they really don't exist anymore. All those boarding schools have gone co-ed. Then it's a matter of thinking, when could we set this screenplay? I was a history student in college. I've long wanted to make a period film, and we thought, what about the 1950s? No, that's more like Dead Poets Society territory, '60s, '70s. Then somehow I think Hemingson said, "What about 1970?" That felt groovy to me.

Not only it was an evocative time period both for my early childhood memories, and my early childhood memories, too, of movies. I turned 9 in 1970, 10 in 1971, but it also gave the screenwriter, I think, some good material to work with the political winds blowing through that period, namely, the Vietnam War. That became an element that just giving him some good raw material, gave him something to work with, and something that affects all three characters.

Alison Stewart: Yes, David, there are stakes for these young men because of the war, and Paul Giamatti's character is very much aware of privilege, and what privilege allows for some people and not for others. He has a sort of interesting moral compass. How would you describe his definition of morality?

David Hemingson: I don't think it would be tied to any particular, well, I shouldn't really say that since it's a Judeo-Christian morality, but he is a classicist in the true sense of the word. He is very much into a the stoic philosophy, and like Marcus Aurelius meditations, that kind of thing. His idea of morality, I think, it goes hand in hand with integrity. I think he believes that truth is paramount. I think he believes in the stoic ideal of staring down difficulty and powering through it.

I think for him it's about these almost heroic ideals of truth and justice and equity and hard work. I think that's the constellation of ideas that he embraces and elevates in his own life. Of course, none of us are perfect, and we learn over the course of the film that he is not perfect for sure. I do think a man's reach must exceed his grasp or what's a heaven for. I think he's trying for an ideal.

Alexander Payne: If I can interject something right here, which is that I only after making the movie, that I see a resemblance to a movie I had made, boy, 25 years ago, Election, where Matthew Broderick plays a teacher, and a similarity between both movies as that at the beginning of each film, the teacher in question espouses very high-minded ideals, and by the end of the film violates those very same ideals for a purpose, either noble or ignoble.

David Hemingson: It's true.

Alison Stewart: We won't tell people which it is in this case. The name of the film is The Holdovers. My guests are director Alexander Payne and writer David Hemingson. Paul Giamatti stars as Paul Hunham, this history teacher with dreams of publishing. The kids tease him though, and it was alluded to in that clip about having a wall eye, or they talk behind his back about it. How did you work with Paul, Alexander, about how he should approach eye lines and the way he looked at his fellow actors?

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Alexander Payne: That's a funny question. I would prefer not to divulge how his wonky eye was achieved, but gosh, I don't know how to answer that. There was really no difference at how he looked at others, and I don't want to say more because I don't want to give away how we achieved the wonky eye.

Alison Stewart: What were your conversations like with Paul Giamatti about this character's physicality, because he has a very particular trudge when he walks.

Alexander Payne: Yes. I got to tell you something. When working with an actor, like Paul Giamatti, it's like working with Lawrence Olivier or Ralph Richardson or Meryl Streep, or someone like that, whom you don't worry about the performance. As the director, I'm just delighted to give him the part and see what he's going to do with it, and who the character is he's going to present me basically. He as a product himself of that world. He went to Choate. He went to Yale. His dad- [crosstalk]

Alison Stewart: His Dad was president of Yale.

Alexander Payne: -president of Yale, big muckety muck. He just told me very early on, "I know how to play this guy because I knew this guy, and I knew a lot of guys with him." Specifically with physicality, he said, for some reason, "I think he should have a mustache," so he grew out his mustache. I'd never imagined the man with a mustache, but there you have it. "He should have a comb-over," so he grew his hair out in a certain way. Then whatever he did with his walk, his trudge, his hangdog bearing was all his that we never really discussed. I just witnessed it.

Alison Stewart: David, the film explores assumptions we make about each other and how we get past those assumptions that we make about each other. What do Paul, the teacher, and Angus, this young, rebellious, somewhat troubled student, but he is a Peter, as my dad used to say, what do they assume about each other?

David Hemingson: I think we present a public face to the world. We all do. I think Paul has constructed an identity. I think he's partially his own emotional landscape and some of his proclivities, but he's comfortable being the tough professor. I think that he knows that he's reviled by some of the students. I wouldn't say he wears it as a badge of honor, but he's aware of that. I think Angus assumes that that's all there is to him and that there's no human heart. Hard candy shell, chewy caramel center. That there's no chewy caramel center to that Tootsie Pop.

I think that Paul looks at Angus and sees him. The thing is Angus is very bright, but he constantly gets in his own way. He pokes the hornet's nest both with his fellow students and occasionally with Paul. He probably sees him as one of these snot-nose kids, these privileged kids. I think the journey of the film is the two of them and Mary peeling the onion and peeling away these layers, and dropping their armor and discovering who they really are. It's a love story. The movie is a love story, in my opinion.

Alison Stewart: Angus is played by Dominic Sessa in his first role, and recent graduate of Deerfield Academy in Massachusetts, a place where you filmed in part. Alexander, how did you find this young man, and then what is something you enjoy about working with a first-time actor or someone first time in film?

Alexander Payne: Finding him was a minor miracle. I had gone through this 25 years ago when casting Election. When looking for high school students and wanting some great degree of authenticity, you find that professional actor kids are much too polished, and then so you go, "Well, let me find non-professional actor kids, kids aspiring to be actors, or even non-actors who maybe have a great essence that you can bring out in the film."

The professional actors can do it, but they're too polished. The other ones maybe have the essence, but you worry about their ability to sustain a performance, so it just takes time. It just takes time to find those kids. In this case, the New York-based casting director, Susan Shopmaker, and her staff looked at about 800 submissions-

Alison Stewart: Wow.

Alexander Payne: -from around the English-speaking world. We found some of the other parts but not the lead. Finally, it was just next up on our list to contact the schools where we actually were going to be shooting, called the drama teacher, and see who was knocking around there, even just as a courtesy to get the schools involved, and there he was. As you point out, he was a senior at Deerfield being cast to play junior at Deerfield. He was a star in the drama club there and in school plays, but had never been in front of a camera. Through about five, six, seven auditions, we just determined that he's the one.

Then when we started shooting this fully-formed extremely talented film actor, not just actor but film actor emerged, and I'd never seen that before. I'd had some very good actors in their teens before, Reese Witherspoon and Shailene Woodley, for example, but they already had quite a bit of experience, and they were clearly going places. This case is really unusual.

Alison Stewart: Well, let's listen to a clip from the film, The Holdovers, of Angus, who we just talked about, the actor, Dominic Sessa plays him and Paul. They are in a car together during a-- We're going to call it a field trip, "field trip" to Boston. After about a week of getting to know each other and having gotten on each other's nerves, Angus speaks first.

Angus Tully: "No wonder you're afraid of women."

Paul Hunham: "I am not afraid of women. Jesus."

Angus Tully: "Sorry. I shouldn't have said anything. Dr. Gertler says I don't always give consideration to my audience."

Paul Hunham: "Ah, and who is Dr. Gertler?"

Angus Tully: "My shrink."

Paul Hunham: "Has Dr. Gertler ever tried a good swift kick in the ass?"

Angus Tully: "Okay. All right. Now your turn. Go ahead. Tell me something about me. Something negative."

Paul Hunham: "Something negative about you?"

Angus Tully: "Sure. Just one thing."

Paul Hunham: "Just one."

Alison Stewart: That is from the film, The Holdovers. I'm speaking with its writer, David Hemingson, and its director, Alexander Payne. Alexander, I alluded to this, the way the film looks. From the minute it starts, you are taken back in time, and you're like, "Am I watching The Graduate? Am I watching The Way We Were?" Just from even the title cards. Tell us a little bit about how modern technology helped you achieve something that looks like it was made in 1969.

Alexander Payne: Thanks, Alison. For some reason, I don't really remember when or how, but when we had the screenplay in hand and the time came to direct it, I thought it would be interesting not only to have a period film set in 1970, but to pull off the trick that the movie look and sound as though it had been made in 1970. For example, when you see the movie in the theaters, it's in mono, I stopped just short of a hissy optical track like they had in those days, but it is in mono. For the look, you suggest it was period lenses, which a lot of filmmakers use quite frankly to get a softer, cozier image with the very fine quality of digital photography.

More than that, it's how we treated the image afterwards, adding filmic effects, convincing filmic effects to make it look like a version of a 35-millimeter film shot in 1970. Equally important, if not more important, is what is being shot. To that degree, the production designer and I had a very strong aesthetic about making it look as found and banal and grimy as if we had been making a low-budget film in 1970. We never wanted the production design to call it tension to itself as it often does in period films.

Alison Stewart: David, I want to bring in a little bit about Mary's character. Mary is a cook at the school. She takes great pride in the work she does, and she's very specific about how much paprika should go into [laughs] certain dishes. She's an interesting character because she does not fit any stereotype. I really appreciated that, especially a stereotype of a Black woman at that time. How would you describe her relationship with Paul, the teacher?

David Hemingson: Again, we talked about the face we present to the world, and I think that it's weird. I was reflecting back upon their first encounter when Paul walks in and says, "Hello, Mary." I think, they're actually, I wouldn't say sympathetic toward each other, but there's a degree of understanding. Paul had taught her son Curtis, and Paul is a fixture at the school. She's been at the school for a long time. I think she sees him as probably a very bright teacher, probably as something of an outcast because she's keenly aware of the politics at the school.

I think that she senses his loneliness and sees some of her own loneliness reflected in it. Initially, as I was re-watching it, I'm like, "Da'Vine is such a brilliant actress." She's so brilliant, and she does so much with just looks and pauses. I think that she evaluates him and gets his number pretty early, and then is gradually surprised at the degree of emotion that's sleeping inside him.

Alison Stewart: That actor is Da'Vine Joy Randolph. I think a lot of people will recognize her from Only Murders in the Building. She's been playing the cop.

Alexander Payne: And Dolemite Is My Name.

Alison Stewart: And Dolemite Is My Name.

David Hemingson: Yes, she's incredible in that picture. She's really a wonderful actress.

Alison Stewart: Alexander, what do you like about making period pieces?

Alexander Payne: Here's what I like. It was my first one, and I had a joy which I had not anticipated, which was that I-- I'm a great lover of 1970s American films, and when I was on the set, I could actually pretend that I was in 1970 making a film like those directors I so admire. As I said to you before, we're not making a period film. We're making a contemporary film that happens to be set in 1970.

I think a lot about time traveling like, oh, how fun it would be to go back in time and why can't we do that? Why can't I go back to first-century Rome for just like 10 minutes and check that out? In filmmaking, I wish I could have been a comedy director in the 1920s, and then a features director in 1970s. I got to pretend I was that for a minute. That's what I liked. Thanks for asking.

Alison Stewart: The name of the film is The Holdovers. It is in select New York theaters this Friday. We can see it around here. Nationwide, November 10th. My guests have been writer David Hemingson and director Alexander Payne. Thank you for the time.

Alexander Payne: Thanks very much. Appreciate it.

David Hemingson: Thank you.

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